CDZ Why aren't we addressing the gun issue as a cultural problem?

[miketx]

I don't have a simple legislative answer for the gun problem. There are already ten kazillion guns out there, and they're easily accessible by any maniac. So legislating along the fringes can only do so much. Can we do some legislating here and there? Sure, let's look at EVERYTHING. But legislation's efficacy will be limited and long term only.

Obviously, our poisoned political environment is going to slow down (or worse) anything major that we try to do. That appears to be the goal, for some reason. But is it possible for us all to look at this as a cultural issue? WHY is life so cheap now? HOW do people become so radicalized? WHAT pushes a damaged person over that last edge of sanity and turns them into a monster? WHEN can we step in without harming a person's liberties?

And perhaps most importantly, how can we COMMUNICATE, COLLABORATE and INNOVATE in this toxic political environment, to SAVE LIVES? Certainly we have to look at entertainment. Certainly we have to look at partisan politics from a macro perspective. Certainly we have to look at the internet. There are some things we all can consider. No?

I think MOST of our problems are cultural, directly or indirectly. This is another example. But we're tying our own hands.
.

Why don't you stop letting violent criminals out of prison and stop plea bargaining them and paroling them? Why don't you try something that actually would work?

Huh? I do what?

Do you EVER make sense?
.

I make plenty of sense but not to liberals like you. Like I said already, not ONE of you people are for curing the problem and punishing criminals. You want to punish the people who haven't broken any laws.

 

[Mac1958]

I don't have a simple legislative answer for the gun problem. There are already ten kazillion guns out there, and they're easily accessible by any maniac. So legislating along the fringes can only do so much. Can we do some legislating here and there? Sure, let's look at EVERYTHING. But legislation's efficacy will be limited and long term only.

Obviously, our poisoned political environment is going to slow down (or worse) anything major that we try to do. That appears to be the goal, for some reason. But is it possible for us all to look at this as a cultural issue? WHY is life so cheap now? HOW do people become so radicalized? WHAT pushes a damaged person over that last edge of sanity and turns them into a monster? WHEN can we step in without harming a person's liberties?

And perhaps most importantly, how can we COMMUNICATE, COLLABORATE and INNOVATE in this toxic political environment, to SAVE LIVES? Certainly we have to look at entertainment. Certainly we have to look at partisan politics from a macro perspective. Certainly we have to look at the internet. There are some things we all can consider. No?

I think MOST of our problems are cultural, directly or indirectly. This is another example. But we're tying our own hands.
.

Why don't you stop letting violent criminals out of prison and stop plea bargaining them and paroling them? Why don't you try something that actually would work?

Huh? I do what?

Do you EVER make sense?
.

I make plenty of sense but not to liberals like you. Like I said already, not ONE of you people are for curing the problem and punishing criminals. You want to punish the people who haven't broken any laws.

I'm sure telling people want they "want" makes it easier to make a "point", but that doesn't make your "points" accurate.

You clearly don't know my politics.
.

 

[JoeB131]

I'm sure telling people want they "want" makes it easier to make a "point", but that doesn't make your "points" accurate.

You clearly don't know my politics.

Yeah, we all kind of do... you'd like conservatism to be less embarrassing to you...

 

[2aguy]

Moron....we keep letting repeat, violent gun offenders out of prison......

Locking up killers is the answer, you dope.

We lock up more people than any other country in the world... 50 times more than other industrial democracies, more than Communist China with five times as many people.

If locking them up was the answer, we'd have sovled the problem by now.

The reality - we have a prison industrial complex that renders a sizeable portion of the population unemployable.

Moron......democrats keep letting the violent killers out of prison....that is the problem, not how many are locked up, but which ones the democrats keep letting out.

 

[JoeB131]

Moron......democrats keep letting the violent killers out of prison....that is the problem, not how many are locked up, but which ones the democrats keep letting out.

We lock up 2 million people. Locking people up doesn't help. Probably makes things worse.

Most people who are murdered are murdered by people they know... guns just make that easier.

Every mass shooter had no problem getting a gun because they are just too easy to get.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

I don't have a simple legislative answer for the gun problem. There are already ten kazillion guns out there, and they're easily accessible by any maniac. So legislating along the fringes can only do so much. Can we do some legislating here and there? Sure, let's look at EVERYTHING. But legislation's efficacy will be limited and long term only.

Obviously, our poisoned political environment is going to slow down (or worse) anything major that we try to do. That appears to be the goal, for some reason. But is it possible for us all to look at this as a cultural issue? WHY is life so cheap now? HOW do people become so radicalized? WHAT pushes a damaged person over that last edge of sanity and turns them into a monster? WHEN can we step in without harming a person's liberties?

And perhaps most importantly, how can we COMMUNICATE, COLLABORATE and INNOVATE in this toxic political environment, to SAVE LIVES? Certainly we have to look at entertainment. Certainly we have to look at partisan politics from a macro perspective. Certainly we have to look at the internet. There are some things we all can consider. No?

I think MOST of our problems are cultural, directly or indirectly. This is another example. But we're tying our own hands.
.

America doesn't have a gun issue we have a doctor issue.

 

[Mikeoxenormous]

Moron......democrats keep letting the violent killers out of prison....that is the problem, not how many are locked up, but which ones the democrats keep letting out.

We lock up 2 million people. Locking people up doesn't help. Probably makes things worse.

Most people who are murdered are murdered by people they know... guns just make that easier.

Every mass shooter had no problem getting a gun because they are just too easy to get.

Knives kill more people than an AR-15.

FBI Stats Show Knives Kill Far More People Than Rifles In America – It’s Not Even Close

However, recent statistics from 2016 show that knives actually kill nearly five times as many people as rifles that year.

According to the FBI, 1,604 people were killed by “knives and cutting instruments” and 374 were killed by “rifles” in 2016.

Cars kill more people than Knives, but as typical of a liberal voter, they are totally clueless to the "FACTS" as Joe(the groper) Biden put it. "Truth over Facts". Facts to a liberal , is like garlic to a vampire.

 

[Mikeoxenormous]

I don't have a simple legislative answer for the gun problem. There are already ten kazillion guns out there, and they're easily accessible by any maniac. So legislating along the fringes can only do so much. Can we do some legislating here and there? Sure, let's look at EVERYTHING. But legislation's efficacy will be limited and long term only.

Obviously, our poisoned political environment is going to slow down (or worse) anything major that we try to do. That appears to be the goal, for some reason. But is it possible for us all to look at this as a cultural issue? WHY is life so cheap now? HOW do people become so radicalized? WHAT pushes a damaged person over that last edge of sanity and turns them into a monster? WHEN can we step in without harming a person's liberties?

And perhaps most importantly, how can we COMMUNICATE, COLLABORATE and INNOVATE in this toxic political environment, to SAVE LIVES? Certainly we have to look at entertainment. Certainly we have to look at partisan politics from a macro perspective. Certainly we have to look at the internet. There are some things we all can consider. No?

I think MOST of our problems are cultural, directly or indirectly. This is another example. But we're tying our own hands.
.

America doesn't have a gun issue we have a doctor issue.

America has an immorality issue, when you get rid of all the immoral people, then only happiness and bliss is the end result, not poverty and misery that the liberals FORCE upon us.

 

[JoeB131]

America doesn't have a gun issue we have a doctor issue.

No, we have a gun issue.

33,000 gun deaths
70,000 gun injuries
400,000 gun crimes
$270,000,000,000 in economic losses due to guns.

 

[JoeB131]

Cars kill more people than Knives, but as typical of a liberal voter, they are totally clueless to the "FACTS" as Joe(the groper) Biden put it. "Truth over Facts". Facts to a liberal , is like garlic to a vampire.

Again, 33,000 gun deaths a year.

But I'm all for treating guns like cars.

That means we have licensing, insurance, enforcement and we can take your car away if you abuse the privilege.

Works for me.

 

[Mikeoxenormous]

America doesn't have a gun issue we have a doctor issue.

No, we have a gun issue.

33,000 gun deaths
70,000 gun injuries
400,000 gun crimes
$270,000,000,000 in economic losses due to guns.

No we have a crime issue. When you dont execute murderers, rapists and child molesters, you give them a chance to be a repeat offender. When their heads are separated from their shoulders, they cannot every commit the crime again.

33,000 gun deaths 20,000 of them suicide. And we all know Joe that if someone wants to kill themselves they will kill themselves one way or another. Nice of you to point that out Joe. Your Truth again over Facts I see. Not a single link that proves your point.

Suicides account for most gun deaths

 

[Mikeoxenormous]

Cars kill more people than Knives, but as typical of a liberal voter, they are totally clueless to the "FACTS" as Joe(the groper) Biden put it. "Truth over Facts". Facts to a liberal , is like garlic to a vampire.

Again, 33,000 gun deaths a year.

But I'm all for treating guns like cars.

That means we have licensing, insurance, enforcement and we can take your car away if you abuse the privilege.

Works for me.

Bwaaaaahhaaaaaaaaa….You are such a little girl...

 

[bigrebnc1775]

America doesn't have a gun issue we have a doctor issue.

No, we have a gun issue.

33,000 gun deaths
70,000 gun injuries
400,000 gun crimes
$270,000,000,000 in economic losses due to guns.

Doctors kill more people than 1000 ar's do your gun deaths are attributed to suicides drug and gang-related gun injuries are a lie gun crimes is why we need more guns
Based on an analysis of prior research, the Johns Hopkins study estimates that more than 250,000 Americans die each year from medical errors. On the CDC’s official list, that would rank just behind heart disease and cancer, which each took about 600,000 lives in 2014, and in front of respiratory disease, which caused about 150,000 deaths.
Study Urges CDC to Revise Count of Deaths from Medical Error — ProPublica

 

[2aguy]

America doesn't have a gun issue we have a doctor issue.

No, we have a gun issue.

33,000 gun deaths
70,000 gun injuries
400,000 gun crimes
$270,000,000,000 in economic losses due to guns.

No...we have democrats letting violent repeat gun offenders out of jail issue....... the people doing the shooting have multiple felony convictions, have been let out of prison...over and over again....

And, on the other side.....you fail to mention that only 10,982 of the 33,000 are actual gun murders, the rest are suicide.....and you fail to mention that Americans use their legal guns 1.1 million times a year to save lives....and as to costs?



Case Closed: Kleck Is Still Correct



Consider that in the 1992 NSDS 46% of those reporting DGUs believed someone “might have” – “probably would have” – or “almost certainly would have” been killed otherwise. Even of 1.1 million DGUs, nearly half may have saved a life (and we ought to assume, conservatively, that at least the 16% “almost certainly” did).
-----------------
If this 1/3 vs. 2/3 ratio of deaths to injuries in actual shootings pertains in these DGUs, that makes for at least 176,000 lives saved—less some attackers who lost their lives to defenders. This enormous benefit dwarfs, both in human and economic terms, the losses trumpeted by hoplophobes who only choose to see the risk side of the equation.




==============
Annual Defensive Gun Use Savings Dwarf Study's "Gun Violence" Costs - The Truth About Guns

I was going to go on and calculate the costs of incarceration ($50K/year) saved by people killing 1527 criminals annually, and then look at the lifetime cost to society of an average criminal (something in excess of $1 million). But all of that would be a drop in the bucket compared to the $1,000,000,000,000 ($1T) annual benefit of gun ownership.
--------
It’s one of the antis’ favorite tricks: cost benefit analysis omitting the benefit side of the equation. So what are the financial benefits of firearm ownership to society? Read on . . .
In my post Dennis Henigan on Chardon: Clockwork Edition, I did an analysis of how many lives were saved annually in Defensive Gun Uses (DGUs). I used extremely conservative numbers. Now I am going to use some less conservative ones.
--------------
How can we get a dollar figure from 1.88 million defensive gun uses per year? Never fear, faithful reader, we can count on the .gov to calculate everything.
According to the AZ state government, in February of 2008 a human life was worth $6.5 million. Going to the Inflation Calculator and punching in the numbers gives us a present value of $6.93 million.
So figuring that the average DGU saves one half of a person’s life—as “gun violence” predominantly affects younger demographics—that gives us $3.465 million per half life.
Putting this all together, we find that the monetary benefit of guns (by way of DGUs) is roughly $1.02 trillion per year. That’s trillion. With a ‘T’.
I was going to go on and calculate the costs of incarceration ($50K/year) saved by people killing 1527 criminals annually, and then look at the lifetime cost to society of an average criminal (something in excess of $1 million). But all of that would be a drop in the bucket compared to the $1,000,000,000,000 ($1T) annual benefit of gun ownership.
When compared to the (inflation adjusted from 2002) $127.5 billion ‘cost’ of gun violence calculated by by our Ludwig-Cook buddies, guns save a little more than eight times what they “cost.”
Which, I might add, is completely irrelevant since “the freedom to own and carry the weapon of your choice is a natural, fundamental, and inalienable human, individual, civil, and Constitutional right — subject neither to the democratic process nor to arguments grounded in social utility.”
So even taking Motherboard’s own total and multiplying it by 100, the benefits to society of civilian gun ownership dwarf the associated costs.

 

[2aguy]

Cars kill more people than Knives, but as typical of a liberal voter, they are totally clueless to the "FACTS" as Joe(the groper) Biden put it. "Truth over Facts". Facts to a liberal , is like garlic to a vampire.

Again, 33,000 gun deaths a year.

But I'm all for treating guns like cars.

That means we have licensing, insurance, enforcement and we can take your car away if you abuse the privilege.

Works for me.

Except a car is not a Right....guns are.....and we already have laws that put you in jail if you abuse guns....but democrats, like you, keep letting the actual criminals with long histories of illegal gun use, out of jail....over and over again...

 

[JoeB131]

No we have a crime issue. When you dont execute murderers, rapists and child molesters, you give them a chance to be a repeat offender. When their heads are separated from their shoulders, they cannot every commit the crime again.

If that were the case, the states with a Death Penalty would have lower murder rates than the states without. They don't.

33,000 gun deaths 20,000 of them suicide. And we all know Joe that if someone wants to kill themselves they will kill themselves one way or another. Nice of you to point that out Joe. Your Truth again over Facts I see. Not a single link that proves your point.

Quite the contrary,most suicide attempts don't try a second time if they fail, but gun suicides are 95% successful.

https://www.quora.com/What-percenta...icide-will-attempt-it-again-after-being-saved

So by banning guns, you won't save everyone... but you will save some people.

 

[JoeB131]

Except a car is not a Right....guns are....

That's your interpretation, not mine.. Replace one knuckle-dragger on SCOTUS, and the Second Amendment is about Militias again...

No...we have democrats letting violent repeat gun offenders out of jail issue....... the people doing the shooting have multiple felony convictions, have been let out of prison...over and over again....

Again, we lock up 2 million people... if guns and jails make us safer, other countries wouldn't be issuing travel advisories warning people not to come here.

 

[Blues Man]

am all for denying convicted felons and people who by due process are deemed mentally ill from possessing firearms.

Not good enough.

It is for me and I don't give a shit what you think

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

 

[2aguy]

No we have a crime issue. When you dont execute murderers, rapists and child molesters, you give them a chance to be a repeat offender. When their heads are separated from their shoulders, they cannot every commit the crime again.

If that were the case, the states with a Death Penalty would have lower murder rates than the states without. They don't.

33,000 gun deaths 20,000 of them suicide. And we all know Joe that if someone wants to kill themselves they will kill themselves one way or another. Nice of you to point that out Joe. Your Truth again over Facts I see. Not a single link that proves your point.

Quite the contrary,most suicide attempts don't try a second time if they fail, but gun suicides are 95% successful.

https://www.quora.com/What-percenta...icide-will-attempt-it-again-after-being-saved

So by banning guns, you won't save everyone... but you will save some people.

When it takes 30 years to put someone to death on death row, it isn't the death penalty...it is called the "old age" penalty.


Jumping in front of a bullet train is just as fatal as gun shot wounds......and Japan, with its extreme gun control has a higher suicide rate than we do....guns are not the issue in suicide...

Fact Check, Gun Control and Suicide



There is no relation between suicide rate and gun ownership rates around the world. According to the 2016 World Health Statistics report, (2) suicide rates in the four countries cited as having restrictive gun control laws have suicide rates that are comparable to that in the U. S.: Australia, 11.6, Canada, 11.4, France, 15.8, UK, 7.0, and USA 13.7 suicides/100,000. By comparison, Japan has among the highest suicide rates in the world, 23.1/100,000, but gun ownership is extremely rare, 0.6 guns/100 people.

Suicide is a mental health issue. If guns are not available other means are used. Poisoning, in fact, is the most common method of suicide for U. S. females according to the Washington Post (34 % of suicides), and suffocation the second most common method for males (27%).

Secondly, gun ownership rates in France and Canada are not low, as is implied in the Post article. The rate of gun ownership in the U. S. is indeed high at 88.8 guns/100 residents, but gun ownership rates are also among the world’s highest in the other countries cited. Gun ownership rates in these countries are are as follows: Australia, 15, Canada, 30.8, France, 31.2, and UK 6.2 per 100 residents. (3,4) Gun ownership rates in Saudia Arabia are comparable to that in Canada and France, with 37.8 guns per 100 Saudi residents, yet the lowest suicide rate in the world is in Saudia Arabia (0.3 suicides per 100,000).

Third, recent statistics in the state of Florida show that nearly one third of the guns used in suicides are obtained illegally, putting these firearm deaths beyond control through gun laws.(5)

Fourth, the primary factors affecting suicide rates are personal stresses, cultural, economic, religious factors and demographics. According to the WHO statistics, the highest rates of suicide in the world are in the Republic of Korea, with 36.8 suicides per 100,000, but India, Japan, Russia, and Hungary all have rates above 20 per 100,000; roughly twice as high as the U.S. and the four countries that are the basis for the Post’s calculation that gun control would reduce U.S. suicide rates by 20 to 38 percent. Lebanon, Oman, and Iraq all have suicide rates below 1.1 per 100,000 people--less than 1/10 the suicide rate in the U. S., and Afghanistan, Algeria, Jamaica, Haiti, and Egypt have low suicide rates that are below 4 per 100,000 in contrast to 13.7 suicides/100,000 in the U. S.

 

[2aguy]

Except a car is not a Right....guns are....

That's your interpretation, not mine.. Replace one knuckle-dragger on SCOTUS, and the Second Amendment is about Militias again...

No...we have democrats letting violent repeat gun offenders out of jail issue....... the people doing the shooting have multiple felony convictions, have been let out of prison...over and over again....

Again, we lock up 2 million people... if guns and jails make us safer, other countries wouldn't be issuing travel advisories warning people not to come here.

Democrats let violent gun criminals out of those prisons in less than 3 years over and over again, and democrat prosecutors plea bargain away multiple convictions for illegal guns, and judges give bail to repeat gun offenders and light prison sentences for multiple gun felony criminals...

If you don't keep criminals locked up, your prisons aren't working....