Why Are Republicans So Relentlessly Cruel to the Poor?

[Redfish]

it's not up to the fucking government to try to alter behavior via taxes. If a person wants to eat chocolate covers salted nuts sprinkled on deep fired Twinkies and a bowl of ice cream for supper every night it's none of your god damned business

But again, it happens and you've shown you have no problem when the govt does it for negative reasons.

I don't have a problem with a person eating chocolate or sugar. But like I've said, how many times now, that a lot of the bad food is coming out cheaper than it should be.

People pay tax on things, and they don't pay tax on other stuff. Some states don't charge you tax for groceries and will charge you for buying a book. Someone's already making these decisions. It's not about me wanting to decide what someone eats, it's about not having sugary food dirt cheap and healthy food expensive, just because the sugary food keeps easily and the multinationals are shipping the stuff around and getting all the tax breaks. But again, you seem to like that.

when the government does what for negative reasons and what negative reasons?

and what tax breaks to candy companies get that healthy food companies don't get?

people have choices. Those companies you mention only exist because people CHOOSE to buy their products and those choices are none of yours or the government's business

Yes, people have choices. People often choose to buy inferior shit because it's cheaper, or because they've been advertised to death and just zombie walk into buy things.

If people had the choice to buy healthier food for cheaper, would they then buy healthy food or would they still buy the sugary shit? I know when I was a young adult I ate too much shit because it was cheaper and I didn't have much money.

I'm not talking about taking choices away from people. I'm talking about adjusting the choices so they make more sense to people.

When sugary drinks are cheaper than healthy drinks, what do people buy? They buy the sugary drinks because they can afford those. Give people the choice to buy healthy food at affordable prices and then they have a real choice.

Your "choice" is that they have cheap sugary drinks and expensive healthy food and then they're making a choice, it's still a choice if healthy food is cheaper and sugary drinks more expensive than they are now.

healthy food is NOT more expensive than processed crap
Soda is not cheaper than water or even iced tea you make at home

like I said if you eat off the dollar menu for every meal every day you spend more than enough money to buy real food for the week

The problem here is that people CAN do things cheaper, but they need to be EDUCATED in how to do things, this is becoming a cycle of you compartmentalizing things and then dismissing them all, but then finding out that what you said shouldn't happen is what should happen to deal with the next thing.

common sense is genetic. liberal indoctrination is not education.

 

[Redfish]

Not true. Harry Reid had nothing when he went to congress. He retired a multi millionaire and never in his life had a real job. Corruption exists in both the USA and Russia.

there are always exceptions red but I did say mostly ,,Most of our people made most of their bread away from politics imho,,,,,Don't get me wrong I hate the garbage in our congress and insider trading legal?

some were rich before going to DC, but many got rich after getting there. Being in congress should not be a lifetime career. It should be a short term sacrifice for your country. We have allowed congress to become much too lucrative. Term limits would help. Making congress live to the laws they pass for us would also help. If congress had to deal with obamacare for their personal medical care, it would never have passed.

Hate to inform you....But Congress and their staff had to take Obamacare as their personal medical policy when the bill was passed

The Grassley and Vitter Amendments and What They Illuminate About the Cost of Health Insurance

Senator Chuck Grassley (R-Iowa)1 proposed an amendment to Section 1312 of PPACA removing all members of Congress and their staffs from the Federal Employee Health Benefits (“FEHB”) program and forcing them to enter the newly-formed PPACA insurance exchanges.2As Grassley explained in 2009, “[t]he exchange…is designed to give participants the same kind of choices and options for health care coverage as federal employees. My interest in having members of Congress participate in the exchange is consistent with my long-held view that Congress should live under the same laws it passes for the rest of the country.”3 Surprisingly, the amendment passed,

wrong again, winger

https://www.forbes.com/sites/michaelcannon/2016/04/15/congress-is-getting-a-special-exemption-from-obamacare-and-no-its-not-legal/#7b8b3b8f7823

You didn't read what you linked to did you?

The Affordable Care Act threw members and staff out of the Federal Employees Health Benefits Program, and basically says they can only get health benefits through one of the law's new Exchanges. Under pressure from Congress and the president himself, the federal Office of Personnel Management (which administers benefits for federal workers, including Congress) decided the House and Senate would participate in the District of Columbia's "Small Business Health Options Program," or "SHOP" Exchange, rather than the Exchanges that exist for individuals. The reason is that federal law would not allow members and staff to keep receiving a taxpayer contribution of up to $12,000 toward their premiums if they enrolled in individual-market Exchanges.

congress has a better plan than is available to any average American.

 

[rightwinger]

to the OP, Which is better for an able bodied poor person? A job or an EBT card? self reliance or dependence?

The dems want a permanent under class that is dependent on govt for everything and will continue to vote for dems to keep the welfare coming. This will destroy our country if allowed to continue.

Why don't Republicans get these people good paying jobs? They will vote Republican forever

its already happening. Employers are investing in American facilities, hiring American workers. "America first".

thanks for acknowledging that the dem party is self destructing with its far left failed ideology.

11 million people got jobs under Obama
Three times the number that got jobs under BOTH Bush's

 

[frigidweirdo]

Some states have food not taxed, other I believe have healthy food not taxed.

Well, it is up to society to coerce people to do things, it happens ALL THE TIME. So many decisions are made by government where this happens.

So you don't want to control people for their own good? You don't want laws against murder? Laws against stealing? Laws against violence?

You're an anarchist then!

Every example you gave are laws that address harm done to OTHER people, not harm done to themselves. Next.

Here's a hint you might want to try. Motorcycle helmet laws.

Actually I think you're wrong. If it were legal to murder, I could murder, but I could also be murdered. It protects me that I can't murder or be murdered. But then again you could have responded to the point I was making.

You conflated "control people for their own good" with "laws against murder".

Oh really. So why do we have a law against murder? Why not go Discworld and make it okay as long as you're in a guild or something?

Why is making a law against murder not about controlling people for their own good?

It's about preventing people from doing harm to other people. That's controlling people for the good of others, not for their own good.

Controlling them for their own good assumes that they're too stupid to make good decisions for themselves and need a nanny state to take care of them. Ultimately, why do you think ANYONE has/ should have the authority to make those decisions for other people?

Well surely controlling them for the good of others assumes they're too stupid to realize that someone doesn't want to be murdered and that they need the nanny state to tell them not to murder, or some religion to tell them.

The problem we have here is that we're not talking about telling people what they can and can't do. We're simply stating that healthy things have less tax on them than things that are not so healthy so that people can make a choice. You know, I could murder or I could not murder... hmm... well I might go to prison or be executed if I murder, so I'm not going to do it. I could buy a snickers or I could buy a salad, both are okay, however the snickers is cheaper, I'll take that as I don't have much money, oh, wait, the salad is now cheaper, maybe i'll go for that.

 

[JoeNormal]

I'll repeat:

Conservatives tend to donate to their churches (tax deductable) which in turn, contribute a small amount of that back to actual charities. The predominant church in my area considers itself a charitable organization for the tax benefits but the actual amount of charity is about 1%.

You are confused Moon Bat.

Our church is a big contributor to feeding the poor and providing services in the community to those that really need it.

This next Sunday morning we will meet at the regular service time and go en mass to the grocery stores and buy food instead of having the normal worship service. We do that several times a year.

What are you going to be doing this Sunday morning Moon Bat, laying in bed?

The third weekend of every month my wife and I go to the grocery store and buy food and donate it to our church's food pantry. We also help to support an orphanage.

What do you do Moon Bat other than bitch that the rich are not being taxed enough?

Not knowing the specifics of your church, I'll try not to discourage your efforts to do good. However, from my experience GENERALLY, church charities shelter tax revenues that would go as far or farther in providing for the poor if they were collected.

Church charities are operated by non-paid volunteers. Give the money to the government and it would take 40 or 50 high paid civil servants to do the same thing.

From my mainstream standpoint.

I would find a charity handout from a foodbank to be humiliating.

But I would have no problem with welfare. There is a contract between the state and the individual that gives it respectability. I have paid into the welfare state for years and am entitled to its protection when times are tough.

The work of charities is admirable but essentially it is just a top up to the work of the state (all of us) in providing a safety net for those who have fallen on hard times.

We live in rich advanced countries where mechanisation and technology have made so many manual jobs redundant. But the people who did those jobs havent gone away. How we look after those people and their families is going to be a big test for us.

And there you have the problem with government "charity" in a nutshell: it encourages jackasses like you to think it's respectable to take money belonging to other people, that you're entitled to it, and you need never feel embarrassed about being a leech.

I suspect like most people, Tommy has not abused the system and that it's just comforting to know there's a program in place to help in the event of an emergency like unexpected unemployment. I've been working for over 40 years and in that time, the total support I've needed was 2 weeks of unemployment.

 

[rightwinger]

there are always exceptions red but I did say mostly ,,Most of our people made most of their bread away from politics imho,,,,,Don't get me wrong I hate the garbage in our congress and insider trading legal?

some were rich before going to DC, but many got rich after getting there. Being in congress should not be a lifetime career. It should be a short term sacrifice for your country. We have allowed congress to become much too lucrative. Term limits would help. Making congress live to the laws they pass for us would also help. If congress had to deal with obamacare for their personal medical care, it would never have passed.

Hate to inform you....But Congress and their staff had to take Obamacare as their personal medical policy when the bill was passed

The Grassley and Vitter Amendments and What They Illuminate About the Cost of Health Insurance

Senator Chuck Grassley (R-Iowa)1 proposed an amendment to Section 1312 of PPACA removing all members of Congress and their staffs from the Federal Employee Health Benefits (“FEHB”) program and forcing them to enter the newly-formed PPACA insurance exchanges.2As Grassley explained in 2009, “[t]he exchange…is designed to give participants the same kind of choices and options for health care coverage as federal employees. My interest in having members of Congress participate in the exchange is consistent with my long-held view that Congress should live under the same laws it passes for the rest of the country.”3 Surprisingly, the amendment passed,

wrong again, winger

https://www.forbes.com/sites/michaelcannon/2016/04/15/congress-is-getting-a-special-exemption-from-obamacare-and-no-its-not-legal/#7b8b3b8f7823

You didn't read what you linked to did you?

The Affordable Care Act threw members and staff out of the Federal Employees Health Benefits Program, and basically says they can only get health benefits through one of the law's new Exchanges. Under pressure from Congress and the president himself, the federal Office of Personnel Management (which administers benefits for federal workers, including Congress) decided the House and Senate would participate in the District of Columbia's "Small Business Health Options Program," or "SHOP" Exchange, rather than the Exchanges that exist for individuals. The reason is that federal law would not allow members and staff to keep receiving a taxpayer contribution of up to $12,000 toward their premiums if they enrolled in individual-market Exchanges.

congress has a better plan than is available to any average American.

Not what you said....You said they were not covered under Obamacare
They are

The only difference is that they get an employer contribution like all other Federal Employees

 

[frigidweirdo]

Sorry pal...It doesn't work like that

This is Trump's America...I get to make the claim, It is up to you to disprove it

Ball is in your court

that's not how it works in this country.

You have to prove that a person is guilty

Trumpian logic proves you wrong

I get to make my claim...I have done my part
Now, it is up to you to prove me wrong
Until you can do that, what I said gets accepted as a fact

sorry but there is no such thing just like there is no such thing as liberal logic

"liberal logic" huh? Like your logic with the 2A? You have all the evidence given to you, you provide none of your own, and then you agree that you were right and all the evidence is wrong. That's your logic apparently.

you gave me no evidence that people are not allowed to carry weapons outside of military service

Ahahahah, oh, come on.... A) this isn't the place for this discussion, and B) why would I need to give you that evidence? This is silly, you were clearly doing what you are lambasting people for on this thread, don't deny it, it's pretty clear.

 

[hadit]

Every example you gave are laws that address harm done to OTHER people, not harm done to themselves. Next.

Here's a hint you might want to try. Motorcycle helmet laws.

Actually I think you're wrong. If it were legal to murder, I could murder, but I could also be murdered. It protects me that I can't murder or be murdered. But then again you could have responded to the point I was making.

You conflated "control people for their own good" with "laws against murder".

Oh really. So why do we have a law against murder? Why not go Discworld and make it okay as long as you're in a guild or something?

Why is making a law against murder not about controlling people for their own good?

It's about preventing people from doing harm to other people. That's controlling people for the good of others, not for their own good.

Controlling them for their own good assumes that they're too stupid to make good decisions for themselves and need a nanny state to take care of them. Ultimately, why do you think ANYONE has/ should have the authority to make those decisions for other people?

Well surely controlling them for the good of others assumes they're too stupid to realize that someone doesn't want to be murdered and that they need the nanny state to tell them not to murder, or some religion to tell them.

The problem we have here is that we're not talking about telling people what they can and can't do. We're simply stating that healthy things have less tax on them than things that are not so healthy so that people can make a choice. You know, I could murder or I could not murder... hmm... well I might go to prison or be executed if I murder, so I'm not going to do it. I could buy a snickers or I could buy a salad, both are okay, however the snickers is cheaper, I'll take that as I don't have much money, oh, wait, the salad is now cheaper, maybe i'll go for that.

Tax policy as social engineering.

 

[hunarcy]

It's not the role of the federal government to provide such assistance. The things that government is supposed to provide is listed in Article I and taxes are to be collected to pay for THOSE things.

The role of the federal government is to do what needs doing as determined by We the People

and we the people empowered trump and the GOP to do our governing. So why is it you feel the dems should have some stronghold because of their gigantic losses.

We the People voted against him

If we lived in the straight democracy you imagine, you'd have a point. But, of course, we'd also have segregation and limited rights for women and Gays. So, not even YOU would support a straight democracy.

I don't think the majority of people in this country are in favor those things

Not now, perhaps, but at the time that segregation was overturned, popular opinion supported it.

 

[JoeNormal]

From my mainstream standpoint.

I would find a charity handout from a foodbank to be humiliating.

But I would have no problem with welfare. There is a contract between the state and the individual that gives it respectability. I have paid into the welfare state for years and am entitled to its protection when times are tough.

The work of charities is admirable but essentially it is just a top up to the work of the state (all of us) in providing a safety net for those who have fallen on hard times.

We live in rich advanced countries where mechanisation and technology have made so many manual jobs redundant. But the people who did those jobs havent gone away. How we look after those people and their families is going to be a big test for us.

This is very telling of the leftist mentality.

You would be humiliated by taking food from people that freely offer it to you, but not humiliated by taking food from people that may not have it TO give to you?

You miss the point Ray. I have no right to the charity handout. I do have a right to the welfare because I have paid into it since I first started work. Its a right not a discretionary gesture.

Do you really think that's it? Okay, then what if you were a lifelong contributor to the charity about to offer you food? Would you feel guilt taking their food then????

Thats a very unique circumstance Ray. I dont know. I take a pride in paying my way and the independence that gives me.
Heres a thought on that issue. I might have paid into that charity but my neighbour hasnt. He is still entitled to welfare. Its his right and it gives him a little more dignity than charity handouts.

The folks that give freely of their time and money to give at church food banks do it out of compassion. A government civil service worker does it for a paycheck and very likely holds you in contempt.

And you don't? What about your disparaging remarks about 'welfare queens'?

 

[Redfish]

to the OP, Which is better for an able bodied poor person? A job or an EBT card? self reliance or dependence?

The dems want a permanent under class that is dependent on govt for everything and will continue to vote for dems to keep the welfare coming. This will destroy our country if allowed to continue.

Why don't Republicans get these people good paying jobs? They will vote Republican forever

its already happening. Employers are investing in American facilities, hiring American workers. "America first".

thanks for acknowledging that the dem party is self destructing with its far left failed ideology.

11 million people got jobs under Obama
Three times the number that got jobs under BOTH Bush's

yep, Obama created lots of part time, minimum wage, no benefit jobs------ Wow!!!!

 

[JoeNormal]

You might have noticed a trend away from strict Constitutionalism. There's a reason for it. The American people have gained immeasurably from government involvement in R&D, infrastructure and a safety net. None of these things are numerated in the Constitution. Good luck convincing people they'd be better off going your way.

All those things should be left to the states.

So tell me which state would/could fund the space program?

 

[Redfish]

some were rich before going to DC, but many got rich after getting there. Being in congress should not be a lifetime career. It should be a short term sacrifice for your country. We have allowed congress to become much too lucrative. Term limits would help. Making congress live to the laws they pass for us would also help. If congress had to deal with obamacare for their personal medical care, it would never have passed.

Hate to inform you....But Congress and their staff had to take Obamacare as their personal medical policy when the bill was passed

The Grassley and Vitter Amendments and What They Illuminate About the Cost of Health Insurance

Senator Chuck Grassley (R-Iowa)1 proposed an amendment to Section 1312 of PPACA removing all members of Congress and their staffs from the Federal Employee Health Benefits (“FEHB”) program and forcing them to enter the newly-formed PPACA insurance exchanges.2As Grassley explained in 2009, “[t]he exchange…is designed to give participants the same kind of choices and options for health care coverage as federal employees. My interest in having members of Congress participate in the exchange is consistent with my long-held view that Congress should live under the same laws it passes for the rest of the country.”3 Surprisingly, the amendment passed,

wrong again, winger

https://www.forbes.com/sites/michaelcannon/2016/04/15/congress-is-getting-a-special-exemption-from-obamacare-and-no-its-not-legal/#7b8b3b8f7823

You didn't read what you linked to did you?

The Affordable Care Act threw members and staff out of the Federal Employees Health Benefits Program, and basically says they can only get health benefits through one of the law's new Exchanges. Under pressure from Congress and the president himself, the federal Office of Personnel Management (which administers benefits for federal workers, including Congress) decided the House and Senate would participate in the District of Columbia's "Small Business Health Options Program," or "SHOP" Exchange, rather than the Exchanges that exist for individuals. The reason is that federal law would not allow members and staff to keep receiving a taxpayer contribution of up to $12,000 toward their premiums if they enrolled in individual-market Exchanges.

congress has a better plan than is available to any average American.

Not what you said....You said they were not covered under Obamacare
They are

The only difference is that they get an employer contribution like all other Federal Employees

why does a person making 200K need a subsidy?

 

[Redfish]

to the OP, Which is better for an able bodied poor person? A job or an EBT card? self reliance or dependence?

The dems want a permanent under class that is dependent on govt for everything and will continue to vote for dems to keep the welfare coming. This will destroy our country if allowed to continue.

Why don't Republicans get these people good paying jobs? They will vote Republican forever

its already happening. Employers are investing in American facilities, hiring American workers. "America first".

thanks for acknowledging that the dem party is self destructing with its far left failed ideology.

winger finds the truth funny. I find winger pathetic.

 

[edward37]

to the OP, Which is better for an able bodied poor person? A job or an EBT card? self reliance or dependence?

The dems want a permanent under class that is dependent on govt for everything and will continue to vote for dems to keep the welfare coming. This will destroy our country if allowed to continue.

Why don't Republicans get these people good paying jobs? They will vote Republican forever

its already happening. Employers are investing in American facilities, hiring American workers. "America first".

thanks for acknowledging that the dem party is self destructing with its far left failed ideology.

11 million people got jobs under Obama
Three times the number that got jobs under BOTH Bush's

yep, Obama created lots of part time, minimum wage, no benefit jobs------ Wow!!!!

GIVEN with the shit GWB left him Obama did a pretty damn good job and if the fn ah' republicans would've helped out it could have been even better But those traitors are, as we all know, for party not country

 

[Redfish]

to the OP, Which is better for an able bodied poor person? A job or an EBT card? self reliance or dependence?

The dems want a permanent under class that is dependent on govt for everything and will continue to vote for dems to keep the welfare coming. This will destroy our country if allowed to continue.

Why don't Republicans get these people good paying jobs? They will vote Republican forever

its already happening. Employers are investing in American facilities, hiring American workers. "America first".

thanks for acknowledging that the dem party is self destructing with its far left failed ideology.

11 million people got jobs under Obama
Three times the number that got jobs under BOTH Bush's

yep, Obama created lots of part time, minimum wage, no benefit jobs------ Wow!!!!

GIVEN with the shit GWB left him Obama did a pretty damn good job and if the fn ah' republicans would've helped out it could have been even better But those traitors are, as we all know, for party not country

Do you remember 9/11/2001? Bush inherited that from Clinton. Obama tried to destroy this great nation and turn it into a large copy of failed European socialism. The American people rejected him and his left wing ideology. The GOP members of congress did their jobs in stopping the tyrant traitor Obama. Now, they need to do their jobs and repeal the worst legislation in the history of our nation, obamacare.

Trump has done more good for this country in 90 days than Bush and Obama did in 16 years. In case you missed it, I am not a Bushie.

 

[rightwinger]

to the OP, Which is better for an able bodied poor person? A job or an EBT card? self reliance or dependence?

The dems want a permanent under class that is dependent on govt for everything and will continue to vote for dems to keep the welfare coming. This will destroy our country if allowed to continue.

Why don't Republicans get these people good paying jobs? They will vote Republican forever

its already happening. Employers are investing in American facilities, hiring American workers. "America first".

thanks for acknowledging that the dem party is self destructing with its far left failed ideology.

11 million people got jobs under Obama
Three times the number that got jobs under BOTH Bush's

yep, Obama created lots of part time, minimum wage, no benefit jobs------ Wow!!!!

Trump is claiming the same jobs......Spin away

 

[rightwinger]

Why don't Republicans get these people good paying jobs? They will vote Republican forever

its already happening. Employers are investing in American facilities, hiring American workers. "America first".

thanks for acknowledging that the dem party is self destructing with its far left failed ideology.

11 million people got jobs under Obama
Three times the number that got jobs under BOTH Bush's

yep, Obama created lots of part time, minimum wage, no benefit jobs------ Wow!!!!

GIVEN with the shit GWB left him Obama did a pretty damn good job and if the fn ah' republicans would've helped out it could have been even better But those traitors are, as we all know, for party not country

Do you remember 9/11/2001? Bush inherited that from Clinton. Obama tried to destroy this great nation and turn it into a large copy of failed European socialism. The American people rejected him and his left wing ideology. The GOP members of congress did their jobs in stopping the tyrant traitor Obama. Now, they need to do their jobs and repeal the worst legislation in the history of our nation, obamacare.

Trump has done more good for this country in 90 days than Bush and Obama did in 16 years. In case you missed it, I am not a Bushie.

Bush did not protect us on 9-11
3000 Americans lost their lives

 

[Redfish]

to the OP, Which is better for an able bodied poor person? A job or an EBT card? self reliance or dependence?

The dems want a permanent under class that is dependent on govt for everything and will continue to vote for dems to keep the welfare coming. This will destroy our country if allowed to continue.

Why don't Republicans get these people good paying jobs? They will vote Republican forever

its already happening. Employers are investing in American facilities, hiring American workers. "America first".

thanks for acknowledging that the dem party is self destructing with its far left failed ideology.

11 million people got jobs under Obama
Three times the number that got jobs under BOTH Bush's

yep, Obama created lots of part time, minimum wage, no benefit jobs------ Wow!!!!

Trump is claiming the same jobs......Spin away

burger flippers and pipe welders are not the same jobs, doofus

 

[Redfish]

its already happening. Employers are investing in American facilities, hiring American workers. "America first".

thanks for acknowledging that the dem party is self destructing with its far left failed ideology.

11 million people got jobs under Obama
Three times the number that got jobs under BOTH Bush's

yep, Obama created lots of part time, minimum wage, no benefit jobs------ Wow!!!!

GIVEN with the shit GWB left him Obama did a pretty damn good job and if the fn ah' republicans would've helped out it could have been even better But those traitors are, as we all know, for party not country

Do you remember 9/11/2001? Bush inherited that from Clinton. Obama tried to destroy this great nation and turn it into a large copy of failed European socialism. The American people rejected him and his left wing ideology. The GOP members of congress did their jobs in stopping the tyrant traitor Obama. Now, they need to do their jobs and repeal the worst legislation in the history of our nation, obamacare.

Trump has done more good for this country in 90 days than Bush and Obama did in 16 years. In case you missed it, I am not a Bushie.

Bush did not protect us on 9-11
3000 Americans lost their lives

the 9/11 attack would never have been possible if Clinton had done his job, The planning and personnel placement for 9/11 was done under Clinton and was possible because he castrated our intelligence services.

Sorry to destroy your fantasy, but the truth is the truth.