Who Made Isis?

[Antares]

I always loved that song. sometimes a link is so much better than a response to an idiotic post.

You feel the the 12th Imam will be here soon?

I don't watch Saudi networks like FOX NEWS so I am not familiar with their latest circus plots

Then WHO is going to set the "region" and the "World" free?

 

[1776]

AQI was pushed out of Iraq thanks to the US and Iraq militaries.

When the Syria civil war broke out ISIL formed out of being their own group outside the control of AQSL back in Pakistan. AQSL didn't like their methods and power grab in Syria so the two groups broke apart.

ISIL renamed parts of their group when they went back to Iraq thanks to Obama doing nothing in Syria and leaving a big ass open door for them to invade Iraq with the US military gone from Iraq.

So Barrack Insane Obama is the one to blame for this fucking mess.

 

[frigidweirdo]

Native Americans were warring and killing each other. They don't get a pass.

As far as Islam, they, ISIS, are trying to restore their caliphate. This is who they are. Read the koran. It states that they must kill the infidel or other non converts. There is nothing difficult to understand of their intentions. Mohammed preached the sword while Jesus taught peace. Again, this isn't difficult to understand.

Seems that if people fight among themselves then it's okay to commit genocide against them, huh? I guess it makes it easier for people to sleep at night then. I wonder how the Nazis slept at night, oh, well the Jews sometimes kill each other, so it's okay then, zzzzz.

Also, what is preached and what is written are not the same thing.

http://www.mechon-mamre.org/p/pt/pt0520.htm#16
"13 And when the LORD thy God delivereth it into thy hand, thou shalt smite every male thereof with the edge of the sword;
14 but the women, and the little ones, and the cattle, and all that is in the city, even all the spoil thereof, shalt thou take for a prey unto thyself; and thou shalt eat the spoil of thine enemies, which the LORD thy God hath given thee."

"16 Howbeit of the cities of these peoples, that the LORD thy God giveth thee for an inheritance, thou shalt save alive nothing that breatheth,
17 but thou shalt utterly destroy them: the Hittite, and the Amorite, the Canaanite, and the Perizzite, the Hivite, and the Jebusite; as the LORD thy God hath commanded thee;
18 that they teach you not to do after all their abominations, which they have done unto their gods, and so ye sin against the LORD your God."

Oh, well, let's teach this, that you should kill all the male enemies, take the women for your own because, hey God told you to. This is an example, but it's still besides the point.

The point is, if Jesus preached peace, as you say, then how is it possible that Christianity has been one of the most brutal religions in the history of this world?

Take the Conquistadores of the Spanish in the Americas, or the British in the Americas, Africa, Asia and Australasia. Deeply religious people going around the world killing. Look at saints, many of them were killers.

You might have a religion which has a religious book that says stuff, it doesn't matter, it's how people interpret this. Now, in times when they feel under threat, they're going to be far more aggressive than when they're not. And they must feel under threat because, hell, they're a lot to be worried about, usually the USA invading. Why do you think Iran wants nukes? To stop the US thinking it can invade. Why does the US want to stop Iran getting nukes? So it can invade if it feels like it.

 

[Meathead]

Take the Conquistadores of the Spanish in the Americas, or the British in the Americas, Africa, Asia and Australasia. Deeply religious people going around the world killing. Look at saints, many of them were killers.

It is said of the Conquistadors that they went to the America's for "gold, glory and God", in that order.

You know squat about history.

 

[frigidweirdo]

What a disappointment.

You show promise but you submerge it in the common dogma of the day, oh well.

I figured you for more than the run of the mill conspiracy type,my mistake.
Islam is the enemy of the modern world, NOT because they are "angry" at it/us but because it is completely at odds with it/us.
Our way of life, our culture, our basically "free" society.

Very simply,we are antithetical to their way of life, that's it.
There is no mystery, no grand scheme, no hidden conspiracy.

Sorry to disappoint, but I don't tend to make stuff up just for your enjoyment.

I don't like Islam. People somehow think I'm defending Islam. I'm not. I'm pointing out the reality of the situation, and I'm sorry you think this is "the common dogma of the day", but I don't make these comments out of nothing.

However I don't believe Islam is one set thing. There are plenty of Muslims in this world who live peacefully. I have a Chinese Muslim friend, most Chinese Muslims are peaceful, those who aren't are unfortunate in they live in an area which is not traditionally Chinese, but the Chinese want the resources, and they're turning to al-Qaeda type groups to help them in their fight with the Chinese because they have nowhere else to turn.
The Tibetans just get trampled on, the Muslims at least fight back.
In southern Africa there are plenty of peaceful Muslims.

But a history of Islam isn't one of just violence. But in the last 200 years, especially in the Middle East, it's a story of the west, generally Britain and France, coming in and doing what they like. Had the Ottoman Empire remained strong, then Islam would probably be very different today than it is.

But to be honest, I see a lot of people talking a lot of carp about Islam, they just believe what they're force fed by those who have an interest in making sure Islam remains the common enemy. The fear is used to keep us down, it's used to promote the right being tough on them and so on and on and on.

It's no conspiracy, it's quite clear this happens.

Look at the difference in speeches by Obama and Bush. Now, many will say Obama's not being tough, well exactly, Obama doesn't do the whole "we'll be tough on them" carp that the right will use.
Bush used key words to keep people down "War on Terror", when was the last time you heard a Democrat use these words?


Look at spending on the military.

Bush increase military spending far beyond Cold War spending as a % of GDP. It had been below average for the whole time the Cold War had finished, up to the point where Bush could squeeze money out of them.

Defense OpenSecrets

Funny how the amount of money being spent on the military sees the amount of money being given to political parties by defence contractors goes up. Let's look at the biggest, Lockheed Martin.

Four of the top five recipients are Republicans, the top three are from Texas. The fifth just happens to be on the sub committee for defence, About 4/5th of their money goes to Republicans. This is with a Democratic President and Senate.

Is this a conspiracy? Not really. The money isn't the best from defence, but the Republicans get it and the Democrats don't. Why?

 

[frigidweirdo]

Take the Conquistadores of the Spanish in the Americas, or the British in the Americas, Africa, Asia and Australasia. Deeply religious people going around the world killing. Look at saints, many of them were killers.

It is said of the Conquistadors that they went to the America's for "gold, glory and God", in that order.

You know squat about history.

Well I know enough that they were deeply religious and they killed hundreds of thousands. What else I know seems to not be needed here. You say I know nothing, but say they went for God. So, God told them to kill?

I also know that some in Spain kicked up a bit of a fuss at what Pizarro was up to, and the others, Hernan Cortes etc, but still, not much happened. It was clear, at the time, that going around committing genocide wasn't considered the normal thing to do, it was considered bad, but it still happened, still happened in the name of God.

So before you start getting all arrogant, make sure you actually have a bit of an argument.

 

[Flopper]

Why don't you research what Jefferson thought about Islam in the late 1700's.

My point is you simply choose to believe a revisionist version of Islamic History no ore, no less.

"A few years later, in 1786, the new United States found that it was having to deal very directly with the tenets of the Muslim religion"


"That this might not be so easy was discovered by Jefferson and John Adams when they went to call on Tripoli's envoy to London, Ambassador Sidi Haji Abdrahaman. They asked him by what right he extorted money and took slaves in this way. As Jefferson later reported to Secretary of State John Jay, and to the Congress:"

"The ambassador answered us that [the right] was founded on the Laws of the Prophet, that it was written in their Koran, that all nations who should not have answered their authority were sinners, that it was their right and duty to make war upon them wherever they could be found, and to make slaves of all they could take as prisoners, and that every Mussulman who should be slain in battle was sure to go to Paradise."

What Jefferson really thought about Islam.

Tell me again how it is ALL our fault.

I didn't say I liked Islam. I don't. In fact I don't particularly like religion at all. That's not the point. Christianity in Jefferson's time? Jeez, they were wiping out the Native Americans all up and down the continent (or are they two continents?), taking part in the largest slave trade ever, going into Africa, Asia, Australasia and doing whatever the hell they liked. I hardly think Jefferson could criticise Islam.

George Washington

"I would recommend, that some post in the center of the Indian Country, should be occupied with all expedition, with a sufficient quantity of provisions whence parties should be detached to lay waste all the settlements around, with instructions to do it in the most effectual manner, that the country may not be merely overrun, but destroyed.
But you will not by any means listen to any overture of peace before the total ruinment of their settlements is effected."

George Washington Letter Describes Killing of Natives as Villainy - ICTMN.com

"His anti-Indian sentiments were again made clear in 1783 when he compared Indians with wolves, saying “Both being beast of prey, tho’ they differ in shape.” After a defeat, Washington’s troops would skin the bodies of Iroquois from the hips down to make boot tops or leggings. Those who survived called the first president, “Town Destroyer.” Within a five-year period, 28 of 30 Seneca towns had been destroyed."

Good old Christians. Never hurt anyone they didn't.

The 17th and 18th century were so different than today, that it's difficult sometimes to understand the motives of leaders. People were in no way equal, under the law or otherwise. Indians and slaves were recolonized as humans but that's about all. Many Christians had their doubts as to whether these heathens even had souls. The efforts of missionaries to save these heathens were widely criticized.

Our forefathers did not see the need for conservation. They believed the world was built for man. Resources were endless. So when both Sherman and Sheridan proposed annihilating the buffalo to starve the Indians as America's final solution to the Indian problem, it was widely applauded in Washington and there was little resistance. Indians had never made good slaves and the lost of buffalo hides was a small price to pay to eradicate them.

 

[frigidweirdo]

AQI was pushed out of Iraq thanks to the US and Iraq militaries.

When the Syria civil war broke out ISIL formed out of being their own group outside the control of AQSL back in Pakistan. AQSL didn't like their methods and power grab in Syria so the two groups broke apart.

ISIL renamed parts of their group when they went back to Iraq thanks to Obama doing nothing in Syria and leaving a big ass open door for them to invade Iraq with the US military gone from Iraq.

So Barrack Insane Obama is the one to blame for this fucking mess.

Only, had Obama done something in Syria, he'd have gotten rid of Assad, and then Syria would have needed a new govt, which, more than likely, would have been made up of people like the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt, ie, most likely, ISIS people.

So..... you'd have been complaining about Obama went in to Syria bla bla bla.

Oh, and it was CONGRESS who decided not to go in, not the President. So......... Maybe you wanted him to claim Assad had WMDs, oh, wait, they did that too.

House of Representatives approves Obama plan to arm Syrian rebels World news theguardian.com

"House of Representatives approves Obama plan to arm Syrian rebels
Vote passes 273-156 as Obama seeks to reassure lawmakers and Americans who fear the US will be drawn into a ground war"

Does no one ever learn? Obama wants to arm people who will probably end up fighting the US, the Republican House also wants to do this.

But it's so simple to blame one man I guess, instead of looking at reality.

 

[frigidweirdo]

The 17th and 18th century were so different than today, that it's difficult sometimes to understand the motives of leaders. People were in no way equal, under the law or otherwise. Indians and slaves were recolonized as humans but that's about all. Many Christians had their doubts as to whether these heathens even had souls. The efforts of missionaries to save these heathens were widely criticized.

Our forefathers did not see the need for conservation. They believed the world was built for man. Resources were endless. So when both Sherman and Sheridan proposed annihilating the buffalo to starve the Indians as America's final for the problem, it was widely applauded in Washington and there was little resistance. Indians had never made good slaves and the lost of buffalo hides was a small price to pay to eradicate them.

Oh, well then, that's okay, Christianity is back to being warm and cozy and never hurt anyone then.

Oh, enough with the sarcasm.

It's amazing how people can use historical evidence to show how bad Islam is, and something similar for Christianity to show how good it is.

Double standards and nothing more.

 

[Flopper]

AQI was pushed out of Iraq thanks to the US and Iraq militaries.

When the Syria civil war broke out ISIL formed out of being their own group outside the control of AQSL back in Pakistan. AQSL didn't like their methods and power grab in Syria so the two groups broke apart.

ISIL renamed parts of their group when they went back to Iraq thanks to Obama doing nothing in Syria and leaving a big ass open door for them to invade Iraq with the US military gone from Iraq.

So Barrack Insane Obama is the one to blame for this fucking mess.

Only, had Obama done something in Syria, he'd have gotten rid of Assad, and then Syria would have needed a new govt, which, more than likely, would have been made up of people like the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt, ie, most likely, ISIS people.

So..... you'd have been complaining about Obama went in to Syria bla bla bla.

Oh, and it was CONGRESS who decided not to go in, not the President. So......... Maybe you wanted him to claim Assad had WMDs, oh, wait, they did that too.

House of Representatives approves Obama plan to arm Syrian rebels World news theguardian.com

"House of Representatives approves Obama plan to arm Syrian rebels
Vote passes 273-156 as Obama seeks to reassure lawmakers and Americans who fear the US will be drawn into a ground war"

Does no one ever learn? Obama wants to arm people who will probably end up fighting the US, the Republican House also wants to do this.

But it's so simple to blame one man I guess, instead of looking at reality.

It's the price of keeping US troops out of Iraq. Yes, it will probably create a problem tomorrow but it may fix today's problem. This is how we have dealt with problems in the middle east for years.

 

[mudwhistle]

Who created the vacuum ISIS took advantage of?

The Obama Administration.



Who supported the revocation of the status of armed forces agreement we had with Iraq?

Susan Rice, a current member of the Obama Administration.



Who felt it was a good idea to oust Qaddafi and free Libya from a dictator's grasp?

Susan Rice, a current member of the Obama Administration.



Who lied on 5 different talk-shows that a disgusting video caused protests in Benghazi and resulted in the deaths of 2 American diplomats, and two CIA operatives to include the American Ambassador in Libya?

Susan Rice, a current member of the Obama Administration.



Who has been president for the last 6 years yet acts like he had nothing to do with any of this?

Barack H. Obama.

 

[frigidweirdo]

It's the price of keeping US troops out of Iraq. Yes, it will probably create a problem tomorrow but it may fix today's problem. This is how we have dealt with problems in the middle east for years.

And why the Middle East is such a mess.

 

[frigidweirdo]

Who created the vacuum ISIS took advantage of?

The Obama Administration.



Who supported the revocation of the status of armed forces agreement we had with Iraq?

Susan Rice, a current member of the Obama Administration.



Who felt it was a good idea to oust Qaddafi and free Libya from a dictator's grasp?

Susan Rice, a current member of the Obama Administration.



Who lied on 5 different talk-shows that a disgusting video caused protests in Benghazi and resulted in the deaths of 2 American diplomats, and two CIA operatives to include the American Ambassador in Libya?

Susan Rice, a current member of the Obama Administration.



Who has been president for the last 6 years yet acts like he had nothing to do with any of this?

Barack H. Obama.

And who ignored so much it's incredible? You.

 

[mudwhistle]

Who created the vacuum ISIS took advantage of?

The Obama Administration.



Who supported the revocation of the status of armed forces agreement we had with Iraq?

Susan Rice, a current member of the Obama Administration.



Who felt it was a good idea to oust Qaddafi and free Libya from a dictator's grasp?

Susan Rice, a current member of the Obama Administration.



Who lied on 5 different talk-shows that a disgusting video caused protests in Benghazi and resulted in the deaths of 2 American diplomats, and two CIA operatives to include the American Ambassador in Libya?

Susan Rice, a current member of the Obama Administration.



Who has been president for the last 6 years yet acts like he had nothing to do with any of this?

Barack H. Obama.

And who ignored so much it's incredible? You.

Nope, you're ignoring alot.

You must figure that it doesn't matter what the current president does because he can just blame everything that happens on the guy who held the office before him.

Obama's job was to fix any problems that existed when he took the oath, not make them worse and just say, "Hell, Bush did it. I didn't know the job would be so difficult. It's not my fault everything's going to shit around me!!!"

 

[AndrewJBowman]

We need a permanent solution! help drive creation of a World Alliance Against Terror We the People Your Voice in Our Government

 

[Clementine]

I think ISIS came about the same way the rioters in Ferguson were formed. A bunch of irrational idiots came together because of a shared hatred of others. For these type of violent groups to form, there must be a lack of intelligence and reason.

 

[frigidweirdo]

Nope, you're ignoring alot.

You must figure that it doesn't matter what the current president does because he can just blame everything that happens on the guy who held the office before him.

Obama's job was to fix any problems that existed when he took the oath, not make them worse and just say, "Hell, Bush did it. I didn't know the job would be so difficult. It's not my fault everything's going to shit around me!!!"

Who has ignored what the president has done and not done?

So, for Obama to be blameless he'd have to fix problems that are unfixable in countries he really shouldn't be in? Jeez, you're demanding.

Maybe Obama had a plan to try and not be like Bush, ie, peeing off the whole of the Muslim world, and he tried, but it had gone too far.

I think you're not bothering much with reality, if something can help your political agenda, you'll use it, regardless of the hundreds of years of history, regardless of the impact that things really have on the world.

Obama simply doesn't have the power to control the world, it's not a movie.

 

[frigidweirdo]

I think ISIS came about the same way the rioters in Ferguson were formed. A bunch of irrational idiots came together because of a shared hatred of others. For these type of violent groups to form, there must be a lack of intelligence and reason.

How did the Bush's invasion of Iraq happen? A bunch of idiots came together with a shared hatred of others?

There certainly wasn't much in the way of intelligence going on there. His own father didn't invade Iraq for a reason. The reason hadn't changed in the 12 years between their actions. So why did one not go in, and the other did?

Must have be Barbara's genes hey?

 

[RoshawnMarkwees]

No, my answer was in regards to the real concern that ISIS has become. The Bush blamers are just looking to excuse obama.

Part of the reason for posting this thread was so people can see how to avoid mistakes in the future. Seems the main reason for making to same the same fatal errors over and over is that everyone sees it as a blame game, which president did this or that, when often it's just a general US govt thing. Each contributes, some more some less.

As a person who doesn't like either side of the political fight, I'd say this. Bush made this whole situation, Obama attempted to withdraw America from the whole affair, it was never going to happen, Bush had made too much hatred.

So, Obama's blame in all of this is that he tried to do the right thing, but the right thing couldn't work. In fact nothing could probably work to be honest. ISIS would have existed either as ISIS, ie, being allowed to ferment in Syria as it did, or if Obama had attacked Assad as McCain wanted, then they'd have been in charge, similar to Egypt with the Muslim Brotherhood.

Stuck between a rock and a hard place. Obama

No, democrats in congress authorized the invasion. It wasn't just Bush unless you're a sucker to DeMSM propaganda.
Obama looking to appease his fan base did the old tired 1960's anti Vietnam war routine and pulled out troops allowing the thing to crumble knowing he could blame Bush. It's worked of you. Meanwhile a worse scenario has developed and it is entirely on obama.

 

[mudwhistle]

Nope, you're ignoring alot.

You must figure that it doesn't matter what the current president does because he can just blame everything that happens on the guy who held the office before him.

Obama's job was to fix any problems that existed when he took the oath, not make them worse and just say, "Hell, Bush did it. I didn't know the job would be so difficult. It's not my fault everything's going to shit around me!!!"

Who has ignored what the president has done and not done?

So, for Obama to be blameless he'd have to fix problems that are unfixable in countries he really shouldn't be in? Jeez, you're demanding.

Maybe Obama had a plan to try and not be like Bush, ie, peeing off the whole of the Muslim world, and he tried, but it had gone too far.

I think you're not bothering much with reality, if something can help your political agenda, you'll use it, regardless of the hundreds of years of history, regardless of the impact that things really have on the world.

Obama simply doesn't have the power to control the world, it's not a movie.

I was over there during my time in the military, doing what he's asking guys from my former group to do (as we speak) and shouldn't have to do, so reality is a big thing with me.
This has nothing to do with my agenda.
You said it yourself, Obama set out to be not like Bush. Problem is, in the real world political positions should give way to real-world events. Instead Obama focuses on Global Warming and totally ignores a real threat in the Middle East. He tried to wash his hand of it and it came back to bite him in the ass. Islamic radicals have made great strides in their goals of establishing a caliphate and have murdered or pushed from their home countries hundreds of thousands of Christians and none Muslims, all while Obama looks the other way. He's made it extremely difficult for us to even say what the true enemy is because of his obvious bias towards the religion he won't admit but deeply loves. He compares one shooting in Ferguson to the thousands of people who have been slaughtered in Iraq in the last few months.

Nope, I'm the realist here.