CDZ Why aren't we addressing the gun issue as a cultural problem?

[2aguy]

So why isn't our suicide rate just part of the culture?

Everyone has the absolute right to decide if he lives or not

Suicide is a permanent solution to a temporary problem. That's why it needs to be discouraged.

Banning guns is a good start.

Except in Japan....where only cops and criminals have guns and yet they have a higher suicide rate than we do. Somehow, they find that permanent solution to the temporary problem without any problem....

 

[2aguy]

Your neighbor might be alive if he wasn't living next to you.....posting with you here is almost enough to drive someone to suicide, I can't imagine living next to you...

So when you run out of NRA talking points, you really have nothing then?

Since I don't use NRA talking points, all of my points I make, that you can't refute, are truth, fact and reality.

 

[JoeB131]

Actually, I have listened to Doctors who say there is no reason for a late term abortion......the safest thing to do, for the mother, at that point is to give birth since they don't have to induce dilation...which takes time.....in order to do the abortion......so you are wrong again.

Yes, let's make the woman go through ANOTHER couple of months of pregnancy so they can give birth to a fetus that will die within minutes of birth... because Jesus.

Hopefully, none of these doctors have actual patients...

 

[JoeB131]

Since I don't use NRA talking points, all of my points I make, that you can't refute, are truth, fact and reality.

No, guy, you just spam every thread with these bullshit talking points, about how there are a Billion Guns and only 1 mass shooting or whatever bullshit numbers you come up with.

Every other industrial democracy bans or limits guns.

NONE of them have the kinds of problems we have.

This isn't complicated.

 

[Blues Man]

So 1second after birth it is a baby but one second before it's not?

Like I said absolutism is ridiculous

Nobody has an abortion one second before birth.

If someone is having a late abortion, there's usually a damned good reason.

It doesn't matter if it's done or not

When during gestation does a fetus become a baby?

 

[Blues Man]

So why isn't our suicide rate just part of the culture?

Everyone has the absolute right to decide if he lives or not

Suicide is a permanent solution to a temporary problem. That's why it needs to be discouraged.

Banning guns is a good start.

SO what?

People have the absolute right to decide if they live or die. Who are you to demand a person stay alive if they don't want to?

And banning guns won't stop anyone from committing suicide.

 

[2aguy]

Actually, I have listened to Doctors who say there is no reason for a late term abortion......the safest thing to do, for the mother, at that point is to give birth since they don't have to induce dilation...which takes time.....in order to do the abortion......so you are wrong again.

Yes, let's make the woman go through ANOTHER couple of months of pregnancy so they can give birth to a fetus that will die within minutes of birth... because Jesus.

Hopefully, none of these doctors have actual patients...

No, moron, they deliver the baby right away....they don't have to wait for the dilation medicine to work so they can get the baby pieces out after they kill it.

 

[2aguy]

Since I don't use NRA talking points, all of my points I make, that you can't refute, are truth, fact and reality.

No, guy, you just spam every thread with these bullshit talking points, about how there are a Billion Guns and only 1 mass shooting or whatever bullshit numbers you come up with.

Every other industrial democracy bans or limits guns.

NONE of them have the kinds of problems we have.

This isn't complicated.

Those "industrial democracies" murdered 12 million men, women and children......you never seem to remember that.....

It isn't complicated....guns in the hands of normal people save lives....every single day....

 

[2aguy]

Actually, I have listened to Doctors who say there is no reason for a late term abortion......the safest thing to do, for the mother, at that point is to give birth since they don't have to induce dilation...which takes time.....in order to do the abortion......so you are wrong again.

Yes, let's make the woman go through ANOTHER couple of months of pregnancy so they can give birth to a fetus that will die within minutes of birth... because Jesus.

Hopefully, none of these doctors have actual patients...

You don't know what you are talking about...

Former Abortion Doctor Counters Progressive Narrative: ‘You Never Need Late-Term Abortion To Save A Woman’s Life’

former abortion doctor Anthony Levatino stated that late-term abortions are never medically necessary:

We hear all the time how abortion, including especially late-term abortion, is necessary to save women's lives. Nothing could be further from the truth. I spent nine years working at a tertiary medical center. There are only certain hospitals in the country that are designated to take care of the really, really high-risk pregnancies ...

Albany Medical Center in Albany, New York, where I worked, was one of them. I was faculty at the hospital for nine years, and I saw hundreds of cases of really severe pregnancy complications – cancers, heart disease, intractable diabetes ... toxemia pregnancy, out of control. In those nine years, I saved hundreds of women from life-threatening pregnancies, and I did that by delivering them, by ending their pregnancy by delivery – either induction of labor or cesarean section...

I always tell people, in all of those years, the number of babies that I had to, that I was obligated to deliberately kill in the process was zero, none.

Levatino continued, explaining that prior to a late-term abortion, the cervix must be sufficiently dilated in order for the doctor to be able to properly extract the dismembered fetus from the uterus. The dilation process "can take anywhere from 24 to 72 hours," according to Levatino, who performed more than 1,200 abortions in his career. Many women experiencing major pregnancy complications don’t have that much time.

Levatino then spoke about a case that he encountered in his own career. A pregnant woman came to the hospital with "severe toxemia," also known as pre-eclampsia. Levatino "stabilized her, brought her back, did a cesarean section," and "had her delivered within an hour of arriving at the hospital." Both the mother and the infant of 27 weeks gestation survived. Had she waited hours for a late-term abortion, she would have likely suffered a stroke, according to Levatino.

"You never need late-term abortion to save a woman's life. If necessary, you accomplish the delivery," he said.

 

[JoeB131]

It doesn't matter if it's done or not

When during gestation does a fetus become a baby?

When the woman decides she wants a baby. That's when it's a baby. Otherwise, it's "That thing I got to take care of on Tuesday".

This isn't complicated. Her body. Her choice.

You don't know what you are talking about...

Former Abortion Doctor Counters Progressive Narrative: ‘You Never Need Late-Term Abortion To Save A Woman’s Life’

former abortion doctor Anthony Levatino stated that late-term abortions are never medically necessary:

Yeah, when "Anthony" is carrying a deformed fetus that will die seconds after it's born, then that POS can talk about what is medically necessary.

Those "industrial democracies" murdered 12 million men, women and children......you never seem to remember that.....

Guns wouldn't have changed that... We murdered millions of Native Americans... funny you guys never like to talk about that...

No, moron, they deliver the baby right away....they don't have to wait for the dilation medicine to work so they can get the baby pieces out after they kill it.

Again, guy, I don't need to hear about the Fetus porn to realize that this really, really isn't any of our business. When we have uteri, THEN we can talk about this and when it is necessary or not...

SO what?

People have the absolute right to decide if they live or die. Who are you to demand a person stay alive if they don't want to?

And banning guns won't stop anyone from committing suicide.

Sure it will. Some people won't try without an easy gun lying around. Other people might try other methods, less effective methods, and when they fail, they'll get the help they need.

Do you know what's really messed up and selfish? You guys being so keen on your fetish you are willing to tolerate 33,000 deaths.

 

[Blues Man]

It doesn't matter if it's done or not

When during gestation does a fetus become a baby?

When the woman decides she wants a baby. That's when it's a baby. Otherwise, it's "That thing I got to take care of on Tuesday".

This isn't complicated. Her body. Her choice.

You don't know what you are talking about...

Former Abortion Doctor Counters Progressive Narrative: ‘You Never Need Late-Term Abortion To Save A Woman’s Life’

former abortion doctor Anthony Levatino stated that late-term abortions are never medically necessary:

Yeah, when "Anthony" is carrying a deformed fetus that will die seconds after it's born, then that POS can talk about what is medically necessary.

Those "industrial democracies" murdered 12 million men, women and children......you never seem to remember that.....

Guns wouldn't have changed that... We murdered millions of Native Americans... funny you guys never like to talk about that...

No, moron, they deliver the baby right away....they don't have to wait for the dilation medicine to work so they can get the baby pieces out after they kill it.

Again, guy, I don't need to hear about the Fetus porn to realize that this really, really isn't any of our business. When we have uteri, THEN we can talk about this and when it is necessary or not...

SO what?

People have the absolute right to decide if they live or die. Who are you to demand a person stay alive if they don't want to?

And banning guns won't stop anyone from committing suicide.

Sure it will. Some people won't try without an easy gun lying around. Other people might try other methods, less effective methods, and when they fail, they'll get the help they need.

Do you know what's really messed up and selfish? You guys being so keen on your fetish you are willing to tolerate 33,000 deaths.

So you're an absolutist on the issue

I'm not surprised taking a reasoned stance take the ability to think

 

[Natural Citizen]

I don't have a simple legislative answer for the gun problem. There are already ten kazillion guns out there, and they're easily accessible by any maniac. So legislating along the fringes can only do so much. Can we do some legislating here and there? Sure, let's look at EVERYTHING. But legislation's efficacy will be limited and long term only.

Obviously, our poisoned political environment is going to slow down (or worse) anything major that we try to do. That appears to be the goal, for some reason. But is it possible for us all to look at this as a cultural issue? WHY is life so cheap now? HOW do people become so radicalized? WHAT pushes a damaged person over that last edge of sanity and turns them into a monster? WHEN can we step in without harming a person's liberties?

And perhaps most importantly, how can we COMMUNICATE, COLLABORATE and INNOVATE in this toxic political environment, to SAVE LIVES? Certainly we have to look at entertainment. Certainly we have to look at partisan politics from a macro perspective. Certainly we have to look at the internet. There are some things we all can consider. No?

I think MOST of our problems are cultural, directly or indirectly. This is another example. But we're tying our own hands.
.

Here's a great paper on just this very thing. Which I find agreeable.

Seven Principles of Liberty


Copypasta snippet...


First, we must understand that liberty is based upon fundamental principles and not philosophies or policies. Principles, which are based on truth, are constant and timeless; philosophies and policies are variable and changing and are based upon theories, circumstances and opinion. Second, we must recognize that liberty is not free. It must be both earned and guarded. Lastly, we must realize that liberty requires public morality or virtue. The greatest, and probably most generally unrecognized, threat to our liberty today results from the gradual erosion of virtue. This decay has resulted from negligence and apathy on the part of many and from calculated attacks on the part of a few. The invasive roots of its opposing influences have crept deeper into the soil of our communities while we have slept, and in some cases, while we have been thwarted in our efforts to eradicate their causes. James Madison stated: "I believe that there are more instances of the abridgment of the freedom of the people by gradual and silent encroachment of those in power than by violent and sudden usurpations." When the policies and practices of the nation favor rights in exclusion of responsibility, and sanction vice at the expense of virtue, calamity is imminent. The impending consequences of the ruin of public virtue, which already cast a dark shadow across our nation, now loom on the horizon as a force destructive to our society, our government and our very peace and happiness.

I believe that except we become vigilant in understanding and upholding liberty's principles, we shall lose all which is attached to it: our national unity, our security, our peace and our prosperity. No person who loves liberty, can, in the face of the danger of its loss, stand idly by when life itself and the pursuit of happiness, hang so precipitously in the balance. A modern statesman, J. Reuben Clark, Jr., said: "We stand in danger of losing our liberties, and . . . once lost, only blood will bring them back . . ." In order to preserve liberty we must not only pledge allegiance, but prove loyal in deed to the standards upon which it is founded. Our Founding Fathers mutually pledged their lives, their fortunes and their sacred honor to the cause of liberty. May we commit anything less and stand worthy of its benefaction?

With these thoughts in my mind and heart, I respectfully present this compilation of seven principles of liberty -- principles distilled from the wisdom and inspiration of our Founding Fathers and patriots both ancient and modern -- principles which have been proven in the crucible of individual and collective experience and history.

"[T]he preservation of the sacred fire of liberty . . . [is] finally staked,
on the experiment entrusted to the hands of the American People."
George Washington

 

[JoeB131]

So you're an absolutist on the issue

I'm not surprised taking a reasoned stance take the ability to think

No, I'm a pragmatist on the issue.

If a woman doesn't want to be pregnant, SHE WILL FIND A WAY TO NOT BE PREGNANT.

Unless you are going to put her under house arrest from conception to delivery.

Unlike countries that have very successfully banned guns, no one has ever really made an abortion ban work. I've often cited the Philippines, which has the kinds of laws you guys want, but they still have 800,000 illegal abortions a year with 4000 women injured in the process. Given that the Philippines are more religious and less free than we are, and THEY can't make a law like this work, what makes you think we can?

 

[Blues Man]

So you're an absolutist on the issue

I'm not surprised taking a reasoned stance take the ability to think

No, I'm a pragmatist on the issue.

If a woman doesn't want to be pregnant, SHE WILL FIND A WAY TO NOT BE PREGNANT.

Unless you are going to put her under house arrest from conception to delivery.

Unlike countries that have very successfully banned guns, no one has ever really made an abortion ban work. I've often cited the Philippines, which has the kinds of laws you guys want, but they still have 800,000 illegal abortions a year with 4000 women injured in the process. Given that the Philippines are more religious and less free than we are, and THEY can't make a law like this work, what makes you think we can?

I have no problem with a woman getting an abortion.

But I also realize that at some point during gestation the fetus is not a fetus anymore

The black and white stance that you people call for is unreasonable and unintelligent

 

[JoeB131]

I have no problem with a woman getting an abortion.

But I also realize that at some point during gestation the fetus is not a fetus anymore

The black and white stance that you people call for is unreasonable and unintelligent

no, it's a practical one.

unreasonable is telling a woman that she has to carry through a pregnancy of a deformed fetus to watch it suffer and die horribly after it is born, or bankrupt her with medical bills. That's unreasonable and unintelligent.

No one is aborting healthy third trimester fetuses... If there's a third trimester abortion, there's usually a damned good reason for it. It's usually a pregnancy someone wanted, names were picked out, nurseries were set aside...and then you get the worst news you can possibly get.

And some religious jackhole is going to tell you what to do in that case.

 

[Blues Man]

I have no problem with a woman getting an abortion.

But I also realize that at some point during gestation the fetus is not a fetus anymore

The black and white stance that you people call for is unreasonable and unintelligent

no, it's a practical one.

unreasonable is telling a woman that she has to carry through a pregnancy of a deformed fetus to watch it suffer and die horribly after it is born, or bankrupt her with medical bills. That's unreasonable and unintelligent.

No one is aborting healthy third trimester fetuses... If there's a third trimester abortion, there's usually a damned good reason for it. It's usually a pregnancy someone wanted, names were picked out, nurseries were set aside...and then you get the worst news you can possibly get.

And some religious jackhole is going to tell you what to do in that case.

And again all that can be done rather early in the pregnancy.

I'm not bringing religion into this at all so you can stop that shit right now.

I just find it interesting and a little alarming that people like you think that a fetus isn't a baby until after it is born

 

[2aguy]

I have no problem with a woman getting an abortion.

But I also realize that at some point during gestation the fetus is not a fetus anymore

The black and white stance that you people call for is unreasonable and unintelligent

no, it's a practical one.

unreasonable is telling a woman that she has to carry through a pregnancy of a deformed fetus to watch it suffer and die horribly after it is born, or bankrupt her with medical bills. That's unreasonable and unintelligent.

No one is aborting healthy third trimester fetuses... If there's a third trimester abortion, there's usually a damned good reason for it. It's usually a pregnancy someone wanted, names were picked out, nurseries were set aside...and then you get the worst news you can possibly get.

And some religious jackhole is going to tell you what to do in that case.

No one is aborting healthy third trimester fetuses...

And that is a lie.

 

[JoeB131]

And again all that can be done rather early in the pregnancy.

I'm not bringing religion into this at all so you can stop that shit right now.

I just find it interesting and a little alarming that people like you think that a fetus isn't a baby until after it is born

You can find is as "alarming" as you want. Personally, it isn't any of my business when a woman wants to end a pregnancy, and it isn't yours.

Once you get into the stupidity of calling fetuses people, you get the lady who had a miscarriage and was charged with a crime. That's the kind of crazy you guys want, and no, I have no use for it.

No one is aborting healthy third trimester fetuses...

And that is a lie.

Whatever, dude. You really think there's a woman out there who goes through eight months of morning sickness and body distortion and says, "Meh, fuck it, I'm aborting this otherwise perfectly healthy fetus!"

There aren't... Just like the aren't 1.5 million gun nuts who get the drop on a darkie every year and don't shoot.

 

[Blues Man]

And again all that can be done rather early in the pregnancy.

I'm not bringing religion into this at all so you can stop that shit right now.

I just find it interesting and a little alarming that people like you think that a fetus isn't a baby until after it is born

You can find is as "alarming" as you want. Personally, it isn't any of my business when a woman wants to end a pregnancy, and it isn't yours.

Once you get into the stupidity of calling fetuses people, you get the lady who had a miscarriage and was charged with a crime. That's the kind of crazy you guys want, and no, I have no use for it.

No one is aborting healthy third trimester fetuses...

And that is a lie.

Whatever, dude. You really think there's a woman out there who goes through eight months of morning sickness and body distortion and says, "Meh, fuck it, I'm aborting this otherwise perfectly healthy fetus!"

There aren't... Just like the aren't 1.5 million gun nuts who get the drop on a darkie every year and don't shoot.

But it is your business if someone wants to commit suicide

It must be exhausting to hold so many contradictory thoughts

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

 

[JoeB131]

But it is your business if someone wants to commit suicide

It must be exhausting to hold so many contradictory thoughts

Not at all.

Suicide victims are people.

Fetuses aren't.

No contradiction at all.

When we have a census next year, we aren't counting fetuses. (In fact, if you ever worked as a census enumerator, they go into a very complicated thing about when you can count a newborn.)