CDZ Why aren't we addressing the gun issue as a cultural problem?

[Mikeoxenormous]

No we have a crime issue. When you dont execute murderers, rapists and child molesters, you give them a chance to be a repeat offender. When their heads are separated from their shoulders, they cannot every commit the crime again.

If that were the case, the states with a Death Penalty would have lower murder rates than the states without. They don't.

33,000 gun deaths 20,000 of them suicide. And we all know Joe that if someone wants to kill themselves they will kill themselves one way or another. Nice of you to point that out Joe. Your Truth again over Facts I see. Not a single link that proves your point.

Quite the contrary,most suicide attempts don't try a second time if they fail, but gun suicides are 95% successful.

https://www.quora.com/What-percenta...icide-will-attempt-it-again-after-being-saved

So by banning guns, you won't save everyone... but you will save some people.

When it takes 30 years to put someone to death on death row, it isn't the death penalty...it is called the "old age" penalty.


Jumping in front of a bullet train is just as fatal as gun shot wounds......and Japan, with its extreme gun control has a higher suicide rate than we do....guns are not the issue in suicide...

Fact Check, Gun Control and Suicide



There is no relation between suicide rate and gun ownership rates around the world. According to the 2016 World Health Statistics report, (2) suicide rates in the four countries cited as having restrictive gun control laws have suicide rates that are comparable to that in the U. S.: Australia, 11.6, Canada, 11.4, France, 15.8, UK, 7.0, and USA 13.7 suicides/100,000. By comparison, Japan has among the highest suicide rates in the world, 23.1/100,000, but gun ownership is extremely rare, 0.6 guns/100 people.

Suicide is a mental health issue. If guns are not available other means are used. Poisoning, in fact, is the most common method of suicide for U. S. females according to the Washington Post (34 % of suicides), and suffocation the second most common method for males (27%).

Secondly, gun ownership rates in France and Canada are not low, as is implied in the Post article. The rate of gun ownership in the U. S. is indeed high at 88.8 guns/100 residents, but gun ownership rates are also among the world’s highest in the other countries cited. Gun ownership rates in these countries are are as follows: Australia, 15, Canada, 30.8, France, 31.2, and UK 6.2 per 100 residents. (3,4) Gun ownership rates in Saudia Arabia are comparable to that in Canada and France, with 37.8 guns per 100 Saudi residents, yet the lowest suicide rate in the world is in Saudia Arabia (0.3 suicides per 100,000).

Third, recent statistics in the state of Florida show that nearly one third of the guns used in suicides are obtained illegally, putting these firearm deaths beyond control through gun laws.(5)

Fourth, the primary factors affecting suicide rates are personal stresses, cultural, economic, religious factors and demographics. According to the WHO statistics, the highest rates of suicide in the world are in the Republic of Korea, with 36.8 suicides per 100,000, but India, Japan, Russia, and Hungary all have rates above 20 per 100,000; roughly twice as high as the U.S. and the four countries that are the basis for the Post’s calculation that gun control would reduce U.S. suicide rates by 20 to 38 percent. Lebanon, Oman, and Iraq all have suicide rates below 1.1 per 100,000 people--less than 1/10 the suicide rate in the U. S., and Afghanistan, Algeria, Jamaica, Haiti, and Egypt have low suicide rates that are below 4 per 100,000 in contrast to 13.7 suicides/100,000 in the U. S.

And to think that liberals want to take the human way of voluntary self suicide away from those who want to, while endorsing euthanasia for old people, and abortion on demand. So you want people to go out and cut their wrists or take pills which are more likely to cause inhumane suffering over a long period of time? So much for liberal compassion.

 

[JoeB131]

When it takes 30 years to put someone to death on death row, it isn't the death penalty...it is called the "old age" penalty.

No, it's just not much of a deterent no matter how quickly it is done.

This is what you guys don't get.

Most murders are either

Acts of Madness - in which case, they aren't thinking through the consequences.
Acts of Passion- in which case they aren't thinking through the consequences...

Or Premeditated Acts, in which case, the person thinks he's REALLY CLEVER and won't get caught. Of course most people aren't really clever, so they are.

The DP has no deterrent value.. it's why DP states have higher murder rates than non-DP states..

Jumping in front of a bullet train is just as fatal as gun shot wounds......and Japan, with its extreme gun control has a higher suicide rate than we do....guns are not the issue in suicide...

Japan has a culture where suicide is acceptable and in some cases, demanded. We have one where it's a mortal sin.

Oh, very few people throw themselves in front of trains in Japan.

So, will we save every suicidal person by banning your fetish? Nope. Will we save some? Yup. Good enough for me.

 

[JoeB131]

And to think that liberals want to take the human way of voluntary self suicide away from those who want to, while endorsing euthanasia for old people, and abortion on demand. So you want people to go out and cut their wrists or take pills which are more likely to cause inhumane suffering over a long period of time? So much for liberal compassion.

Fetuses aren't people.

I'm personally against Euthanasia... because the last thing I want is for big insurance to be able to say, "Well, we'll pay for the hot-shot... you're gonna die, anyway!"

 

[Mikeoxenormous]

And to think that liberals want to take the human way of voluntary self suicide away from those who want to, while endorsing euthanasia for old people, and abortion on demand. So you want people to go out and cut their wrists or take pills which are more likely to cause inhumane suffering over a long period of time? So much for liberal compassion.

Fetuses aren't people.

I'm personally against Euthanasia... because the last thing I want is for big insurance to be able to say, "Well, we'll pay for the hot-shot... you're gonna die, anyway!"

Fetuses aren't people.

Neither are you Joe.

 

[Blues Man]

And to think that liberals want to take the human way of voluntary self suicide away from those who want to, while endorsing euthanasia for old people, and abortion on demand. So you want people to go out and cut their wrists or take pills which are more likely to cause inhumane suffering over a long period of time? So much for liberal compassion.

Fetuses aren't people.

I'm personally against Euthanasia... because the last thing I want is for big insurance to be able to say, "Well, we'll pay for the hot-shot... you're gonna die, anyway!"

Even an idiot like you has to realize that at some point during gestation the fetus becomes a baby

It's stupid to take a hard line on abortion.

For one birth control is easy and cheap and whenever that fetus is deemed a baby there is plenty of time to get an abortion even in incidences of rape

 

[JoeB131]

Neither are you Joe.

Awesome, I guess I can stop paying taxes, then?

 

[JoeB131]

Even an idiot like you has to realize that at some point during gestation the fetus becomes a baby

It's stupid to take a hard line on abortion.

For one birth control is easy and cheap and whenever that fetus is deemed a baby there is plenty of time to get an abortion even in incidences of rape

First, this is a gun control thread, i don't want to get into the weeds of abortion and fetus porn here.

Secondly, it doesn't really matter what I think about when a fetus becomes a person. The only person who has a say in such a matter is the woman it is inside.

If she wants it, "the baby is due in September".

if she doesn't, "I've got to take care of that thing on Tuesday".

Third, Contraception doesn't always work. It isn't always used.

Fourth, if you are going to say abortion is okay in cases of rape, then it's okay in all cases. We don't execute people for the crimes of their parents. If you really think fetuses are people, then killing the rape baby is wrong.

 

[2aguy]

When it takes 30 years to put someone to death on death row, it isn't the death penalty...it is called the "old age" penalty.

No, it's just not much of a deterent no matter how quickly it is done.

This is what you guys don't get.

Most murders are either

Acts of Madness - in which case, they aren't thinking through the consequences.
Acts of Passion- in which case they aren't thinking through the consequences...

Or Premeditated Acts, in which case, the person thinks he's REALLY CLEVER and won't get caught. Of course most people aren't really clever, so they are.

The DP has no deterrent value.. it's why DP states have higher murder rates than non-DP states..

Jumping in front of a bullet train is just as fatal as gun shot wounds......and Japan, with its extreme gun control has a higher suicide rate than we do....guns are not the issue in suicide...

Japan has a culture where suicide is acceptable and in some cases, demanded. We have one where it's a mortal sin.

Oh, very few people throw themselves in front of trains in Japan.

So, will we save every suicidal person by banning your fetish? Nope. Will we save some? Yup. Good enough for me.

Wrong......... you say guns drive suicide.....Japan shows you don't know what you are talking about.....and it isn't just Japan...

Fact Check, Gun Control and Suicide



There is no relation between suicide rate and gun ownership rates around the world. According to the 2016 World Health Statistics report, (2) suicide rates in the four countries cited as having restrictive gun control laws have suicide rates that are comparable to that in the U. S.: Australia, 11.6, Canada, 11.4, France, 15.8, UK, 7.0, and USA 13.7 suicides/100,000. By comparison, Japan has among the highest suicide rates in the world, 23.1/100,000, but gun ownership is extremely rare, 0.6 guns/100 people.

Suicide is a mental health issue. If guns are not available other means are used. Poisoning, in fact, is the most common method of suicide for U. S. females according to the Washington Post (34 % of suicides), and suffocation the second most common method for males (27%).

Secondly, gun ownership rates in France and Canada are not low, as is implied in the Post article. The rate of gun ownership in the U. S. is indeed high at 88.8 guns/100 residents, but gun ownership rates are also among the world’s highest in the other countries cited. Gun ownership rates in these countries are are as follows: Australia, 15, Canada, 30.8, France, 31.2, and UK 6.2 per 100 residents. (3,4) Gun ownership rates in Saudia Arabia are comparable to that in Canada and France, with 37.8 guns per 100 Saudi residents, yet the lowest suicide rate in the world is in Saudia Arabia (0.3 suicides per 100,000).

Third, recent statistics in the state of Florida show that nearly one third of the guns used in suicides are obtained illegally, putting these firearm deaths beyond control through gun laws.(5)

Fourth, the primary factors affecting suicide rates are personal stresses, cultural, economic, religious factors and demographics. According to the WHO statistics, the highest rates of suicide in the world are in the Republic of Korea, with 36.8 suicides per 100,000, but India, Japan, Russia, and Hungary all have rates above 20 per 100,000; roughly twice as high as the U.S. and the four countries that are the basis for the Post’s calculation that gun control would reduce U.S. suicide rates by 20 to 38 percent. Lebanon, Oman, and Iraq all have suicide rates below 1.1 per 100,000 people--less than 1/10 the suicide rate in the U. S., and Afghanistan, Algeria, Jamaica, Haiti, and Egypt have low suicide rates that are below 4 per 100,000 in contrast to 13.7 suicides/100,000 in the U. S.

 

[Mikeoxenormous]

When it takes 30 years to put someone to death on death row, it isn't the death penalty...it is called the "old age" penalty.

No, it's just not much of a deterent no matter how quickly it is done.

This is what you guys don't get.

Most murders are either

Acts of Madness - in which case, they aren't thinking through the consequences.
Acts of Passion- in which case they aren't thinking through the consequences...

Or Premeditated Acts, in which case, the person thinks he's REALLY CLEVER and won't get caught. Of course most people aren't really clever, so they are.

The DP has no deterrent value.. it's why DP states have higher murder rates than non-DP states..

Jumping in front of a bullet train is just as fatal as gun shot wounds......and Japan, with its extreme gun control has a higher suicide rate than we do....guns are not the issue in suicide...

Japan has a culture where suicide is acceptable and in some cases, demanded. We have one where it's a mortal sin.

Oh, very few people throw themselves in front of trains in Japan.

So, will we save every suicidal person by banning your fetish? Nope. Will we save some? Yup. Good enough for me.

Wrong......... you say guns drive suicide.....Japan shows you don't know what you are talking about.....and it isn't just Japan...

Fact Check, Gun Control and Suicide



There is no relation between suicide rate and gun ownership rates around the world. According to the 2016 World Health Statistics report, (2) suicide rates in the four countries cited as having restrictive gun control laws have suicide rates that are comparable to that in the U. S.: Australia, 11.6, Canada, 11.4, France, 15.8, UK, 7.0, and USA 13.7 suicides/100,000. By comparison, Japan has among the highest suicide rates in the world, 23.1/100,000, but gun ownership is extremely rare, 0.6 guns/100 people.

Suicide is a mental health issue. If guns are not available other means are used. Poisoning, in fact, is the most common method of suicide for U. S. females according to the Washington Post (34 % of suicides), and suffocation the second most common method for males (27%).

Secondly, gun ownership rates in France and Canada are not low, as is implied in the Post article. The rate of gun ownership in the U. S. is indeed high at 88.8 guns/100 residents, but gun ownership rates are also among the world’s highest in the other countries cited. Gun ownership rates in these countries are are as follows: Australia, 15, Canada, 30.8, France, 31.2, and UK 6.2 per 100 residents. (3,4) Gun ownership rates in Saudia Arabia are comparable to that in Canada and France, with 37.8 guns per 100 Saudi residents, yet the lowest suicide rate in the world is in Saudia Arabia (0.3 suicides per 100,000).

Third, recent statistics in the state of Florida show that nearly one third of the guns used in suicides are obtained illegally, putting these firearm deaths beyond control through gun laws.(5)

Fourth, the primary factors affecting suicide rates are personal stresses, cultural, economic, religious factors and demographics. According to the WHO statistics, the highest rates of suicide in the world are in the Republic of Korea, with 36.8 suicides per 100,000, but India, Japan, Russia, and Hungary all have rates above 20 per 100,000; roughly twice as high as the U.S. and the four countries that are the basis for the Post’s calculation that gun control would reduce U.S. suicide rates by 20 to 38 percent. Lebanon, Oman, and Iraq all have suicide rates below 1.1 per 100,000 people--less than 1/10 the suicide rate in the U. S., and Afghanistan, Algeria, Jamaica, Haiti, and Egypt have low suicide rates that are below 4 per 100,000 in contrast to 13.7 suicides/100,000 in the U. S.

Joe is a sixpack short of IQ. Which is why he likes to blather without knowing what he is blathering about.
A saying about Joe..

 

[JoeB131]

Wrong......... you say guns drive suicide.....Japan shows you don't know what you are talking about.....and it isn't just Japan...

I'm saying we'd have less suicides if we banned guns.. in which case we would. When the UK Banned coal gas in oven (the leading cause of suicides in the UK up to that point), the suicide rate went down.

Joe is a sixpack short of IQ. Which is why he likes to blather without knowing what he is blathering about.

But yet I leave you a in the dust every time...I'm surprised you had the courage to finally take me off Ignore.

 

[2aguy]

Wrong......... you say guns drive suicide.....Japan shows you don't know what you are talking about.....and it isn't just Japan...

I'm saying we'd have less suicides if we banned guns.. in which case we would. When the UK Banned coal gas in oven (the leading cause of suicides in the UK up to that point), the suicide rate went down.

Joe is a sixpack short of IQ. Which is why he likes to blather without knowing what he is blathering about.

But yet I leave you a in the dust every time...I'm surprised you had the courage to finally take me off Ignore.

Wrong....as Japan shows.....suicide is not reduced by lack of guns....again, as Japan shows.

 

[JoeB131]

Wrong....as Japan shows.....suicide is not reduced by lack of guns....again, as Japan shows.

No, when you have a culture that says you should kill yourself rather than embarrass your family, you are going to get a lot of suicides..

I know my next door neighbor would be alive today if he didn't have a gun. Case closed.

 

[Blues Man]

Even an idiot like you has to realize that at some point during gestation the fetus becomes a baby

It's stupid to take a hard line on abortion.

For one birth control is easy and cheap and whenever that fetus is deemed a baby there is plenty of time to get an abortion even in incidences of rape

First, this is a gun control thread, i don't want to get into the weeds of abortion and fetus porn here.

Secondly, it doesn't really matter what I think about when a fetus becomes a person. The only person who has a say in such a matter is the woman it is inside.

If she wants it, "the baby is due in September".

if she doesn't, "I've got to take care of that thing on Tuesday".

Third, Contraception doesn't always work. It isn't always used.

Fourth, if you are going to say abortion is okay in cases of rape, then it's okay in all cases. We don't execute people for the crimes of their parents. If you really think fetuses are people, then killing the rape baby is wrong.

So 1second after birth it is a baby but one second before it's not?

Like I said absolutism is ridiculous

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

 

[Blues Man]

Wrong....as Japan shows.....suicide is not reduced by lack of guns....again, as Japan shows.

No, when you have a culture that says you should kill yourself rather than embarrass your family, you are going to get a lot of suicides..

I know my next door neighbor would be alive today if he didn't have a gun. Case closed.

So why isn't our suicide rate just part of the culture?

Everyone has the absolute right to decide if he lives or not

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

 

[2aguy]

Wrong....as Japan shows.....suicide is not reduced by lack of guns....again, as Japan shows.

No, when you have a culture that says you should kill yourself rather than embarrass your family, you are going to get a lot of suicides..

I know my next door neighbor would be alive today if he didn't have a gun. Case closed.

Your neighbor might be alive if he wasn't living next to you.....posting with you here is almost enough to drive someone to suicide, I can't imagine living next to you...

 

[JoeB131]

So 1second after birth it is a baby but one second before it's not?

Like I said absolutism is ridiculous

Nobody has an abortion one second before birth.

If someone is having a late abortion, there's usually a damned good reason.

 

[JoeB131]

Your neighbor might be alive if he wasn't living next to you.....posting with you here is almost enough to drive someone to suicide, I can't imagine living next to you...

So when you run out of NRA talking points, you really have nothing then?

 

[JoeB131]

So why isn't our suicide rate just part of the culture?

Everyone has the absolute right to decide if he lives or not

Suicide is a permanent solution to a temporary problem. That's why it needs to be discouraged.

Banning guns is a good start.

 

[harmonica]

Where's the STFU button? Actually I agree with Mac on this. The problem is cultural, not with guns. The guns have always been there; undisciplined, apathetic, grown tantrum babies have not.

humans have been murdering since they were human

 

[2aguy]

So 1second after birth it is a baby but one second before it's not?

Like I said absolutism is ridiculous

Nobody has an abortion one second before birth.

If someone is having a late abortion, there's usually a damned good reason.

Actually, I have listened to Doctors who say there is no reason for a late term abortion......the safest thing to do, for the mother, at that point is to give birth since they don't have to induce dilation...which takes time.....in order to do the abortion......so you are wrong again.