Why do the God-haters persist?

[Derideo_Te]

I already knew what you were going to post before I made my first response to you. What you have "evidence" of is brain activity, nothing more. You cannot show the person was in a "spiritual trance" as opposed to any other kind of trance, only that their brain was active. Now you can certainly have FAITH in your belief that this "proves" something, I won't argue there. But you've not shown evidence of what you claimed.

at the OP claiming "psychic powers" now!

And you just debunked you own allegation that "billions of people" are "evidence" of "spiritual energy".

These were experienced spiritual mediums that acknowledged that they were "communicating" and having "out of body" experiences while they were being scientifically monitored. The monitored readings show that their brains were operating in different states while in a spiritual trance as opposed to normal functioning. This data meets all the criteria for reproducible scientific studies.

Your desperation is showing now that you are trying to claim that there has to be "belief" and "faith" where none is needed.

All it "shows" is measured activity in the brain. Different activity causes different measurements, that doesn't "prove" anything. Spirituality is not an "out of body" experience, I am very much IN my body when I connect spiritually.

There is no "desperation" on my part when I correctly state that ANYTHING you believe requires belief... that's logic. Faith is required for ANY belief. Again, that is logic not desperation. If you can give an example of something you believe without belief, or something you believe in without faith in that belief, then go for it. I predict this is not possible.

You made this absurd allegation;

You have faith that gravity will work as you believe.

Factual scientific knowledge of gravity requires neither faith nor belief.

Your dishonest allegation that it does just destroys your own credibility!

 

[Boss]

Knowledge does not require belief. Take a hammer and drop it on your foot. The hammer is real, gravity is real and the pain in your foot is real. All of them are physical and measurable scientifically.

Only a fanatic is stupid enough to claim that "beliefs ARE science"!

Everything you believe requires belief.

No belief is required for factual knowledge!

Yes, you have to believe it is factual knowledge.

Taking a hammer and dropping it on your foot is not a belief, it is an action. When you conduct this action, you believe the force of gravity will work. You believe that when the force of gravity works and the hammer hits your foot it will cause pain. Your experiment confirms those beliefs. You have faith your beliefs are valid. You have faith that gravity will work as you believe. What if you are standing on the moon when you do this? Will pain still result? No, because gravity doesn't cause the same effect on the moon as it does on Earth. This doesn't mean gravity isn't real or your faith is invalid.

Your ignorance is on display again! The same experiment works on the moon and it proves that gravity is real because the pain that you feel will be far less since the hammer only weighs 1/6th of what it does on earth. No belief required.

Yes, the same experiment works and the result is different. Your belief that dropping a hammer on your foot causes pain is not valid on the moon. Your belief in how gravity reacts with the hammer is not the same on the moon.

Now you introduced "knowledge" into the equation. Knowledge requires faith. In order to know something, you must have faith it is true. It's impossible to know something if you lack faith that it is true. All "known facts" require your faith in the belief they are true. There are NO exceptions.

 

[daws101]

the spiritual connection you're always blathering about is not detectable ,not because science is not to the task but because there is nothing there to evaluate..and you say you don't misrepresent..

Most rational people will agree that science is the examination of the physical universe. How can it evaluate the spiritual? This would defy logic. If physical sciences could evaluate the spiritual, they would no longer be spiritual, by definition. So we see here who is doing the misrepresenting, and it is you. Once again, you want to irrationally demand that science of physical nature offer some evidence to support spiritual nature, which it can't do. Then you want to take that fact and parlay it into an argument that spiritual nature must not exist.

It is the rational equivalent of asking your dog to explain nuclear physics and when he can't, proclaiming nuclear physics must certainly not be real... the dog couldn't explain it.

that the second time you've used that bullshit to dodge..
btw what I'm asking is not irrational ..it's just another dodge by you.
if something is experienced in this physical universe ..that's everything including spirituality,it must have a physical component or attribute that can be measured and tested.
as I said before science is more then capable of testing and analyzing spirituality.
if we can catch neutrinos : A neutrino is an electrically neutral, weakly interacting elementary subatomic particle with half-integer spin. The neutrino is denoted by the Greek letter ν. All evidence suggests that neutrinos have mass but the upper bounds established for their mass are tiny even by the standards of subatomic particles."
then seeing if and how spirituality works ,should be a snap..

 

[daws101]

Finally, be strong in the Lord and in the strength of his might. Put on the whole armor of God, that you may be able to stand against the schemes of the devil. For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the cosmic powers over this present darkness, against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly places. Therefore take up the whole armor of God, that you may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand firm. Stand therefore, having fastened on the belt of truth, and having put on the breastplate of righteousness, and, as shoes for your feet, having put on the readiness given by the gospel of peace. In all circumstances take up the shield of faith, with which you can extinguish all the flaming darts of the evil one; and take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God, praying at all times in the Spirit, with all prayer and supplication. To that end keep alert with all perseverance, making supplication for all the saints, and also for me, that words may be given to me in opening my mouth boldly to proclaim the mystery of the gospel, for which I am an ambassador in chains, that I may declare it boldly, as I ought to speak.

Ephesians 6 (English Standard Version)

speaking of belief not fact!

 

[Boss]

Factual scientific knowledge of gravity requires neither faith nor belief.

Well I am sorry, but yes it does.

 

[daws101]

Knowledge does not require belief. Take a hammer and drop it on your foot. The hammer is real, gravity is real and the pain in your foot is real. All of them are physical and measurable scientifically.

Only a fanatic is stupid enough to claim that "beliefs ARE science"!

Everything you believe requires belief.

Taking a hammer and dropping it on your foot is not a belief, it is an action. When you conduct this action, you believe the force of gravity will work. You believe that when the force of gravity works and the hammer hits your foot it will cause pain. Your experiment confirms those beliefs. You have faith your beliefs are valid. You have faith that gravity will work as you believe. What if you are standing on the moon when you do this? Will pain still result? No, because gravity doesn't cause the same effect on the moon as it does on Earth. This doesn't mean gravity isn't real or your faith is invalid.

best steaming pile of bullshit award goes to.....

 

[Derideo_Te]

Everything you believe requires belief.

No belief is required for factual knowledge!

Yes, you have to believe it is factual knowledge.

Taking a hammer and dropping it on your foot is not a belief, it is an action. When you conduct this action, you believe the force of gravity will work. You believe that when the force of gravity works and the hammer hits your foot it will cause pain. Your experiment confirms those beliefs. You have faith your beliefs are valid. You have faith that gravity will work as you believe. What if you are standing on the moon when you do this? Will pain still result? No, because gravity doesn't cause the same effect on the moon as it does on Earth. This doesn't mean gravity isn't real or your faith is invalid.

Your ignorance is on display again! The same experiment works on the moon and it proves that gravity is real because the pain that you feel will be far less since the hammer only weighs 1/6th of what it does on earth. No belief required.

Yes, the same experiment works and the result is different. Your belief that dropping a hammer on your foot causes pain is not valid on the moon. Your belief in how gravity reacts with the hammer is not the same on the moon.

Now you introduced "knowledge" into the equation. Knowledge requires faith. In order to know something, you must have faith it is true. It's impossible to know something if you lack faith that it is true. All "known facts" require your faith in the belief they are true. There are NO exceptions.

You are drowning in denial!

 

[Boss]

the spiritual connection you're always blathering about is not detectable ,not because science is not to the task but because there is nothing there to evaluate..and you say you don't misrepresent..

Most rational people will agree that science is the examination of the physical universe. How can it evaluate the spiritual? This would defy logic. If physical sciences could evaluate the spiritual, they would no longer be spiritual, by definition. So we see here who is doing the misrepresenting, and it is you. Once again, you want to irrationally demand that science of physical nature offer some evidence to support spiritual nature, which it can't do. Then you want to take that fact and parlay it into an argument that spiritual nature must not exist.

It is the rational equivalent of asking your dog to explain nuclear physics and when he can't, proclaiming nuclear physics must certainly not be real... the dog couldn't explain it.

that the second time you've used that bullshit to dodge..
btw what I'm asking is not irrational ..it's just another dodge by you.
if something is experienced in this physical universe ..that's everything including spirituality,it must have a physical component or attribute that can be measured and tested.
as I said before science is more then capable of testing and analyzing spirituality.
if we can catch neutrinos : A neutrino is an electrically neutral, weakly interacting elementary subatomic particle with half-integer spin. The neutrino is denoted by the Greek letter ν. All evidence suggests that neutrinos have mass but the upper bounds established for their mass are tiny even by the standards of subatomic particles."
then seeing if and how spirituality works ,should be a snap..

And perhaps one day it will be a snap. For now, physical science can't evaluate spiritual nature. Maybe one day, my dog will be able to explain nuclear physics or quantum theory? The fact that he can't do that today doesn't mean it's not real or doesn't exist. The same can be said for spiritual nature.

 

[Boss]

You are drowning in denial!

Then you should be able to demonstrate that.

 

[daws101]

Factual scientific knowledge of gravity requires neither faith nor belief.

Well I am sorry, but yes it does.

to you maybe in reality not so much.
besides you have to say that or your already silly and ignorant argument will shatter.
any way the point here is not that god haters nonsense it's true propose is to showcase your hubris and total self involvement... the rest is window dressing.

 

[Boss]

knowing something is true because it can be tested and verified is not the same as believing something to be true even though it cannot be tested or verified.

But here is the problem, you continue to assume that spiritual faith is untested and unverified. You are correct, you can't believe anything without faith. Not science, not theory, not religion, not God. Nothing. In order to believe it, you must have faith. There is no exception to this, no matter how hard you try.

 

[Derideo_Te]

Factual scientific knowledge of gravity requires neither faith nor belief.

Well I am sorry, but yes it does.

Prove it!

Provide credible factual scientific proof of that allegation!

 

[Derideo_Te]

You are drowning in denial!

Then you should be able to demonstrate that.

Your posts are evidence of your denial. You falsely allege that factual scientific knowledge requires faith and belief when it doesn't.

 

[Boss]

Factual scientific knowledge of gravity requires neither faith nor belief.

Well I am sorry, but yes it does.

to you maybe in reality not so much.
besides you have to say that or your already silly and ignorant argument will shatter.
any way the point here is not that god haters nonsense it's true propose is to showcase your hubris and total self involvement... the rest is window dressing.

No, in reality. You have to believe something is A.) Factual B.) Scientific and C.) Knowledge in order to believe it. If you don't have faith in that belief, you can't believe it. It doesn't matter if that thing is "gravity" or "God" it still requires faith and belief.

 

[Boss]

You are drowning in denial!

Then you should be able to demonstrate that.

Your posts are evidence of your denial. You falsely allege that factual scientific knowledge requires faith and belief when it doesn't.

But it does.

 

[Boss]

You falsely allege that factual scientific knowledge requires faith and belief when it doesn't.

Then present for us an example of something you have no faith or belief in that you consider to be factual scientific knowledge?

.........Waiting

 

[Derideo_Te]

Then you should be able to demonstrate that.

Your posts are evidence of your denial. You falsely allege that factual scientific knowledge requires faith and belief when it doesn't.

But it does.

BZZZZT Wrong again!

 

[Boss]

Still waiting.....

 

[Boss]

Anybody??? .....Hellooooo???

 

[Derideo_Te]

You falsely allege that factual scientific knowledge requires faith and belief when it doesn't.

Then present for us an example of something you have no faith or belief in that you consider to be factual scientific knowledge?

.........Waiting

Already done so!

If I let go of a hammer the force of gravity will accelerate it at 32 feet/sec towards the ground and if my foot is in the way when that kinetic energy transfers from the hammer into the tissues of my foot the nerve endings will relay the pain via measurable electric signals to my brain. All of this is scientifically measurable and repeatable and will give the same results each and every time the experiment is perfromed. No faith or belief is required to measure the acceleration of gravity, the kinetic energy of the hammer, the electrical impulses of the nerves or the brain waves that are the result.