Why do the God-haters persist?

[Boss]

I think you would admit that the need to believe in a god is something man made up. If not you are just as loony as they are. I can't tell with you. You seem to understand christianity is made up but I seem to recall you saying we are scared of death or hell. Can you clarify? Do you think people who don't believe in god all go to hell?

I don't admit the need to believe in God is something man made up. I believe the need to believe in God is intrinsic spiritual awareness that we have as humans. If we are scared of death or hell it is because of our intrinsic spiritual awareness and absolute knowledge that something greater than self exists outside the physical.

I don't believe in "heaven and hell" per say. I believe there are numerous dimensions outside the physical dimension we experience. In those dimensions, time may or may not be a concept. Our spirits are immortal, they will exist after our physical bodies expire and our reality experience here is over. Because our spiritual inclination is directing us in the way of "good" as opposed to evil, I believe what happens to our spirit must be associated with how our spirit performs in this existence. Our next experience might be predicated on how we live this life, how well we adhere to our intrinsic spiritual nature to be "good" as opposed to evil. "Hell" might be simply re-living your physical existence here in another incarnation. Or perhaps in a less desirable dimension happening at the same time within our own reality experience. "Heaven" might be ascendence to a higher level of dimensional existence with more euphoria, also happening at the same time in this universe. I don't know any of this, I just have to follow my spiritual consciousness and try to be "good" because that is what my spirit inclines me to be.

I also don't think admitting there is no god would have negative effects on society. You guys think people can't or won't know right from wrong without god. I and many other atheists are proof that is not true.

Well I disagree. I don't think you or any Atheist has proven this in any substantial way. Pointing to meaningless statistics of countries that are overwhelmingly spiritual and trying to take credit because there are a high concentration of non-believers, is a cheap attempt to cash in on what you haven't contributed to. Give us an example of a vibrant moral society devoid of human spirituality, and I'll buy your argument. Fact is, you have no such example and I predict you never will.

The problem is, when you have no moral accountability, you can simply establish your own parameters of morality, rationalizing and justifying your actions as you go. You are the proverbial kid in a candy store that you own, arguing that you can run the store without any supervision. Inevitably, your personal desires for pleasure trump your commitment to pragmatism. We see this throughout the Atheist community. You don't see Atheists speaking out against abortion, or any other moral issue. They've justified immoral behavior in every respect and will continue to do so. This declines civilizations, as history has repeatedly proven.

 

[sealybobo]

BEFORE YOU START READING GOD'S WORD SAY TO GOD," GOD IF YOU ARE REAL SHOWME,SPEAK TO ME THROUGH YOUR WORD,I WANT TO KNOW IF YOU ARE REAL" GOD WILL HONOR THOSE WORDS IF YOU MEAN WHAT YOU SAY!!! 1000% Ask!!!

I did and he didn't speak back. Maybe he did to you because you are simple minded and gullible and wanted it so bad your mind heard what you wanted to hear. I don't know, but he didn't speak back to me and I asked him honestly and for a long long time.

Just like the early morning preacher who was selling holy water. Telling people if they call and order it they will get whatever they want/ask for. Liars.

WOULD A little guy LIE ABOUT READING GOD'S WORD AND PRAYING,WOULD HE SINK THAT LOW???

He or I wouldn't. Why would I need to lie to you? Either I am a normal American person who just doesn't believe in god or I'm possessed by the devil. You figure out which is the truth. You seem to be soooo good at figuring out what is fact and what is fiction I guess if what I am saying goes against your good book you will be sure it must be satan who's controlling me.

Fact is, and I think even you can understand this point Gismys. Why would god punish me or anyone else for not believing you or your church? Just because you have faith in and believe in your church doesn't make it right. A lot of muslims in Saudi Arabia and Iran and Iraq have just as much faith their religion is real and they think you are going to hell. Fuck them, right? Exactly, which is why I tell people like you to fuck off too. No offense. If you can agree with me the Muslims are full of shit when they say you are going to hell, then at least a small part of that tiny brain of yours must admit what possible reason would I have to believe your fairy tales other than you trying to scare me into believing. You say don't accept Jesus and go to hell. Muslims say don't accept Mohammad and go to hell. I say you can all go to hell.

 

[sealybobo]

I think you would admit that the need to believe in a god is something man made up. If not you are just as loony as they are. I can't tell with you. You seem to understand christianity is made up but I seem to recall you saying we are scared of death or hell. Can you clarify? Do you think people who don't believe in god all go to hell?

I don't admit the need to believe in God is something man made up. I believe the need to believe in God is intrinsic spiritual awareness that we have as humans. If we are scared of death or hell it is because of our intrinsic spiritual awareness and absolute knowledge that something greater than self exists outside the physical.

I don't believe in "heaven and hell" per say. I believe there are numerous dimensions outside the physical dimension we experience. In those dimensions, time may or may not be a concept. Our spirits are immortal, they will exist after our physical bodies expire and our reality experience here is over. Because our spiritual inclination is directing us in the way of "good" as opposed to evil, I believe what happens to our spirit must be associated with how our spirit performs in this existence. Our next experience might be predicated on how we live this life, how well we adhere to our intrinsic spiritual nature to be "good" as opposed to evil. "Hell" might be simply re-living your physical existence here in another incarnation. Or perhaps in a less desirable dimension happening at the same time within our own reality experience. "Heaven" might be ascendence to a higher level of dimensional existence with more euphoria, also happening at the same time in this universe. I don't know any of this, I just have to follow my spiritual consciousness and try to be "good" because that is what my spirit inclines me to be.

I also don't think admitting there is no god would have negative effects on society. You guys think people can't or won't know right from wrong without god. I and many other atheists are proof that is not true.

Well I disagree. I don't think you or any Atheist has proven this in any substantial way. Pointing to meaningless statistics of countries that are overwhelmingly spiritual and trying to take credit because there are a high concentration of non-believers, is a cheap attempt to cash in on what you haven't contributed to. Give us an example of a vibrant moral society devoid of human spirituality, and I'll buy your argument. Fact is, you have no such example and I predict you never will.

The problem is, when you have no moral accountability, you can simply establish your own parameters of morality, rationalizing and justifying your actions as you go. You are the proverbial kid in a candy store that you own, arguing that you can run the store without any supervision. Inevitably, your personal desires for pleasure trump your commitment to pragmatism. We see this throughout the Atheist community. You don't see Atheists speaking out against abortion, or any other moral issue. They've justified immoral behavior in every respect and will continue to do so. This declines civilizations, as history has repeatedly proven.

Atheists can’t know the difference between right and wrong.

Note: The following answer is a generalization. Atheists are not a homogeneous group. There is no formal moral code resulting from a lack of belief. Atheists can and do subscribe to any number of ethical systems, or may simply decide such things for themselves.

Atheists generally derive their sense of right and wrong from an innate and reasoned understanding of which actions contribute towards a society most hospitable to continual well-being and personal fulfilment. They are accountable to their own conscience and to society at large. They do not require an absolute standard in order to make distinctions between the possible effects of their actions.

Atheists are attuned to the here and now. Their ethics are not derived from some reward or punishment after death, but from a rational consideration of the consequences in this life. Impulsive desires are compassionately, empathetically and intelligently weighed against long term personal and social goals.

As social animals that have evolved to want and give love, to have freedom and security, we have learned that we are safer, stronger and more prosperous in a successful group. Crimes are inherently anti-social behaviours that introduce needless risk and are antithetical to the long-term needs and goals of a happy, stable society.

Note: Essentially all theists unknowingly exercise their innate ‘morality’ or conscience by picking and choosing which parts of their religion to follow.

“I have no need for religion, I have a conscience.” – Anonymous

 

[sealybobo]

I think you would admit that the need to believe in a god is something man made up. If not you are just as loony as they are. I can't tell with you. You seem to understand christianity is made up but I seem to recall you saying we are scared of death or hell. Can you clarify? Do you think people who don't believe in god all go to hell?

I don't admit the need to believe in God is something man made up. I believe the need to believe in God is intrinsic spiritual awareness that we have as humans. If we are scared of death or hell it is because of our intrinsic spiritual awareness and absolute knowledge that something greater than self exists outside the physical.

I don't believe in "heaven and hell" per say. I believe there are numerous dimensions outside the physical dimension we experience. In those dimensions, time may or may not be a concept. Our spirits are immortal, they will exist after our physical bodies expire and our reality experience here is over. Because our spiritual inclination is directing us in the way of "good" as opposed to evil, I believe what happens to our spirit must be associated with how our spirit performs in this existence. Our next experience might be predicated on how we live this life, how well we adhere to our intrinsic spiritual nature to be "good" as opposed to evil. "Hell" might be simply re-living your physical existence here in another incarnation. Or perhaps in a less desirable dimension happening at the same time within our own reality experience. "Heaven" might be ascendence to a higher level of dimensional existence with more euphoria, also happening at the same time in this universe. I don't know any of this, I just have to follow my spiritual consciousness and try to be "good" because that is what my spirit inclines me to be.

I also don't think admitting there is no god would have negative effects on society. You guys think people can't or won't know right from wrong without god. I and many other atheists are proof that is not true.

Well I disagree. I don't think you or any Atheist has proven this in any substantial way. Pointing to meaningless statistics of countries that are overwhelmingly spiritual and trying to take credit because there are a high concentration of non-believers, is a cheap attempt to cash in on what you haven't contributed to. Give us an example of a vibrant moral society devoid of human spirituality, and I'll buy your argument. Fact is, you have no such example and I predict you never will.

The problem is, when you have no moral accountability, you can simply establish your own parameters of morality, rationalizing and justifying your actions as you go. You are the proverbial kid in a candy store that you own, arguing that you can run the store without any supervision. Inevitably, your personal desires for pleasure trump your commitment to pragmatism. We see this throughout the Atheist community. You don't see Atheists speaking out against abortion, or any other moral issue. They've justified immoral behavior in every respect and will continue to do so. This declines civilizations, as history has repeatedly proven.

You are one of the people we talk about who picks and chooses what he/she wants to believe.

People need to believe in god / Without god people will do bad things.

Argument from adverse consequences [2].

Just because something is perceived as having good consequences if it is true, does not actually make it true.

 

[Boss]

But the fact is, if you look at the universe and nature, the way thing are suggests no god.

I disagree. I think the opposite is true. It's not possible the physical universe created itself and it certainly does exist and something set it into motion. It's not possible that life created itself because we know that life only comes from other life. We know of nothing in our reality that created itself, it defies all logic and reason. The ONLY rational explanation is something beyond physical nature is at play. This is why rational human beings with brains and neocortex have pretty much all been spiritually connected, it's almost impossible to rationalize there is no God. Now, you've demonstrated a good effort to do that here, but even you admitted you believe in "Karma" and you claim you are willing to ponder various other religious teachings for some rational reason. I can only surmise you have intrinsic awareness there is something else besides physical nature.

Perhaps you've convinced yourself that you can simply deny what you are aware of, and pretend that you don't have this intrinsic awareness at all, but why do you feel so compelled to come here and spend so much time bolstering your disbelief? If you were certain of these things, this would be a major and colossal waste of time. If you were totally comfortable in what you claimed to believe, there would be no need for you to come here and defend/support your beliefs. What you are demonstrating is that you really DON'T believe what you claim and you are trying desperately to convince yourself. Newsflash: That isn't going to ever work.

Do you/he want me to fake it? I can't believe. Sorry. Maybe if you told a better story.

You can't fake it. You can pretend that you don't really believe in any power greater than self, but you're not very convincing to me. I believe that you reject Christianity and the dogma of Christian religion. But you have somehow decided that nullifies God and renders such belief useless. It doesn't. I think that you believe what you are doing here is pulling people away from Christianity by testifying profusely about your conversion to "atheist agnosticism" but even this profession denotes hesitance to completely disavow God. You can't fake it, you're failing to convince me just as you are failing to convince yourself.

You have somehow convinced yourself that you can be an ethical and moral person without spirituality, but you see, you are flawed and fucked up because you aren't greater than self. You're putting all your stock in a faulty vessel and you know this, but you can't seem to stop yourself. This will eventually come back to bite you in the ass, and myself and USMB will probably be a distant memory in the past by then, but you will remember this conversation. Obedience to your spiritual consciousness is the only way to true enlightenment and peace for your soul. You can't fake it.

 

[thanatos144]

Atheism is a cruel and stupid religion.

 

[sealybobo]

But the fact is, if you look at the universe and nature, the way thing are suggests no god.

I disagree. I think the opposite is true. It's not possible the physical universe created itself and it certainly does exist and something set it into motion. It's not possible that life created itself because we know that life only comes from other life. We know of nothing in our reality that created itself, it defies all logic and reason. The ONLY rational explanation is something beyond physical nature is at play. This is why rational human beings with brains and neocortex have pretty much all been spiritually connected, it's almost impossible to rationalize there is no God. Now, you've demonstrated a good effort to do that here, but even you admitted you believe in "Karma" and you claim you are willing to ponder various other religious teachings for some rational reason. I can only surmise you have intrinsic awareness there is something else besides physical nature.

Perhaps you've convinced yourself that you can simply deny what you are aware of, and pretend that you don't have this intrinsic awareness at all, but why do you feel so compelled to come here and spend so much time bolstering your disbelief? If you were certain of these things, this would be a major and colossal waste of time. If you were totally comfortable in what you claimed to believe, there would be no need for you to come here and defend/support your beliefs. What you are demonstrating is that you really DON'T believe what you claim and you are trying desperately to convince yourself. Newsflash: That isn't going to ever work.

Do you/he want me to fake it? I can't believe. Sorry. Maybe if you told a better story.

You can't fake it. You can pretend that you don't really believe in any power greater than self, but you're not very convincing to me. I believe that you reject Christianity and the dogma of Christian religion. But you have somehow decided that nullifies God and renders such belief useless. It doesn't. I think that you believe what you are doing here is pulling people away from Christianity by testifying profusely about your conversion to "atheist agnosticism" but even this profession denotes hesitance to completely disavow God. You can't fake it, you're failing to convince me just as you are failing to convince yourself.

You have somehow convinced yourself that you can be an ethical and moral person without spirituality, but you see, you are flawed and fucked up because you aren't greater than self. You're putting all your stock in a faulty vessel and you know this, but you can't seem to stop yourself. This will eventually come back to bite you in the ass, and myself and USMB will probably be a distant memory in the past by then, but you will remember this conversation. Obedience to your spiritual consciousness is the only way to true enlightenment and peace for your soul. You can't fake it.

Come on Boss you calling the scientific consensus wrong? Last night I was watching a bible show when I got home, and I was thinking about you guys on the ride home too by the way, and was feeling a little guilty when people said things like "boy something bad must have happened to me" or "boy you must be an unhappy blabla" or why do I care so much. To be honest, if there is a god, and I thought there was a few months ago, I do live my life to not be embarrassed or shamed in front of him. But as an atheist I just say, "what would my parents/brother/girlfriend/friends think. This is enough to keep people in check. But I'm watching all these bible shows and listening to all of you and it is quite maddening all the different opinions and beliefs. This alone suggests it's all made up. You however think that just because everyone is spiritual, even with no real guidance other than the human brain, that is somehow enough. I know I'm rambling but I'm just typing as I'm thinking. The guy said last night, who you gonna believe, someone else or this book of god. And the truth is, I'm going to believe science, logic and reason and facts. Everything else is just speculation.

And I noticed last night not one of those talk shows talked one bit about feeding the poor or healing the sick. They only said BELIEVE and you will be rewarded. Send in money and you will get your wish. God said this and god said that. Come on Boss. You admit that's all made up, right? Oh yea, you are a half breed. You believe in hell but not any of the organized religions. But because we invented hell in our minds it must be true. Same with the boogy man and my mom.

Anyways, you guys ask why we persist. Why we seem so angry? I've told you before, we don't think religion is harmless.

Stalinism and Communism exercised gosateizm (state atheism) based on the ideology of Marxism-Leninism. Atheism was a means to an end, not a cause.

 

[sealybobo]

Atheism is a cruel and stupid religion.

No, it's not. There are no calls for slavery, rape or murder in the atheist holy book.

Atheists are most often called ‘militant’ when they passionately defend reason and advocate critical thinking. The bar theists set for perceived hostility appears to be any atheist simply voicing an opinion in dissent of religious belief. In contrast, the bar atheists set for perceived theistic hostility is any form of religiously motivated violence or oppression.

Atheism does not preclude someone from being argumentative or insensitive; those things are simply seen as being preferable to killing one another over an imaginary friend.

A ‘militant’ atheist will debate in a University theatre or appeal for the separation of religion and government. A militant theist will kill doctors, stone women to death, incite religious war, restrict sexual and gender equality and convince children they are flawed and worthless – all under the instruction of their imagined ‘god’ or holy book.

It can be argued that there is no such thing as a ‘militant’ atheist, that the term is itself a misnomer, because there is simply no ideology or philosophy in atheism to be militant about. If an atheist is someone who lacks belief in gods, then a ‘militant’ atheist is apparently someone who passionately lacks a belief in gods. All other possible beliefs and ideologies – including any desire to oppress theism – come from outside atheism. This is in contrast to religious belief, which often includes a set of laws and commandments purportedly derived from a supernatural source about which one can be ‘militant’.

Note: ‘Militant’ atheism is most often confused with gosateizm (state atheism), which was based on the ideology of Marxism-Leninism. It was this ideology which was responsible for the oppression and murder of theists under several 20th century communist regimes. Atheism is simply a lack of belief in gods with no inherit moral, political or philosophical baggage.

 

[GISMYS]

But the fact is, if you look at the universe and nature, the way thing are suggests no god.

I disagree. I think the opposite is true. It's not possible the physical universe created itself and it certainly does exist and something set it into motion. It's not possible that life created itself because we know that life only comes from other life. We know of nothing in our reality that created itself, it defies all logic and reason. The ONLY rational explanation is something beyond physical nature is at play. This is why rational human beings with brains and neocortex have pretty much all been spiritually connected, it's almost impossible to rationalize there is no God. Now, you've demonstrated a good effort to do that here, but even you admitted you believe in "Karma" and you claim you are willing to ponder various other religious teachings for some rational reason. I can only surmise you have intrinsic awareness there is something else besides physical nature.

Perhaps you've convinced yourself that you can simply deny what you are aware of, and pretend that you don't have this intrinsic awareness at all, but why do you feel so compelled to come here and spend so much time bolstering your disbelief? If you were certain of these things, this would be a major and colossal waste of time. If you were totally comfortable in what you claimed to believe, there would be no need for you to come here and defend/support your beliefs. What you are demonstrating is that you really DON'T believe what you claim and you are trying desperately to convince yourself. Newsflash: That isn't going to ever work.

Do you/he want me to fake it? I can't believe. Sorry. Maybe if you told a better story.

You can't fake it. You can pretend that you don't really believe in any power greater than self, but you're not very convincing to me. I believe that you reject Christianity and the dogma of Christian religion. But you have somehow decided that nullifies God and renders such belief useless. It doesn't. I think that you believe what you are doing here is pulling people away from Christianity by testifying profusely about your conversion to "atheist agnosticism" but even this profession denotes hesitance to completely disavow God. You can't fake it, you're failing to convince me just as you are failing to convince yourself.

You have somehow convinced yourself that you can be an ethical and moral person without spirituality, but you see, you are flawed and fucked up because you aren't greater than self. You're putting all your stock in a faulty vessel and you know this, but you can't seem to stop yourself. This will eventually come back to bite you in the ass, and myself and USMB will probably be a distant memory in the past by then, but you will remember this conversation. Obedience to your spiritual consciousness is the only way to true enlightenment and peace for your soul. You can't fake it.

Come on Boss you calling the scientific consensus wrong? Last night I was watching a bible show when I got home, and I was thinking about you guys on the ride home too by the way, and was feeling a little guilty when people said things like "boy something bad must have happened to me" or "boy you must be an unhappy blabla" or why do I care so much. To be honest, if there is a god, and I thought there was a few months ago, I do live my life to not be embarrassed or shamed in front of him. But as an atheist I just say, "what would my parents/brother/girlfriend/friends think. This is enough to keep people in check. But I'm watching all these bible shows and listening to all of you and it is quite maddening all the different opinions and beliefs. This alone suggests it's all made up. You however think that just because everyone is spiritual, even with no real guidance other than the human brain, that is somehow enough. I know I'm rambling but I'm just typing as I'm thinking. The guy said last night, who you gonna believe, someone else or this book of god. And the truth is, I'm going to believe science, logic and reason and facts. Everything else is just speculation.

And I noticed last night not one of those talk shows talked one bit about feeding the poor or healing the sick. They only said BELIEVE and you will be rewarded. Send in money and you will get your wish. God said this and god said that. Come on Boss. You admit that's all made up, right? Oh yea, you are a half breed. You believe in hell but not any of the organized religions. But because we invented hell in our minds it must be true. Same with the boogy man and my mom.

Anyways, you guys ask why we persist. Why we seem so angry? I've told you before, we don't think religion is harmless.

Stalinism and Communism exercised gosateizm (state atheism) based on the ideology of Marxism-Leninism. Atheism was a means to an end, not a cause.

BOTTOMLINE= YOU CHOOSE TO TRY NOT TO BELIEVE IN GOD BECAUSE YOU LOVE YOUR SIN AND YOU KNOW YOU WILL FACE YOUR FINAL JUDGMENT DAY IF YOU FACE THE TRUTH=ALMIGHTY GOD IS ALMIGHTY GOD!!! That is the BOTTOMLINE!

 

[Montrovant]

But the fact is, if you look at the universe and nature, the way thing are suggests no god.

I disagree. I think the opposite is true. It's not possible the physical universe created itself and it certainly does exist and something set it into motion. It's not possible that life created itself because we know that life only comes from other life. We know of nothing in our reality that created itself, it defies all logic and reason. The ONLY rational explanation is something beyond physical nature is at play. This is why rational human beings with brains and neocortex have pretty much all been spiritually connected, it's almost impossible to rationalize there is no God. Now, you've demonstrated a good effort to do that here, but even you admitted you believe in "Karma" and you claim you are willing to ponder various other religious teachings for some rational reason. I can only surmise you have intrinsic awareness there is something else besides physical nature.

Perhaps you've convinced yourself that you can simply deny what you are aware of, and pretend that you don't have this intrinsic awareness at all, but why do you feel so compelled to come here and spend so much time bolstering your disbelief? If you were certain of these things, this would be a major and colossal waste of time. If you were totally comfortable in what you claimed to believe, there would be no need for you to come here and defend/support your beliefs. What you are demonstrating is that you really DON'T believe what you claim and you are trying desperately to convince yourself. Newsflash: That isn't going to ever work.

Do you/he want me to fake it? I can't believe. Sorry. Maybe if you told a better story.

You can't fake it. You can pretend that you don't really believe in any power greater than self, but you're not very convincing to me. I believe that you reject Christianity and the dogma of Christian religion. But you have somehow decided that nullifies God and renders such belief useless. It doesn't. I think that you believe what you are doing here is pulling people away from Christianity by testifying profusely about your conversion to "atheist agnosticism" but even this profession denotes hesitance to completely disavow God. You can't fake it, you're failing to convince me just as you are failing to convince yourself.

You have somehow convinced yourself that you can be an ethical and moral person without spirituality, but you see, you are flawed and fucked up because you aren't greater than self. You're putting all your stock in a faulty vessel and you know this, but you can't seem to stop yourself. This will eventually come back to bite you in the ass, and myself and USMB will probably be a distant memory in the past by then, but you will remember this conversation. Obedience to your spiritual consciousness is the only way to true enlightenment and peace for your soul. You can't fake it.

Based on the section in bold, can we assume that you are not totally comfortable with what you believe and really DON'T believe in spiritual nature, but are trying desperately to convince yourself?

 

[sealybobo]

I disagree. I think the opposite is true. It's not possible the physical universe created itself and it certainly does exist and something set it into motion. It's not possible that life created itself because we know that life only comes from other life. We know of nothing in our reality that created itself, it defies all logic and reason. The ONLY rational explanation is something beyond physical nature is at play. This is why rational human beings with brains and neocortex have pretty much all been spiritually connected, it's almost impossible to rationalize there is no God. Now, you've demonstrated a good effort to do that here, but even you admitted you believe in "Karma" and you claim you are willing to ponder various other religious teachings for some rational reason. I can only surmise you have intrinsic awareness there is something else besides physical nature.

Perhaps you've convinced yourself that you can simply deny what you are aware of, and pretend that you don't have this intrinsic awareness at all, but why do you feel so compelled to come here and spend so much time bolstering your disbelief? If you were certain of these things, this would be a major and colossal waste of time. If you were totally comfortable in what you claimed to believe, there would be no need for you to come here and defend/support your beliefs. What you are demonstrating is that you really DON'T believe what you claim and you are trying desperately to convince yourself. Newsflash: That isn't going to ever work.



You can't fake it. You can pretend that you don't really believe in any power greater than self, but you're not very convincing to me. I believe that you reject Christianity and the dogma of Christian religion. But you have somehow decided that nullifies God and renders such belief useless. It doesn't. I think that you believe what you are doing here is pulling people away from Christianity by testifying profusely about your conversion to "atheist agnosticism" but even this profession denotes hesitance to completely disavow God. You can't fake it, you're failing to convince me just as you are failing to convince yourself.

You have somehow convinced yourself that you can be an ethical and moral person without spirituality, but you see, you are flawed and fucked up because you aren't greater than self. You're putting all your stock in a faulty vessel and you know this, but you can't seem to stop yourself. This will eventually come back to bite you in the ass, and myself and USMB will probably be a distant memory in the past by then, but you will remember this conversation. Obedience to your spiritual consciousness is the only way to true enlightenment and peace for your soul. You can't fake it.

Come on Boss you calling the scientific consensus wrong? Last night I was watching a bible show when I got home, and I was thinking about you guys on the ride home too by the way, and was feeling a little guilty when people said things like "boy something bad must have happened to me" or "boy you must be an unhappy blabla" or why do I care so much. To be honest, if there is a god, and I thought there was a few months ago, I do live my life to not be embarrassed or shamed in front of him. But as an atheist I just say, "what would my parents/brother/girlfriend/friends think. This is enough to keep people in check. But I'm watching all these bible shows and listening to all of you and it is quite maddening all the different opinions and beliefs. This alone suggests it's all made up. You however think that just because everyone is spiritual, even with no real guidance other than the human brain, that is somehow enough. I know I'm rambling but I'm just typing as I'm thinking. The guy said last night, who you gonna believe, someone else or this book of god. And the truth is, I'm going to believe science, logic and reason and facts. Everything else is just speculation.

And I noticed last night not one of those talk shows talked one bit about feeding the poor or healing the sick. They only said BELIEVE and you will be rewarded. Send in money and you will get your wish. God said this and god said that. Come on Boss. You admit that's all made up, right? Oh yea, you are a half breed. You believe in hell but not any of the organized religions. But because we invented hell in our minds it must be true. Same with the boogy man and my mom.

Anyways, you guys ask why we persist. Why we seem so angry? I've told you before, we don't think religion is harmless.

Stalinism and Communism exercised gosateizm (state atheism) based on the ideology of Marxism-Leninism. Atheism was a means to an end, not a cause.

BOTTOMLINE= YOU CHOOSE TO TRY NOT TO BELIEVE IN GOD BECAUSE YOU LOVE YOUR SIN AND YOU KNOW YOU WILL FACE YOUR FINAL JUDGMENT DAY IF YOU FACE THE TRUTH=ALMIGHTY GOD IS ALMIGHTY GOD!!! That is the BOTTOMLINE!

No. What you say makes no sense. If I thought for a minute you were right I'd repent. Do you think I would choose to burn fall all eternity? The fact is I don't believe you and THAT'S THE BOTTOM LINE.

 

[sealybobo]

But the fact is, if you look at the universe and nature, the way thing are suggests no god.

I disagree. I think the opposite is true. It's not possible the physical universe created itself and it certainly does exist and something set it into motion. It's not possible that life created itself because we know that life only comes from other life. We know of nothing in our reality that created itself, it defies all logic and reason. The ONLY rational explanation is something beyond physical nature is at play. This is why rational human beings with brains and neocortex have pretty much all been spiritually connected, it's almost impossible to rationalize there is no God. Now, you've demonstrated a good effort to do that here, but even you admitted you believe in "Karma" and you claim you are willing to ponder various other religious teachings for some rational reason. I can only surmise you have intrinsic awareness there is something else besides physical nature.

Perhaps you've convinced yourself that you can simply deny what you are aware of, and pretend that you don't have this intrinsic awareness at all, but why do you feel so compelled to come here and spend so much time bolstering your disbelief? If you were certain of these things, this would be a major and colossal waste of time. If you were totally comfortable in what you claimed to believe, there would be no need for you to come here and defend/support your beliefs. What you are demonstrating is that you really DON'T believe what you claim and you are trying desperately to convince yourself. Newsflash: That isn't going to ever work.

Do you/he want me to fake it? I can't believe. Sorry. Maybe if you told a better story.

You can't fake it. You can pretend that you don't really believe in any power greater than self, but you're not very convincing to me. I believe that you reject Christianity and the dogma of Christian religion. But you have somehow decided that nullifies God and renders such belief useless. It doesn't. I think that you believe what you are doing here is pulling people away from Christianity by testifying profusely about your conversion to "atheist agnosticism" but even this profession denotes hesitance to completely disavow God. You can't fake it, you're failing to convince me just as you are failing to convince yourself.

You have somehow convinced yourself that you can be an ethical and moral person without spirituality, but you see, you are flawed and fucked up because you aren't greater than self. You're putting all your stock in a faulty vessel and you know this, but you can't seem to stop yourself. This will eventually come back to bite you in the ass, and myself and USMB will probably be a distant memory in the past by then, but you will remember this conversation. Obedience to your spiritual consciousness is the only way to true enlightenment and peace for your soul. You can't fake it.

Based on the section in bold, can we assume that you are not totally comfortable with what you believe and really DON'T believe in spiritual nature, but are trying desperately to convince yourself?

Of course that's what it is. Here is the facts. Boss is at least smart enough not to be a bible thumper. He knows all organized religions are indefensible but like my dad, he just can't get himself to admit that the likelihood of their being a god is virtually slim to nill. At least as far as our definition of god, an all knowing guy who created us in his image, flooded the earth on purpose, knocked up mary. Boss is smart enough that he doesn't try to defend these stories but he can't go that one last step and admit that god doesn't exist. If he did he certainly wouldn't be hiding from us. What a stupid story. So he picks and chooses what nonsense to believe.

 

[The Irish Ram]

If every church on earth is corrupted by man, how does that equate to there not being a God?
God was sitting on a mt. when man was right below Him melting gold for an idol to worship. Don't blame God for man's inadequacies. We screw up everything.
Thank Him for loving us in spite of our infirmities.

 

[BreezeWood]

I R: God was sitting on a mt. when man was right below Him melting gold for an idol to worship.

whose fault was that ? - maybe G should come down from the mt., (for those who doubt).

.

 

[The Irish Ram]

I R: God was sitting on a mt. when man was right below Him melting gold for an idol to worship.

whose fault was that ? - maybe G should come down from the mt., (for those who doubt).

.

He'd rather sit on High and draw His children near to Him, where He belongs, where we belong.
Keep in mind that during the day He was shade in the desert. At night He was the fire that warmed them, the one that forgave them while they were sinning, and the one providing all of the food and water for the trip.

It's called grace, unmerited favor. That you require more is your fault, not His.
Christ is our portion.

 

[BreezeWood]

I R: God was sitting on a mt. when man was right below Him melting gold for an idol to worship.

whose fault was that ? - maybe G should come down from the mt., (for those who doubt).

.

He'd rather sit on High and draw His children near to Him, where He belongs, where we belong.
Keep in mind that during the day He was shade in the desert. At night He was the fire that warmed them, the one that forgave them while they were sinning, and the one providing all of the food and water for the trip.

It's called grace, unmerited favor. That you require more is your fault, not His.
Christ is our portion.

- and coming down from the mt. for those who do not know for the better ...

.

 

[Boss]

Come on Boss you calling the scientific consensus wrong?

Well here we go again, one minute you admit that "we simply don't know" then it evolves into scientific consensus! IF there is a scientific consensus that God doesn't exist, present their evidence. I've never seen this, I know of NO scientist who has ever proclaimed this. I think it's a consensus that science doesn't know and can't answer this question. However, I am willing to hear any evidence you think makes this a scientific consensus.

can we assume that you are not totally comfortable with what you believe and really DON'T believe in spiritual nature, but are trying desperately to convince yourself?

Well no. Because I have never stated that my viewpoint is a scientific consensus, or that I am even absolutely right in my beliefs. I have repeatedly stated that I "believe" in spiritual nature because I connect with it daily. If I didn't have that connection, I would be skeptical. I am skeptical about religion and religious claims, I've not been convinced they are true. Again, I don't know they aren't, I've not claimed they aren't. I just don't happen to believe in religious doctrines and I've stated why.

 

[Boss]

But I'm watching all these bible shows and listening to all of you and it is quite maddening all the different opinions and beliefs. This alone suggests it's all made up.

Let's imagine for a moment, you have been dispatched to a small village in Africa to investigate a report of a UFO. You set up camp and begin to interview the villagers. One by one, they tell you their story. One man saw three red lights in the sky, another man saw three white lights. One woman heard a noise and saw a glow in the sky, another woman heard no noise but saw the same glow. One man says he saw the spaceship itself, another man saw it hovering over the village, yet another saw it fly by quickly and vanish without a trace. In the end, nearly all the villagers reported seeing something they couldn't explain, only a couple saw and heard nothing.

Now since their stories all differed in what they supposedly saw, do you conclude they imagined this and it wasn't real? Or is it more than likely they DID see something and their stories simply differ because perceptions are different in eyewitness testimony?

The fact that 88% of the human species believes (and always have) that they make a real spiritual connection, is much more significant than the fact they experience these connections differently and have different perspective of what they experience. The fact that perspectives of an experience differ from person to person does NOT suggest the experience did not happen. This is not supported by science or logic, and it's not even a rational conclusion.

 

[Montrovant]

Come on Boss you calling the scientific consensus wrong?

Well here we go again, one minute you admit that "we simply don't know" then it evolves into scientific consensus! IF there is a scientific consensus that God doesn't exist, present their evidence. I've never seen this, I know of NO scientist who has ever proclaimed this. I think it's a consensus that science doesn't know and can't answer this question. However, I am willing to hear any evidence you think makes this a scientific consensus.

can we assume that you are not totally comfortable with what you believe and really DON'T believe in spiritual nature, but are trying desperately to convince yourself?

Well no. Because I have never stated that my viewpoint is a scientific consensus, or that I am even absolutely right in my beliefs. I have repeatedly stated that I "believe" in spiritual nature because I connect with it daily. If I didn't have that connection, I would be skeptical. I am skeptical about religion and religious claims, I've not been convinced they are true. Again, I don't know they aren't, I've not claimed they aren't. I just don't happen to believe in religious doctrines and I've stated why.

Ah. Has sealybobo said that he is absolutely right in his beliefs?

Whatever the case may be for that, the post I quoted didn't say that only those who think they are absolutely right in their beliefs are not totally comfortable etc. And while I disagree with how adamant sealy comes across that there is no god, you have certainly presented your case as though you feel absolutely confident in your beliefs.

 

[sealybobo]

Come on Boss you calling the scientific consensus wrong?

Well here we go again, one minute you admit that "we simply don't know" then it evolves into scientific consensus! IF there is a scientific consensus that God doesn't exist, present their evidence. I've never seen this, I know of NO scientist who has ever proclaimed this. I think it's a consensus that science doesn't know and can't answer this question. However, I am willing to hear any evidence you think makes this a scientific consensus.

can we assume that you are not totally comfortable with what you believe and really DON'T believe in spiritual nature, but are trying desperately to convince yourself?

Well no. Because I have never stated that my viewpoint is a scientific consensus, or that I am even absolutely right in my beliefs. I have repeatedly stated that I "believe" in spiritual nature because I connect with it daily. If I didn't have that connection, I would be skeptical. I am skeptical about religion and religious claims, I've not been convinced they are true. Again, I don't know they aren't, I've not claimed they aren't. I just don't happen to believe in religious doctrines and I've stated why.

Apologetics Press - "Evolution is the Scientific Consensus?So You Should Believe It!?

“God is an ever-receding pocket of ignorance that’s getting smaller and smaller as time goes on.”- Neil deGrasse Tyson