White House Confirms It's Purging Disloyal Employees 'From the Bowels of the Federal Government

[TemplarKormac]

I wish you had too - your responses are usually thoughtful

I appreciate the compliment. Means a lot coming from you.

Political appointees serve at the will of the president. I don't care about them.

Alright. Fair point.

Civil servants are career people, who have worked under multiple administrations and are covered by federal hiring/firing laws.

I agree, but they are, like political appointees, integral to the functioning of government. If they can't ensure the proper functioning of the government because they disagree with the administration, they should be fired. Respectfully.

What bothers me is this: loyalty.

Loyalty to what? Or to who? Who defines it? What is "disloyal"? If I work for the federal government and go to climate change rallies in my free time - is that "disloyal"? What if I'm a "never Trumper" but still do my job dutifully?

If I'm president (thank god I'm not XD) then I don't care about what you do with your first amendment rights. What I care about is that you help ensure the proper functioning of the government I preside over. If you are going to obstruct me at every turn because you disagree with my policies, you have forfeited your privilege of being an employee of my administration. Simply put.

The idea of pursuing loyalty to a person (not an office) in the government, is disturbing. You should be loyal to the Constitution, to your country, and do what you job requires.

"Do what your job requires"

Does that job require you to obstruct the agenda of an administration you disagree with? Or does it simply mandate that you carry out your duties as federal law mandates?

It echos back to McCarthy in my view.

I respectfully disagree. When you seek to obstruct someone and strive for their political demise all at the expense of an American like me, simply because you disagree with the administration, is that not being McCarthyist?

 

[TemplarKormac]

Civil Servants can’t be fired for not supporting the Presidents politics.
That is why Civil Service was created.

No one said anything about supporting his politics. He is entitled to employees who know how to follow rules and who understand the existing consequences for breaking them.

I know you don't want him being president in the first place, but this is ludicrous.

Reporting unethical acts of the President is following the rules

I agree, so where are the unethical acts?

Demanding personal favors in return for military aid

And where is the evidence of that? Adam Schiff?

 

[Coyote]

Trump...as usual...conflates loyalty to the country (or the office of the president) with loyalty to him, personally. Perhaps that should be fealty.

Can't recall this sort of things happening before. I wonder if this means combing Facebook and private lives?


White House Confirms It's Purging Disloyal Employees 'From the Bowels of the Federal Government'

The White House this week confirmed it is combing through federal agencies to identify employees not sufficiently loyal to President Trump to facilitate their ouster, sparking concerns the administration could run afoul of long-established civil service laws.

The administration is examining employees throughout the government to find anyone taking action officials decide represents an effort to undermine Trump, White House spokesman Hogan Gidley said on Fox News Monday. Gidley did not specifically mention career employees, who are statutorily protected against political retaliation, but did note the “millions” of individuals agencies employ. By contrast, there are only about 4,000 political appointees in government.

“It’s not a secret that we want people in positions that work with this president, not against him, and too often we have people in this government—I mean the federal government is massive, with millions of people—and there are a lot people out there taking action against this president and when we find them we will take appropriate action,” Gidley said.

His comments followed reports in Axios that the administration maintains “deep state” hit lists of employees to fire and the president has tasked the head of the Presidential Personnel Office, Johnny McEntee, to purge “bad people” who are not loyal to him. The latter report mentioned only political appointees, who serve at the pleasure of the president and can be dismissed at will, but Gidley’s comments this week appeared to go further.

“Time and time again we see in the media reports from people in the bowels of the federal government working against this president,” he said.

Gidley added that unelected federal workers were pushing “their own selfish political agenda” rather than advancing and executing Trump’s.

The latest comments do not mark the first time the Trump administration has stretched the limits of what is allowable under civil service protections. The number of federal employees proving their agencies took prohibited personnel practices against them reached an all-time high in Trump’s first year in office, according to the Office of Special Counsel. The State Department’s inspector general released two reports this year finding that the department illegally engaged in the political targeting of career employees. Federal law prohibits agencies from discriminating against any employee on the basis of political affiliation, or for any federal official to “coerce any applicant or employee to engage in political activity, or to retaliate against such individuals based on partisan politics.”

Anyone and everyone appointed by Barry have proven to be criminal, anti-American, Constitution-violating, law-breaking vermin that need to be expelled from the government....hopefully many will still land in prison where they belong.

Umh no. That's not true. In fact, there have been far more criminals and ethical lapses among Trump's appointees.

List examples based on applicable law, precedent, and appropriate guidelines pertaining to the respective governmental entities.

No. I'm not going to provide all that information - it would take all night to dig up.

But I will provide a partial list: Trump Team’s Conflicts and Scandals: An Interactive Guide

Meanwhile - keep in mind, what I was responding to: "Anyone and everyone appointed by Barry have proven to be criminal, anti-American, Constitution-violating, law-breaking vermin that need to be expelled from the government"

 

[Denizen]

Moral, ethical, righteous people who don't fear the truth and speak the truth.

What kind of truth? Your truth? What ethics? Yours? What morality? Yours?

All these things are influenced by viewpoints. Not on what is universally accepted as such.

Truth, morals, and ethics are not subject to viewpoints.

Trump's lies, slander, bullying, and division are the opposite of truth, morals, and ethics.

 

[Denizen]

They are supposed to be loyal to our country & when they see Trump fucking America, they should speak up.

Yes, but "your country" is China.

We want people loyal to America - no democrat is loyal to America, not one.

Fuck off Trump boy.

My country is the USA. And as an American i despise what Trump is doing & I dispise all the stupid fucks that support him.

You are waging war to try and conquer the USA, but it isn't your country and we plan to fight to keep from EVER being the Marxist totalitarian dictatorship you seek. You despise the United States Constitution and everything it stands for, particularly the Bill of Rights.

The bill of rights has been perverted by the Bill Barr of non-rights and Donald the barbarian.

Just Bill Barr?

Just?

Unjust Bill Barr who has been condemned by 2000+ former DOJ officials.

 

[Coyote]

I wish you had too - your responses are usually thoughtful

I appreciate the compliment. Means a lot coming from you.

Political appointees serve at the will of the president. I don't care about them.

Alright. Fair point.

Civil servants are career people, who have worked under multiple administrations and are covered by federal hiring/firing laws.

I agree, but they are, like political appointees, integral to the functioning of the government. If they can't ensure the proper functioning of the government because they disagree with the administration, they should be fired. Respectfully.

What bothers me is this: loyalty.

Loyalty to what? Or to who? Who defines it? What is "disloyal"? If I work for the federal government and go to climate change rallies in my free time - is that "disloyal"? What if I'm a "never Trumper" but still do my job dutifully?

If I'm president (thank god I'm not XD) then I don't care about what you do with your first amendment rights. What I care about is that you help ensure the proper functioning of the government I preside over. If you are going to obstruct me at every turn because you disagree with my policies, you have forfeited your privilege of being an employee of my administration. Simply put.

The idea of pursuing loyalty to a person (not an office) in the government, is disturbing. You should be loyal to the Constitution, to your country, and do what you job requires.

"Do what your job requires"

Does that job require you to obstruct the agenda of an administration you disagree with? Or does it simply mandate that you carry out your duties as federal law mandates?

It echos back to McCarthy in my view.

I respectfully disagree. When you seek to obstruct someone and strive for their political demise all at the expense of an American like me, simply because you disagree with the administration, is that not being McCarthyist?

But...how is "seek to obstruct" defined? I don't agree that federal employees serve the president or the president's agenda - at least not directly. Each agency has it's own mandates and rules. I believe those were set by Congress? So, a president can't impose or force an agenda that violates the agency charter can he? But what if he tries? And - here too, loyalty. Are you loyal to the mission of the agency (within which the president imposes his agenda) or the person of the president?

 

[TemplarKormac]

Hmm... the six million Jews who were murdered by Hitler would disagree.

Six million dead Jews are a bigger danger to the US than Trumpery? How so?

How dense can you be?

The ideology that spurred Hitler to kill them is. And if they were alive, they would tell you just as much.

Are you doing this on purpose?

That is the same ideology Trump is promoting. White supremacy, hate, and division.

Simple question(s)

How many people has he killed because he deemed them as an inferior race?

How many people has he put in gulags or concentration camps to be purged simply because he viewed their ethnicity or viewpoints as dangerous?

Can you tell me? Or are you simply content with spewing uneducated talking points?

Few self proclaimed White Supremacists have killed those they see as inferior or put anyone in gulags or concentration camps. They're still White Supremacists.

Oh so is that the only qualifier? He's a white supremacist because your leash holders tell you he is?

I'm curious, do you think for yourself, Seawytch?

Perhaps you forget of all the most prominent tyrants and dictators in human history, or more relevant to our politics, the Ku Klux Klan, who murdered black people for being black.

 

[TemplarKormac]

Yes, but "your country" is China.

We want people loyal to America - no democrat is loyal to America, not one.

Fuck off Trump boy.

My country is the USA. And as an American i despise what Trump is doing & I dispise all the stupid fucks that support him.

You are waging war to try and conquer the USA, but it isn't your country and we plan to fight to keep from EVER being the Marxist totalitarian dictatorship you seek. You despise the United States Constitution and everything it stands for, particularly the Bill of Rights.

The bill of rights has been perverted by the Bill Barr of non-rights and Donald the barbarian.

Just Bill Barr?

Just?

Unjust Bill Barr who has been condemned by 2000+ former DOJ officials.

"former"

They are "former" for a reason.

 

[TemplarKormac]

I don't agree that federal employees serve the president or the president's agenda - at least not directly.

I never said they do, or should. I am simply saying they should do their job. That's it. If your political views prevent you from doing your job, you don't need to be in it.

Each agency has it's own mandates and rules. I believe those were set by Congress?

Of course, which all hearkens back to the Constitution. Which is ignored when you break the rules to impede an administration you disagree with.

So, a president can't impose or force an agenda that violates the agency charter can he?

No. I never said he could.

But what if he tries?

I would be the first to say that is wrong. But from my perspective, he has done nothing which hurts me or my family directly as American citizens.

Are you loyal to the mission of the agency (within which the president imposes his agenda) or the person of the president?

Counter question:

Are you loyal to the mission and the country, or to your viewpoints? Are you loyal to authority or to yourself? If your viewpoints affect your ability to carry out that mission, you are loyal to yourself and yourself only. It's all well and good, but it is not compatible with the functioning of the agency you work for. I, as a taxpayer, am paying you to do your job, not force your viewpoints on the people that work over you.

 

[rightwinger]

Trump...as usual...conflates loyalty to the country (or the office of the president) with loyalty to him, personally. Perhaps that should be fealty.

Can't recall this sort of things happening before. I wonder if this means combing Facebook and private lives?


White House Confirms It's Purging Disloyal Employees 'From the Bowels of the Federal Government'

The White House this week confirmed it is combing through federal agencies to identify employees not sufficiently loyal to President Trump to facilitate their ouster, sparking concerns the administration could run afoul of long-established civil service laws.

The administration is examining employees throughout the government to find anyone taking action officials decide represents an effort to undermine Trump, White House spokesman Hogan Gidley said on Fox News Monday. Gidley did not specifically mention career employees, who are statutorily protected against political retaliation, but did note the “millions” of individuals agencies employ. By contrast, there are only about 4,000 political appointees in government.

“It’s not a secret that we want people in positions that work with this president, not against him, and too often we have people in this government—I mean the federal government is massive, with millions of people—and there are a lot people out there taking action against this president and when we find them we will take appropriate action,” Gidley said.

His comments followed reports in Axios that the administration maintains “deep state” hit lists of employees to fire and the president has tasked the head of the Presidential Personnel Office, Johnny McEntee, to purge “bad people” who are not loyal to him. The latter report mentioned only political appointees, who serve at the pleasure of the president and can be dismissed at will, but Gidley’s comments this week appeared to go further.

“Time and time again we see in the media reports from people in the bowels of the federal government working against this president,” he said.

Gidley added that unelected federal workers were pushing “their own selfish political agenda” rather than advancing and executing Trump’s.

The latest comments do not mark the first time the Trump administration has stretched the limits of what is allowable under civil service protections. The number of federal employees proving their agencies took prohibited personnel practices against them reached an all-time high in Trump’s first year in office, according to the Office of Special Counsel. The State Department’s inspector general released two reports this year finding that the department illegally engaged in the political targeting of career employees. Federal law prohibits agencies from discriminating against any employee on the basis of political affiliation, or for any federal official to “coerce any applicant or employee to engage in political activity, or to retaliate against such individuals based on partisan politics.”

So, he’s finally doing what the Hussein did on day one.

Can you give an example?

 

[Denizen]

What makes you think tRump is their boss?

I'm thinking the constitution does.

Uh... No.

You kids are always talking about the Constitution, how come none of you have ever read it?

I have read it. It says nothing about the president having to be loyal to your point of view. Where in the constitution does it require him to keep people who willingly undermine him under his employ?

Can you answer that for me?

The only persons undermining Donald Trump is Donald Trump and the administration ass-clowns he appointed who are following him down the rabbit hole of immorality.

And you are a conspiracy theorist, just as much so as some of the neo cons on this message board.

Donald Trump is a bigger conspiracy theory proponent and has turned his administration into a laboratory of conspiracies.

 

[rightwinger]

I don't agree that federal employees serve the president or the president's agenda - at least not directly.

I never said they do, or should. I am simply saying they should do their job. That's it. If your political views prevent you from doing your job, you don't need to be in it.

Each agency has it's own mandates and rules. I believe those were set by Congress?

Of course, which all hearkens back to the Constitution. Which is ignored when you break the rules to impede an administration you disagree with.

So, a president can't impose or force an agenda that violates the agency charter can he?

No. I never said he could.

But what if he tries?

I would be the first to say that is wrong. But from my perspective, he has done nothing which hurts me or my family directly as American citizens.

Are you loyal to the mission of the agency (within which the president imposes his agenda) or the person of the president?

Counter question:

Are you loyal to the mission and the country, or to your viewpoints? Are you loyal to authority or to yourself? If your viewpoints affect your ability to carry out that mission, you are loyal to yourself and yourself only. It's all well and good, but it is not compatible with the functioning of the agency you work for. I, as a taxpayer, am paying you to do your job, not force you viewpoints on the people that work over you.

Trump is firing people for doing their job

Is their job to fake hurricane maps to placate the President?
is their job to downplay global warming because the President says it is a myth?

 

[TemplarKormac]

Trump...as usual...conflates loyalty to the country (or the office of the president) with loyalty to him, personally. Perhaps that should be fealty.

Can't recall this sort of things happening before. I wonder if this means combing Facebook and private lives?


White House Confirms It's Purging Disloyal Employees 'From the Bowels of the Federal Government'

The White House this week confirmed it is combing through federal agencies to identify employees not sufficiently loyal to President Trump to facilitate their ouster, sparking concerns the administration could run afoul of long-established civil service laws.

The administration is examining employees throughout the government to find anyone taking action officials decide represents an effort to undermine Trump, White House spokesman Hogan Gidley said on Fox News Monday. Gidley did not specifically mention career employees, who are statutorily protected against political retaliation, but did note the “millions” of individuals agencies employ. By contrast, there are only about 4,000 political appointees in government.

“It’s not a secret that we want people in positions that work with this president, not against him, and too often we have people in this government—I mean the federal government is massive, with millions of people—and there are a lot people out there taking action against this president and when we find them we will take appropriate action,” Gidley said.

His comments followed reports in Axios that the administration maintains “deep state” hit lists of employees to fire and the president has tasked the head of the Presidential Personnel Office, Johnny McEntee, to purge “bad people” who are not loyal to him. The latter report mentioned only political appointees, who serve at the pleasure of the president and can be dismissed at will, but Gidley’s comments this week appeared to go further.

“Time and time again we see in the media reports from people in the bowels of the federal government working against this president,” he said.

Gidley added that unelected federal workers were pushing “their own selfish political agenda” rather than advancing and executing Trump’s.

The latest comments do not mark the first time the Trump administration has stretched the limits of what is allowable under civil service protections. The number of federal employees proving their agencies took prohibited personnel practices against them reached an all-time high in Trump’s first year in office, according to the Office of Special Counsel. The State Department’s inspector general released two reports this year finding that the department illegally engaged in the political targeting of career employees. Federal law prohibits agencies from discriminating against any employee on the basis of political affiliation, or for any federal official to “coerce any applicant or employee to engage in political activity, or to retaliate against such individuals based on partisan politics.”

Anyone and everyone appointed by Barry have proven to be criminal, anti-American, Constitution-violating, law-breaking vermin that need to be expelled from the government....hopefully many will still land in prison where they belong.

Umh no. That's not true. In fact, there have been far more criminals and ethical lapses among Trump's appointees.

List examples based on applicable law, precedent, and appropriate guidelines pertaining to the respective governmental entities.

No. I'm not going to provide all that information - it would take all night to dig up.

But I will provide a partial list: Trump Team’s Conflicts and Scandals: An Interactive Guide

Meanwhile - keep in mind, what I was responding to: "Anyone and everyone appointed by Barry have proven to be criminal, anti-American, Constitution-violating, law-breaking vermin that need to be expelled from the government"

Bloomberg. I am sorry, please seek a more objective source. Not a source owned by someone running for political office. That screams "conflict of interest" to me. Apologies in advance.

 

[TemplarKormac]

I don't agree that federal employees serve the president or the president's agenda - at least not directly.

I never said they do, or should. I am simply saying they should do their job. That's it. If your political views prevent you from doing your job, you don't need to be in it.

Each agency has it's own mandates and rules. I believe those were set by Congress?

Of course, which all hearkens back to the Constitution. Which is ignored when you break the rules to impede an administration you disagree with.

So, a president can't impose or force an agenda that violates the agency charter can he?

No. I never said he could.

But what if he tries?

I would be the first to say that is wrong. But from my perspective, he has done nothing which hurts me or my family directly as American citizens.

Are you loyal to the mission of the agency (within which the president imposes his agenda) or the person of the president?

Counter question:

Are you loyal to the mission and the country, or to your viewpoints? Are you loyal to authority or to yourself? If your viewpoints affect your ability to carry out that mission, you are loyal to yourself and yourself only. It's all well and good, but it is not compatible with the functioning of the agency you work for. I, as a taxpayer, am paying you to do your job, not force you viewpoints on the people that work over you.

Trump is firing people for doing their job

Is their job to fake hurricane maps to placate the President?
is their job to downplay global warming because the President says it is a myth?

Is global warming a governmental priority? When has it ever been? It is overall good policy to take care of your environment, not enforce ludicrous policies that have nothing to do with the environment.

And why is it you blame natural disasters on "global warming", ergo the president? Whose views are you placating to?

 

[TemplarKormac]

I'm thinking the constitution does.

Uh... No.

You kids are always talking about the Constitution, how come none of you have ever read it?

I have read it. It says nothing about the president having to be loyal to your point of view. Where in the constitution does it require him to keep people who willingly undermine him under his employ?

Can you answer that for me?

The only persons undermining Donald Trump is Donald Trump and the administration ass-clowns he appointed who are following him down the rabbit hole of immorality.

And you are a conspiracy theorist, just as much so as some of the neo cons on this message board.

Donald Trump is a bigger conspiracy theory proponent and has turned his administration into a laboratory of conspiracies.

Hmm...

I'd like you to prove that.

 

[TemplarKormac]

Civil Servants can’t be fired for not supporting the Presidents politics.
That is why Civil Service was created.

No one said anything about supporting his politics. He is entitled to employees who know how to follow rules and who understand the existing consequences for breaking them.

I know you don't want him being president in the first place, but this is ludicrous.

Reporting unethical acts of the President is following the rules

I agree, so where are the unethical acts?

The kind Lt Col. Vindman testified to...

You mean the guy who lied to congress? Changed his testimony multiple times? You mean to refer me to an untrustworthy person?

 

[Denizen]

Six million dead Jews are a bigger danger to the US than Trumpery? How so?

How dense can you be?

The ideology that spurred Hitler to kill them is. And if they were alive, they would tell you just as much.

Are you doing this on purpose?

That is the same ideology Trump is promoting. White supremacy, hate, and division.

Simple question(s)

How many people has he killed because he deemed them as an inferior race?

How many people has he put in gulags or concentration camps to be purged simply because he viewed their ethnicity or viewpoints as dangerous?

Can you tell me? Or are you simply content with spewing uneducated talking points?

Few self proclaimed White Supremacists have killed those they see as inferior or put anyone in gulags or concentration camps. They're still White Supremacists.

Oh so is that the only qualifier? He's a white supremacist because your leash holders tell you he is?

I'm curious, do you think for yourself, Seawytch?

Perhaps you forget of all the most prominent tyrants and dictators in human history, or more relevant to our politics, the Ku Klux Klan, who murdered black people for being black.

KKK and its ilk now wear red MAGA hats and howl with joy every time Trump lies, slanders, and insults others.

 

[rightwinger]

I don't agree that federal employees serve the president or the president's agenda - at least not directly.

I never said they do, or should. I am simply saying they should do their job. That's it. If your political views prevent you from doing your job, you don't need to be in it.

Each agency has it's own mandates and rules. I believe those were set by Congress?

Of course, which all hearkens back to the Constitution. Which is ignored when you break the rules to impede an administration you disagree with.

So, a president can't impose or force an agenda that violates the agency charter can he?

No. I never said he could.

But what if he tries?

I would be the first to say that is wrong. But from my perspective, he has done nothing which hurts me or my family directly as American citizens.

Are you loyal to the mission of the agency (within which the president imposes his agenda) or the person of the president?

Counter question:

Are you loyal to the mission and the country, or to your viewpoints? Are you loyal to authority or to yourself? If your viewpoints affect your ability to carry out that mission, you are loyal to yourself and yourself only. It's all well and good, but it is not compatible with the functioning of the agency you work for. I, as a taxpayer, am paying you to do your job, not force you viewpoints on the people that work over you.

Trump is firing people for doing their job

Is their job to fake hurricane maps to placate the President?
is their job to downplay global warming because the President says it is a myth?

Is global warming a governmental priority? When has it ever been? It is overall good policy to take care of your environment, not enforce ludicrous policies that have nothing to do with the environment.

And why is it you blame natural disasters on "global warming", ergo the president? Whose views are you placating to?

Scientists report facts. They are there to present scientific data not to support the Presidents lies.

The weather service is responsible for warning people of impending disasters....not to cover for the inaccurate claims of the president.

These are the people being threatened with firing for being “disloyal” to our president

 

[rightwinger]

How dense can you be?

The ideology that spurred Hitler to kill them is. And if they were alive, they would tell you just as much.

Are you doing this on purpose?

That is the same ideology Trump is promoting. White supremacy, hate, and division.

Simple question(s)

How many people has he killed because he deemed them as an inferior race?

How many people has he put in gulags or concentration camps to be purged simply because he viewed their ethnicity or viewpoints as dangerous?

Can you tell me? Or are you simply content with spewing uneducated talking points?

Few self proclaimed White Supremacists have killed those they see as inferior or put anyone in gulags or concentration camps. They're still White Supremacists.

Oh so is that the only qualifier? He's a white supremacist because your leash holders tell you he is?

I'm curious, do you think for yourself, Seawytch?

Perhaps you forget of all the most prominent tyrants and dictators in human history, or more relevant to our politics, the Ku Klux Klan, who murdered black people for being black.

KKK and its ilk now wear red MAGA hats and howl with joy every time Trump lies, slanders, and insults others.

They think they look better in MAGA hats than white hoods

 

[TemplarKormac]

Truth, morals, and ethics are not subject to viewpoints.

Yeah, they are.

You are a prime example of that.