Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2

[rylah]

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
⁜→ Shusha, watchingfromafar, et al,

This is the tanglefoot of the language and labels we use. In this case what you think you heard is not what was meant to be conveyed.

It is the zionist hate filled child killers who need to be condemned

Didn't you just say you weren't anti-zionist? Didn't you just say that you believed in the rights of the Jewish people to their own homeland?

And then you go and use "Zionism" (which MEANS Jewish people having rights to their own homeland) as a designation of evil, while also continuing the lies you began on the other thread.

(COMMENT)

I'm not sure there is a clear and concise definition of a "Zionist" that you can hang your hat on. Zionist of differing eras explain "zionism" differently.

· They are Jewish are people.
· They believe Jewish People have the right to self-determination.
· The Zionist see Israel as including "Judea and Sumara."
· The Jewish people have a right to form a nation - of free people.​

The "baby killer theme" used to discredit the moral continuity of the opponent is just that, propaganda. It very often reoccurs as a measure to employ when they have nothing else.

Most Respectfully,
R

Zionism is support for the Jewish nation's independence in Israel, the basis and common denominator.
There're liberal, conservative, democrat, republican,socialist, capitalist, progressive, feminist, LGBTQ, Christian, Muslim, Secular, Israeli and non-Israeli Zionists.

Coincidently, it started as a response to Arab pogroms throughout the middle east, specifically as a response to expulsion of Jews from all of their holy cities in Israel, and the devastating waves of violence caused by the Damascus blood libel.

Didn't also find its origins in The Dreyfuss Affair?

Mindful

A bit later, during Hertzl time.
Jewish press and political representation in the diaspora already organized in cooperation as a result of the Damascus blood libel 50 years earlier, which gained much international attention to the plight of the Jews in the middle east.

In historic terms both the Jewish communities in the middle east and Europe experienced a devastating wave of violence almost simultaneously in a short span of time, but to be more specific it were the Jews living in Israel and Syria who's call for help gave the initial push to independence.

 

[RoccoR]

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
⁜→ Mindful, rylah, et al,

I think that, with the exception of the emerging Arab central theme opposing the establishment of a Jewish National Home → in that same time frame (late 1900s - early 20th Century), the Military Court-Martial was a great tragedy for the Western Powers of the day and a blight on the integrity of the French General Staff (which could do no wrong).

Didn't also find its origins in The Dreyfuss Affair?

(SIDE-BAR)

It was not until Colonel Georges Picquart (Director of French Military Counterintelligence) realized the mistake in investigation and subsequent conviction of Captain Dreyfus, that the real discrimination began to emerge. Colonel Georges Picquart had determined that a different French Officer [Major (original commission acquired through family influence)(French Foreign Legion} Marie Charles "Ferdinand" Walsin-Esterhazy] was responsible for feeding the Germans critical French military plans.

(COMMENT)

Major Marie Charles "Ferdinand" Walsin-Esterhazy was of nobility and son of a decorated French General and hero in the Crimean War. The French General Staff was not interested in draging the family name through the mud. Nor was the French General Staff willing to openly admit it had made a mistake in the investigation and prosecution of Captain Dreyfus.

The French General Staff was not only interested in down-playing the wrongful conviction of an innocent officer, but also the fact that a "Jewish" Officer was prosecuted as opposed to a Field Grade Officer with "aristocratic" connections and an irregular military commission.

Just as a diamond has many facets, in the era of the Dreyfus Affair, many events came together that influenced Jewish history.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[Sixties Fan]

There are striking similarities between the murder of the 19-year-old Israeli woman Ori Ansbacher a few days ago and the murder of the 25-year-old Israeli woman Moran Amit in 2002. Both were attacked by Palestinian terrorists while walking peacefully in a Jerusalem forest. Both were stabbed to death.

In 2002, Moran was taking a walk with a friend in the Shalom Forest in Jerusalem when five teenage terrorists hunted them, attacked them, and stabbed Moran to death. Last week, Ori was walking through the Ein Yael forest in Jerusalem on the way from the youth center where she volunteered when a Palestinian terrorist brutally attacked her and then stabbed her to death.

Moran Amit, murdered by Palestinians in a forest in 2002

Ori Ansbacher, murdered by a Palestinian in a forest in 2019


And there are also similarities between the PA’s reaction to the two murders. In both cases, the PA did not condemn the terror. And more than that, in response to both terror attacks, the PA this week chose to present Palestinians as the victims.

(full article online)

Striking similarities between stabbings of 2 young Israeli women - PMW Bulletins

 

[Sixties Fan]

Border Guard Thwarts Stabbing Attack in Tomb of the Patriarchs

 

[Sixties Fan]

Watch: Arab torches security camera in East Jerusalem

 

[Sixties Fan]

[ Ah, what all of this money could have done for Gaza, but did not, but could have done to all the African countries in real need for help ]

Qatar gave over $1.1 billion to Gaza Strip from 2012-18, ministers told

 

[Hollie]

[ Ah, what all of this money could have done for Gaza, but did not, but could have done to all the African countries in real need for help ]

Qatar gave over $1.1 billion to Gaza Strip from 2012-18, ministers told

Daddy Mahmoud needs a new pair of shoes private jet.

 

[Sixties Fan]

Palestinians threaten intifada if Israel deducts salaries to terrorists ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News

 

[Sixties Fan]

However, Gold pointed to what he thinks is UNRWA’s worst sin: The “conversion of the Palestinian refugee problem to a challenge locked into perpetuity.”

In other words, he said, “if you look at other refugee situations—Europe after World War II—all those refugees have been settled. Whereas, in the case of the Palestinian refugees who are taken care of by UNRWA, the numbers have only increased from about half a million in 1948 to what UNRWA claims is over 5 million today. That represents a total failure of UNRWA as a refugee organization.”

Other refugees around the world have been repatriated. Of the millions displaced after World War II, not one is a refugee today. The 15 million Hindus and Muslims forced to move when India and Pakistan split, are no longer refugees. Bosnian and Kosovar Muslims kicked out of Serbia are no longer refugees. Not a single one of the 850,000 Jewish refugees from Arab lands is today a refugee.

So why are Palestinian refugees treated differently than other refugees?

Palestinian Authority leader Mahmoud Abbas has answered this question himself. He has referred to Palestinian refugees everywhere as “guests” waiting to return to their homes and has refused to allow Palestinians to be repatriated in their host countries so as not to give up their “right of return.”

And P.A. spokesman Nabil Abu Rudeina has said, “The issue of the Palestinian refugees and their right of return is one of the issues in a permanent arrangement, and no one can make changes to it … ”

The Palestinian leadership themselves, together with other Arab states as well as UNRWA, refuse to allow any repatriation of Palestinian refugees outside of Israel. The responsibility for a “just and lasting solution” for the Palestinian refugees, as per UN resolution 194, has been laid squarely on Israel’s shoulders, while ignoring the responsibility of the Arab states that refuse to absorb the Palestinian refugees already residing within their borders.

According to many well-documented statements by Palestinian and Arab leaders themselves, the Palestinian refugees have been used as pawns and a weapon in the fight against Israel.

(full article online)

New report highlights how UN gives singular treatment to Palestinian refugees

 

[Sixties Fan]

[ What Hypocrites. They have ben given Billions, from America, to Europe to Arab countries. They have Millions or more stashed away for themselves, and then they have the guts to say this: ]

PLO Secretary-General Saeb Erekat, who is currently visiting Egypt, complained on Sunday that the US administration has already cut hundreds of millions of dollars in aid to the Palestinians.

The move, he said, has left road, school and sanitation projects in the West Bank and Gaza Strip unfinished. All scholarships to Palestinian students have also been halted, Erekat said.

(full article online)

https://www.jpost.com/Arab-Israeli-...-we-will-spend-it-on-prisoners-martyrs-580270


[ And not too many non leaders in Gaza and the PA are aware that all the money they usually get do not go to take care of them, create jobs, infrastructure, etc . So, the vicious cycle remains ]

 

[watchingfromafar]

Zionism is support for the Jewish nation's independence in Israel, the basis and common denominator..

Zionism (Hebrew: צִיּוֹנוּת‬ Tsiyyonut [t͡sijo̞ˈnut] after Zion) is the national movement of the Jewish people that supports the re-establishment of a Jewish homeland in the territory defined as the historic Land of Israel (roughly corresponding to Canaan, the Holy Land, or the region of Palestine).[1][2][3][4] Modern Zionism emerged in the late 19th century in Central and Eastern Europe as a national revival movement, both in reaction to newer waves of antisemitism and as an imitative response to other nationalist movements.[5][6][7] Soon after this, most leaders of the movement associated the main goal with creating the desired state in Palestine, then an area controlled by the Ottoman Empire.[8][9][10]

Until 1948, the primary goals of Zionism were the re-establishment of Jewish sovereignty in the Land of Israel, ingathering of the exiles, and liberation of Jews from the antisemitic discrimination and persecution that they experienced during their diaspora. Since the establishment of the State of Israel in 1948, Zionism continues primarily to advocate on behalf of Israel and to address threats to its continued existence and security.
Zionism - Wikipedia



There never was a nation/state called Israel before 1947ad.

Coincidently, it started as a response to Arab pogroms throughout the middle east, specifically as a response to expulsion of Jews from all of their holy cities in Israel

There never was a nation/state called Israel before 1947ad.

The only place where the Jews lived for an extended time was in Egypt. Before living in Egypt the Jews were sheep herder's who lived on the open plains and never had a county/state of their own.

and the devastating waves of violence caused by the Damascus blood libel.

Damascus is a city in Syria and has nothing to do with Palestine.
Damascus - New World Encyclopedia

Damascus, the oldest continuously inhabited city in the world
Damascus is the capital of Syria and one of the most ancient cities in the world. Controversial explanations have been made to guess etymological origin of the name of the Syrian capital city. Some hold that “damashaq” means the fast-moving camel... Read article
Welcome to Old Damascus

The truth will set you free, my friend -

 

[watchingfromafar]

A homeland for the Jewish people is an idea rooted in Jewish culture and religion. In the early 19th century, the Napoleonic Wars led to the idea of Jewish emancipation.[1] This unleashed a number of religious and secular cultural streams and political philosophies among the Jews in Europe, covering everything from Marxism to Chassidism. Among these movements was Zionism as promoted by Theodore Herzl.[2] In the late 19th century, Herzl set out his vision of a Jewish state and homeland for the Jewish people in his book Der Judenstaat. Herzl was later hailed by the Zionist political parties as the founding father of the State of Israel.[3][4][5]

 

[Sixties Fan]

Zionism is support for the Jewish nation's independence in Israel, the basis and common denominator..

Zionism (Hebrew: צִיּוֹנוּת‬ Tsiyyonut [t͡sijo̞ˈnut] after Zion) is the national movement of the Jewish people that supports the re-establishment of a Jewish homeland in the territory defined as the historic Land of Israel (roughly corresponding to Canaan, the Holy Land, or the region of Palestine).[1][2][3][4] Modern Zionism emerged in the late 19th century in Central and Eastern Europe as a national revival movement, both in reaction to newer waves of antisemitism and as an imitative response to other nationalist movements.[5][6][7] Soon after this, most leaders of the movement associated the main goal with creating the desired state in Palestine, then an area controlled by the Ottoman Empire.[8][9][10]

Until 1948, the primary goals of Zionism were the re-establishment of Jewish sovereignty in the Land of Israel, ingathering of the exiles, and liberation of Jews from the antisemitic discrimination and persecution that they experienced during their diaspora. Since the establishment of the State of Israel in 1948, Zionism continues primarily to advocate on behalf of Israel and to address threats to its continued existence and security.
Zionism - Wikipedia



There never was a nation/state called Israel before 1947ad.

Coincidently, it started as a response to Arab pogroms throughout the middle east, specifically as a response to expulsion of Jews from all of their holy cities in Israel

There never was a nation/state called Israel before 1947ad.

The only place where the Jews lived for an extended time was in Egypt. Before living in Egypt the Jews were sheep herder's who lived on the open plains and never had a county/state of their own.

and the devastating waves of violence caused by the Damascus blood libel.

Damascus is a city in Syria and has nothing to do with Palestine.
Damascus - New World Encyclopedia

Damascus, the oldest continuously inhabited city in the world
Damascus is the capital of Syria and one of the most ancient cities in the world. Controversial explanations have been made to guess etymological origin of the name of the Syrian capital city. Some hold that “damashaq” means the fast-moving camel... Read article
Welcome to Old Damascus

The truth will set you free, my friend -

The truth hits you over the head every day and you are not happy with it.

You are trying to wipe out 3000 years of a Nation called Israel which existed for over 1000 years, even if some of its name was sometimes changed, or what was left of it was Judea.

You do not care what Zionism is, when it started, etc, etc.
No Jewish history is history to you.

To you the Jewish people HAVE NO HISTORY.

Which is why you take the Damascus Affair, and turn it into Non history. It never happened.

We do not care if you like Jews, Israel and Zionism, and which Christian or Muslim fairy tales turned you into the person you are, who does nothing but deny and delegitimize Jews and dehumanize them out of their historical and legal right to live in their ancient land and be sovereign of their destiny.


Go and deal with your hate issues......or not.

Am Israel Chai

The People of Israel Live

 

[rylah]

Zionism is support for the Jewish nation's independence in Israel, the basis and common denominator..

Zionism (Hebrew: צִיּוֹנוּת‬ Tsiyyonut [t͡sijo̞ˈnut] after Zion) is the national movement of the Jewish people that supports the re-establishment of a Jewish homeland in the territory defined as the historic Land of Israel (roughly corresponding to Canaan, the Holy Land, or the region of Palestine).[1][2][3][4] Modern Zionism emerged in the late 19th century in Central and Eastern Europe as a national revival movement, both in reaction to newer waves of antisemitism and as an imitative response to other nationalist movements.[5][6][7] Soon after this, most leaders of the movement associated the main goal with creating the desired state in Palestine, then an area controlled by the Ottoman Empire.[8][9][10]

Until 1948, the primary goals of Zionism were the re-establishment of Jewish sovereignty in the Land of Israel, ingathering of the exiles, and liberation of Jews from the antisemitic discrimination and persecution that they experienced during their diaspora. Since the establishment of the State of Israel in 1948, Zionism continues primarily to advocate on behalf of Israel and to address threats to its continued existence and security.
Zionism - Wikipedia



There never was a nation/state called Israel before 1947ad.

Coincidently, it started as a response to Arab pogroms throughout the middle east, specifically as a response to expulsion of Jews from all of their holy cities in Israel

There never was a nation/state called Israel before 1947ad.

The only place where the Jews lived for an extended time was in Egypt. Before living in Egypt the Jews were sheep herder's who lived on the open plains and never had a county/state of their own.

and the devastating waves of violence caused by the Damascus blood libel.

Damascus is a city in Syria and has nothing to do with Palestine.
Damascus - New World Encyclopedia

Damascus, the oldest continuously inhabited city in the world
Damascus is the capital of Syria and one of the most ancient cities in the world. Controversial explanations have been made to guess etymological origin of the name of the Syrian capital city. Some hold that “damashaq” means the fast-moving camel... Read article
Welcome to Old Damascus

The truth will set you free, my friend -

Sometimes it looks You look for the most self defeating arguments.

There definitely was a state called Israel and a living nation that never ceased to exist, for someone to quote from the Bible and in the same breath say this is utterly ridiculous. It looks no less ridiculous when You quote from a source that specifically refers to "re-constitution".

Palestine was called Southern Syria, if You don't know such basic facts, go cure Your ignorance, then talk about truth.

 

[rylah]

A homeland for the Jewish people is an idea rooted in Jewish culture and religion. In the early 19th century, the Napoleonic Wars led to the idea of Jewish emancipation.[1] This unleashed a number of religious and secular cultural streams and political philosophies among the Jews in Europe, covering everything from Marxism to Chassidism. Among these movements was Zionism as promoted by Theodore Herzl.[2] In the late 19th century, Herzl set out his vision of a Jewish state and homeland for the Jewish people in his book Der Judenstaat. Herzl was later hailed by the Zionist political parties as the founding father of the State of Israel.[3][4][5]

Modern Zionism didn't start with Hertzl, he was born 20 years after the liberation movement started:

Theodor Herzl's paternal grandfather, Simon Loeb Herzl, reportedly attended Alkalai's synagogue in Semlin and the two frequently visited. Grandfather Simon Loeb Herzl "had his hands on" one of the first copies of Alkalai's 1857 work prescribing the "return of the Jews to the Holy Land and renewed glory of Jerusalem." Contemporary scholars conclude that Herzl's own implementation of modern Zionism was undoubtedly influenced by that relationship.[5]

Judah Alkalai - Wikipedia

BTW Rabbi Alklai wasn't the first modern Zionist either, those were the people who actually lived in the land and built new neighborhoods in Jerusalem.

 

[USAF 2023]

A homeland for the Jewish people is an idea rooted in Jewish culture and religion. In the early 19th century, the Napoleonic Wars led to the idea of Jewish emancipation.[1] This unleashed a number of religious and secular cultural streams and political philosophies among the Jews in Europe, covering everything from Marxism to Chassidism. Among these movements was Zionism as promoted by Theodore Herzl.[2] In the late 19th century, Herzl set out his vision of a Jewish state and homeland for the Jewish people in his book Der Judenstaat. Herzl was later hailed by the Zionist political parties as the founding father of the State of Israel.[3][4][5]

Modern Zionism didn't start with Hertzl, he was born 20 years after the liberation movement started:

Theodor Herzl's paternal grandfather, Simon Loeb Herzl, reportedly attended Alkalai's synagogue in Semlin and the two frequently visited. Grandfather Simon Loeb Herzl "had his hands on" one of the first copies of Alkalai's 1857 work prescribing the "return of the Jews to the Holy Land and renewed glory of Jerusalem." Contemporary scholars conclude that Herzl's own implementation of modern Zionism was undoubtedly influenced by that relationship.[5]

Judah Alkalai - Wikipedia

Why are you debating with ignorance, hate and stupidity?

 

[rylah]

A homeland for the Jewish people is an idea rooted in Jewish culture and religion. In the early 19th century, the Napoleonic Wars led to the idea of Jewish emancipation.[1] This unleashed a number of religious and secular cultural streams and political philosophies among the Jews in Europe, covering everything from Marxism to Chassidism. Among these movements was Zionism as promoted by Theodore Herzl.[2] In the late 19th century, Herzl set out his vision of a Jewish state and homeland for the Jewish people in his book Der Judenstaat. Herzl was later hailed by the Zionist political parties as the founding father of the State of Israel.[3][4][5]

Modern Zionism didn't start with Hertzl, he was born 20 years after the liberation movement started:

Theodor Herzl's paternal grandfather, Simon Loeb Herzl, reportedly attended Alkalai's synagogue in Semlin and the two frequently visited. Grandfather Simon Loeb Herzl "had his hands on" one of the first copies of Alkalai's 1857 work prescribing the "return of the Jews to the Holy Land and renewed glory of Jerusalem." Contemporary scholars conclude that Herzl's own implementation of modern Zionism was undoubtedly influenced by that relationship.[5]

Judah Alkalai - Wikipedia

Why are you debating with ignorance, hate and stupidity?

Because it's me and my family he's attacking, we need to care about each other.
Geula Cohen once said "I'm almost 4000 years old as my people, 56 years old as my country today. I'm 77 years old by biological age, and 18 in spirit of the struggle of my people".

If Israelis keep silent prepare Your bunker, the laws of nature have been just abolished.

 

[Shusha]

Zionism ... is the national movement of the Jewish people that supports the re-establishment of a Jewish homeland in the territory defined as the historic Land of Israel ... (it arose) as a national revival movement, both in reaction to newer waves of antisemitism and as an imitative response to other nationalist movements...

Until 1948, the primary goals of Zionism were the re-establishment of Jewish sovereignty in the Land of Israel, ingathering of the exiles, and liberation of Jews from the antisemitic discrimination and persecution that they experienced during their diaspora. Since the establishment of the State of Israel in 1948, Zionism continues primarily to advocate on behalf of Israel and to address threats to its continued existence and security.

And you support all this, right?

 

[Shusha]

There never was a nation/state called Israel before 1947ad.

Not true. Demonstrably, patently not true.

But, even if if WAS true, what difference does it make? Are only nation/states which were historically nation/states permitted to be nation/states? And only if the nation/state was called by the same name?

 

[watchingfromafar]

You are trying to wipe out 3000 years of a Nation called Israel which existed for over 1000 years

The State of Israel was created in 1947ad

even if some of its name was sometimes changed, or what was left of it was Judea.

"sometimes changed".,.,.,.,.lol

You do not care what Zionism is, when it started, etc, etc.

Finally we have something we can agree on.

No Jewish history is history to you.

I'm Jewish by birth but not by faith

To you the Jewish people HAVE NO HISTORY

.

I know Jewish history, you make it up on the fly
(Gen 42:25 KJV) Then Joseph commanded to fill their sacks with corn, and to restore every man's money into his sack, and to give them provision for the way:

(Gen 45:20 KJV) Also regard not your stuff; for the good of all the land of Egypt is yours.

(Gen 45:21 KJV) And the children of Israel did so: and Joseph gave them wagons, according to the commandment of Pharaoh, and gave them provision for the way.

(Gen 47:1 KJV) Then Joseph came and told Pharaoh, and said, My father [ISRAEL] and my brethren, and their flocks, and their herds, and all that they have, are come out of the land of Canaan; and, behold, they are in the land of Goshen.

(Gen 47:3 KJV) And Pharaoh said unto his brethren, What is your occupation? And they said unto Pharaoh, Thy servants are shepherds, both we, and also our fathers.

Based on the above the “Promised Land” is not the land the Jews are occupying today. In biblical verse terms the Jews were nomads who were wanderers living off of the land grazing their sheep on the open plains.

.Which is why you take the Damascus Affair, and turn it into Non history. It never happened.

You brought up Damascus, I just responded to your false representation of Damascus

We do not care if you like Jews, Israel and Zionism

Who is "we" my sweet-?
btw: I don't care what you like or dislike. In fact, I don't care one way or the other; period; it is a waste of brain width

Christian or Muslim fairy tales turned you into the person you are

Oh I see, you are not Christian and you are not a Muslim then you are a Jew who has never lived in "Israel" and do not even intend to visit your supposed homeland.

Oh, so sad, so very, very sad indeed

who does nothing but deny and delegitimize Jews and dehumanize them out of their historical and legal right to live in their ancient land

I will say this once again. The land now called Israel is NOT the Jewish homeland.

Promised Land
“Moses went up Mount Nebo to the top of Pisgah, looked over the promised land of Israel spread out before him, and died, at the age of one hundred and twenty, according to Talmudic legend on 7 Adar, his 120th birthday exactly.

Moab is the historical name for a mountainous strip of land in modern-day Jordan running along the eastern shore of the Dead Sea. In ancient times, it was home to the kingdom of the Moabites, a people often in conflict with their Israelite neighbors to the west.

The Moabites were a historical people, whose existence is attested to by numerous archeological findings, most notably the Mesha Stele, which describes the Moabite victory over an unnamed son of King Omri of Israel. Their capital was Dibon, located next to the modern Jordanian town of Dhiban.”
Moab - New World Encyclopedia

The People of Israel Live

Sixties Fan, back to you; the truth hits you over the head every day and you are not happy with it; such is life, you can either live with it or not or you can change your ways & leave the hate behind

-