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The responsibility of the āMoslem worldā to ārein inā?
That is what makes your argument ridiculous.
They are not one entity. They do not speak with one voice.
They don't? I'm not so sure about that. When was the last time a Jew walked on the Temple Mount and had any significant group of Muslims (or even a single one) SUPPORT the Jewish right to presence, prayer and worship in the Holiest Jewish Place?
No.
They donāt.
Christians revere Bethlehem, but they donāt speak with the same voice. Do all Jews speak with the same voice? Is there one leader that speaks for them all?
Of course not.
But Muslims are unique in this day and age arenāt they? Unlike Christians or Jews, they are expected to apologize and be responsible for the bad acts of any Muslim any where in the world.
Hamas isnāt all Palestinians or even most however....[ "All Lands of Palestine" means ALL OF ISRAEL ]
Ismail Haniyeh says āblood of martyrs brings us closer to victory over Zionist enemy,ā vows ongoing fight until āsiege on Jerusalem, Al-Aqsa and all lands of Palestine is liftedā
(full article online)
Hamas leader: We wonāt halt Gaza marches for ādiesel fuel and dollarsā
Coyote
On one of these threads, you claimed that the hate each side has for the other is the same. i disagree. And this is why.
There is all the difference in the world between, "We are going to keep killing you (and ourselves and our children) because you are enemies and you have no rights to, well, anything." AND "Please, would you just stop trying to kill us? And acknowledge our history? And if you can't we are forced to defend ourselves."
Now, I'll admit, that defense sometimes looks ugly, and sometimes it IS ugly. But Israel is not trying to use the blood of her children to take Gaza.
And why canāt israeliās Also acknowledge the Palestinianās history.
That was a spectacular dodge.
It is NOT just Hamas which holds the broad view which I stated. It is widely accepted across Palestinians. The proof is in the "March" and in the stabbings and in the speeches made by Abbas and his advisors and in the polls. The only reason I use Gaza so often in this argument is because it is OBVIOUS with Gaza and YET obvious as it is, people (even more or less reasonable people like you) STILL give excuses, dodge or justify the murderous intent expressed by Gaza, its government and its people.
Again, Israel is not using the blood of her children to take Gaza. Israel is not attacking Gaza. Israel is not trying in her tens of thousands to cross the border into Gaza. Israel is not making public speeches calling to rip the hearts out of Gazans.
Stop excusing them.
Hamas isnāt all Palestinians or even most however....[ "All Lands of Palestine" means ALL OF ISRAEL ]
Ismail Haniyeh says āblood of martyrs brings us closer to victory over Zionist enemy,ā vows ongoing fight until āsiege on Jerusalem, Al-Aqsa and all lands of Palestine is liftedā
(full article online)
Hamas leader: We wonāt halt Gaza marches for ādiesel fuel and dollarsā
Coyote
On one of these threads, you claimed that the hate each side has for the other is the same. i disagree. And this is why.
There is all the difference in the world between, "We are going to keep killing you (and ourselves and our children) because you are enemies and you have no rights to, well, anything." AND "Please, would you just stop trying to kill us? And acknowledge our history? And if you can't we are forced to defend ourselves."
Now, I'll admit, that defense sometimes looks ugly, and sometimes it IS ugly. But Israel is not trying to use the blood of her children to take Gaza.
And why canāt israeliās Also acknowledge the Palestinianās history.
That was a spectacular dodge.
It is NOT just Hamas which holds the broad view which I stated. It is widely accepted across Palestinians. The proof is in the "March" and in the stabbings and in the speeches made by Abbas and his advisors and in the polls. The only reason I use Gaza so often in this argument is because it is OBVIOUS with Gaza and YET obvious as it is, people (even more or less reasonable people like you) STILL give excuses, dodge or justify the murderous intent expressed by Gaza, its government and its people.
Again, Israel is not using the blood of her children to take Gaza. Israel is not attacking Gaza. Israel is not trying in her tens of thousands to cross the border into Gaza. Israel is not making public speeches calling to rip the hearts out of Gazans.
Stop excusing them.
What evidence do you have that Hamas view is widely held among all Palestinians? There are some 5 million Palestinians? How many of them are out murdering Jews?
I do not see any difference between Palestinian hate and Israeli hate when it erupts in to violence towards innocent people. There is no excuse for it. But whoās violence gets excused the most? You heard it in these threads.
It is āunderstandableā when a Jewish youth attacks and kills a Palestinian youth in revenge for a prior palistinian killing of a Jew. But it isnāt āunderstandableā when a Palestinian youth attacks and kills a Jewish youth in revenge for the killing of a Palestinian. So why are people excusing it?
No.
They donāt.
Christians revere Bethlehem, but they donāt speak with the same voice. Do all Jews speak with the same voice? Is there one leader that speaks for them all?
Of course not.
But Muslims are unique in this day and age arenāt they? Unlike Christians or Jews, they are expected to apologize and be responsible for the bad acts of any Muslim any where in the world.
Well, actually, I DO believe that it is up to each group to police their own. I believe it IS, actually, incumbent upon all Jews to speak out against wrong behaviour from within their community. I DO, actually, believe that all Jews are responsible for the entirety of the Jewish community. There is a significant portion of Jewish law related to just this very thing.
Hamas isnāt all Palestinians or even most however....[ "All Lands of Palestine" means ALL OF ISRAEL ]
Ismail Haniyeh says āblood of martyrs brings us closer to victory over Zionist enemy,ā vows ongoing fight until āsiege on Jerusalem, Al-Aqsa and all lands of Palestine is liftedā
(full article online)
Hamas leader: We wonāt halt Gaza marches for ādiesel fuel and dollarsā
Coyote
On one of these threads, you claimed that the hate each side has for the other is the same. i disagree. And this is why.
There is all the difference in the world between, "We are going to keep killing you (and ourselves and our children) because you are enemies and you have no rights to, well, anything." AND "Please, would you just stop trying to kill us? And acknowledge our history? And if you can't we are forced to defend ourselves."
Now, I'll admit, that defense sometimes looks ugly, and sometimes it IS ugly. But Israel is not trying to use the blood of her children to take Gaza.
And why canāt israeliās Also acknowledge the Palestinianās history.
That was a spectacular dodge.
It is NOT just Hamas which holds the broad view which I stated. It is widely accepted across Palestinians. The proof is in the "March" and in the stabbings and in the speeches made by Abbas and his advisors and in the polls. The only reason I use Gaza so often in this argument is because it is OBVIOUS with Gaza and YET obvious as it is, people (even more or less reasonable people like you) STILL give excuses, dodge or justify the murderous intent expressed by Gaza, its government and its people.
Again, Israel is not using the blood of her children to take Gaza. Israel is not attacking Gaza. Israel is not trying in her tens of thousands to cross the border into Gaza. Israel is not making public speeches calling to rip the hearts out of Gazans.
Stop excusing them.
What evidence do you have that Hamas view is widely held among all Palestinians? There are some 5 million Palestinians? How many of them are out murdering Jews?
I do not see any difference between Palestinian hate and Israeli hate when it erupts in to violence towards innocent people. There is no excuse for it. But whoās violence gets excused the most? You heard it in these threads.
It is āunderstandableā when a Jewish youth attacks and kills a Palestinian youth in revenge for a prior palistinian killing of a Jew. But it isnāt āunderstandableā when a Palestinian youth attacks and kills a Jewish youth in revenge for the killing of a Palestinian. So why are people excusing it?
No, it is not the same hate.
"We are going to keep killing you" is NOT the same as "Stop trying to kill us".
AGAIN, Israel is not massing tens of thousands of people on the border trying to break through and kill Arabs.
There is no equivalence here. And yet, you keep trying to make an equivalence.
No.
They donāt.
Christians revere Bethlehem, but they donāt speak with the same voice. Do all Jews speak with the same voice? Is there one leader that speaks for them all?
Of course not.
But Muslims are unique in this day and age arenāt they? Unlike Christians or Jews, they are expected to apologize and be responsible for the bad acts of any Muslim any where in the world.
Well, actually, I DO believe that it is up to each group to police their own. I believe it IS, actually, incumbent upon all Jews to speak out against wrong behaviour from within their community. I DO, actually, believe that all Jews are responsible for the entirety of the Jewish community. There is a significant portion of Jewish law related to just this very thing.
There are 1.8 billion Muslims in a huge number of countries, with different cultures around the world. They are not one culture or ethnicity and they donāt even all agree or like each other.
You might believe in it, but that doesnāt make a fair or realistic expectation of such unified groups. Nor does it change the fact that Muslims are the only group on whom this expectation is demanded and whoās various statements condemning violence and extremism are routinely ignored or marginalized. Double standards.
Hamas isnāt all Palestinians or even most however....Coyote
On one of these threads, you claimed that the hate each side has for the other is the same. i disagree. And this is why.
There is all the difference in the world between, "We are going to keep killing you (and ourselves and our children) because you are enemies and you have no rights to, well, anything." AND "Please, would you just stop trying to kill us? And acknowledge our history? And if you can't we are forced to defend ourselves."
Now, I'll admit, that defense sometimes looks ugly, and sometimes it IS ugly. But Israel is not trying to use the blood of her children to take Gaza.
And why canāt israeliās Also acknowledge the Palestinianās history.
That was a spectacular dodge.
It is NOT just Hamas which holds the broad view which I stated. It is widely accepted across Palestinians. The proof is in the "March" and in the stabbings and in the speeches made by Abbas and his advisors and in the polls. The only reason I use Gaza so often in this argument is because it is OBVIOUS with Gaza and YET obvious as it is, people (even more or less reasonable people like you) STILL give excuses, dodge or justify the murderous intent expressed by Gaza, its government and its people.
Again, Israel is not using the blood of her children to take Gaza. Israel is not attacking Gaza. Israel is not trying in her tens of thousands to cross the border into Gaza. Israel is not making public speeches calling to rip the hearts out of Gazans.
Stop excusing them.
What evidence do you have that Hamas view is widely held among all Palestinians? There are some 5 million Palestinians? How many of them are out murdering Jews?
I do not see any difference between Palestinian hate and Israeli hate when it erupts in to violence towards innocent people. There is no excuse for it. But whoās violence gets excused the most? You heard it in these threads.
It is āunderstandableā when a Jewish youth attacks and kills a Palestinian youth in revenge for a prior palistinian killing of a Jew. But it isnāt āunderstandableā when a Palestinian youth attacks and kills a Jewish youth in revenge for the killing of a Palestinian. So why are people excusing it?
No, it is not the same hate.
"We are going to keep killing you" is NOT the same as "Stop trying to kill us".
AGAIN, Israel is not massing tens of thousands of people on the border trying to break through and kill Arabs.
There is no equivalence here. And yet, you keep trying to make an equivalence.
How is firebombing a house full of sleeping people a statement of āstop trying to kill us?ā
No.
They donāt.
Christians revere Bethlehem, but they donāt speak with the same voice. Do all Jews speak with the same voice? Is there one leader that speaks for them all?
Of course not.
But Muslims are unique in this day and age arenāt they? Unlike Christians or Jews, they are expected to apologize and be responsible for the bad acts of any Muslim any where in the world.
Well, actually, I DO believe that it is up to each group to police their own. I believe it IS, actually, incumbent upon all Jews to speak out against wrong behaviour from within their community. I DO, actually, believe that all Jews are responsible for the entirety of the Jewish community. There is a significant portion of Jewish law related to just this very thing.
There are 1.8 billion Muslims in a huge number of countries, with different cultures around the world. They are not one culture or ethnicity and they donāt even all agree or like each other.
You might believe in it, but that doesnāt make a fair or realistic expectation of such unified groups. Nor does it change the fact that Muslims are the only group on whom this expectation is demanded and whoās various statements condemning violence and extremism are routinely ignored or marginalized. Double standards.
How can a designation such as "Muslim" even mean anything if we all agree that this Muslim has nothing in common with that Muslim and there is no common ground upon which they stand. It becomes a meaningless word.
Muslims, imo, who reject violence and extremism and who support the rights of ALL peoples to worship and pray and live according to their own self-determination and history and traditions are not doing ENOUGH within their own communities.
And no, Muslims are NOT by a long shot the only group upon whom this expectation is demanded. One only has to look at the antisemitism and attacks against Jews around the world to know that.
COMMUNITY faith groups can work to change within their group but a Muslim in Canada has no influence on a Muslim in Egypt and they donāt even share the same culture.
COMMUNITY faith groups can work to change within their group but a Muslim in Canada has no influence on a Muslim in Egypt and they donāt even share the same culture.
I absolutely disagree. A Muslim in Canada can influence not only other Muslims in Canada, but Muslims elsewhere.
One would think that with all the Muslims in the world, if they believed in the rights of all people to be present, pray and worship at their own most Holy Places that Jews wouldn't have so much trouble being present and praying and worshiping on the Temple Mount. Surely, all those Muslims who speak with a different voice would not permit such an egregious removal of fundamental human rights, would they?
"Surely, all those Muslims who speak with a different voice would not permit such an egregious removal of fundamental human rights, would they?"
weirdos.... "because you're a woman, you weren't allowed to drive..."
