Why are we so afraid to admit the obvious?

[JoeB131]

Yeah. The problem as I see it is that "common ground" is no longer the goal. "Beating" the other "side" is. People like you and I make a mistake by assuming that the fundamentalists want healing or cooperation. Once I realized this, much of this started making more sense.

Exactly how do you meet common ground with people who are stupid?

Look, in 2008, the GOP got EVERYTHING THEY WANTED, and it was a complete fucking disaster. Yet, 45% still kept voting GOP.

How do you reason with these people? they live in their own reality with their own facts.

 

[sparky]

How do you reason with these people? they live in their own reality with their own facts.

because the 'facts' are niethr party gives a sweet sh*t about us Joe



~S~

 

[JoeB131]

because the 'facts' are niethr party gives a sweet sh*t about us Joe

Again, really no patience for this kind of "They are just the same because they don't embrace my pet projects" nonsense....

Here's the thing. I really do think most people who get elected to office do care. They'd have to. Would you run for public office and humiliate yourself once every 2-4 years? I sure as hell wouldn't.

The real problem is, they tell their voters exactly what they want to hear.

Example is Trump. Can't tell Mr. and Mrs. Rust Belt Uneducated White that the Union Factory Job their dad had isn't coming back. Automation and process improvement got rid of that job. But man, you tell them that some Third World Country is cheating them on an unfair trade deal, and I'm going to impose tariffs, that's what those dumb ass white trash want to hear.

Of course, it won't bring back one job... those jobs are gone. It will make that stuff you buy at the store more expensive.

 

[sparky]

Well yes Joe, they 'tell us what we want to hear' , and i'll add they create media diversions.

While those diversions are being played out in the press, they're passing legislation inversley proportional to their claims.

Many examples exist......

A good one was Monica, while Glass Steagal was thrown under the bus.....

Another was Kava, while the deficit ceiling was substaintally increased to pay for prosperity.

Another was the PA, after 9/11.....do you honestly think any gub'mit agency can create & push thru that amount of 'legislative level' bureaucracy in 6 weeks?

Some of these legislations are 2000 pages ,and blundgeoned thru congress in less than 24 hrs as well. They get a brief synopsis from their aids (read-lobbyists) , and off they go 'yea' it all.

~S~

 

[bripat9643]

Given the spate of recent violence, the board is understandably abuzz with threads and comments about who is to "blame". And of course, each end is essentially putting 100% of the blame on the other end. Each end is laying out a long list of examples of violence, rhetoric and incitement by the other end.

Guess what? They're both right. Facts are facts.

I have a great deal of respect for the power of ideology. It can make people say and do insane things. It can absolutely blind a person to the obvious. But is it so strong that we'd rather see this country burn down than challenge our own tribe to stop the madness?

When the hate is flowing from both ends like water from a fire hose, does it really matter which end is "worse"?

What is so terrifying about just admitting the obvious?
.

No, they aren't both equally responsible. Saying such things only helps the side that is responsible.

 

[JoeB131]

Well yes Joe, they 'tell us what we want to hear' , and i'll add they create media diversions.

While those diversions are being played out in the press, they're passing legislation inversley proportional to their claims.

Many examples exist......

A good one was Monica, while Glass Steagal was thrown under the bus.....

Okay, now you are getting into Dale Smith level conspiracy crazy here.

Let me know when you've taken your medications, then we can talk.

 

[bripat9643]

Given the spate of recent violence, the board is understandably abuzz with threads and comments about who is to "blame". And of course, each end is essentially putting 100% of the blame on the other end. Each end is laying out a long list of examples of violence, rhetoric and incitement by the other end.

Guess what? They're both right. Facts are facts.

I have a great deal of respect for the power of ideology. It can make people say and do insane things. It can absolutely blind a person to the obvious. But is it so strong that we'd rather see this country burn down than challenge our own tribe to stop the madness?

When the hate is flowing from both ends like water from a fire hose, does it really matter which end is "worse"?

What is so terrifying about just admitting the obvious?
.

Because one side is practicing violence and only condemns one side.....the other side (mine) condemns violence from anyone and does not promote it. so to fix the problem, you need to stop promoting violence and start condemning anyone who does it.....it's pretty clear who needs to do that (not my side, they already do that)

Both sides promote violence, so you have failed to see the truth.

No they don't both promote violence, asshole. Hillary actually paid thugs to beat up Trump supporters. Hillary paid thugs to trespass on Trump campaign rallies. When has the Republican party ever done anything similar?

 

[Mac1958]

No, they aren't both equally responsible. Saying such things only helps the side that is responsible.

Here we go again.

Never have I used the word "equal".

And I clearly said "When the hate is flowing from both ends like water from a fire hose, does it really matter which end is worse?"

The responses on this thread have been a non-stop illustration of its point. I couldn't have asked for a better set of examples.
.

 

[JoeB131]

Here we go again.

Never have I used the word "equal".

And I clearly said "When the hate is flowing from both ends like water from a fire hose, does it really matter which end is worse?"

The responses on this thread have been a non-stop illustration of its point. I couldn't have asked for a better set of examples.

The fact that you equate the rejection of your Islamophobia and Homophobia by the left as being the same as what Trump is doing is kind of the problem, Stormy Mac.

 

[bripat9643]

Given the spate of recent violence, the board is understandably abuzz with threads and comments about who is to "blame". And of course, each end is essentially putting 100% of the blame on the other end. Each end is laying out a long list of examples of violence, rhetoric and incitement by the other end.

Guess what? They're both right. Facts are facts.

I have a great deal of respect for the power of ideology. It can make people say and do insane things. It can absolutely blind a person to the obvious. But is it so strong that we'd rather see this country burn down than challenge our own tribe to stop the madness?

When the hate is flowing from both ends like water from a fire hose, does it really matter which end is "worse"?

What is so terrifying about just admitting the obvious?
.

A Trump supporter Sent packages through the mail that contained bombs. Another idiot was so enraged by the hysteria preached by the blob about the migrants heading northward that he shot a dozen people in Pittsburgh.

No dumbass. Both sides aren’t right.

The guy who shot people in Pittsburgh hates Trump, moron. The Republican party or conservatives had nothing to do with those two nutbags. However, the Democrat party had everything to do with assaulting Trump supporters leaving his rallies. The Democrat party had everything to do with sneaking "protesters" into his rallies. The Democrat party supports Antifa and the BLM. Democrats support and promote violence. There simply is no doubt about that

 

[bripat9643]

No, they aren't both equally responsible. Saying such things only helps the side that is responsible.

Here we go again.

Never have I used the word "equal".

And I clearly said "When the hate is flowing from both ends like water from a fire hose, does it really matter which end is worse?"

The responses on this thread have been a non-stop illustration of its point. I couldn't have asked for a better set of examples.
.

Yeah, it does matter which side is worse.

 

[Mac1958]

No, they aren't both equally responsible. Saying such things only helps the side that is responsible.

Here we go again.

Never have I used the word "equal".

And I clearly said "When the hate is flowing from both ends like water from a fire hose, does it really matter which end is worse?"

The responses on this thread have been a non-stop illustration of its point. I couldn't have asked for a better set of examples.
.

Yeah, it does matter which side is worse.

Clean your own house first.

Until then, you're part of the problem.
.

 

[sparky]

Okay, now you are getting into Dale Smith level conspiracy crazy here

need 'facts' Joe....?

In late-night drama, Senate passes $1.3 trillion spending bill, averting government shutdown

Lawmakers of both parties seethed, saying they had scant time to read the mammoth bill, which was released less than 17 hours before the House voted.

 

[bripat9643]

No, they aren't both equally responsible. Saying such things only helps the side that is responsible.

Here we go again.

Never have I used the word "equal".

And I clearly said "When the hate is flowing from both ends like water from a fire hose, does it really matter which end is worse?"

The responses on this thread have been a non-stop illustration of its point. I couldn't have asked for a better set of examples.
.

Yeah, it does matter which side is worse.

Clean your own house first.

Until then, you're part of the problem.
.

meaningless horseshit.

 

[sparky]

No they don't both promote violence, asshole.

The responses on this thread have been a non-stop illustration of its point. I couldn't have asked for a better set of examples

cognitive dissonance at it's finest.....~S~

 

[Mac1958]

No, they aren't both equally responsible. Saying such things only helps the side that is responsible.

Here we go again.

Never have I used the word "equal".

And I clearly said "When the hate is flowing from both ends like water from a fire hose, does it really matter which end is worse?"

The responses on this thread have been a non-stop illustration of its point. I couldn't have asked for a better set of examples.
.

Yeah, it does matter which side is worse.

Clean your own house first.

Until then, you're part of the problem.
.

meaningless horseshit.

No doubt.

I'm sure that screaming and beating on things with a stick is much easier than reasoning things through.
.

 

[Mac1958]

No they don't both promote violence, asshole.

The responses on this thread have been a non-stop illustration of its point. I couldn't have asked for a better set of examples

cognitive dissonance at it's finest.....~S~

One pretty fascinating book could be written on the behaviors on this forum alone.

A one-stop shop, a microcosm, of the mess we're in, and why.
.

 

[bripat9643]

No, they aren't both equally responsible. Saying such things only helps the side that is responsible.

Here we go again.

Never have I used the word "equal".

And I clearly said "When the hate is flowing from both ends like water from a fire hose, does it really matter which end is worse?"

The responses on this thread have been a non-stop illustration of its point. I couldn't have asked for a better set of examples.
.

Yeah, it does matter which side is worse.

Clean your own house first.

Until then, you're part of the problem.
.

meaningless horseshit.

No doubt.

I'm sure that screaming and beating on things with a stick is much easier than reasoning things through.
.

Why don't you try it some time? The "both sides are responsible" meme is how stupid parents handle squabbles between their children, and it never works. One child is always responsible, and the fighting doesn't stop until that child is punished.

 

[bripat9643]

No they don't both promote violence, asshole.

The responses on this thread have been a non-stop illustration of its point. I couldn't have asked for a better set of examples

cognitive dissonance at it's finest.....~S~

One pretty fascinating book could be written on the behaviors on this forum alone.

A one-stop shop, a microcosm, of the mess we're in, and why.
.

Thousands of books that are total bullshit are written every year.

 

[Mac1958]

The "both sides are responsible" meme is how stupid parents handle squabbles between their children, and it never works.

I like your comparison to children. We agree there.
.