Why 2nd Amendment supporters who support mandatory training are wrong….

[miketx]

Notice that in the very first sentence of the link about gun deaths.....they lie? They say 40,000 gun deaths, failing to point out that the majority of those deaths are suicides, not gun murder......

Gun murder is primarily criminals murdering criminals, and only about 5% of the criminal population are violent killers....so controlling that 5% would end about 95% of our gun crime....which is why the democrats are constantly releasing them from jail and prison.

Oh hold on Mr. 2aguy! We have a whole buttload more gun deaths than that, and this proves it!

 

[Foxfyre]

Most places have a law that prohibits using a firearm while intoxicated. So you call the cops and maybe they'll show up.

And FYI not that many people own machine guns

And that law is a regulation of firearms and a reasonable one. Everybody seems to think I'm wanting to restrict firearms. Well I am when it is common sense and necessary for the common good. Only a few states allow private citizens to own a machine gun and the rules and regulations to own one in those states are pretty strict.

My point is and has always been that it is reasonable to have common sense gun laws, rules, regulation that do not infringe on the rights and ability for responsible citizens to keep and bear arms. What is unreasonable is assuming that a law abiding citizen owning and/or carrying a gun is in itself a danger to the public when we all know that is absurd. What is unreasonable are laws, rules, regulations that makes it almost impossible for citizens to use those guns for defense. What is unreasonable and unconstitutional are federal laws restricting the people's right to keep and bear arms.

 

[Blues Man]

some women who place themselves in positions of risk are indeed somewhat responsible for their attacks.

Fuck around and find out...
It's not just a meme title.

Until you show me the Criminal Gun Mart then each and every gun in the possession of a criminal started life in the hands of a "law abiding gun owner"

This is a fact.

So you deny that there is a black market for guns?

What about the black market for heroin do you need to see a a criminal heroin mart to beieve that exists too?

 

[Blues Man]

And that law is a regulation of firearms and a reasonable one. Everybody seems to think I'm wanting to restrict firearms. Well I am when it is common sense and necessary for the common good. Only a few states allow private citizens to own a machine gun and the rules and regulations to own one in those states are pretty strict.

My point is and has always been that it is reasonable to have common sense gun laws, rules, regulation that do not infringe on the rights and ability for responsible citizens to keep and bear arms. What is unreasonable is assuming that a law abiding citizen owning and/or carrying a gun is in itself a danger to the public when we all know that is absurd. What is unreasonable are laws, rules, regulations that makes it almost impossible for citizens to use those guns for defense. What is unreasonable and unconstitutional are federal laws restricting the people's right to keep and bear arms.

No it's actually a regulation on drunkenness and a reasonable one at that

And as I have said before the 2nd has restrictions built in.

No one has a right to discharge a weapon anywhere or at any time they want.

The 2nd only applies to ownership and the ability to carry a firearm.

Anytime anyone discharges a weapon outside of the very well defined local or state ordinances then that discharge has to be justified and if that justification does not hold up then it could be a criminal offense.

 

[M14 Shooter]

And that law is a regulation of firearms and a reasonable one. Everybody seems to think I'm wanting to restrict firearms. Well I am when it is common sense and necessary for the common good.

The USSC discarded "common good" means-end testing last year.

Only a few states allow private citizens to own a machine gun and the rules and regulations to own one in those states are pretty strict.

The large majority of states do, with few-to-no state level restrictions

My point is and has always been that it is reasonable to have common sense gun laws, rules, regulation that do not infringe on the rights and ability for responsible citizens to keep and bear arms.

The USSC discarded "common good" means-end testing last year.

"Reasonable" cannot include violating the constitution.

 

[miketx]

And that law is a regulation of firearms and a reasonable one. Everybody seems to think I'm wanting to restrict firearms. Well I am when it is common sense and necessary for the common good. Only a few states allow private citizens to own a machine gun and the rules and regulations to own one in those states are pretty strict.

My point is and has always been that it is reasonable to have common sense gun laws, rules, regulation that do not infringe on the rights and ability for responsible citizens to keep and bear arms. What is unreasonable is assuming that a law abiding citizen owning and/or carrying a gun is in itself a danger to the public when we all know that is absurd. What is unreasonable are laws, rules, regulations that makes it almost impossible for citizens to use those guns for defense. What is unreasonable and unconstitutional are federal laws restricting the people's right to keep and bear arms.

Never yet heard anyone say what common sense gun laws are. So, it's a bullshit comment.

 

[Dadoalex]

No it doesn't it has to do with the extreme minority of criminals.

And no in fact anyone who partook in a straw purchase of a gun is NOT a law abiding gun owner, anyone who stolle a gun from a person is not a law abiding gun owner

Where do criminals really get their guns?

On average, just under 40,000 people each year die across the country in a gun-related death. So where do criminals typically buy their guns? And do most criminals seek out their weapons of choice through means, not above board?

www.foxnews.com

“The majority of firearms used in criminal activity are obtained illegally,” said David Chianese, a correspondent at Law Enforcement Today, published author and former NYPD detective. “Stricter or additional gun laws do not reduce gun violence.”

So you acknowledge that 100% of guns in the hands of criminals started out in the hands of "law abiding" gun owners.
And that criminals depend on the ignorance, stupidity and criminality of "law abiding" gun owners for their weapons.

 

[Foxfyre]

No, you were claiming you want to license firearms and have mandatory training for public safety reasons. I was pointing out there are a lot more things to be concerned about if you were really interested in public safety, like having dumbass potheads being allowed to drive.

I have no problem with concealed carry weapons being licensed and that is the ONLY case I think they should be licensed and I spelled out my reasons why. I oppose licensing those guns that are not carried or are open carry. I don't object to those states that choose not to require a license for concealed carry.

I have no problem with some basic safety knowledge and knowledge of the law related to guns being required to purchase a rifle, shotgun, handgun because there are some people who have never been taught the basics. I strongly oppose any law that would prohibit a law abiding citizen from purchasing or keeping or bearing arms other than those committing dangerous or deadly gun crime, the mentally incompetent, the too young. Nobody should be required to sell or give a firearm to a person known to be suicidal.

We cannot buy narcotics over the counter, you have to be licensed to buy dynamite, you have to provide proof of age/identity to buy a seemingly harmless product like Sudafed and of course any form of tobacco or alcohol that is to be consumed.

Common sense gun rules and regulation do not in my opinion infringe on our constitutional right to have and use a gun to defend and protect persons and property. I strongly oppose any gun laws that do infringe on our constitutional right to have and use a gun to defend and protect persons and property.

 

[Dadoalex]

I don't have to be in a militia in order to own guns.

In fact I don't have to give you or anyone else a reason why I own guns. Just like you don;t have to give me or anyone else a reason why you exercise any of your rights.

And my guns have never killed anyone and they most likely won't if my luck holds out.

You're right on both counts.
Which is the problem.

Lack of accountability for the "law abiding" gun owner is how criminals get their guns.

 

[miketx]

So you acknowledge that 100% of guns in the hands of criminals started out in the hands of "law abiding" gun owners.
And that criminals depend on the ignorance, stupidity and criminality of "law abiding" gun owners for their weapons.

Dildolix is lying

 

[M14 Shooter]

Common sense gun rules and regulation do not in my opinion infringe on our constitutional right to have and use a gun to defend and protect persons and property. I strongly oppose any gun laws that do infringe on our constitutional right to have and use a gun to defend and protect persons and property.

The USSC discarded "common good" means-end testing last year.
"Reasonable" cannot include violating the constitution.

 

[miketx]

You're right on both counts.
Which is the problem.

Lack of accountability for the "law abiding" gun owner is how criminals get their guns.

Liar

 

[M14 Shooter]

Liar

You expected something different?

 

[Blues Man]

So you acknowledge that 100% of guns in the hands of criminals started out in the hands of "law abiding" gun owners.
And that criminals depend on the ignorance, stupidity and criminality of "law abiding" gun owners for their weapons.

No I don't. I don't know where every gun a criminal uses comes from and neither do you.

And if you think a gun that is stolen by a criminal counts as coming from a legal gun owner you're wrong.

All stolen cars started out in the hands of law abiding drivers too ( See how stupid that sounds?)

The law abiding person who happens to have owned a gun is NOT responsible for the acts of a criminal

PERIOD.

 

[Dadoalex]

So you deny that there is a black market for guns?

What about the black market for heroin do you need to see a a criminal heroin mart to beieve that exists too?

No. Never said that.
But do those guns on the black market come from Criminal Guns R We?
Or did the come from "Law abiding" gun owners?

No one claims to be a "Law abiding" heroin dealer but every gun in the hands of every criminal comes from someone who claims to be a "law abiding" gun owner.

 

[Blues Man]

You're right on both counts.
Which is the problem.

Lack of accountability for the "law abiding" gun owner is how criminals get their guns.

It's only a problem for control freaks like you.

If I ever commit a crime I will be held accountable until then you're shit out of luck

 

[Blues Man]

No. Never said that.
But do those guns on the black market come from Criminal Guns R We?
Or did the come from "Law abiding" gun owners?

No one claims to be a "Law abiding" heroin dealer but every gun in the hands of every criminal comes from someone who claims to be a "law abiding" gun owner.

If you want to be a law abiding gun dealer you have to get a license.

All states and the federal government have laws that govern the private sales of firearms as well.

So if you abide by those laws you are a law abiding gun owner. If you don't then you're not.

You really seem to not be able to understand these very simple concepts.

 

[Dadoalex]

No I don't. I don't know where every gun a criminal uses comes from and neither do you.

And if you think a gun that is stolen by a criminal counts as coming from a legal gun owner you're wrong.

All stolen cars started out in the hands of law abiding drivers too ( See how stupid that sounds?)

The law abiding person who happens to have owned a gun is NOT responsible for the acts of a criminal

PERIOD.

Most stolen cars are stolen because the owner left the car unlocked and the keys inside the car.
In other words, the owner of the car invited the theft. His responsibility.

When professionals are involved they steal the car because of the type of car ergo, car owner buys car for ego boost, car gets stolen for ego boost, car owner responsibility.

Show me a gun in the hands of a criminal and whether stolen, black market, found...there's a "law abiding" gun owner on the other end of the chain.

 

[Dadoalex]

If you want to be a law abiding gun dealer you have to get a license.

All states and the federal government have laws that govern the private sales of firearms as well.

So if you abide by those laws you are a law abiding gun owner. If you don't then you're not.

You really seem to not be able to understand these very simple concepts.

Boy you are unable to focus aren't you.

100% of guns start life in the hands of a "law abiding" gun owner. Whether it is a dealer or a private citizen. The problem is what "law abiding" gun owners do with their guns after legally obtaining them.

 

[Failzero]

That's no different than a poll tax

Or California DMV fees