Zone1 Why are there so many "religious" threads on this board?

[BlackSand]

That right there is called gaslighting.

.

I didn't ask you to agree ... I am not trying to covert or convince you ...
And that is exactly what I mean about how you don't ever listen to a damn thing.

You just hear whatever you want to hear ...
And when it isn't there ... You call it gaslighting and try to gaslight me ... Good luck, you nitwit.

I have no idea why you would be asking me about tarot cards, and electronic surveillance or spells ...
Are you high on something ... You might want to put the hookah down ...

.​

 

[strollingbones]

damn BlackSand not once have you tired to save me

 

[BlackSand]

damn BlackSand not once have you tired to save me

.

I hear you Bones ... It's not my job ...
I have a hard enough time doing what I need to do ... I am not qualified to save anyone in any kind of spiritual sense ...

.​

 

[strollingbones]

None of us are

 

[ding]

Do you measure militant theists by the same standard.

Sure... how many theistic states have murdered 100 to 200 million of their own citizens in the last 100 years?

The Khmer Rouge abolished all religion and dispersed minority groups, forbidding them to speak their languages or to practice their customs. These policies had been implemented in less severe forms for many years prior to the Khmer Rouge's taking power.

 

[alang1216]

Sure... how many theistic states have murdered 100 to 200 million of their own citizens in the last 100 years?

The Khmer Rouge abolished all religion and dispersed minority groups, forbidding them to speak their languages or to practice their customs. These policies had been implemented in less severe forms for many years prior to the Khmer Rouge's taking power.

The Thirty Years' War is thought to have claimed between 4 and 12 million lives. Around 450,000 people died in combat. Disease and famine took the lion's share of the death toll. Estimates suggest that 20% of Europe's people perished, with some areas seeing their population fall by as much as 60%.

And that was before inflation!

 

[ding]

The Thirty Years' War is thought to have claimed between 4 and 12 million lives. Around 450,000 people died in combat. Disease and famine took the lion's share of the death toll. Estimates suggest that 20% of Europe's people perished, with some areas seeing their population fall by as much as 60%.

And that was before inflation!

When was that again?

 

[ding]

Until the 20th century, historians generally viewed it as a continuation of the religious struggle initiated by the 16th-century Reformation within the Holy Roman Empire. The 1555 Peace of Augsburg attempted to resolve this by dividing the Empire into Lutheran and Catholic states, but over the next 50 years the expansion of Protestantism beyond these boundaries destabilised the settlement. While most modern commentators accept that differences over religion and Imperial authority were important factors in causing the war, they argue its scope and extent were driven by the contest for European dominance between Habsburg-ruled Spain and Austria, and the French House of Bourbon.[20]

Thirty Years' War - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

As all wars are in reality.

 

[ding]

The Thirty Years' War is thought to have claimed between 4 and 12 million lives. Around 450,000 people died in combat. Disease and famine took the lion's share of the death toll. Estimates suggest that 20% of Europe's people perished, with some areas seeing their population fall by as much as 60%.

And that was before inflation!

So besides this not really being driven by religion and it being 400 years ago, do you have an example of a theistic state murdering it's citizens on the scale of atheistic states in the 20th century? Because this example is not an example of war between different nations.

 

[alang1216]

Until the 20th century, historians generally viewed it as a continuation of the religious struggle initiated by the 16th-century Reformation within the Holy Roman Empire. The 1555 Peace of Augsburg attempted to resolve this by dividing the Empire into Lutheran and Catholic states, but over the next 50 years the expansion of Protestantism beyond these boundaries destabilised the settlement. While most modern commentators accept that differences over religion and Imperial authority were important factors in causing the war, they argue its scope and extent were driven by the contest for European dominance between Habsburg-ruled Spain and Austria, and the French House of Bourbon.[20]

Thirty Years' War - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

As all wars are in reality.

I agree that wars are fought for complex reasons so you saying that atheism is somehow to blame for millions of deaths is rather disingenuous.

 

[alang1216]

So besides this not really being driven by religion and it being 400 years ago, do you have an example of a theistic state murdering it's citizens on the scale of atheistic states in the 20th century? Because this example is not an example of war between different nations.

So you have an arbitrary cut off date? Were Christians not Christians 400 years ago?

 

[ding]

I agree that wars are fought for complex reasons so you saying that atheism is somehow to blame for millions of deaths is rather disingenuous.

I don't believe it is disingenuous. They weren't a war against another nation. It was a war against their own people. Religious persons were persecuted for their beliefs. As Lenin said, "the propaganda of atheism is necessary for our programs."

 

[ding]

So you have an arbitrary cut off date? Were Christians not Christians 400 years ago?

I'm just saying your example wasn't an apples to apples comparison on several levels.

 

[ding]

alang1216 you can disagree all you want but the reality is that the persecution of people for religious beliefs by militant atheists is going on as we speak.

China

The US Commission on International Religious Freedom reports on China’s violations against Uighur Muslims, Christians, Falon Gong and Tibetan Buddhists.

www.uscirf.gov

 

[alang1216]

alang1216 you can disagree all you want but the reality is that the persecution of people for religious beliefs by militant atheists is going on

True but also true that there is persecution of people for religious beliefs by militant theists too.

 

[ding]

True but also true that there is persecution of people for religious beliefs by militant theists too.

Sure, can you detail what that looks like for me?

 

[Stann]

Flailing about for life's answers or something? I don't get it.

Full disclosure.....Agnostic (at best) here.

The title is " religion and ethics ". Ethics have always been matter of fact and not much to discuss there but religion is always good for a discussion. Money, gods and morality only exist in human minds. And mankind will continue to argue the point until and if the race finally matures and becomes truly civilized.

 

[Stann]

Christian Nationalism is definitely a voting block....pretending otherwise is foolishness.
Also whether you are atheist or agnostic you are still in the minority because the majority of America is still religious in some fashion.

And since most people gain some sense of morality from their religious beliefs (even if they aren't consistent or follow those ideals consistently) they do have an effect upon voting habits.

And lastly,
America was created by Christians and for Christians. The Declaration of Independence is a very carefully crafted letter of intent that declared that this colony of Christians were going to separate from England and King George based upon religious ideals. Now where those word definitions today are read with modern intent....Black's Law Dictionary can clarify the express religious beliefs that were the guiding principles for this declaration.
Every signatory to the document might not have been a lawyer but every signatory was indeed a graduate of Seminary school. Every signatory, had as part of their education, translated their own personal English translation of the scriptures from Latin.

"A more perfect union" is a direct reference to the heart of their religious ideas and ideals they wholeheartedly believed.

To claim that some other reason was the foundation of our nation is sheer stupidity.

Unfair taxation and loyalty to a king comes to mind as the biggest reason our nation came into being. It's always about the money.

 

[ding]

Money, gods and morality only exist in human minds.

You can't help but to show your true colors, can you? Morals exist for logical reasons which is why they are universal and can't be whatever man wants them to be. Same for God.

 

[JohnDB]

Unfair taxation and loyalty to a king comes to mind as the biggest reason our nation came into being. It's always about the money.

Because the taxes went above 10%.
And only God got 10%....How dare George think higher of himself than God. The Declaration of Independence called King George the Antichrist in 20-something different ways without expressly saying just that....because name calling was a sin and this was a "Holier than thou" contest.

Reading Benjamin Franklin's autobiography gives other clues as well in a more detailed fashion. It's free on various websites. One only needs to read the opening paragraph to get the gist of the founding Father's religious beliefs. And Ben was considered a "heathen" because he dared to marry a divorced woman and wasn't aligned with any particular denomination of church. But he read his Bible in secret. Because any particular translation could get you killed.