Who is responsible for YOU?

[sealybobo]

This is one of those bullshit Fox News questions that avoids the facts and rallies the ignorant behind the idea that yes, we all wasted a lot of money over the last 20 years.

Fine, we suck. You Republcians are right. It is all our fault. We wanted too much. We were greedy and arrogant and lazy. And Corporations should be able to pit us against 3rd world labor, if it means lower costs to the consumer.

But remember, 2/3's of GDP is consumer spending, you stupid idiots.

 

[BrianH]

This is one of those bullshit Fox News questions that avoids the facts and rallies the ignorant behind the idea that yes, we all wasted a lot of money over the last 20 years.

Fine, we suck. You Republcians are right. It is all our fault. We wanted too much. We were greedy and arrogant and lazy. And Corporations should be able to pit us against 3rd world labor, if it means lower costs to the consumer.

But remember, 2/3's of GDP is consumer spending, you stupid idiots.

But you're assuming the consumers will spend.

 

[BrianH]

Life ain't about nice... life is full of slaps in the face and doses of reality

I know, yet another reason why certain welfare systems - just like the Swedish one - are a welcome break in the never-ending shit cycle... at least after 9 years in US where I paid my way through school and worked most of the time 40 hrs a week while taking 12 credit hours at the University...



At the expense of others? Have you ever read anything of the Swedish welfare state? The famous middle way? Do you know anything of how it works and how its main financier - the tax system - works? Everyone - every single one - living and working in Sweden pays exuberant (not only by US standard) amounts of money into the tax system (sometimes reaching over 50% or the income tax, but hardly anything on the capital tax - which is one of the lowest in the world and way lower than in the US - smart move on the part of Sweden if ya ask me) and EVERYONE gets THE SAME 'entitlements'. Examples? Education, child-care, unemployment benefits, disability benefits, generous maternity leave, health-care... might be forgetting something. Yeah, so maybe Swedes maintain this welfare system out of purely egotistic concerns... hardly any crime, hardly any homelessness...great education system... pretty much one of the highest quality of life in the world (what was it - second in the world?) Yet, they maintain some of the most competitive and inventive economic systems as well... I'm sure you've heard of IKEA, H&M, Saab, Skanska, etc...

You may think that a mom that still takes care of every last thing for her 30 year old son living in her basement is "giving two shits"... .in actuality it is truly control and it is pitiful... truly "giving two shits" would be allowing people to be responsible for themselves

I'm sorry you feel this way... That just makes me glad I don't share your sad view of the world... If everyone felt like you, this would certainly be one miserable world... Fortunately, it's not so. I'm sure you can find proof of that in your everyday life... the question is whether you invite it or push it away...

Am I a disgusting optimist/idealist? Be glad I am. The cynical, anomie-ridden attitude towards life won't get anyone anywhere and will fuck it up for the rest of us as well...

PS: Man, I talk too much! Ok, nap time before going out on the Stockholm town!

Yeah, Sweden probably does have a social country that works right...from my readings. I have to ask you, what's the population of Sweden? Then I ask you, what's the population of the United States? Big difference isn't it? At around 9.2 million, I find it a little naive that you can even compare the 2 countries. Makes all the difference in the world in success, or not.
Yeah, I think you do talk too much. Your a socialist, and you were brought up that way, you know nothing else, I get it. Unlike you, I've grown up to take care of myself, and not have government intervention like your Sweden. Mark my words, you have less liberties than we do in the United States. So don't go knocking it until you tried it.. Enjoy your Stockholm, I bet it's a nice place to visit, but wouldn't want to live there.

And our 300,000,000 is not counting the millions of illegals living off this society as well....

 

[Neser Boha]

Yeah, Sweden probably does have a social country that works right...from my readings. I have to ask you, what's the population of Sweden? Then I ask you, what's the population of the United States? Big difference isn't it? At around 9.2 million, I find it a little naive that you can even compare the 2 countries. Makes all the difference in the world in success, or not.
Yeah, I think you do talk too much. Your a socialist, and you were brought up that way, you know nothing else, I get it. Unlike you, I've grown up to take care of myself, and not have government intervention like your Sweden. Mark my words, you have less liberties than we do in the United States. So don't go knocking it until you tried it.. Enjoy your Stockholm, I bet it's a nice place to visit, but wouldn't want to live there.

I agree with the first part of your post - all the way until 'big difference isn't it?' Then it gets worse.... I think you havent' exactly followed my discussion with what's his face who attacked me for having a favorable view of the Swedish welfare system, that was number one. Number two, the rest of your post sounds just like a rant of any other ignorant person. I bet you've never even lived in any other country - how can you speak on the subject then? I lived in the USA - Atlanta, GA, to be specific - for 9 long years. AND! I supported myself ever since I moved out of my mother's house at the age of 18... so you can kiss my ass - paid my way through University and paid off two (very used) cars... I know the US system - I know everything there is to know about living life in the US. So please, do me a favor and not only visit Sweden, but live here and then tell me your opinion, because only then it will be worth shit....

Fuck...."less liberties"... where the hell did you pull that crap out of? Why don't you cite an academic article or a reliable source for that, huh? Some people just like to talk shit for the sake of talking... effin' annoying.

To myself: Why the hell did I grace this shit with a freakin' reply?

 

[Neser Boha]

And our 300,000,000 is not counting the millions of illegals living off this society as well....

You mean, using your high-quality public high-schools? (an oxymoron) Because that is about the only thing that I know of that illegal immigrants can actually take advantage of... For everything else (in other words- to take advantage of the empty, mismanaged, and ineffectual shell of a welfare system the US has) one needs a social security card and you ain't getting one unless you have the 'white card' that one gets when they arrive to the US WITH A VISA and a bunch of other paperwork - therefore NOT ILLEGAL.

I would also argue that whatever costs illegal immigration incurs it is paid back many times over.... they work, they earn, and they spend. Actually, not that long ago I saw statistics showing that US is the only country whose immigrants have lower unemployment rate than its citizens. I'll dig it up tomorrow... now I'm too freaking sleepy...

 

[Meister]

Yeah, Sweden probably does have a social country that works right...from my readings. I have to ask you, what's the population of Sweden? Then I ask you, what's the population of the United States? Big difference isn't it? At around 9.2 million, I find it a little naive that you can even compare the 2 countries. Makes all the difference in the world in success, or not.
Yeah, I think you do talk too much. Your a socialist, and you were brought up that way, you know nothing else, I get it. Unlike you, I've grown up to take care of myself, and not have government intervention like your Sweden. Mark my words, you have less liberties than we do in the United States. So don't go knocking it until you tried it.. Enjoy your Stockholm, I bet it's a nice place to visit, but wouldn't want to live there.

I agree with the first part of your post - all the way until 'big difference isn't it?' Then it gets worse.... I think you havent' exactly followed my discussion with what's his face who attacked me for having a favorable view of the Swedish welfare system, that was number one. Number two, the rest of your post sounds just like a rant of any other ignorant person. I bet you've never even lived in any other country - how can you speak on the subject then? I lived in the USA - Atlanta, GA, to be specific - for 9 long years. AND! I supported myself ever since I moved out of my mother's house at the age of 18... so you can kiss my ass - paid my way through University and paid off two (very used) cars... I know the US system - I know everything there is to know about living life in the US. So please, do me a favor and not only visit Sweden, but live here and then tell me your opinion, because only then it will be worth shit....

Fuck...."less liberties"... where the hell did you pull that crap out of? Why don't you cite an academic article or a reliable source for that, huh? Some people just like to talk shit for the sake of talking... effin' annoying.

To myself: Why the hell did I grace this shit with a freakin' reply?

I did read the posts from "what's his name", his name is "Dave"..OK??? For the love of God, at least give respect by giving the man's name!!
I think there isn't a majority of socialists in the United States, and the point he was trying to get through to your meaningless socialist mind, we don't need a nanny state over here like what you live with in Sweden. The point I was trying to get across to your meaningless mind is that it wouldn't work as smoothly over here as in Sweden. Most of us don't want all the handouts from our government. There is a price to pay for it. You have a small little country that doesn't have near the dynamics that our country has. I don't want to seem trite....but....
Glad you moved from mommy's house but your still paying 50% income tax to your government. Most of us feel that's an absurd amount which would put us probably in a 2 class society. We're not ready for that part of your socialism. I will pay for my own healthcare, and my own child care. Geeze, what a nanny state....
Why would I ever want to live in another country, when this country is far and away better than any other country? Especially one that has roughly 9.2 million people??? So please, keep your condescending ass over there, and I will stay here. Wouldn't want to visit your socialist country. Now I have had 2 posts to you that were civil and the one you had to me was nothing but your foul mouth. You should be proud that you communicate on that level...real proud.

PS welcome to the forum

 

[Meister]

And our 300,000,000 is not counting the millions of illegals living off this society as well....

You mean, using your high-quality public high-schools? (an oxymoron) Because that is about the only thing that I know of that illegal immigrants can actually take advantage of... For everything else (in other words- to take advantage of the empty, mismanaged, and ineffectual shell of a welfare system the US has) one needs a social security card and you ain't getting one unless you have the 'white card' that one gets when they arrive to the US WITH A VISA and a bunch of other paperwork - therefore NOT ILLEGAL.

I would also argue that whatever costs illegal immigration incurs it is paid back many times over.... they work, they earn, and they spend. Actually, not that long ago I saw statistics showing that US is the only country whose immigrants have lower unemployment rate than its citizens. I'll dig it up tomorrow... now I'm too freaking sleepy...

I'm only going to say that you are naive. I'm going to let your post speak for itself.

 

[gardenbee]

People are responsiable for themselves to start with, but they offer some of this power to the government. After which it is a joint effort.

 

[Yukon]

Why do Republicans despise immigrants (men and women), and Freedom of Choice (for women), and a secular school system (for children)? Pray tell..................

 

[BrianH]

And our 300,000,000 is not counting the millions of illegals living off this society as well....

You mean, using your high-quality public high-schools? (an oxymoron) Because that is about the only thing that I know of that illegal immigrants can actually take advantage of... For everything else (in other words- to take advantage of the empty, mismanaged, and ineffectual shell of a welfare system the US has) one needs a social security card and you ain't getting one unless you have the 'white card' that one gets when they arrive to the US WITH A VISA and a bunch of other paperwork - therefore NOT ILLEGAL.

I would also argue that whatever costs illegal immigration incurs it is paid back many times over.... they work, they earn, and they spend. Actually, not that long ago I saw statistics showing that US is the only country whose immigrants have lower unemployment rate than its citizens. I'll dig it up tomorrow... now I'm too freaking sleepy...

Wow, you sure took that one for a run...

I simply meant that people come here, earn money, and send it out of the country back to their families. So we loose circulation of money here in the U.S. It's comparable to the situation when the Soviet Union collapsed an all of a sudden, Germany dealt with the massive influx of population when Berlin consolidated. The country is left to support a large quantity of people who weren't there before....believe it or not, it is a strain on an economy.

 

[BrianH]

Why do Republicans despise immigrants (men and women), and Freedom of Choice (for women), and a secular school system (for children)? Pray tell..................

No one is despising immigrants dumbass. What I do despise, are people like yourself who would rather have anarchy. What I do despise, is ILLEGAL immigrants who come here ILLEGALLY. If they want to come work, or live here, that's fine; but do it legally. It's easy for you to sit up there in Canada and talk about liking or disliking immigration, because you don't live with it every day. I live in South Texas and see the good and bad. I see the good when someone does it the right way and comes here legally. I also see the bad side of it...and you can only imagine what that is. It's the same as choosing to steal something or buy it. One way is legal, and the other way is not.

We don't come to Canada and break your laws, nor do we come to Canada and bitch about your laws.

 

[Neser Boha]

Yeah, illegal immigration is a problem, however, what sucks the most is that illegal immigrants are usually the ones with the worst living conditions in their home-countries, therefore, are in a bigger need of emigrating into the US... Of course US and all the other countries should protect themselves against influx of illegals... I just feel bad for them - the illegals - because most of them really had a hard life wherever they come from... I don't want to sound like I support illegal immigration because I don't.... thought I should clear that up.

 

[editec]

This is where I tell you you are debating against a straw man

Nobody has EVER said that effort has little or nothing to do with it, and you know it.

Again you have stated it quite clearly that is EXACLTY what you think.

Now, you're just being obtuse.

 

[Yukon]

Brian,

Only China executes more people annually than does Texas. "Illegal" is a paradox in Texas.

 

[Meister]

Brian,

Only China executes more people annually than does Texas. "Illegal" is a paradox in Texas.

Yukon, got back and look at the topic of this thread. Where did you pull this post out of???
Paradox?? by all means, explain.

 

[editec]

To myself: Why the hell did I grace this shit with a freakin' reply?

You do so, Neser, because it is the obligation of those who understand the true nature of a problem, to help those who do not understand it, to get it.

Its really a form of enlightened self interest to assist the clueless if one shares citizenship duties in a representational form of government.

When one encounters intractable ignorance coupled with anti-intellectual malice, it is sometimes difficult not to want to just strangle them, and be done with it, but apparently it is STILL illegal to mercy-kill the terminally stupid.

 

[Bern80]

This is where I tell you you are debating against a straw man

Nobody has EVER said that effort has little or nothing to do with it, and you know it.

Again you have stated it quite clearly that is EXACLTY what you think.

Now, you're just being obtuse.

After all I wrote that's all you got? It has been quit clear in your postings that you believes one's future and opportunities is mostly determined by fate. Is that an inaccurrate assumption. How about you try a more complete response to that post.

 

[Meister]

To myself: Why the hell did I grace this shit with a freakin' reply?

You do so, Neser, because it is the obligation of those who understand the true nature of a problem, to help those who do not understand it, to get it.

Its really a form of enlightened self interest to assist the clueless if one shares citizenship duties in a representational form of government.

When one encounters intractable ignorance coupled with anti-intellectual malice, it is sometimes difficult not to want to just strangle them, and be done with it, but apparently it is STILL illegal to mercy-kill the terminally stupid.

Nice try...but I do expect nothing less from the left. If anything the clueless lies on the left. Maybe that's why they need the help from the government more than it gives now. Self sufficient, is a term that whizzes right over your head. Terminally stupid??? That comes from a person who needs the government to caudle them. Not from someone who doesn't need the nanny state.

 

[BrianH]

Brian,

Only China executes more people annually than does Texas. "Illegal" is a paradox in Texas.

You're nuttier than squirrel turds.

 

[sealybobo]

Yourself, or government?

I saw a great PBS documentary on the riots in the 60's. Until WW2, 85% of the blacks lived in the south, farming.

So America needed them in the factories so they migrated to places like Chicago, Detroit & California and they enjoyed decades of prosperity.

And then the work dried up, and thats what led to the riots and the gangs.

Are you getting the point yet? Who is responsible for the prosperity that occured? The government & corporations that offered jobs. The people just took advantage of what was available.

Now who was responsible when the jobs went away and crime/poverty increased?

So where do you suggest all those people in Compton & Watts go to find work? Where do you live? Would you be ok if thousands of them moved to your neighborhood? Would they have equal opportunity like you have, or would they be discriminated against?

So the economic conditions of WW2 showed that black/poor people, if given the chance, will make a good life for themselves, no different than you or I. And crime will go down.

And we shifted from manufacturing to service, which paid less and blacks were not trained to do. Sound familiar?

If you take away jobs, you'll see poverty and crime go up. Who's to blame? Who sent all the jobs overseas?

You better expect riots in the future. With these economic conditions, expect trouble. So I hope it is worth the corporate profits. When people can not find work, they get desperate.

And you don't think that will affect where you live? Is that all you care about?

So just think about yourself. If you can't find work and you lose your home, who's responsible for that? Wouldn't it depend on why you can't find work?

Just like suicide bombers. Do you think they wouldn't prefer a nice job so they can raise their families? They are desperate.

And it is clear you have never been desperate. It is also clear that you don't understand who is responsible for this lousy economy. It certainly isn't the poor people. They are the victims.

And if things get much worse, you could become one yourself.