Why Can't the Pro-Choice Crowd Be Honest?

[Vanquish]

Abortion debates always go round and round because they're based on an uncertainty. Pro-abortionists want to convince themselves that the baby is not alive simply because it's microscopic and unseen.

The only question you need answer is this:
Given the possibility that it MIGHT be life at conception...which is the wiser choice?
a) not aborting, therefore saving what could be a life
b) aborting, therefore killing what could be a life

put even more simply, why take a chance that you're wrong?

All the pro-choice gobbledy-gook can't ever get around that question.

You motherfuckers can side-step my question all you want, but until a pro-death/pro-abortion person answers this question...your replies are a fucking joke.

Keep sidestepping me, pro-choicers.

It's all you CAN do...as you dont want to have a real debate.

 

[Gadawg73]

It makes me angry when people justify killing the weak and vulnerable.

It makes me even angrier that they have been taught that it's not murder.

The Founders did not believe or teach their children abortion was murder.
THE LAW decides what is murder or not.
You folks want mob, mass rule by a theocracy.
Unfortunately for you the Founders knew exactly what the likes of you could do to undermine free people.
From 1776-mid 1800s abortion was LEGAL in most ALL states. The states where it WAS illegal, the laws were all ambiguous and never enforced.
Well, DUH. Guess why.
All the while the masses claim this nation was founded on Christian principles.
You folks have no clue about history. Never read a book, study anything or go to the archives to research. If Rush and Sean said it and we sang about it in 3rd grade, IT HAS TO BE TRUE.

 

[AllieBaba]

What the hell are you yammering about?

Nutbar.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

My response to Jbeukema, post 1820

(sorry for the delay responding, this is a big and busy forum…)

My opinion is irrelevant, I simply note the legal status of the issue and the current thinking of the courts, providing documentation accordingly.

It doesn’t mean I approve or disapprove, or believe it’s right or wrong – I do accept it as settled law and have moved on.

For those who are opposed to abortion and wish to see it banned/outlawed, however, you’ve got a long, hard road to negotiate. The best chance was lost with Casey in 1992, that was almost 20 years ago. And Roe and Griswold are well over 30 years decided. I’m not saying overturning Griswold/Roe/Casey can’t be done, but eliminating the right to privacy is going to be a tough sell to most Americans, whether abortion is factored in or not.

Keep sidestepping me, pro-choicers.

It's all you CAN do...as you dont want to have a real debate.

And what exactly is there to debate?

The issue isn’t really about abortion per se but how to end it. It could be argued simply banning it would be as effective as banning marijuana is now or alcohol during the 1920s, which wouldn’t end it at all. Americans historically don’t respond well being told what to do concerning things they consider private.

 

[Cecilie1200]

It makes me angry when people justify killing the weak and vulnerable.

It makes me even angrier that they have been taught that it's not murder.

It makes me even angrier when they actually convince themselves that the weak and vulnerable are, in fact, the evil malefactors and they themselves are the helpless, downtrodden victims.

 

[Varth Dader]

Pregnancy is probably the one and only medical condition that is 100% avoidable.

Except when a woman gets raped...

This kind of statement is 100% empty talking points.

 

[Mr.Nick]

Because they would lose if they were.

Well, abortion fits most states statutes for First Degree Murder....

Woman who have abortions should be charged with First Degree Murder.

Furthermore I find the pro-abortion croweds argument of "don't tell me what I can do with my body" argument to be highly ironic considering that fetus is an individual. Who the fuck do these people think they are impeding the life of a little human?? Having an abortion is telling another person they're being executed for no reason other than the host is selfish.

I could understand a morning after pill or whatever but getting an abortion 6-12 weeks later?? thats blatant first degree murder.... Any doctor that performs such a procedure should have a knife rammed into his head just like they did to that little fetus.

Some of these doctors are serial killers...

Sorry you just cant kill a fetus and rationalize it whatever way makes you feel the best - that would be using flawed logic..... Thats probably my pet peeve with the pro-abortion crowd - they rationalize abortion in a way that suits them best and makes them sleep good at night - they believe that if they believe its not murder its not when it actually is.

Once again "Whole Language" destroys morals and society...

 

[Mr.Nick]

Pregnancy is probably the one and only medical condition that is 100% avoidable.

Except when a woman gets raped...

This kind of statement is 100% empty talking points.

So how is it the fetuses fault??

So a woman gets raped, finds out shes pregnant a few weeks later and kills an innocent fetus ??

Nice...

So an individual gets raped and another gets murdered.....

Besides, you'd think in modern times rapists would be a little more careful with their DNA, so that argument is pretty much moot in present times. It just happens to be a typical excuse for the left to continue to support murder as a right.

 

[JBeukema]

It doesn’t mean I approve or disapprove, or believe it’s right or wrong – I do accept it as settled law and have moved on.

Because you have no principles? Should we have accepted that slavery and the Mormon Extermination Order were established Law and moved on?

For those who are opposed to abortion and wish to see it banned/outlawed, however, you’ve got a long, hard road to negotiate.

So, too, did the abolitionists. Like the abolitionists, the anti-abortion crowd views theirs as a moral struggle against a great evil that is protected by the Law.

The best chance was lost with Casey in 1992, that was almost 20 years ago. And Roe and Griswold are well over 30 years decided.

Roe should be thrown out completely. In any other court case, if one party later admitted publicly that the entire case was based on perjury, that would be cause for throwing out the ruling.

Keep sidestepping me, pro-choicers.

It's all you CAN do...as you dont want to have a real debate.

That's nowhere in my post.

The issue isn’t really about abortion per se but how to end it. It could be argued simply banning it would be as effective as banning marijuana is now or alcohol during the 1920s, which wouldn’t end it at all

You're being dishonest. It is homicide, so it is like overturning the Mormon executioner order or outlawing other forms of homicide.

Americans historically don’t respond well being told what to do concerning things they consider private.

How curious that homicide should be deemed a 'private matter'. That argument is, to be blunt, fucking bullshit.

 

[JBeukema]

Pregnancy is probably the one and only medical condition that is 100% avoidable.

Except when a woman gets raped...

This kind of statement is 100% empty talking points.

Plan B, taken within 48 hours of insemination, is rather effective.

 

[Varth Dader]

Pregnancy is probably the one and only medical condition that is 100% avoidable.

Except when a woman gets raped...

This kind of statement is 100% empty talking points.

So how is it the fetuses fault??

So a woman gets raped, finds out shes pregnant a few weeks later and kills an innocent fetus ??

Nice...

So an individual gets raped and another gets murdered.....

Besides, you'd think in modern times rapists would be a little more careful with their DNA, so that argument is pretty much moot in present times. It just happens to be a typical excuse for the left to continue to support murder as a right.

It's not the fetus' fault, but your answer has nothing to do with my point. My point is that the "100%" is totally wrong. Rape is unfortunately not 100% avoidable. I wish it was, but it isn't.

As for your description, let's try again.

So a woman gets raped, finds out shes pregnant a few weeks later and has to carry a baby to maturity, reminding her every single moment of the following 8 months that she was raped, followed by decades after. Time to congratulate yourself for imposing such a possibly heavy burden on a woman.

Apparently you seem to think women/mothers are robots that can get raped and can merrily go through a pregnancy.

As for the DNA argument, apparently not all rapists have received the memo. And, as I am sure you know, birth control is never 100% effective (except the bogus abstinence argument). So even the rapist that you seem to describe, which either pulls out at the last minute or uses a condom might not be 100% successful in preventing a pregnancy.

 

[Varth Dader]

Plan B, taken within 48 hours of insemination, is rather effective.

The same Plan B right wingers fought tooth and nail to prevent from coming to the market, prevent from being sold OTC, etc?

 

[JBeukema]

Rape is unfortunately not 100% avoidable.

Who said it was?

Why can't you be honest?

So a woman gets raped, finds out shes pregnant a few weeks later

I call bullshit.

If you gave half a damn, you'd have made Plan B available immediately so this wouldn't have happened at all.

You just want to exploit rape victims for your own purposes.

Also, please explain how your right to your life is dependent on the relationship between your parents.

 

[Mr.Nick]

Except when a woman gets raped...

This kind of statement is 100% empty talking points.

So how is it the fetuses fault??

So a woman gets raped, finds out shes pregnant a few weeks later and kills an innocent fetus ??

Nice...

So an individual gets raped and another gets murdered.....

Besides, you'd think in modern times rapists would be a little more careful with their DNA, so that argument is pretty much moot in present times. It just happens to be a typical excuse for the left to continue to support murder as a right.

It's not the fetus' fault, but your answer has nothing to do with my point. My point is that the "100%" is totally wrong. Rape is unfortunately not 100% avoidable. I wish it was, but it isn't.

As for your description, let's try again.

So a woman gets raped, finds out shes pregnant a few weeks later and has to carry a baby to maturity, reminding her every single moment of the following 8 months that she was raped, followed by decades after. Time to congratulate yourself for imposing such a possibly heavy burden on a woman.

Apparently you seem to think women/mothers are robots that can get raped and can merrily go through a pregnancy.

As for the DNA argument, apparently not all rapists have received the memo. And, as I am sure you know, birth control is never 100% effective (except the bogus abstinence argument). So even the rapist that you seem to describe, which either pulls out at the last minute or uses a condom might not be 100% successful in preventing a pregnancy.

Thats just a knee-jerk emotional theory, mixed with flawed logic (no offense to you personally)

Rape is not a good excuse to murder an innocent fetus - no matter what.

That type of response would be (and is) emotionally immature...

Now, I'm not saying in a case of rape the mother should have to raise the child but what I am saying is murdering the fetus is wrong.

 

[Varth Dader]

Rape is unfortunately not 100% avoidable.

Who said it was?

Why can't you be honest?

So a woman gets raped, finds out shes pregnant a few weeks later

I call bullshit.

If you gave half a damn, you'd have made Plan B available immediately so this wouldn't have happened at all.

You just want to exploit rape victims for your own purposes.

Also, please explain how your right to your life is dependent on the relationship between your parents.

Who said it was? Soggy in NOLA who said:

"Pregnancy is probably the one and only medical condition that is 100% avoidable."

Yes of course, because you necessarily have access to Plan B within 24-72 hours of being raped. Is that provided by the person that rapes you? Should woman carry a Plan B "just in case"?

I will tell you how your right to your life is dependent on the relationship between your parents.

- No parents? No life
- One of the parent can't procreate? No life
- Your mom dies while you are pregnant? No life
- Mom refuses for her body to be used to sustain a portion of her body? No life

Until you are born, or nearly born, you are dependent on some other body for your existence. Just deal with it.

The better option would of course be to reduce the risk of pregnancies (birth control, sex education, etc.) combined with a better support for children, mother and families to reduce the need for abortions (access to health care, access to housing, etc). But of course it's much more fun to vilify women getting abortions.

 

[Varth Dader]

Thats just a knee-jerk emotional theory, mixed with flawed logic (no offense to you personally)

Rape is not a good excuse to murder an innocent fetus - no matter what.

That type of response would be (and is) emotionally immature...

Now, I'm not saying in a case of rape the mother should have to raise the child but what I am saying is murdering the fetus is wrong.

I've never been raped, and since I am a guy, I will certainly never be pregnant, but I really hope you are not around someone who does, goes through that horrible time only to hear "rape is not a good excuse to murder an innocent fetus"

Between a real living traumatized woman and a bunch of cells in her tummy, I will try to help the former first.

 

[Varth Dader]

This is just amazing. You read these boards and you get the feeling that being pregnant is like having to carry your driver license or reading your mail every day: no biggie! Maybe we should pass a law preventing the waste of sperm to see if we would get a different reaction. After all, that's half a life right there.

 

[Mr.Nick]

Thats just a knee-jerk emotional theory, mixed with flawed logic (no offense to you personally)

Rape is not a good excuse to murder an innocent fetus - no matter what.

That type of response would be (and is) emotionally immature...

Now, I'm not saying in a case of rape the mother should have to raise the child but what I am saying is murdering the fetus is wrong.

I've never been raped, and since I am a guy, I will certainly never be pregnant, but I really hope you are not around someone who does, goes through that horrible time only to hear "rape is not a good excuse to murder an innocent fetus"

Between a real living traumatized woman and a bunch of cells in her tummy, I will try to help the former first.

So using your logic anyone who is traumatized has the right to murder?

I'm not implying a raped woman was not traumatized, however I am implying that doesn't justify a murder.

Do you not realize these are people who are being murdered???

In what universe should a fetus be treated any differently than you???

What the fuck man??

Psychological trauma doesn't justify murder...

Maybe some people need to carry around reminders that they're adults, hence they need to rationalize even traumatic situations like adults.

Now, abortion via rape is no different than punching a 3 year old in the face out of knee-jerk emotion because he spilled his Hawaiian Punch on your new white carpet..

 

[Cecilie1200]

Except when a woman gets raped...

This kind of statement is 100% empty talking points.

So how is it the fetuses fault??

So a woman gets raped, finds out shes pregnant a few weeks later and kills an innocent fetus ??

Nice...

So an individual gets raped and another gets murdered.....

Besides, you'd think in modern times rapists would be a little more careful with their DNA, so that argument is pretty much moot in present times. It just happens to be a typical excuse for the left to continue to support murder as a right.

It's not the fetus' fault, but your answer has nothing to do with my point. My point is that the "100%" is totally wrong. Rape is unfortunately not 100% avoidable. I wish it was, but it isn't.

As for your description, let's try again.

So a woman gets raped, finds out shes pregnant a few weeks later and has to carry a baby to maturity, reminding her every single moment of the following 8 months that she was raped, followed by decades after. Time to congratulate yourself for imposing such a possibly heavy burden on a woman.

Apparently you seem to think women/mothers are robots that can get raped and can merrily go through a pregnancy.

As for the DNA argument, apparently not all rapists have received the memo. And, as I am sure you know, birth control is never 100% effective (except the bogus abstinence argument). So even the rapist that you seem to describe, which either pulls out at the last minute or uses a condom might not be 100% successful in preventing a pregnancy.

What are you, crazy? Do you think she's EVER going to forget she was raped? You think an abortion is going to make it all better, let her la-di-da on with her life as though it never happened? Be serious. Apparently, you seem to think killing babies is a quick cure for rape trauma.

And what kind of sick bastard thinks of a BABY this way, anyway? I don't even want to comment on how repulsively twisted and depraved your mind must be.

As YOU should know, rape almost never results in pregnancy, anyway. And I for one am goddamned sick and tired of trying to talk about the MONSTROUS fact of a million dead babies every year, and disingenuous fucks like you running straight to hide behind the skirts of rape victims. How about this? You agree to stop all abortions NOT resulting from rape, and we'll call it square. Are you willing to compromise on that?

 

[Mr.Nick]

This is just amazing. You read these boards and you get the feeling that being pregnant is like having to carry your driver license or reading your mail every day: no biggie! Maybe we should pass a law preventing the waste of sperm to see if we would get a different reaction. After all, that's half a life right there.

So now you're comparing sperm to a viable fetus....

Sweet argument...

Maybe you just spent your life attempting to rationalize nefarious ideas as benevolent?