Zone1 Which came first, Christianity or Judaism?

[BreezeWood]

breezie, OPEN YOUR "MIND"

slavery is enshrined in the c-bible among many other disparities, the desert religions -

you are the one trapped in the desert, free yourself nothing is worse than being a sinner.

 

[TruthNotBS]

Actually all Israel has a share of the world to come. Where is that predicated on being "righteous"?

That's the problem with your religion. The idea that every Jew will inherit the world to come, irrespective of their character or relationship with God.

 

[AsherN]

That's the problem with your religion. The idea that every Jew will inherit the world to come, irrespective of their character or relationship with God.

It;s actually the idea that everybody will inherit the world to come if they are good. As opposed to your religion who dooms the majority of humanity to Hell because they don't accept your religion.

 

[BreezeWood]

It;s actually the idea that everybody will inherit the world to come if they are good. As opposed to your religion who dooms the majority of humanity to Hell because they don't accept your religion.

sad for them, the desert religions the obvious inaccuracies than the corrections for those to be made heavenly - their erstwhile yet illusive goal.

 

[rosends]

That's the problem with your religion. The idea that every Jew will inherit the world to come, irrespective of their character or relationship with God.

we don't see it as a problem and your opinion of it as such is meaningless.

 

[TruthNotBS]

we don't see it as a problem and your opinion of it as such is meaningless.

Every Jew is raised from the dead and has a place in the Garden of Eden, while most non-Jews, with a few exceptions, are risen from the dead. That's an incomplete, narcissistic religion.

 

[rosends]

Every Jew is raised from the dead and has a place in the Garden of Eden, while most non-Jews, with a few exceptions, are risen from the dead. That's an incomplete, narcissistic religion.

What you wrote makes no sense -- first, you are conflating the resurrection of the dead with "the next world" and you might want to spend some time studying the complex area of Jewish eschatology. Then you claim that a religion which says that a small group does not get the same level of heavenly reward is "incomplete" and "narcissistic." For you, then, the only complete religion would be one in which Hitler is resurrected and is in the Garden of Eden? How is saying that Hitler doesn't deserve that "narcissistic"?

 

[TruthNotBS]

What you wrote makes no sense -- first, you are conflating the resurrection of the dead with "the next world" and you might want to spend some time studying the complex area of Jewish eschatology. Then you claim that a religion which says that a small group does not get the same level of heavenly reward is "incomplete" and "narcissistic." For you, then, the only complete religion would be one in which Hitler is resurrected and is in the Garden of Eden? How is saying that Hitler doesn't deserve that "narcissistic"?

Based upon what Orthodox Jews have told me, only Jews and very few non-Jews will rise from the dead. The world to come is inhabited by Jews, people who are born Jewish. That''s just absurd.

 

[rosends]

Based upon what Orthodox Jews have told me, only Jews and very few non-Jews will rise from the dead. The world to come is inhabited by Jews, people who are born Jewish. That''s just absurd.

Again, you are confusing a resurrection with existence in the world to come, but either way, it isn't what you have been told

Does Techiyat Hameisim, resurrection, apply to Non-Jews as well?

Will righteous non-jews also partake in Techiyat Hameisim, resurrection? Will they be brought back to life in the time of the Mashiach? Will Noach? Abraham? Malki-Tzedek? Shem? etc.

judaism.stackexchange.com

 

[irosie91]

Based upon what Orthodox Jews have told me, only Jews and very few non-Jews will rise from the dead. The world to come is inhabited by Jews, people who are born Jewish. That''s just absurd.

ABSURD---that you claim that jews learned in Judaism both waste their time and
violate ethics against proselytizing "explaining" things to you <<< THAT IS ABSURD

 

[TruthNotBS]

ABSURD---that you claim that jews learned in Judaism both waste their time and
violate ethics against proselytizing "explaining" things to you <<< THAT IS ABSURD

All of the Jews inherit eternal life, even David Berkowitz the "Son of Sam" serial killer, but no not the non-Jews, they don't even leave their graves. They go back to the dust.

Your religion is ethnocentric gobbledygook.

 

[rosends]

but no not the non-Jews, they don't even leave their graves.

interesting how you assert that even after I gave you a link to a discussion with sources that says otherwise.

 

[TruthNotBS]

Again, you are confusing a resurrection with existence in the world to come, but either way, it isn't what you have been told

Does Techiyat Hameisim, resurrection, apply to Non-Jews as well?

Will righteous non-jews also partake in Techiyat Hameisim, resurrection? Will they be brought back to life in the time of the Mashiach? Will Noach? Abraham? Malki-Tzedek? Shem? etc.

judaism.stackexchange.com

I do not believe there are clear sources indicating that non-Jews will be resurrected (but see this other answer and comments below)
MyJewishLearning indeed writes

It is not entirely clear whether only Jews, or all people, are expected to be resurrected at this time.

and R Naftali Silberberg at chabad.org writes only about Jews

Every Jewish soul that ever lived will be resurrected.

(see also here from the same author)
There is a well-known Rambam (MT Hilchot Tshuva 3:5) that

the righteous among the nations of the world have a share in the World to Come

but the World to Come can refer to the spiritual after-life, beyond the era of resurrection.

Maybe the good goyim will rise from the dead and will be like the t-shirts of the Jews:

Righteous non-Jews also earn a place in the world to come1. But their experience there would be unlike our own 2.

They’ll serve a supplementary and subservient role there, though, like clothing to a body 3. As that is all they could ever hope for, given the phenomena we’d cited above 4.

Chapter 4:7 Israel and the Other Nations

Derech Hashem - The Way of G-d 2:4:7 Righteous non-Jews also earn a place in the world to come1. But their experience there would be unlike our own 2.

torah.org

Righteous Gentiles will be slaves to Jews forever. A goy t-shirt.

 

[rosends]

I do not believe there are clear sources indicating that non-Jews will be resurrected (but see this other answer and comments below)
MyJewishLearning indeed writes

and R Naftali Silberberg at chabad.org writes only about Jews

(see also here from the same author)
There is a well-known Rambam (MT Hilchot Tshuva 3:5) that

but the World to Come can refer to the spiritual after-life, beyond the era of resurrection.

Maybe the good goyim will rise from the dead and will be like the t-shirts of the Jews:

Righteous non-Jews also earn a place in the world to come1. But their experience there would be unlike our own 2.

They’ll serve a supplementary and subservient role there, though, like clothing to a body 3. As that is all they could ever hope for, given the phenomena we’d cited above 4.

Chapter 4:7 Israel and the Other Nations

Derech Hashem - The Way of G-d 2:4:7 Righteous non-Jews also earn a place in the world to come1. But their experience there would be unlike our own 2.

torah.org

Righteous Gentiles will be slaves to Jews forever. A goy t-shirt.

ah, so you take the opinions that you want and ignore the others and then shift the eschatological argument not to resurrection but to the role of people in the future. Judaism does teach that non-Jews will want to work with Jews as a way to get closer to God.

For more on that, see here

The Gentiles on the Time of Moshiach

www.chabadnj.org

feel free to ignore the parts which undercut your position and claims.

 

[Lisa558]

All of the Jews inherit eternal life, even David Berkowitz the "Son of Sam" serial killer, but no not the non-Jews, they don't even leave their graves. They go back to the dust.

Your religion is ethnocentric gobbledygook.

Except that’s not true. That’s just your disdain for Jews talking.

YOUR religion, on the other hand, insists that people must believe that a man who lived 2000 years ago is a deity, or they go to hell. What an intolerant attitude toward other people’s beliefs.

 

[TruthNotBS]

Except that’s not true. That’s just your disdain for Jews talking.

YOUR religion, on the other hand, insists that people must believe that a man who lived 2000 years ago is a deity, or they go to hell. What an intolerant attitude toward other people’s beliefs.

There are Christians that believe that, but the biblical reality is that Yeshua Ha'Mashiach, is the second Adam. Without him, both the tzadikim and the reshaim, return to the dust without recourse. YHWH created the ancient nation of Israel, to create a holy place, free of child sacrifice and idolatry, fitting for the location of the incarnation of the heavenly prince of Israel, a.k.a. Sar Gadol (Daniel 12:1), the Archangel Mika'El. His Name in heaven is a question: Who Is Like God? - Rabbinic Jews would answer that "No One Is Like G-d". But that's not the answer. The answer is "You Are Like God" to Israel (to Israel in heaven and on earth, and to all of humanity, The Sar Gadol/High Prince of Heaven, is like God/Mika'El). The Savior and True Messiah.

He is the resurrection and the life. His Name related to his earthly mission and incarnation is Yehoshua/Yeshua (the Salvation of YHWH). Joshua/Yehoshua = "Jesus" (English). Snakes don't talk. Many Orthodox rabbis (especially the Jewish anti-missionaries like Tovia Singer and others) are reading the Hebrew Bible, in a literal fashion without the wisdom of Messiah, so they insist that there was a talking snake in the garden of Eden and the world is just six thousands years old.

The Exodus was historical, but much of it has a spiritual component.

• Peshat (פְּשָׁט‎) – "surface" ("straight") or the literal (direct) meaning.[2]
• Remez (רֶמֶז‎) – "hints" or the deep (allegoric: hidden or symbolic) meaning beyond just the literal sense. In the version of the New Zohar, Re'iah.
• Derash (דְּרַשׁ‎) – from Hebrew darash: "inquire" ("seek") – the comparative (midrashic) meaning, as given through similar occurrences.
• Sod (סוֹד‎) (pronounced with a long O as in 'lore') – "secret" ("mystery") or the esoteric/mystical meaning, as given through inspiration or revelation.

GARDEN/PRDS.

Joshua, who takes the leadership of the community after the death of Moses, leads the "mixed multitude" into the promised land of milk and honey (The Garden of Eden = Eternal Life = Salvation).

Caleb, Joshua's right-hand man, was a convert or his father converted to the faith of Moses.

The purpose of Israel is to deliver the second Adam. Due to the failure of the first Adam, humanity was consigned to corruption and death. Thanks to the success of the second Adam, Mashiach, humanity is resurrection from the dust. Everyone will have their day in court. If with emunah, you declare your allegiance to Mashiach, the Son of Hashem, you will be filled with His Holy Spirit/Ruach Ha'Kodesh and empowered to keep His Torah. Mashiach never sinned, He kept YHWH's Torah, perfectly. He lived a sinless life, so legally death had no authority over Him. The grave spit Him out (resurrection). He is now the New Head of humanity. A Jewish man, named Yehoshua ben Yoseph. He is like God to humanity. Mika'El, The Archangel, the METATRON.

MEṬAṬRON - JewishEncyclopedia.com

Complete contents the 1906 Jewish Encyclopedia.

www.jewishencyclopedia.com

Worshiping YHWH, The Heavenly Father, and His Son, is not idolatry. Whoever tells you that you can't be a disciple of Yehoshua the Messiah, and remain Jewish, is lying to you. Christianity was originally Jewish and Torah observant. YHWH had a reason for allowing the split between Jewish "Christianity" and Gentile digestible, goy-friendly Christianity. It's better for a goy to worship Mashiach than to worship a tree or sacrifice their children to an idol. YHWH is weening the nations to the faith of Israel. What Yehoshua did for the world, is provide everyone with their day in court. No one will be abandoned in the dust, everyone will be resurrected and tried before His heavenly council. That is salvation for everyone.

Only those who were extremely wicked will return to the dust and essentially cease to exist forever. Death without recourse. Thanks to Yehoshua Ha'Mashiach you will rise from the dead, and so will all of your loved ones. Jews who love Hashem and keep His Torah have nothing to fear. Yehoshua will raise you up and grant you your inheritance in YHWH's Kingdom. That is true Christianity, as taught by Yeshua and His 12 apostles.

 

[TruthNotBS]

ah, so you take the opinions that you want and ignore the others and then shift the eschatological argument not to resurrection but to the role of people in the future. Judaism does teach that non-Jews will want to work with Jews as a way to get closer to God.

For more on that, see here

The Gentiles on the Time of Moshiach

www.chabadnj.org

feel free to ignore the parts which undercut your position and claims.

It's not about Jews or Jewishness, it's about one Jew named Yehoshua. We are all in Him, through emunah and living his commandments.

 

[Lisa558]

It's not about Jews or Jewishness, it's about one Jew named Yehoshua. We are all in Him, through emunah and living his commandments.

We get that you believe that. Others have different religions and believe differently.

 

[TruthNotBS]

We get that you believe that. Others have different religions and believe differently.

Believe whatever you want, but if your beliefs are ethnocentric, xenophobic, narcissistic, and pretentious (everything revolves around us, the Jewish people), expect more persecution. That's a natural, human response to people who believe they're the center of the universe, due to pedigree and privilege. Many Jews have a chip on their shoulder, similar to blacks who are always complaining about those 400 years of slavery. Anything you say that is perceived as critical of whatever they're doing is "RACISM", "YOU HATE BLACK PEOPLE"...KKK! Same with Jews. The eternal victims. Yehoshua will free you of that.

 

[Lisa558]

Believe whatever you want, but if your beliefs are ethnocentric, xenophobic, narcissistic, and pretentious (everything revolves around us, the Jewish people), expect more persecution. That's a natural, human response to people who believe they're the center of the universe, due to pedigree and privilege. Many Jews have a chip on their shoulder, similar to blacks who are always complaining about those 400 years of slavery. Anything you say that is perceived as critical of whatever they're doing is "RACISM", "YOU HATE BLACK PEOPLE"...KKK! Same with Jews. The eternal victims. Yehoshua will free you of that.

An antisemitic Christian who thinks his way is the only way. Color me surprised.