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Don't worry; Dink will be here shortly to try and change the topic. Likely claim that you "called him out"; or some other such nonsense that fulfills his persecution complex...Yet another red herring. why am I not surprised...
It has often been pointed out all of the things that have occurred under the "guidance" of Christianity, through history, and the question has been asked, "Where has atheism been?" I thought that, perhaps it was time to put things into perspective.
During the Early Middle Ages and Middle Ages, the open espousal of atheistic views was rare in Europe, and atheism was a very uncommon, even dangerous, doctrine to hold. The charge of atheism was regularly used as way of attacking one's political or religious enemies, and the repercussions were severe. However, certain heterodox views were put forward by individual theologists such as Johannes Scotus Eriugena, David of Dinant, Amalric of Bena and William of Ockham, and by groups like the Brethren of the Free Spirit, and several writers mention that there were “not a few” (in the words of John Calvin) who denied the existence of God.
For most of the Middle Ages, religion was so universally dominant that it was not even believed possible that someone could deny the existence of God. Heterodox views were equally rare in the medieval Islamic world, although the 9th Century scholar Ibn al-Rawandi did go so far as to criticize the notion of religious prophecy (including even that of Mohammed), and maintained that religious dogmas were not acceptable to reason and must be rejected.
The European Renaissance of the 15th to 17th Centuries did much to expand the scope of freethought and skeptical inquiry, although criticisms of the religious establishment (such as those of Niccolò Machiavelli, Leonardo da Vinci, Bonaventure des Périers and François Rabelais) usually did not amount to actual atheism. As the scientific discoveries of Copernicus and Galileo became increasingly accepted, man's long-assumed privileged place in the universe appeared less and less justifiable. Progressive thinkers like Giordano Bruno, Lucilio Vanini and Galileo Galilei, bravely battling against the odds, were all savagely persecuted by the powerful Catholic Church of their time. Among those executed (often after torture) for the crime of atheism were Étienne Dolet in 1546, Giordano Bruno in 1600, Lucilio Vanini in 1619, Kazimierz Lyszczynskiin 1689 and Jean-François de la Barre as late as 1766.
With the religious infighting during the Protestant Reformation in the 16th Century, dissent of all kinds flourished, and some sects (such as the Anabaptists, Unitarians and Deists) developed much more humanist and less traditionally religious variants. Criticism of Christianity became increasingly frequent in the 17th and 18th Centuries, led by independent thinkers such as Thomas Hobbes, Baruch Spinoza and David Hume. The number of outspoken refutations to atheism during this period attests to the increasing prevalence of atheist positions, with some of the strongest anti-atheist apologists even attempting to deny the very existence of the movement they sought to crush. The British Blasphemy Act of 1677 specifically mentioned atheism and prescribed the death sentence for it.
So, when anyone questions why Atheists were not a stronger influence on history, the answer is very sim[ple: because that benevolent, loving religion Christianity saw to it through threats of imprisonment, loss of property, and even death that no one would ever even admit that they were an atheist.
So, whenever someone waxes poetic about all of the glorious things that Christianity has done for society through history, just remember that it has done so while also being the most repressive, oppressive, violent, and intolerant influences in history.
Incase you forgot Poindexter.Boy, you really do like red herrings, don't you? Do you think you might post anything remotely related to the OP at any point during this discussion, or is that just too difficult for your tiny little brain?
How does that differ from sensible "moral" killing with a "moral compass"?It has often been pointed out all of the things that have occurred under the "guidance" of Christianity, through history, and the question has been asked, "Where has atheism been?" I thought that, perhaps it was time to put things into perspective.
During the Early Middle Ages and Middle Ages, the open espousal of atheistic views was rare in Europe, and atheism was a very uncommon, even dangerous, doctrine to hold. The charge of atheism was regularly used as way of attacking one's political or religious enemies, and the repercussions were severe. However, certain heterodox views were put forward by individual theologists such as Johannes Scotus Eriugena, David of Dinant, Amalric of Bena and William of Ockham, and by groups like the Brethren of the Free Spirit, and several writers mention that there were “not a few” (in the words of John Calvin) who denied the existence of God.
For most of the Middle Ages, religion was so universally dominant that it was not even believed possible that someone could deny the existence of God. Heterodox views were equally rare in the medieval Islamic world, although the 9th Century scholar Ibn al-Rawandi did go so far as to criticize the notion of religious prophecy (including even that of Mohammed), and maintained that religious dogmas were not acceptable to reason and must be rejected.
The European Renaissance of the 15th to 17th Centuries did much to expand the scope of freethought and skeptical inquiry, although criticisms of the religious establishment (such as those of Niccolò Machiavelli, Leonardo da Vinci, Bonaventure des Périers and François Rabelais) usually did not amount to actual atheism. As the scientific discoveries of Copernicus and Galileo became increasingly accepted, man's long-assumed privileged place in the universe appeared less and less justifiable. Progressive thinkers like Giordano Bruno, Lucilio Vanini and Galileo Galilei, bravely battling against the odds, were all savagely persecuted by the powerful Catholic Church of their time. Among those executed (often after torture) for the crime of atheism were Étienne Dolet in 1546, Giordano Bruno in 1600, Lucilio Vanini in 1619, Kazimierz Lyszczynskiin 1689 and Jean-François de la Barre as late as 1766.
With the religious infighting during the Protestant Reformation in the 16th Century, dissent of all kinds flourished, and some sects (such as the Anabaptists, Unitarians and Deists) developed much more humanist and less traditionally religious variants. Criticism of Christianity became increasingly frequent in the 17th and 18th Centuries, led by independent thinkers such as Thomas Hobbes, Baruch Spinoza and David Hume. The number of outspoken refutations to atheism during this period attests to the increasing prevalence of atheist positions, with some of the strongest anti-atheist apologists even attempting to deny the very existence of the movement they sought to crush. The British Blasphemy Act of 1677 specifically mentioned atheism and prescribed the death sentence for it.
So, when anyone questions why Atheists were not a stronger influence on history, the answer is very sim[ple: because that benevolent, loving religion Christianity saw to it through threats of imprisonment, loss of property, and even death that no one would ever even admit that they were an atheist.
So, whenever someone waxes poetic about all of the glorious things that Christianity has done for society through history, just remember that it has done so while also being the most repressive, oppressive, violent, and intolerant influences in history.
Because people know that historically, Atheism leads to a lot of senseless, amoral killing with no moral compass.
Off the top of my head: Stalin, Mao, and Pol Pot.
How does that differ from sensible "moral" killing with a "moral compass"?It has often been pointed out all of the things that have occurred under the "guidance" of Christianity, through history, and the question has been asked, "Where has atheism been?" I thought that, perhaps it was time to put things into perspective.
During the Early Middle Ages and Middle Ages, the open espousal of atheistic views was rare in Europe, and atheism was a very uncommon, even dangerous, doctrine to hold. The charge of atheism was regularly used as way of attacking one's political or religious enemies, and the repercussions were severe. However, certain heterodox views were put forward by individual theologists such as Johannes Scotus Eriugena, David of Dinant, Amalric of Bena and William of Ockham, and by groups like the Brethren of the Free Spirit, and several writers mention that there were “not a few” (in the words of John Calvin) who denied the existence of God.
For most of the Middle Ages, religion was so universally dominant that it was not even believed possible that someone could deny the existence of God. Heterodox views were equally rare in the medieval Islamic world, although the 9th Century scholar Ibn al-Rawandi did go so far as to criticize the notion of religious prophecy (including even that of Mohammed), and maintained that religious dogmas were not acceptable to reason and must be rejected.
The European Renaissance of the 15th to 17th Centuries did much to expand the scope of freethought and skeptical inquiry, although criticisms of the religious establishment (such as those of Niccolò Machiavelli, Leonardo da Vinci, Bonaventure des Périers and François Rabelais) usually did not amount to actual atheism. As the scientific discoveries of Copernicus and Galileo became increasingly accepted, man's long-assumed privileged place in the universe appeared less and less justifiable. Progressive thinkers like Giordano Bruno, Lucilio Vanini and Galileo Galilei, bravely battling against the odds, were all savagely persecuted by the powerful Catholic Church of their time. Among those executed (often after torture) for the crime of atheism were Étienne Dolet in 1546, Giordano Bruno in 1600, Lucilio Vanini in 1619, Kazimierz Lyszczynskiin 1689 and Jean-François de la Barre as late as 1766.
With the religious infighting during the Protestant Reformation in the 16th Century, dissent of all kinds flourished, and some sects (such as the Anabaptists, Unitarians and Deists) developed much more humanist and less traditionally religious variants. Criticism of Christianity became increasingly frequent in the 17th and 18th Centuries, led by independent thinkers such as Thomas Hobbes, Baruch Spinoza and David Hume. The number of outspoken refutations to atheism during this period attests to the increasing prevalence of atheist positions, with some of the strongest anti-atheist apologists even attempting to deny the very existence of the movement they sought to crush. The British Blasphemy Act of 1677 specifically mentioned atheism and prescribed the death sentence for it.
So, when anyone questions why Atheists were not a stronger influence on history, the answer is very sim[ple: because that benevolent, loving religion Christianity saw to it through threats of imprisonment, loss of property, and even death that no one would ever even admit that they were an atheist.
So, whenever someone waxes poetic about all of the glorious things that Christianity has done for society through history, just remember that it has done so while also being the most repressive, oppressive, violent, and intolerant influences in history.
Because people know that historically, Atheism leads to a lot of senseless, amoral killing with no moral compass.
Off the top of my head: Stalin, Mao, and Pol Pot.
First of all, that has absolutely nothing to do with my OP. Did you even read it, or did you just read the thread Title, and spout off a canned, prepared response? Second, You seem to be confused about the difference between theological atheism, and state mandated atheism. The examples you cite are perfect examples of what an enlightened atheist never wants to see happen. State atheism is just as bad as Theocracy.It has often been pointed out all of the things that have occurred under the "guidance" of Christianity, through history, and the question has been asked, "Where has atheism been?" I thought that, perhaps it was time to put things into perspective.
During the Early Middle Ages and Middle Ages, the open espousal of atheistic views was rare in Europe, and atheism was a very uncommon, even dangerous, doctrine to hold. The charge of atheism was regularly used as way of attacking one's political or religious enemies, and the repercussions were severe. However, certain heterodox views were put forward by individual theologists such as Johannes Scotus Eriugena, David of Dinant, Amalric of Bena and William of Ockham, and by groups like the Brethren of the Free Spirit, and several writers mention that there were “not a few” (in the words of John Calvin) who denied the existence of God.
For most of the Middle Ages, religion was so universally dominant that it was not even believed possible that someone could deny the existence of God. Heterodox views were equally rare in the medieval Islamic world, although the 9th Century scholar Ibn al-Rawandi did go so far as to criticize the notion of religious prophecy (including even that of Mohammed), and maintained that religious dogmas were not acceptable to reason and must be rejected.
The European Renaissance of the 15th to 17th Centuries did much to expand the scope of freethought and skeptical inquiry, although criticisms of the religious establishment (such as those of Niccolò Machiavelli, Leonardo da Vinci, Bonaventure des Périers and François Rabelais) usually did not amount to actual atheism. As the scientific discoveries of Copernicus and Galileo became increasingly accepted, man's long-assumed privileged place in the universe appeared less and less justifiable. Progressive thinkers like Giordano Bruno, Lucilio Vanini and Galileo Galilei, bravely battling against the odds, were all savagely persecuted by the powerful Catholic Church of their time. Among those executed (often after torture) for the crime of atheism were Étienne Dolet in 1546, Giordano Bruno in 1600, Lucilio Vanini in 1619, Kazimierz Lyszczynskiin 1689 and Jean-François de la Barre as late as 1766.
With the religious infighting during the Protestant Reformation in the 16th Century, dissent of all kinds flourished, and some sects (such as the Anabaptists, Unitarians and Deists) developed much more humanist and less traditionally religious variants. Criticism of Christianity became increasingly frequent in the 17th and 18th Centuries, led by independent thinkers such as Thomas Hobbes, Baruch Spinoza and David Hume. The number of outspoken refutations to atheism during this period attests to the increasing prevalence of atheist positions, with some of the strongest anti-atheist apologists even attempting to deny the very existence of the movement they sought to crush. The British Blasphemy Act of 1677 specifically mentioned atheism and prescribed the death sentence for it.
So, when anyone questions why Atheists were not a stronger influence on history, the answer is very sim[ple: because that benevolent, loving religion Christianity saw to it through threats of imprisonment, loss of property, and even death that no one would ever even admit that they were an atheist.
So, whenever someone waxes poetic about all of the glorious things that Christianity has done for society through history, just remember that it has done so while also being the most repressive, oppressive, violent, and intolerant influences in history.
Because people know that historically, Atheism leads to a lot of senseless, amoral killing with no moral compass.
Off the top of my head: Stalin, Mao, and Pol Pot.
First of all, that has absolutely nothing to do with my OP. Did you even read it, or did you just read the thread Title, and spout off a canned, prepared response? Second, You seem to be confused about the difference between theological atheism, and state mandated atheism. The examples you cite are perfect examples of what an enlightened atheist never wants to see happen. State atheism is just as bad as Theocracy.It has often been pointed out all of the things that have occurred under the "guidance" of Christianity, through history, and the question has been asked, "Where has atheism been?" I thought that, perhaps it was time to put things into perspective.
During the Early Middle Ages and Middle Ages, the open espousal of atheistic views was rare in Europe, and atheism was a very uncommon, even dangerous, doctrine to hold. The charge of atheism was regularly used as way of attacking one's political or religious enemies, and the repercussions were severe. However, certain heterodox views were put forward by individual theologists such as Johannes Scotus Eriugena, David of Dinant, Amalric of Bena and William of Ockham, and by groups like the Brethren of the Free Spirit, and several writers mention that there were “not a few” (in the words of John Calvin) who denied the existence of God.
For most of the Middle Ages, religion was so universally dominant that it was not even believed possible that someone could deny the existence of God. Heterodox views were equally rare in the medieval Islamic world, although the 9th Century scholar Ibn al-Rawandi did go so far as to criticize the notion of religious prophecy (including even that of Mohammed), and maintained that religious dogmas were not acceptable to reason and must be rejected.
The European Renaissance of the 15th to 17th Centuries did much to expand the scope of freethought and skeptical inquiry, although criticisms of the religious establishment (such as those of Niccolò Machiavelli, Leonardo da Vinci, Bonaventure des Périers and François Rabelais) usually did not amount to actual atheism. As the scientific discoveries of Copernicus and Galileo became increasingly accepted, man's long-assumed privileged place in the universe appeared less and less justifiable. Progressive thinkers like Giordano Bruno, Lucilio Vanini and Galileo Galilei, bravely battling against the odds, were all savagely persecuted by the powerful Catholic Church of their time. Among those executed (often after torture) for the crime of atheism were Étienne Dolet in 1546, Giordano Bruno in 1600, Lucilio Vanini in 1619, Kazimierz Lyszczynskiin 1689 and Jean-François de la Barre as late as 1766.
With the religious infighting during the Protestant Reformation in the 16th Century, dissent of all kinds flourished, and some sects (such as the Anabaptists, Unitarians and Deists) developed much more humanist and less traditionally religious variants. Criticism of Christianity became increasingly frequent in the 17th and 18th Centuries, led by independent thinkers such as Thomas Hobbes, Baruch Spinoza and David Hume. The number of outspoken refutations to atheism during this period attests to the increasing prevalence of atheist positions, with some of the strongest anti-atheist apologists even attempting to deny the very existence of the movement they sought to crush. The British Blasphemy Act of 1677 specifically mentioned atheism and prescribed the death sentence for it.
So, when anyone questions why Atheists were not a stronger influence on history, the answer is very sim[ple: because that benevolent, loving religion Christianity saw to it through threats of imprisonment, loss of property, and even death that no one would ever even admit that they were an atheist.
So, whenever someone waxes poetic about all of the glorious things that Christianity has done for society through history, just remember that it has done so while also being the most repressive, oppressive, violent, and intolerant influences in history.
Because people know that historically, Atheism leads to a lot of senseless, amoral killing with no moral compass.
Off the top of my head: Stalin, Mao, and Pol Pot.
Not really. In fact; not at all. That's just the way religious people try to assuage the guilt/responsibility that's lies at the feet of their faith. The reality is that the body count associated with the aforementioned cherry picked examples have more to do with capability than belief. People are now far more technologically advanced than in the days of say... the inquisition. Had they had the modern technology/capabilities the numbers would be just as high. The same thirst for power, and control was the driving force for all of them. Only the population densities, and technology changed.How does that differ from sensible "moral" killing with a "moral compass"?It has often been pointed out all of the things that have occurred under the "guidance" of Christianity, through history, and the question has been asked, "Where has atheism been?" I thought that, perhaps it was time to put things into perspective.
During the Early Middle Ages and Middle Ages, the open espousal of atheistic views was rare in Europe, and atheism was a very uncommon, even dangerous, doctrine to hold. The charge of atheism was regularly used as way of attacking one's political or religious enemies, and the repercussions were severe. However, certain heterodox views were put forward by individual theologists such as Johannes Scotus Eriugena, David of Dinant, Amalric of Bena and William of Ockham, and by groups like the Brethren of the Free Spirit, and several writers mention that there were “not a few” (in the words of John Calvin) who denied the existence of God.
For most of the Middle Ages, religion was so universally dominant that it was not even believed possible that someone could deny the existence of God. Heterodox views were equally rare in the medieval Islamic world, although the 9th Century scholar Ibn al-Rawandi did go so far as to criticize the notion of religious prophecy (including even that of Mohammed), and maintained that religious dogmas were not acceptable to reason and must be rejected.
The European Renaissance of the 15th to 17th Centuries did much to expand the scope of freethought and skeptical inquiry, although criticisms of the religious establishment (such as those of Niccolò Machiavelli, Leonardo da Vinci, Bonaventure des Périers and François Rabelais) usually did not amount to actual atheism. As the scientific discoveries of Copernicus and Galileo became increasingly accepted, man's long-assumed privileged place in the universe appeared less and less justifiable. Progressive thinkers like Giordano Bruno, Lucilio Vanini and Galileo Galilei, bravely battling against the odds, were all savagely persecuted by the powerful Catholic Church of their time. Among those executed (often after torture) for the crime of atheism were Étienne Dolet in 1546, Giordano Bruno in 1600, Lucilio Vanini in 1619, Kazimierz Lyszczynskiin 1689 and Jean-François de la Barre as late as 1766.
With the religious infighting during the Protestant Reformation in the 16th Century, dissent of all kinds flourished, and some sects (such as the Anabaptists, Unitarians and Deists) developed much more humanist and less traditionally religious variants. Criticism of Christianity became increasingly frequent in the 17th and 18th Centuries, led by independent thinkers such as Thomas Hobbes, Baruch Spinoza and David Hume. The number of outspoken refutations to atheism during this period attests to the increasing prevalence of atheist positions, with some of the strongest anti-atheist apologists even attempting to deny the very existence of the movement they sought to crush. The British Blasphemy Act of 1677 specifically mentioned atheism and prescribed the death sentence for it.
So, when anyone questions why Atheists were not a stronger influence on history, the answer is very sim[ple: because that benevolent, loving religion Christianity saw to it through threats of imprisonment, loss of property, and even death that no one would ever even admit that they were an atheist.
So, whenever someone waxes poetic about all of the glorious things that Christianity has done for society through history, just remember that it has done so while also being the most repressive, oppressive, violent, and intolerant influences in history.
Because people know that historically, Atheism leads to a lot of senseless, amoral killing with no moral compass.
Off the top of my head: Stalin, Mao, and Pol Pot.
For one thing the numbers and the reasons.
Not really. In fact; not at all. That's just the way religious people try to assuage the guilt/responsibility that's lies at the feet of their faith. The reality is that the body count associated with the aforementioned cherry picked examples have more to do with capability than belief. People are now far more technologically advanced than in the days of say... the inquisition. Had they had the modern technology/capabilities the numbers would be just as high. The same thirst for power, and control was the driving force for all of them. Only the population densities, and technology changed.How does that differ from sensible "moral" killing with a "moral compass"?It has often been pointed out all of the things that have occurred under the "guidance" of Christianity, through history, and the question has been asked, "Where has atheism been?" I thought that, perhaps it was time to put things into perspective.
During the Early Middle Ages and Middle Ages, the open espousal of atheistic views was rare in Europe, and atheism was a very uncommon, even dangerous, doctrine to hold. The charge of atheism was regularly used as way of attacking one's political or religious enemies, and the repercussions were severe. However, certain heterodox views were put forward by individual theologists such as Johannes Scotus Eriugena, David of Dinant, Amalric of Bena and William of Ockham, and by groups like the Brethren of the Free Spirit, and several writers mention that there were “not a few” (in the words of John Calvin) who denied the existence of God.
For most of the Middle Ages, religion was so universally dominant that it was not even believed possible that someone could deny the existence of God. Heterodox views were equally rare in the medieval Islamic world, although the 9th Century scholar Ibn al-Rawandi did go so far as to criticize the notion of religious prophecy (including even that of Mohammed), and maintained that religious dogmas were not acceptable to reason and must be rejected.
The European Renaissance of the 15th to 17th Centuries did much to expand the scope of freethought and skeptical inquiry, although criticisms of the religious establishment (such as those of Niccolò Machiavelli, Leonardo da Vinci, Bonaventure des Périers and François Rabelais) usually did not amount to actual atheism. As the scientific discoveries of Copernicus and Galileo became increasingly accepted, man's long-assumed privileged place in the universe appeared less and less justifiable. Progressive thinkers like Giordano Bruno, Lucilio Vanini and Galileo Galilei, bravely battling against the odds, were all savagely persecuted by the powerful Catholic Church of their time. Among those executed (often after torture) for the crime of atheism were Étienne Dolet in 1546, Giordano Bruno in 1600, Lucilio Vanini in 1619, Kazimierz Lyszczynskiin 1689 and Jean-François de la Barre as late as 1766.
With the religious infighting during the Protestant Reformation in the 16th Century, dissent of all kinds flourished, and some sects (such as the Anabaptists, Unitarians and Deists) developed much more humanist and less traditionally religious variants. Criticism of Christianity became increasingly frequent in the 17th and 18th Centuries, led by independent thinkers such as Thomas Hobbes, Baruch Spinoza and David Hume. The number of outspoken refutations to atheism during this period attests to the increasing prevalence of atheist positions, with some of the strongest anti-atheist apologists even attempting to deny the very existence of the movement they sought to crush. The British Blasphemy Act of 1677 specifically mentioned atheism and prescribed the death sentence for it.
So, when anyone questions why Atheists were not a stronger influence on history, the answer is very sim[ple: because that benevolent, loving religion Christianity saw to it through threats of imprisonment, loss of property, and even death that no one would ever even admit that they were an atheist.
So, whenever someone waxes poetic about all of the glorious things that Christianity has done for society through history, just remember that it has done so while also being the most repressive, oppressive, violent, and intolerant influences in history.
Because people know that historically, Atheism leads to a lot of senseless, amoral killing with no moral compass.
Off the top of my head: Stalin, Mao, and Pol Pot.
For one thing the numbers and the reasons.
The numbers are higher because of population density, and technology. The reason is the exact same. Power.How does that differ from sensible "moral" killing with a "moral compass"?It has often been pointed out all of the things that have occurred under the "guidance" of Christianity, through history, and the question has been asked, "Where has atheism been?" I thought that, perhaps it was time to put things into perspective.
During the Early Middle Ages and Middle Ages, the open espousal of atheistic views was rare in Europe, and atheism was a very uncommon, even dangerous, doctrine to hold. The charge of atheism was regularly used as way of attacking one's political or religious enemies, and the repercussions were severe. However, certain heterodox views were put forward by individual theologists such as Johannes Scotus Eriugena, David of Dinant, Amalric of Bena and William of Ockham, and by groups like the Brethren of the Free Spirit, and several writers mention that there were “not a few” (in the words of John Calvin) who denied the existence of God.
For most of the Middle Ages, religion was so universally dominant that it was not even believed possible that someone could deny the existence of God. Heterodox views were equally rare in the medieval Islamic world, although the 9th Century scholar Ibn al-Rawandi did go so far as to criticize the notion of religious prophecy (including even that of Mohammed), and maintained that religious dogmas were not acceptable to reason and must be rejected.
The European Renaissance of the 15th to 17th Centuries did much to expand the scope of freethought and skeptical inquiry, although criticisms of the religious establishment (such as those of Niccolò Machiavelli, Leonardo da Vinci, Bonaventure des Périers and François Rabelais) usually did not amount to actual atheism. As the scientific discoveries of Copernicus and Galileo became increasingly accepted, man's long-assumed privileged place in the universe appeared less and less justifiable. Progressive thinkers like Giordano Bruno, Lucilio Vanini and Galileo Galilei, bravely battling against the odds, were all savagely persecuted by the powerful Catholic Church of their time. Among those executed (often after torture) for the crime of atheism were Étienne Dolet in 1546, Giordano Bruno in 1600, Lucilio Vanini in 1619, Kazimierz Lyszczynskiin 1689 and Jean-François de la Barre as late as 1766.
With the religious infighting during the Protestant Reformation in the 16th Century, dissent of all kinds flourished, and some sects (such as the Anabaptists, Unitarians and Deists) developed much more humanist and less traditionally religious variants. Criticism of Christianity became increasingly frequent in the 17th and 18th Centuries, led by independent thinkers such as Thomas Hobbes, Baruch Spinoza and David Hume. The number of outspoken refutations to atheism during this period attests to the increasing prevalence of atheist positions, with some of the strongest anti-atheist apologists even attempting to deny the very existence of the movement they sought to crush. The British Blasphemy Act of 1677 specifically mentioned atheism and prescribed the death sentence for it.
So, when anyone questions why Atheists were not a stronger influence on history, the answer is very sim[ple: because that benevolent, loving religion Christianity saw to it through threats of imprisonment, loss of property, and even death that no one would ever even admit that they were an atheist.
So, whenever someone waxes poetic about all of the glorious things that Christianity has done for society through history, just remember that it has done so while also being the most repressive, oppressive, violent, and intolerant influences in history.
Because people know that historically, Atheism leads to a lot of senseless, amoral killing with no moral compass.
Off the top of my head: Stalin, Mao, and Pol Pot.
For one thing the numbers and the reasons.
Your excused. You may leave whenever you like. The facts however are here to stay.Not really. In fact; not at all. That's just the way religious people try to assuage the guilt/responsibility that's lies at the feet of their faith. The reality is that the body count associated with the aforementioned cherry picked examples have more to do with capability than belief. People are now far more technologically advanced than in the days of say... the inquisition. Had they had the modern technology/capabilities the numbers would be just as high. The same thirst for power, and control was the driving force for all of them. Only the population densities, and technology changed.How does that differ from sensible "moral" killing with a "moral compass"?It has often been pointed out all of the things that have occurred under the "guidance" of Christianity, through history, and the question has been asked, "Where has atheism been?" I thought that, perhaps it was time to put things into perspective.
During the Early Middle Ages and Middle Ages, the open espousal of atheistic views was rare in Europe, and atheism was a very uncommon, even dangerous, doctrine to hold. The charge of atheism was regularly used as way of attacking one's political or religious enemies, and the repercussions were severe. However, certain heterodox views were put forward by individual theologists such as Johannes Scotus Eriugena, David of Dinant, Amalric of Bena and William of Ockham, and by groups like the Brethren of the Free Spirit, and several writers mention that there were “not a few” (in the words of John Calvin) who denied the existence of God.
For most of the Middle Ages, religion was so universally dominant that it was not even believed possible that someone could deny the existence of God. Heterodox views were equally rare in the medieval Islamic world, although the 9th Century scholar Ibn al-Rawandi did go so far as to criticize the notion of religious prophecy (including even that of Mohammed), and maintained that religious dogmas were not acceptable to reason and must be rejected.
The European Renaissance of the 15th to 17th Centuries did much to expand the scope of freethought and skeptical inquiry, although criticisms of the religious establishment (such as those of Niccolò Machiavelli, Leonardo da Vinci, Bonaventure des Périers and François Rabelais) usually did not amount to actual atheism. As the scientific discoveries of Copernicus and Galileo became increasingly accepted, man's long-assumed privileged place in the universe appeared less and less justifiable. Progressive thinkers like Giordano Bruno, Lucilio Vanini and Galileo Galilei, bravely battling against the odds, were all savagely persecuted by the powerful Catholic Church of their time. Among those executed (often after torture) for the crime of atheism were Étienne Dolet in 1546, Giordano Bruno in 1600, Lucilio Vanini in 1619, Kazimierz Lyszczynskiin 1689 and Jean-François de la Barre as late as 1766.
With the religious infighting during the Protestant Reformation in the 16th Century, dissent of all kinds flourished, and some sects (such as the Anabaptists, Unitarians and Deists) developed much more humanist and less traditionally religious variants. Criticism of Christianity became increasingly frequent in the 17th and 18th Centuries, led by independent thinkers such as Thomas Hobbes, Baruch Spinoza and David Hume. The number of outspoken refutations to atheism during this period attests to the increasing prevalence of atheist positions, with some of the strongest anti-atheist apologists even attempting to deny the very existence of the movement they sought to crush. The British Blasphemy Act of 1677 specifically mentioned atheism and prescribed the death sentence for it.
So, when anyone questions why Atheists were not a stronger influence on history, the answer is very sim[ple: because that benevolent, loving religion Christianity saw to it through threats of imprisonment, loss of property, and even death that no one would ever even admit that they were an atheist.
So, whenever someone waxes poetic about all of the glorious things that Christianity has done for society through history, just remember that it has done so while also being the most repressive, oppressive, violent, and intolerant influences in history.
Because people know that historically, Atheism leads to a lot of senseless, amoral killing with no moral compass.
Off the top of my head: Stalin, Mao, and Pol Pot.
For one thing the numbers and the reasons.
^Weak attempt at denying history. Dismissed.
The numbers are higher because of population density, and technology. The reason is the exact same. Power.How does that differ from sensible "moral" killing with a "moral compass"?It has often been pointed out all of the things that have occurred under the "guidance" of Christianity, through history, and the question has been asked, "Where has atheism been?" I thought that, perhaps it was time to put things into perspective.
During the Early Middle Ages and Middle Ages, the open espousal of atheistic views was rare in Europe, and atheism was a very uncommon, even dangerous, doctrine to hold. The charge of atheism was regularly used as way of attacking one's political or religious enemies, and the repercussions were severe. However, certain heterodox views were put forward by individual theologists such as Johannes Scotus Eriugena, David of Dinant, Amalric of Bena and William of Ockham, and by groups like the Brethren of the Free Spirit, and several writers mention that there were “not a few” (in the words of John Calvin) who denied the existence of God.
For most of the Middle Ages, religion was so universally dominant that it was not even believed possible that someone could deny the existence of God. Heterodox views were equally rare in the medieval Islamic world, although the 9th Century scholar Ibn al-Rawandi did go so far as to criticize the notion of religious prophecy (including even that of Mohammed), and maintained that religious dogmas were not acceptable to reason and must be rejected.
The European Renaissance of the 15th to 17th Centuries did much to expand the scope of freethought and skeptical inquiry, although criticisms of the religious establishment (such as those of Niccolò Machiavelli, Leonardo da Vinci, Bonaventure des Périers and François Rabelais) usually did not amount to actual atheism. As the scientific discoveries of Copernicus and Galileo became increasingly accepted, man's long-assumed privileged place in the universe appeared less and less justifiable. Progressive thinkers like Giordano Bruno, Lucilio Vanini and Galileo Galilei, bravely battling against the odds, were all savagely persecuted by the powerful Catholic Church of their time. Among those executed (often after torture) for the crime of atheism were Étienne Dolet in 1546, Giordano Bruno in 1600, Lucilio Vanini in 1619, Kazimierz Lyszczynskiin 1689 and Jean-François de la Barre as late as 1766.
With the religious infighting during the Protestant Reformation in the 16th Century, dissent of all kinds flourished, and some sects (such as the Anabaptists, Unitarians and Deists) developed much more humanist and less traditionally religious variants. Criticism of Christianity became increasingly frequent in the 17th and 18th Centuries, led by independent thinkers such as Thomas Hobbes, Baruch Spinoza and David Hume. The number of outspoken refutations to atheism during this period attests to the increasing prevalence of atheist positions, with some of the strongest anti-atheist apologists even attempting to deny the very existence of the movement they sought to crush. The British Blasphemy Act of 1677 specifically mentioned atheism and prescribed the death sentence for it.
So, when anyone questions why Atheists were not a stronger influence on history, the answer is very sim[ple: because that benevolent, loving religion Christianity saw to it through threats of imprisonment, loss of property, and even death that no one would ever even admit that they were an atheist.
So, whenever someone waxes poetic about all of the glorious things that Christianity has done for society through history, just remember that it has done so while also being the most repressive, oppressive, violent, and intolerant influences in history.
Because people know that historically, Atheism leads to a lot of senseless, amoral killing with no moral compass.
Off the top of my head: Stalin, Mao, and Pol Pot.
For one thing the numbers and the reasons.
You miss the point again dear boy. Those atrocities which we were previously referring to were committed for one thing, and one thing alone. Power. Not Christ. Not atheism. Not Mohammed. Power. If you can place a value on mass murder belief in a faith; I'll leave you to it. As me? I see it for what it is. Murder for power. Nothing more, nothing less...The numbers are higher because of population density, and technology. The reason is the exact same. Power.How does that differ from sensible "moral" killing with a "moral compass"?It has often been pointed out all of the things that have occurred under the "guidance" of Christianity, through history, and the question has been asked, "Where has atheism been?" I thought that, perhaps it was time to put things into perspective.
During the Early Middle Ages and Middle Ages, the open espousal of atheistic views was rare in Europe, and atheism was a very uncommon, even dangerous, doctrine to hold. The charge of atheism was regularly used as way of attacking one's political or religious enemies, and the repercussions were severe. However, certain heterodox views were put forward by individual theologists such as Johannes Scotus Eriugena, David of Dinant, Amalric of Bena and William of Ockham, and by groups like the Brethren of the Free Spirit, and several writers mention that there were “not a few” (in the words of John Calvin) who denied the existence of God.
For most of the Middle Ages, religion was so universally dominant that it was not even believed possible that someone could deny the existence of God. Heterodox views were equally rare in the medieval Islamic world, although the 9th Century scholar Ibn al-Rawandi did go so far as to criticize the notion of religious prophecy (including even that of Mohammed), and maintained that religious dogmas were not acceptable to reason and must be rejected.
The European Renaissance of the 15th to 17th Centuries did much to expand the scope of freethought and skeptical inquiry, although criticisms of the religious establishment (such as those of Niccolò Machiavelli, Leonardo da Vinci, Bonaventure des Périers and François Rabelais) usually did not amount to actual atheism. As the scientific discoveries of Copernicus and Galileo became increasingly accepted, man's long-assumed privileged place in the universe appeared less and less justifiable. Progressive thinkers like Giordano Bruno, Lucilio Vanini and Galileo Galilei, bravely battling against the odds, were all savagely persecuted by the powerful Catholic Church of their time. Among those executed (often after torture) for the crime of atheism were Étienne Dolet in 1546, Giordano Bruno in 1600, Lucilio Vanini in 1619, Kazimierz Lyszczynskiin 1689 and Jean-François de la Barre as late as 1766.
With the religious infighting during the Protestant Reformation in the 16th Century, dissent of all kinds flourished, and some sects (such as the Anabaptists, Unitarians and Deists) developed much more humanist and less traditionally religious variants. Criticism of Christianity became increasingly frequent in the 17th and 18th Centuries, led by independent thinkers such as Thomas Hobbes, Baruch Spinoza and David Hume. The number of outspoken refutations to atheism during this period attests to the increasing prevalence of atheist positions, with some of the strongest anti-atheist apologists even attempting to deny the very existence of the movement they sought to crush. The British Blasphemy Act of 1677 specifically mentioned atheism and prescribed the death sentence for it.
So, when anyone questions why Atheists were not a stronger influence on history, the answer is very sim[ple: because that benevolent, loving religion Christianity saw to it through threats of imprisonment, loss of property, and even death that no one would ever even admit that they were an atheist.
So, whenever someone waxes poetic about all of the glorious things that Christianity has done for society through history, just remember that it has done so while also being the most repressive, oppressive, violent, and intolerant influences in history.
Because people know that historically, Atheism leads to a lot of senseless, amoral killing with no moral compass.
Off the top of my head: Stalin, Mao, and Pol Pot.
For one thing the numbers and the reasons.
So Atheists are no better than deluded Christians, correct? What makes Atheism better than Christianity or, doh! Islam?
But the cause is not. The cause for those deaths is not Atheism, but Despotic Dictatorships. Over 2,000 people disappeared, and another 31,000 were tortured under the dictatorship of Pinochet, and he was a devout Roman Catholic. Should we then suggest that Catholicism, or Christianity is responsible for all of those deaths, or do we properly hold responsible the despotic dictatorship under which those deaths occurred?First of all, that has absolutely nothing to do with my OP. Did you even read it, or did you just read the thread Title, and spout off a canned, prepared response? Second, You seem to be confused about the difference between theological atheism, and state mandated atheism. The examples you cite are perfect examples of what an enlightened atheist never wants to see happen. State atheism is just as bad as Theocracy.It has often been pointed out all of the things that have occurred under the "guidance" of Christianity, through history, and the question has been asked, "Where has atheism been?" I thought that, perhaps it was time to put things into perspective.
During the Early Middle Ages and Middle Ages, the open espousal of atheistic views was rare in Europe, and atheism was a very uncommon, even dangerous, doctrine to hold. The charge of atheism was regularly used as way of attacking one's political or religious enemies, and the repercussions were severe. However, certain heterodox views were put forward by individual theologists such as Johannes Scotus Eriugena, David of Dinant, Amalric of Bena and William of Ockham, and by groups like the Brethren of the Free Spirit, and several writers mention that there were “not a few” (in the words of John Calvin) who denied the existence of God.
For most of the Middle Ages, religion was so universally dominant that it was not even believed possible that someone could deny the existence of God. Heterodox views were equally rare in the medieval Islamic world, although the 9th Century scholar Ibn al-Rawandi did go so far as to criticize the notion of religious prophecy (including even that of Mohammed), and maintained that religious dogmas were not acceptable to reason and must be rejected.
The European Renaissance of the 15th to 17th Centuries did much to expand the scope of freethought and skeptical inquiry, although criticisms of the religious establishment (such as those of Niccolò Machiavelli, Leonardo da Vinci, Bonaventure des Périers and François Rabelais) usually did not amount to actual atheism. As the scientific discoveries of Copernicus and Galileo became increasingly accepted, man's long-assumed privileged place in the universe appeared less and less justifiable. Progressive thinkers like Giordano Bruno, Lucilio Vanini and Galileo Galilei, bravely battling against the odds, were all savagely persecuted by the powerful Catholic Church of their time. Among those executed (often after torture) for the crime of atheism were Étienne Dolet in 1546, Giordano Bruno in 1600, Lucilio Vanini in 1619, Kazimierz Lyszczynskiin 1689 and Jean-François de la Barre as late as 1766.
With the religious infighting during the Protestant Reformation in the 16th Century, dissent of all kinds flourished, and some sects (such as the Anabaptists, Unitarians and Deists) developed much more humanist and less traditionally religious variants. Criticism of Christianity became increasingly frequent in the 17th and 18th Centuries, led by independent thinkers such as Thomas Hobbes, Baruch Spinoza and David Hume. The number of outspoken refutations to atheism during this period attests to the increasing prevalence of atheist positions, with some of the strongest anti-atheist apologists even attempting to deny the very existence of the movement they sought to crush. The British Blasphemy Act of 1677 specifically mentioned atheism and prescribed the death sentence for it.
So, when anyone questions why Atheists were not a stronger influence on history, the answer is very sim[ple: because that benevolent, loving religion Christianity saw to it through threats of imprisonment, loss of property, and even death that no one would ever even admit that they were an atheist.
So, whenever someone waxes poetic about all of the glorious things that Christianity has done for society through history, just remember that it has done so while also being the most repressive, oppressive, violent, and intolerant influences in history.
Because people know that historically, Atheism leads to a lot of senseless, amoral killing with no moral compass.
Off the top of my head: Stalin, Mao, and Pol Pot.
What does it matter if the people believe it or the state sponsors it?
The end result is the same.
But the cause is not. The cause for those deaths is not Atheism, but Despotic Dictatorships. Over 2,000 people disappeared, and another 31,000 were tortured under the dictatorship of Pinochet, and he was a devout Roman Catholic. should we then suggest that Catholicism, or Christianity is responsible for all of those deaths, or do we properly hold responsible the despotic dictatorship under which those deaths occurred?First of all, that has absolutely nothing to do with my OP. Did you even read it, or did you just read the thread Title, and spout off a canned, prepared response? Second, You seem to be confused about the difference between theological atheism, and state mandated atheism. The examples you cite are perfect examples of what an enlightened atheist never wants to see happen. State atheism is just as bad as Theocracy.It has often been pointed out all of the things that have occurred under the "guidance" of Christianity, through history, and the question has been asked, "Where has atheism been?" I thought that, perhaps it was time to put things into perspective.
During the Early Middle Ages and Middle Ages, the open espousal of atheistic views was rare in Europe, and atheism was a very uncommon, even dangerous, doctrine to hold. The charge of atheism was regularly used as way of attacking one's political or religious enemies, and the repercussions were severe. However, certain heterodox views were put forward by individual theologists such as Johannes Scotus Eriugena, David of Dinant, Amalric of Bena and William of Ockham, and by groups like the Brethren of the Free Spirit, and several writers mention that there were “not a few” (in the words of John Calvin) who denied the existence of God.
For most of the Middle Ages, religion was so universally dominant that it was not even believed possible that someone could deny the existence of God. Heterodox views were equally rare in the medieval Islamic world, although the 9th Century scholar Ibn al-Rawandi did go so far as to criticize the notion of religious prophecy (including even that of Mohammed), and maintained that religious dogmas were not acceptable to reason and must be rejected.
The European Renaissance of the 15th to 17th Centuries did much to expand the scope of freethought and skeptical inquiry, although criticisms of the religious establishment (such as those of Niccolò Machiavelli, Leonardo da Vinci, Bonaventure des Périers and François Rabelais) usually did not amount to actual atheism. As the scientific discoveries of Copernicus and Galileo became increasingly accepted, man's long-assumed privileged place in the universe appeared less and less justifiable. Progressive thinkers like Giordano Bruno, Lucilio Vanini and Galileo Galilei, bravely battling against the odds, were all savagely persecuted by the powerful Catholic Church of their time. Among those executed (often after torture) for the crime of atheism were Étienne Dolet in 1546, Giordano Bruno in 1600, Lucilio Vanini in 1619, Kazimierz Lyszczynskiin 1689 and Jean-François de la Barre as late as 1766.
With the religious infighting during the Protestant Reformation in the 16th Century, dissent of all kinds flourished, and some sects (such as the Anabaptists, Unitarians and Deists) developed much more humanist and less traditionally religious variants. Criticism of Christianity became increasingly frequent in the 17th and 18th Centuries, led by independent thinkers such as Thomas Hobbes, Baruch Spinoza and David Hume. The number of outspoken refutations to atheism during this period attests to the increasing prevalence of atheist positions, with some of the strongest anti-atheist apologists even attempting to deny the very existence of the movement they sought to crush. The British Blasphemy Act of 1677 specifically mentioned atheism and prescribed the death sentence for it.
So, when anyone questions why Atheists were not a stronger influence on history, the answer is very sim[ple: because that benevolent, loving religion Christianity saw to it through threats of imprisonment, loss of property, and even death that no one would ever even admit that they were an atheist.
So, whenever someone waxes poetic about all of the glorious things that Christianity has done for society through history, just remember that it has done so while also being the most repressive, oppressive, violent, and intolerant influences in history.
Because people know that historically, Atheism leads to a lot of senseless, amoral killing with no moral compass.
Off the top of my head: Stalin, Mao, and Pol Pot.
What does it matter if the people believe it or the state sponsors it?
The end result is the same.
So, you believe Christianity is responsible for the deaths in Chile, under Pinochet?But the cause is not. The cause for those deaths is not Atheism, but Despotic Dictatorships. Over 2,000 people disappeared, and another 31,000 were tortured under the dictatorship of Pinochet, and he was a devout Roman Catholic. should we then suggest that Catholicism, or Christianity is responsible for all of those deaths, or do we properly hold responsible the despotic dictatorship under which those deaths occurred?First of all, that has absolutely nothing to do with my OP. Did you even read it, or did you just read the thread Title, and spout off a canned, prepared response? Second, You seem to be confused about the difference between theological atheism, and state mandated atheism. The examples you cite are perfect examples of what an enlightened atheist never wants to see happen. State atheism is just as bad as Theocracy.It has often been pointed out all of the things that have occurred under the "guidance" of Christianity, through history, and the question has been asked, "Where has atheism been?" I thought that, perhaps it was time to put things into perspective.
During the Early Middle Ages and Middle Ages, the open espousal of atheistic views was rare in Europe, and atheism was a very uncommon, even dangerous, doctrine to hold. The charge of atheism was regularly used as way of attacking one's political or religious enemies, and the repercussions were severe. However, certain heterodox views were put forward by individual theologists such as Johannes Scotus Eriugena, David of Dinant, Amalric of Bena and William of Ockham, and by groups like the Brethren of the Free Spirit, and several writers mention that there were “not a few” (in the words of John Calvin) who denied the existence of God.
For most of the Middle Ages, religion was so universally dominant that it was not even believed possible that someone could deny the existence of God. Heterodox views were equally rare in the medieval Islamic world, although the 9th Century scholar Ibn al-Rawandi did go so far as to criticize the notion of religious prophecy (including even that of Mohammed), and maintained that religious dogmas were not acceptable to reason and must be rejected.
The European Renaissance of the 15th to 17th Centuries did much to expand the scope of freethought and skeptical inquiry, although criticisms of the religious establishment (such as those of Niccolò Machiavelli, Leonardo da Vinci, Bonaventure des Périers and François Rabelais) usually did not amount to actual atheism. As the scientific discoveries of Copernicus and Galileo became increasingly accepted, man's long-assumed privileged place in the universe appeared less and less justifiable. Progressive thinkers like Giordano Bruno, Lucilio Vanini and Galileo Galilei, bravely battling against the odds, were all savagely persecuted by the powerful Catholic Church of their time. Among those executed (often after torture) for the crime of atheism were Étienne Dolet in 1546, Giordano Bruno in 1600, Lucilio Vanini in 1619, Kazimierz Lyszczynskiin 1689 and Jean-François de la Barre as late as 1766.
With the religious infighting during the Protestant Reformation in the 16th Century, dissent of all kinds flourished, and some sects (such as the Anabaptists, Unitarians and Deists) developed much more humanist and less traditionally religious variants. Criticism of Christianity became increasingly frequent in the 17th and 18th Centuries, led by independent thinkers such as Thomas Hobbes, Baruch Spinoza and David Hume. The number of outspoken refutations to atheism during this period attests to the increasing prevalence of atheist positions, with some of the strongest anti-atheist apologists even attempting to deny the very existence of the movement they sought to crush. The British Blasphemy Act of 1677 specifically mentioned atheism and prescribed the death sentence for it.
So, when anyone questions why Atheists were not a stronger influence on history, the answer is very sim[ple: because that benevolent, loving religion Christianity saw to it through threats of imprisonment, loss of property, and even death that no one would ever even admit that they were an atheist.
So, whenever someone waxes poetic about all of the glorious things that Christianity has done for society through history, just remember that it has done so while also being the most repressive, oppressive, violent, and intolerant influences in history.
Because people know that historically, Atheism leads to a lot of senseless, amoral killing with no moral compass.
Off the top of my head: Stalin, Mao, and Pol Pot.
What does it matter if the people believe it or the state sponsors it?
The end result is the same.
And under Atheist Despotic Dictatorships:
Mao Ze-Dong (China, 1958-61 and 1966-69, Tibet 1949-50) 49-78,000,000 people murdered
Jozef Stalin (USSR 1932-39 only) 15,000,000 people murdered
Pol Pot (Cambodia, 1975-79) 1,700,000 people murdered
Kim II Sung (North Korea 1948-94) 1.6 million people murdered
Tito (Yugoslavia 1945-1987) 570,000 people murdered
Suharto (Communists 1967-66) 500,000 people murdered
Ante Pavelic (Croatia 1941-45) 359,000 people murdered
Ho Chi Min (Vietnam 1953-56) 200,000 people murdered
Vladimir Ilich Lenin (USSR, 1917-20) 30,000 people murdered
Adolf Hitler (Germany 1939-1945) 12,000,000 people murdered
33k vs all that. ^
Clearly the numbers are just a wee bit higher. Need you wonder
further why Atheism doesn't "catch on"? People don't like that mass murdering stuff.
So, you believe Christianity is responsible for the deaths in Chile, under Pinochet?But the cause is not. The cause for those deaths is not Atheism, but Despotic Dictatorships. Over 2,000 people disappeared, and another 31,000 were tortured under the dictatorship of Pinochet, and he was a devout Roman Catholic. should we then suggest that Catholicism, or Christianity is responsible for all of those deaths, or do we properly hold responsible the despotic dictatorship under which those deaths occurred?First of all, that has absolutely nothing to do with my OP. Did you even read it, or did you just read the thread Title, and spout off a canned, prepared response? Second, You seem to be confused about the difference between theological atheism, and state mandated atheism. The examples you cite are perfect examples of what an enlightened atheist never wants to see happen. State atheism is just as bad as Theocracy.Because people know that historically, Atheism leads to a lot of senseless, amoral killing with no moral compass.
Off the top of my head: Stalin, Mao, and Pol Pot.
What does it matter if the people believe it or the state sponsors it?
The end result is the same.
And under Atheist Despotic Dictatorships:
Mao Ze-Dong (China, 1958-61 and 1966-69, Tibet 1949-50) 49-78,000,000 people murdered
Jozef Stalin (USSR 1932-39 only) 15,000,000 people murdered
Pol Pot (Cambodia, 1975-79) 1,700,000 people murdered
Kim II Sung (North Korea 1948-94) 1.6 million people murdered
Tito (Yugoslavia 1945-1987) 570,000 people murdered
Suharto (Communists 1967-66) 500,000 people murdered
Ante Pavelic (Croatia 1941-45) 359,000 people murdered
Ho Chi Min (Vietnam 1953-56) 200,000 people murdered
Vladimir Ilich Lenin (USSR, 1917-20) 30,000 people murdered
Adolf Hitler (Germany 1939-1945) 12,000,000 people murdered
33k vs all that. ^
Clearly the numbers are just a wee bit higher. Need you wonder
further why Atheism doesn't "catch on"? People don't like that mass murdering stuff.
I believe you are obsessively angry about the wrong thing.So, you believe Christianity is responsible for the deaths in Chile, under Pinochet?But the cause is not. The cause for those deaths is not Atheism, but Despotic Dictatorships. Over 2,000 people disappeared, and another 31,000 were tortured under the dictatorship of Pinochet, and he was a devout Roman Catholic. should we then suggest that Catholicism, or Christianity is responsible for all of those deaths, or do we properly hold responsible the despotic dictatorship under which those deaths occurred?First of all, that has absolutely nothing to do with my OP. Did you even read it, or did you just read the thread Title, and spout off a canned, prepared response? Second, You seem to be confused about the difference between theological atheism, and state mandated atheism. The examples you cite are perfect examples of what an enlightened atheist never wants to see happen. State atheism is just as bad as Theocracy.
What does it matter if the people believe it or the state sponsors it?
The end result is the same.
And under Atheist Despotic Dictatorships:
Mao Ze-Dong (China, 1958-61 and 1966-69, Tibet 1949-50) 49-78,000,000 people murdered
Jozef Stalin (USSR 1932-39 only) 15,000,000 people murdered
Pol Pot (Cambodia, 1975-79) 1,700,000 people murdered
Kim II Sung (North Korea 1948-94) 1.6 million people murdered
Tito (Yugoslavia 1945-1987) 570,000 people murdered
Suharto (Communists 1967-66) 500,000 people murdered
Ante Pavelic (Croatia 1941-45) 359,000 people murdered
Ho Chi Min (Vietnam 1953-56) 200,000 people murdered
Vladimir Ilich Lenin (USSR, 1917-20) 30,000 people murdered
Adolf Hitler (Germany 1939-1945) 12,000,000 people murdered
33k vs all that. ^
Clearly the numbers are just a wee bit higher. Need you wonder
further why Atheism doesn't "catch on"? People don't like that mass murdering stuff.
I believe you're barking up the wrong ankle.
You make the mistake of equating Catholicism with Christianity. One is a pagan faith. The other is based on the word of God.But the cause is not. The cause for those deaths is not Atheism, but Despotic Dictatorships. Over 2,000 people disappeared, and another 31,000 were tortured under the dictatorship of Pinochet, and he was a devout Roman Catholic. Should we then suggest that Catholicism, or Christianity is responsible for all of those deaths, or do we properly hold responsible the despotic dictatorship under which those deaths occurred?First of all, that has absolutely nothing to do with my OP. Did you even read it, or did you just read the thread Title, and spout off a canned, prepared response? Second, You seem to be confused about the difference between theological atheism, and state mandated atheism. The examples you cite are perfect examples of what an enlightened atheist never wants to see happen. State atheism is just as bad as Theocracy.It has often been pointed out all of the things that have occurred under the "guidance" of Christianity, through history, and the question has been asked, "Where has atheism been?" I thought that, perhaps it was time to put things into perspective.
During the Early Middle Ages and Middle Ages, the open espousal of atheistic views was rare in Europe, and atheism was a very uncommon, even dangerous, doctrine to hold. The charge of atheism was regularly used as way of attacking one's political or religious enemies, and the repercussions were severe. However, certain heterodox views were put forward by individual theologists such as Johannes Scotus Eriugena, David of Dinant, Amalric of Bena and William of Ockham, and by groups like the Brethren of the Free Spirit, and several writers mention that there were “not a few” (in the words of John Calvin) who denied the existence of God.
For most of the Middle Ages, religion was so universally dominant that it was not even believed possible that someone could deny the existence of God. Heterodox views were equally rare in the medieval Islamic world, although the 9th Century scholar Ibn al-Rawandi did go so far as to criticize the notion of religious prophecy (including even that of Mohammed), and maintained that religious dogmas were not acceptable to reason and must be rejected.
The European Renaissance of the 15th to 17th Centuries did much to expand the scope of freethought and skeptical inquiry, although criticisms of the religious establishment (such as those of Niccolò Machiavelli, Leonardo da Vinci, Bonaventure des Périers and François Rabelais) usually did not amount to actual atheism. As the scientific discoveries of Copernicus and Galileo became increasingly accepted, man's long-assumed privileged place in the universe appeared less and less justifiable. Progressive thinkers like Giordano Bruno, Lucilio Vanini and Galileo Galilei, bravely battling against the odds, were all savagely persecuted by the powerful Catholic Church of their time. Among those executed (often after torture) for the crime of atheism were Étienne Dolet in 1546, Giordano Bruno in 1600, Lucilio Vanini in 1619, Kazimierz Lyszczynskiin 1689 and Jean-François de la Barre as late as 1766.
With the religious infighting during the Protestant Reformation in the 16th Century, dissent of all kinds flourished, and some sects (such as the Anabaptists, Unitarians and Deists) developed much more humanist and less traditionally religious variants. Criticism of Christianity became increasingly frequent in the 17th and 18th Centuries, led by independent thinkers such as Thomas Hobbes, Baruch Spinoza and David Hume. The number of outspoken refutations to atheism during this period attests to the increasing prevalence of atheist positions, with some of the strongest anti-atheist apologists even attempting to deny the very existence of the movement they sought to crush. The British Blasphemy Act of 1677 specifically mentioned atheism and prescribed the death sentence for it.
So, when anyone questions why Atheists were not a stronger influence on history, the answer is very sim[ple: because that benevolent, loving religion Christianity saw to it through threats of imprisonment, loss of property, and even death that no one would ever even admit that they were an atheist.
So, whenever someone waxes poetic about all of the glorious things that Christianity has done for society through history, just remember that it has done so while also being the most repressive, oppressive, violent, and intolerant influences in history.
Because people know that historically, Atheism leads to a lot of senseless, amoral killing with no moral compass.
Off the top of my head: Stalin, Mao, and Pol Pot.
What does it matter if the people believe it or the state sponsors it?
The end result is the same.
Who you kidding? The founders of, along with many followers of Christianity absolutely love that kind of thing! Thier Old Testament is littered with stories of genocide,after genocide,after genocide. Heroic tales of revered groups of Israelites marching from city, to,city, to city; wiping out every man woman and child.(Except the ones that were kept for sex slaves, of course). In fact the genocides committed by Christianity's heros were much more thorough than those committed in modern times. The difference?But the cause is not. The cause for those deaths is not Atheism, but Despotic Dictatorships. Over 2,000 people disappeared, and another 31,000 were tortured under the dictatorship of Pinochet, and he was a devout Roman Catholic. should we then suggest that Catholicism, or Christianity is responsible for all of those deaths, or do we properly hold responsible the despotic dictatorship under which those deaths occurred?First of all, that has absolutely nothing to do with my OP. Did you even read it, or did you just read the thread Title, and spout off a canned, prepared response? Second, You seem to be confused about the difference between theological atheism, and state mandated atheism. The examples you cite are perfect examples of what an enlightened atheist never wants to see happen. State atheism is just as bad as Theocracy.It has often been pointed out all of the things that have occurred under the "guidance" of Christianity, through history, and the question has been asked, "Where has atheism been?" I thought that, perhaps it was time to put things into perspective.
During the Early Middle Ages and Middle Ages, the open espousal of atheistic views was rare in Europe, and atheism was a very uncommon, even dangerous, doctrine to hold. The charge of atheism was regularly used as way of attacking one's political or religious enemies, and the repercussions were severe. However, certain heterodox views were put forward by individual theologists such as Johannes Scotus Eriugena, David of Dinant, Amalric of Bena and William of Ockham, and by groups like the Brethren of the Free Spirit, and several writers mention that there were “not a few” (in the words of John Calvin) who denied the existence of God.
For most of the Middle Ages, religion was so universally dominant that it was not even believed possible that someone could deny the existence of God. Heterodox views were equally rare in the medieval Islamic world, although the 9th Century scholar Ibn al-Rawandi did go so far as to criticize the notion of religious prophecy (including even that of Mohammed), and maintained that religious dogmas were not acceptable to reason and must be rejected.
The European Renaissance of the 15th to 17th Centuries did much to expand the scope of freethought and skeptical inquiry, although criticisms of the religious establishment (such as those of Niccolò Machiavelli, Leonardo da Vinci, Bonaventure des Périers and François Rabelais) usually did not amount to actual atheism. As the scientific discoveries of Copernicus and Galileo became increasingly accepted, man's long-assumed privileged place in the universe appeared less and less justifiable. Progressive thinkers like Giordano Bruno, Lucilio Vanini and Galileo Galilei, bravely battling against the odds, were all savagely persecuted by the powerful Catholic Church of their time. Among those executed (often after torture) for the crime of atheism were Étienne Dolet in 1546, Giordano Bruno in 1600, Lucilio Vanini in 1619, Kazimierz Lyszczynskiin 1689 and Jean-François de la Barre as late as 1766.
With the religious infighting during the Protestant Reformation in the 16th Century, dissent of all kinds flourished, and some sects (such as the Anabaptists, Unitarians and Deists) developed much more humanist and less traditionally religious variants. Criticism of Christianity became increasingly frequent in the 17th and 18th Centuries, led by independent thinkers such as Thomas Hobbes, Baruch Spinoza and David Hume. The number of outspoken refutations to atheism during this period attests to the increasing prevalence of atheist positions, with some of the strongest anti-atheist apologists even attempting to deny the very existence of the movement they sought to crush. The British Blasphemy Act of 1677 specifically mentioned atheism and prescribed the death sentence for it.
So, when anyone questions why Atheists were not a stronger influence on history, the answer is very sim[ple: because that benevolent, loving religion Christianity saw to it through threats of imprisonment, loss of property, and even death that no one would ever even admit that they were an atheist.
So, whenever someone waxes poetic about all of the glorious things that Christianity has done for society through history, just remember that it has done so while also being the most repressive, oppressive, violent, and intolerant influences in history.
Because people know that historically, Atheism leads to a lot of senseless, amoral killing with no moral compass.
Off the top of my head: Stalin, Mao, and Pol Pot.
What does it matter if the people believe it or the state sponsors it?
The end result is the same.
And under Atheist Despotic Dictatorships:
Mao Ze-Dong (China, 1958-61 and 1966-69, Tibet 1949-50) 49-78,000,000 people murdered
Jozef Stalin (USSR 1932-39 only) 15,000,000 people murdered
Pol Pot (Cambodia, 1975-79) 1,700,000 people murdered
Kim II Sung (North Korea 1948-94) 1.6 million people murdered
Tito (Yugoslavia 1945-1987) 570,000 people murdered
Suharto (Communists 1967-66) 500,000 people murdered
Ante Pavelic (Croatia 1941-45) 359,000 people murdered
Ho Chi Min (Vietnam 1953-56) 200,000 people murdered
Vladimir Ilich Lenin (USSR, 1917-20) 30,000 people murdered
Adolf Hitler (Germany 1939-1945) 12,000,000 people murdered
33k vs all that. ^
Clearly the numbers are just a wee bit higher. Need you wonder
further why Atheism doesn't "catch on"? People don't like that mass murdering stuff.
