Why do people still follow Mormonism?

[barryqwalsh]

Joseph Smith Quotes

Memorable Quotes from Joseph Smith, Jr.



"I have more to boast of than ever any man had. I am the only man that has ever been able to keep a whole church together since the days of Adam. Neither Paul, Peter, nor Jesus ever did it. I boast that no man ever did such a work as I. The followers of Jesus ran away from Him; but the Latter-day-Saints never ran away from me yet."

-LDS History of the Church, vol. 6, pp. 408-409,


Lifeline Ministries to RLDS Joseph Smith Quotes

 

[JakeStarkey]

I am more to wonder why people support Gays or Islam. It's all just hoogitybugity. You believe whatever you want, don't pretend it's reasonable.

Great self-insight for you. Follow it.

 

[TSJohnson]

I like how none of the historical, linguistic, archaeological, or literary points I've made have been addressed with anything but "just ignore it and have faith". It kind of reminds me of the people who claim that the Sumerian gods were aliens who came from Nibiru to create humans as gold mining slaves and that their records explicitly say this. Actual Sumerologists who actually can read the tablets refute this constantly, but the crazies just brush them off as ignorant and keep selling their garbage to anyone who doesn't know better.

It's almost the same situation with Mormonism and Egyptian. Joseph Smith was alive at a time when it was this exotic, mysterious tongue the great scholars of the day were trying their damndest to translate. Nobody knew what their texts said so he had free reign to make any claim he wanted so long as he was careful to ascribe any knowledge he couldn't have had to Jesus or whatever. He wrote his own book about how it worked and "translated" the Book of Abraham according to his own made up ideas and what was left of the pretty pictures. When Egyptology reached the point where they could read the language for themselves, the LDS leadership even sent them copies of Smith's works to verify. That authentication would have been proof that Smith had supernatural aid. Had he been right, it would have been a slam dunk proof that he really was a prophet and they were right all along.

The problem was that it was rejected. Out of hand. Exactly none of his claims matched how the language actually worked or what the papyrus actually said. He didn't even get the fucking alphabet right. So what did the LDS leadership do? They tucked it away in the back of the closet and just stopped talking about it for like two centuries.

 

[Vikrant]

Joseph Smith Quotes

Memorable Quotes from Joseph Smith, Jr.



"I have more to boast of than ever any man had. I am the only man that has ever been able to keep a whole church together since the days of Adam. Neither Paul, Peter, nor Jesus ever did it. I boast that no man ever did such a work as I. The followers of Jesus ran away from Him; but the Latter-day-Saints never ran away from me yet."

-LDS History of the Church, vol. 6, pp. 408-409,


Lifeline Ministries to RLDS Joseph Smith Quotes

All bible based revisionist religion claim that their founder has higher status than Jesus. I do not see why single out just the Mormons?

 

[ninja007]

And yet the Church of Jesus Christ of Later Day Saints believes in God and the Bible and Jesus.

not really. Not only that they have a whole lot of false teachings and unscriptural practices.

 

[ninja007]

What ye think of the Scriptures

 

[ninja007]

Were Christians too

 

[ninja007]

Lucifer s Fall in Heaven Mans Exaltation on Earth

 

[ninja007]

Why the Mormon Church is not the TRUE church Jesus Christ started

 

[ninja007]

Which god do Mormons worship

 

[Inevitable]

I learned about it following Mitt Romney last election. The biggest thing I learned is that it's completely, transparently false.

There is no reason to believe that Joseph Smith was anything like a prophet. There is plenty of reason to believe he was a fraud. As a youth, he was locally known for his tall tales and con jobs. As a young man, he was well versed in the occult practices common in the region and was acquainted with Swedenborg's New Church ideas, such as multiple levels of Heaven and marriage in the afterlife. As an adult, he suddenly appeared with this alleged record of prehistoric upstate New York written in Hebrew using the Egyptian alphabet that he refused to let more than a few people see. He translated it with his "peep stones" by putting them in a hat, putting his face in the hat, and yelling words to his friend and "scribe" behind a curtain. The resulting book bore suspicious similarity to his favorite historical fiction.

There is no physical or cultural evidence that the civilizations in the Book of Mormon ever existed outside its pages. There are no records of them among any indigenous people. There are no artifacts or ruins where the cities supposedly were. There are no bodies or weapons where the battles were supposedly fought. This isn't for lack of trying to find them. Plenty of people have. All LDS-themed archaeology has ever turned up have been new hypotheses to explain away the stark lack of evidence about what should be the most concrete, irrefutable proof for their religion.

The other records, like the Book of Abraham, are known frauds. It's now proven that Joe Smith didn't know a word of Egyptian, or even its writing system. Several of his screw ups prove this. One is his lesser known works, Egyptian Alphabet & Grammar, has been thoroughly wrecked by actual Egyptologists. Another, and probably the most damning, is his mistake regarding the Kinderhook plates. Those are a set of six plates brass plates some farmers forged to trick him into trying to translate them. He took the bait.

There are other problems with his credibility as well, like his multiple versions of his "first vision" story and his criminal record. I just don't understand it. How can anyone look at this religion and see anything but a couple centuries old fraud ultimately made up by a shameless huckster looking to build a cult of personality around himself and score himself some married 14 year old poon?

Same reason anybody follows any religion I suppose.

 

[Inevitable]

People follow Morminsim for the same reason they follow any religion. They are looking for someone to tell them how to act and agree that they are the only ones acting the right way.

Validation for their resistance.

 

[Avatar4321]

because they've actually studied the Book of Mormon and taken the challenge to ask the Lord whether it's true. When the Lord tells you it is by the Holy Spirit, you tend to believe it. Makes it much easier to see through the caricature presented by those who dont understand the doctrine of Christ

You're pretty much admitting that the Book of Mormon is false and teaches false doctrines.
Reasons:

1) Have to study the Book of Mormon first to find truths

2) After studying the Book of Mormons, you has to take the challenge of testing its truths by asking a demon, pretending to be God, to let you know what is true. by asking a demon that pretends to be God

3) What you think is the Holy Spirit is actually a demon. This demon have power to influence man's will but no power to really convict the will. The demon's power of is mainly seduction. The demon is only able to seduce some people's will and they tend to believe in its lies. However, some people will not be seduced by the demon and refuses to believe its lies.

so God is a demon? Exactly how do you learn truth if it isn't through study and revelation from the Holy Spirit.

was it a demon that revealed to Peter that Jesus was the Son of God?

the bible says to test all things and you say testing the Book of Mormon is demonic? Paul said that you can only learn the things of the Spirit by the Spirit.

I guarantee you that it isn't God encouraging you not to pray about the Book of Mormon. Because the Holy spirit encourages a man to pray in all thing.

or are you really so disbelieving that you don't think God the Father can answer your prayer? You really think praying to Him is to a demon?

your reasoning makes no sense. How is the bible any different? How would you know it is true if you don't ask the Lord? How can you know that Jesus is the Christ without the Spirit of prophesy? And how can you obtain a witness of that Spirit unless exercise faith and ask?

I know by the power of the Holy Spirit that Jesus is the Christ and that the Bible and Book of Mormon are true. Do demons now testify of Christ? Do they preach redemption through Jesus Christ? Can a house divides stand?

the Pharisees tried to convince the people that Christ cast out devils by the power of the devil. He didn't find that reasoning very convincing.

when we prophesy of Christ have we obtained they Spirit from a demon? When we heal the sick is that power a gift from the devil? Since when does the devil heal anyone? It's contrary to his nature.

read the Book of Mormon for yourself and you will learn more about Christ than anywhere else.

Yep. There are many anti-Christs and I believe the Book of Mormon teaches the worship of a false Christ.

Jesus of Nazareth is an anti Christ? That's a new one for me.

and you bases this off what? Not reading the Book of Mormon?

 

[TSJohnson]

Jesus was a false prophet, just like every other prophet in history (including Joseph Smith). The region was flooded with them at the time due to the social stresses of reality conflicting with the beliefs on which their society was based. He wasn't really that special if you look at the actual history as recorded by first hand witnesses. Anyway, all of this sectarian infighting is really tangential to the main point that it's irrational for people to believe in a religion that's well known not to be true. It's not really any different than insisting that Odin flies the sun around even after learning how the solar system really works in second grade.

 

[Avatar4321]

And yet the Holy Spirit testifies that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God and Savior of the world. And He testifies that Joseph Smith was a prophet of Jesus Christ. Why should we ignore these great witnesses from God because you say so?

 

[TSJohnson]

Because Egyptologists say the Book of Abraham is a mistranslated funerary text and can back it up with the actual translation and comprehensive explanations of how they got it. Because Joseph Smith's explanation of the Egyptian language was wrong on literally every point. Because the church leadership that was so eager to send it in for examination covered up the findings. Because LDS archaeologists can't explain why none of the civilizations they believe existed left bones, pottery, ruins of any kind, or any genetic or linguistic trace. Because the church can't answer why no modern or previous Native American culture or language shows any sign of descent or influence from a Semitic one. Because of Zelph, the misidentified corpse. Because Joseph Smith fell for the Kinderhook plates. Because of his 40 something wives, many of whom were married to other men and none Emma knew about. Because the mishies evidently don't even learn about polygamy in MTC. Because the "revelation" "ending" it was only announced so Utah could become a state. Because of his many different conflicting accounts of his first vision. Because only now is church leadership finally starting to talk about coming clean with this stuff. Because everything we know about the subjects it makes concrete claims on conflict with every one of those claims. I'm sorry, but the events the Book of Mormon speak of simply didn't happen. That's just the plain, undodgeable truth.

 

[Meriweather]

And yet the Holy Spirit testifies that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God and Savior of the world. And He testifies that Joseph Smith was a prophet of Jesus Christ. Why should we ignore these great witnesses from God because you say so?

Can you briefly tell of how the Holy Spirit testified Joseph Smith was a prophet?

 

[Disir]

The whole side argument is kind of pointless since there isn't a god in the first place, IMHO. I was just pointing out that, out of all religions, this is one of the few we know to be false. Why is that? It makes, concrete, falsifiable claims. Either there were Jewish Indians fighting massive battles in prehistoric upstate New York or there weren't. Either the Book of Abraham is a record of Abraham's life in Egypt or it's a common pagan Egyptian funerary text. Either there are ruins and artifacts proving those ancient civilizations existed or there aren't any whatsoever because they didn't.

We know the true answers to these questions. It's not like normative Christianity, where every falsehood can be rephrased as a metaphor or not central to the core doctrine. It's not like Hinduism, where thousands of different sects have their own, equally valid interpretation of metaphysics and they all leave things like history and science alone. It makes very specific black and white claims about black and white subjects that we can go back and verify. These claims are simply false. It's not an attack or bashing or whatever. It's just the truth. You would have to utterly ignore what we know of the history of the pre-Columbian Americas and of Joseph Smith's life and character to believe otherwise.

The whole history of Mormonism, including Joseph Smith's criminal record, is most often hidden from the followers. This is incredibly easy to do if you look at it as a cult. You have to be able to look quite carefully at the organizational structure and how privacy is dealt with.
This is the missionary manual. You should look at communication with family. You might want to have a good read through starting at about page 20. You want to have a good look at how you are never alone.
https://www.lds.org/bc/content/ldsorg/topics/missionary/MissionaryHandbook2006Navigate.pdf?lang=eng

one usually doesn't get a criminal record when the charges are dismissed. Considering that Jesus Christ has a criminal record and He had no sin, why would we expect a mere servant of Christ to be flawless?

Gandhi and mlk Jr also had criminal records. And they were actually guilty.

He was convicted. He's a fraud. I showed it to you. You fled the scene.

he was repeatedly exonerated. The doctrine is true. Which is why you have to attack the messenger

No, Avatar. He wasn't. It's a fraud. He was a con man. It's not an attack. It is simply the truth.

 

[Disir]

He was convicted. He's a fraud. I showed it to you. You fled the scene.

Joseph Smith aside. A member of the LDS faith has never tried to con me. They are fine models of the love of Christ and service to God and one another. Whoever Joseph Smith may or may not have been, those of the LDS faith whom I have met I have seen being exemplary disciples of Christ when it comes to, "See how they love one another..."

I will argue some LDS teachings with the best, but I haven't a doubt in the world they are my brothers and sisters in Christ.

That's nice. Truly.

That does not change the facts.

 

[Meriweather]

He was convicted. He's a fraud. I showed it to you. You fled the scene.

Joseph Smith aside. A member of the LDS faith has never tried to con me. They are fine models of the love of Christ and service to God and one another. Whoever Joseph Smith may or may not have been, those of the LDS faith whom I have met I have seen being exemplary disciples of Christ when it comes to, "See how they love one another..."

I will argue some LDS teachings with the best, but I haven't a doubt in the world they are my brothers and sisters in Christ.

That's nice.

It says a lot. Even if Joseph Smith was a fraud (which I believe he was) what cannot be dismissed as anything other than amazing is that Jesus Christ himself reached out to help those who were seeking him. Everyone should be able to praise this.