Why I Am Not A Christian

[mudwhistle]

Looks like your understanding of Christianity is totally screwed.

You keep mixing up the Old Testament with the new.

Christianity is based on Jesus Christ....not on the writings of Moses, Abraham, and the other patriarchs listed in the Old Testament.

Actually I have a rather accurate understanding of the religion. It looks like the point of what I said just went over your head, so I'll use smaller words and try again.

Christianity is based on Jesus, a Jew, and the Jewish deity. The New Test is different than the Old Test in numerous places, including law and general morality. So explain to me why an omnipotent being would ever require change of laws, morals, or "right and wrong". Oh because you can hand waive and claim "well Jesus changed stuff". Like the legitimacy of owning slaves? Wiping away original sin somehow made basic human equality change? Most people tend to overlook how basic decency completely changed in the New version, or why.

"So explain to me why an omnipotent being would ever require change of laws, morals, or "right and wrong"."


seems like a fair question.

is god an absolutist or a relativist?

are morals absolute or relative?

did god change his mind?

if god changed his mind once....maybe he'll change it again?

if god was wrong about some things...
what else might he be wrong about?

how can an omnipotent being ever be wrong in the first place?

What you claim as being wrong was really just the opening of another chapter.

The coming of the Messiah.

It was foretold in the Old Testament and what it meant to the people of Israel was also foretold.....and they unfortunately rejected him.

Which by the way was also foretold.

 

[Sky Dancer]

Better thread title:

Why would anybody care why Madmutt is or isn't a Christian or a Jew or a Muslim or a Druid . . . .

Because we find some of her premises compelling and we're interested in religious topics.

 

[CurveLight]

I've always found it mildly amusing myself when people claim we can't have any understanding of deified morality and yet at the same time believe it's all just listed out in a book. I also found it largely amusing when religions claim morality, law, and ethics can somehow change over time, despite an omnipotent being demanding them. Cuz ya know slavery isn't so bad cuz the bible says it's ok.

Looks like your understanding of Christianity is totally screwed.

You keep mixing up the Old Testament with the new.

Christianity is based on Jesus Christ....not on the writings of Moses, Abraham, and the other patriarchs listed in the Old Testament.

Actually I have a rather accurate understanding of the religion. It looks like the point of what I said just went over your head, so I'll use smaller words and try again.

Christianity is based on Jesus, a Jew, and the Jewish deity. The New Test is different than the Old Test in numerous places, including law and general morality. So explain to me why an omnipotent being would ever require change of laws, morals, or "right and wrong". Oh because you can hand waive and claim "well Jesus changed stuff". Like the legitimacy of owning slaves? Wiping away original sin somehow made basic human equality change? Most people tend to overlook how basic decency completely changed in the New version, or why.

Your question is answered in Heb. 8.

 

[Sky Dancer]

Looks like your understanding of Christianity is totally screwed.

You keep mixing up the Old Testament with the new.

Christianity is based on Jesus Christ....not on the writings of Moses, Abraham, and the other patriarchs listed in the Old Testament.

Actually I have a rather accurate understanding of the religion. It looks like the point of what I said just went over your head, so I'll use smaller words and try again.

Christianity is based on Jesus, a Jew, and the Jewish deity. The New Test is different than the Old Test in numerous places, including law and general morality. So explain to me why an omnipotent being would ever require change of laws, morals, or "right and wrong". Oh because you can hand waive and claim "well Jesus changed stuff". Like the legitimacy of owning slaves? Wiping away original sin somehow made basic human equality change? Most people tend to overlook how basic decency completely changed in the New version, or why.

Your question is answered in Heb. 8.

Curve--

You haven't answered my question. Scroll back to #242.

 

[CurveLight]

Really? Common sense told you that God has no genitals? Hmmm. How exactly does that work? You've never seen God, and certainly no detailed descriptions of God exist anywhere that I'm aware of, so would you mind explaining how you "logicked" out the state of His genitalia?

"A factor can be necessary or an unnecessary condition". In the context of the preceding conversation, I would have to say: What the fuck?

I've seen God every time I've been blessed to be humbled enough to recognize acts of compassion that would make Jesus say "I should have started my ministry much earlier than at 30 years of age."

Have you ever really contemplated God or does it too often get in the way of adding another notch to your cotton candy soapbox? Maddy roughly explained my position regarding anthropomorphism.

so
is your god going to burn billions of people in hell forever is they have sex outside of marriage?
or get divorced?
or are gay?
or are atheist?

and how do you manage to reconcile your belief that slavery is wrong while god insists that slavery is ok?

I assume, of course, that you do disagree with god on this issue....

how do you feel telling god he/she is wrong about slavery?

are you afraid of eternal punishment?

If you keep this up some government genius bureaucrat is going to find a way to make people get an operator's license for trolling like we have driver's licenses for cars.

 

[CurveLight]

Actually I have a rather accurate understanding of the religion. It looks like the point of what I said just went over your head, so I'll use smaller words and try again.

Christianity is based on Jesus, a Jew, and the Jewish deity. The New Test is different than the Old Test in numerous places, including law and general morality. So explain to me why an omnipotent being would ever require change of laws, morals, or "right and wrong". Oh because you can hand waive and claim "well Jesus changed stuff". Like the legitimacy of owning slaves? Wiping away original sin somehow made basic human equality change? Most people tend to overlook how basic decency completely changed in the New version, or why.

Your question is answered in Heb. 8.

Curve--

You haven't answered my question. Scroll back to #242.

I'm too lazy to go hunting.....what is the question?

 

[CurveLight]

Better thread title:

Why would anybody care why Madmutt is or isn't a Christian or a Jew or a Muslim or a Druid . . . .

The less you post the smarter you look you whiny Snitch Bitch.

(The thread is about everone's ideas and they are creating the dialogue which was Maddy's intent.)

It's one thing to be an asshole (like me) but absolutely failing in the attempted razing is quite speshial.

Partial credit. You are indeed an asshole.

But the more you post the more you merely confirm what everyone has now recognized about you.

You are an entirely dishonest and useless poster here at USMB.

And as for the dialog started by Madmutt, the question I posed would still be a superior thread title. Nobody gives a crap why she is or is not a Christian. nobody cares why you are such a drip.

It suffices to know that you are wholly dishonest and completely unintelligent and utterly useless.

P.S. MenstrualMess, old girl, when you wrote "razing" is that the word you thought it was?

You are "speshial" too. Special ed.

You attempted to raze the op title by suggesting a new one you whiny snitch bitch and it's hilarious how jackasses like you complain about a thread then post in that same thread.

 

[Madeline]

Christians are interested in being like Christ.

We also recognize there is no way to attain perfection, hence we need the intervention of Christ.

How wonderful it would be if Christians who want to be more Christ-like prayed to Jesus to ask that their speech be pleasing to God.

How wonderful it would be if non-Christians would contain the arrogance that makes them feel qualified to tell Christians how to practice a faith they don't share. Do I come in here and tell YOU how to be a Buddhist, and expect you to live up to my standards of how that belief system is practiced?

What you really want isn't for my speech to be pleasing to God, Sky. What you want is for my speech to be pleasing to YOU. Which begs the question of "who the heck are you that I should care?"

It ought not matter who the listener is, Cecille. If the listener/reader tells you your language offends, causes pain or feels degrading then you should rock back on your heels and ask "Am I deliberately trying to steal someone else's Dignity?" And clearly on this thread, the answer is "yes". You repeatedly refer to me as an atheist when you know that is not true. You attack others as "ignorant", essentially claiming that no one else's life experience or spirituality could have value next to yours.

If this were how I viewed christians in general I WOULD be advocating for an end to such a vile religion. But in fact I find you to be a bit of aberation. Most christians do not attack other people with this sort of viciousness and deliberate distortion.

If you cannot see the value in treating other people respectfully, Cecille, you have not mastered chrisitianity 101. If you think I am wrong, ask your priest or pastor -- anyone with a modicum of religious instruction would know, this sort of deliberate offensiveness is WRONG.

 

[Madeline]

Really, is English not your first language?

I never said I believed you were smart enough to realize that you were a dumbass and needed to apologize to people for it. That's why I said "IF you did so". The word "if" generally appears when something is only theoretically possible, not likely, such as you ever being smart enough to be ashamed of how stupid you sound right now.

Seems to me you're the kind of person that likes to front about biblical knowledge but then runs as soon as you realize you wore a yellow belt to a 7th degree blackbelt match. So if forgiveness cannot be earned that means you shouldn't evaluate someone's behavior after forgiveness has been given. You're in a secret contest to be more inconsistent than obushama. Just admit it cause you're tied so far.

You know, I looked at my User Control Panel, saw that you had made a new post on this topic, and I said to myself, "I'll bet he doesn't have a single useful thing to add to this subject." Then I opened the thread, scrolled down, and won my bet.

Forgiveness, by definition, cannot be earned. If one "deserved" to be forgiven, one would not NEED to be forgiven in the first place. One of my favorite quotes ever is, "To forgive is an act of compassion. It's not done because people deserve it, it's done because they need it." That pretty much sums that up.

One evaluates their behavior after not to judge whether the forgiveness was deserved, but to judge whether or not the remorse was sincere. More to the point, since we are talking about God, who knew if your remorse was sincere at the time, the actions afterward are important because they are the other primary purpose of the entire exercise: to enable you to become a better person during your time on Earth.

There's no inconsistency here. Just a stubborn, pigheaded desire on your part not to understand what's being said, because your mind is made up, and goddamnit, no point of view will be allowed to have any merit except the one you've decided is correct.

I disagree. I think forgiveness serves only one person: the man or woman who forgives. Does the end of a feud benefit anyone else? Possibly, but 99% of the time, we are carrying anger for someone who has long since moved out of our lives.

Frustration or impatience or irritation is not anger. Anger is the fuel of rage; it murders, burns and destroys. To carry the flame of anger inside you towards anyone who has harmed you is like agreeing to make a moment's distress permanently disfiguring.

You cannot love fully if you are angry at anyone. You cannot achieve Real Peace if you are angry. You cannot move towards Good, or God, if you are angry. Justice is not yours to dispense, and the evil others do to us is part of Life, part of the Sorrows we will all know before we die. Accepting that Life is sometimes sorrowful is yet another task an Adult must face. Those who cannot do this and instead succumb to the seduction of Anger have done themselves a terrible injury and will be lonely until they let it go.

When you fantasize about all the vile things you'd love to see happen to someone you hate -- or worse, take any action to cause them to happen -- you do so at the cost of your own Humanity.

 

[Liability]

The less you post the smarter you look you whiny Snitch Bitch.

(The thread is about everone's ideas and they are creating the dialogue which was Maddy's intent.)

It's one thing to be an asshole (like me) but absolutely failing in the attempted razing is quite speshial.

Partial credit. You are indeed an asshole.

But the more you post the more you merely confirm what everyone has now recognized about you.

You are an entirely dishonest and useless poster here at USMB.

And as for the dialog started by Madmutt, the question I posed would still be a superior thread title. Nobody gives a crap why she is or is not a Christian. nobody cares why you are such a drip.

It suffices to know that you are wholly dishonest and completely unintelligent and utterly useless.

P.S. MenstrualMess, old girl, when you wrote "razing" is that the word you thought it was?

You are "speshial" too. Special ed.

You attempted to raze the op title by suggesting a new one you whiny snitch bitch and it's hilarious how jackasses like you complain about a thread then post in that same thread.

As is so often the case with you and other retards like you, even when you've had the benefit of being corrected, you are unwilling and unable to learn.

"Raze" is a word, but not the word you seem to dimly think it is.

I didn't complain about the thread, MenstrualMess. I mocked it. There is a difference. You aren't nearly bright enough to grasp the distinction, however.

And again, nobody cares why Madmutt is not a Christian. Nobody cares why you are such a dull, boring, useless, dishonest, petty little troll, either.

Madmutt's self-chosen thread title appears to be paying homage to Betrand Russell. He wrote a very interesting piece (he gave a lecture, actually) under the same title back in the late 1920's Here's a link: Why I Am Not A Christian, by Bertrand Russell

People might care about his views. Few care about the barely coherent ramblings of username Madmutt.

 

[Madeline]

Curve--

What is God to you?

I tend to think of God in terms of 'that which cannot be imagined or described' a state of pure being--that can be realized through qualities of love, compassion, joy and equanimity.

I don't see God as a superhuman personality made out of material substance.

Sky Dancer, I think God is Unknowable. Maybe any view of God is as valid as any other....though the view that God is actually several Godettes and a chorus line of the Godette Dancers seems wrong to me, but it may have a version of right that I just cannot see.

I don't have an answer for what you are asking. God is clearly present in every sunflower and in the painting "The Sunflowers" by Van Gogh. I don't see how God could possibly be a "Sky Father" but I do get why some people need to view him that way.

I think what is hardest for many people to accept and honor is that God is inside US. We each have a spark of the Divine, and we should cherish ourselves on account of it. All of us are apples worthy of polishing.

If you have read this far, please take a moment and watch the video. It explains things better than I ever could, and it is gorgeous. If this video does not give you Hope, I am unsure what will.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u-UTEoS5Noc]YouTube - Nature by Numbers[/ame]

 

[CurveLight]

Partial credit. You are indeed an asshole.

But the more you post the more you merely confirm what everyone has now recognized about you.

You are an entirely dishonest and useless poster here at USMB.

And as for the dialog started by Madmutt, the question I posed would still be a superior thread title. Nobody gives a crap why she is or is not a Christian. nobody cares why you are such a drip.

It suffices to know that you are wholly dishonest and completely unintelligent and utterly useless.

P.S. MenstrualMess, old girl, when you wrote "razing" is that the word you thought it was?

You are "speshial" too. Special ed.

You attempted to raze the op title by suggesting a new one you whiny snitch bitch and it's hilarious how jackasses like you complain about a thread then post in that same thread.

As is so often the case with you and other retards like you, even when you've had the benefit of being corrected, you are unwilling and unable to learn.

"Raze" is a word, but not the word you seem to dimly think it is.

I didn't complain about the thread, MenstrualMess. I mocked it. There is a difference. You aren't nearly bright enough to grasp the distinction, however.

And again, nobody cares why Madmutt is not a Christian. Nobody cares why you are such a dull, boring, useless, dishonest, petty little troll, either.

Madmutt's self-chosen thread title appears to be paying homage to Betrand Russell. He wrote a very interesting piece (he gave a lecture, actually) under the same title back in the late 1920's Here's a link: Why I Am Not A Christian, by Bertrand Russell

People might care about his views. Few care about the barely coherent ramblings of username Madmutt.

I guess the Snitch Bitch needs a comprehension lesson. You tried to demolish/destroy/tear down (hence: raze) the op by your blathering whining. Damn Snitch Bitches are universally some of the most parasitic fucks in the world.

 

[CurveLight]

Curve--

What is God to you?

I tend to think of God in terms of 'that which cannot be imagined or described' a state of pure being--that can be realized through qualities of love, compassion, joy and equanimity.

I don't see God as a superhuman personality made out of material substance.

I agree God cannot be imagined to a certain degree but in DeCartes' Mediatations he surmised God must exist because it would otherwise be impossible for imperfect creatures to imagine a perfect creature without pre-existence. So on some levels we grasp a very minor comphrehensive handle on God.....like a grain of sand can comprehend the Earth's oceans.

The term "God" is similar to the word "coincidence." Both terms are born out of the conflict between soft awareness and intimate knowledge. When people proclaim "What a coincidence!" they are simply saying:

"Wow! I caught a whisper of the chaos theory and have absolutely no chance of mapping it out but I can see this one fleeting destination."

A popular theory is we are alone in the world and in that loneliness God/Religion is sought to fill that void. My view is pretty much at odds because we are not alone, ever. The physical manifestion of our bodies is the reflection of our desires to seek independence from our collectiveness on the ethereal plane. For whatever reason, we break away and create our existence of hell on earth and humans are pure illegal inhabitants. If every single human died tomorrow the earth would continue to live on without missing a beat but if just a few precious resources on earth died the entire human population would soon follow. So why are we here?

To help answer that question we each create our own specific parameters of existences and purposes. This includes Gods, deities, cults, atheism, etc. To me, God is the concept of a conflict we are currently unable to resolve.

 

[Madeline]

I was raised (in my early years) by two pinkos with VERY independent minds, and taught such things as how to read. When the folks were gone, I was raised in a Catholic orphanage. All religion, all the time, 24/7. I said the rosary every night and went to Confession every Saturday. I had Religious Instruction every day at school. So why didn't it stick?

The first thing I objected to was this need some folks seemed to have to have their asses kissed because they were Clergy. It didn't help that they were, almost to a person, sadistic, uncaring, evil fuckwhits. Ass kissing has just never been part of my skill set. I had a checkmark for "fails to show proper respect to Clergy" on my report card even single time for a decade -- and every time I would think "seems like the proper amount of respect to me -- ZERO."

So in no special order of importance, here's a list of the reasons I am not a Christian. I am hoping someone who is can address any of them and we can dialogue.

1. If God is Omnipotent, then why is there evil in the world? I have heard every single justification for this, from free will to the "evil is necessary so goodness an show up by contrast" one. None of them wash with me.

2. If Christ is the Messiah, then why didn't humanity enjoy a better life after he was here? There were still wars, and poverty, and suffering. I don't think most Christians understand the Jewish concept of a "Messiah". That person is supposed to SAVE us. I'm not feeling the saving bit so much.

3. I don't get what the Holy Spirit is about. A Supreme Being that seems not to have existed before God wanted to knock Mary up and now has no purpose at all.

4. The notion of a Trinity seems to contradict the first of the Ten Commandments: monotheism. If there is only one God, there cannot be three. It just isn't rational.

5. Speaking of rational, thanks for the condemnation of abortion, birth control, sex for Clergy (that paid off so well, didn't it?), people who are not Catholic (or whatever flavor you may be), etc. A special thanks to the "Creationism" nutters who've brought a new age of enlightenment into the classroom.

6. How is it "Christian" to deny food or medical care to a child if their parents won't first agree to convert to your religion? If your religion is so great, won't the people whom you serve eventually get curious about it? Why's it okay to coerce people into relinquishing their culture and their beliefs in favor of yours because you have the economic upper hand?

7. If prayer actually works, and God actually listens, isn't it evil to pray for the defeat of a high school football team or the results of a test? Doesn't God expect that you'll only pray for stuff that brings you closer to him?

8. How is it possible to reconcile, in your own mind, all the hatred and aggression undertaken in the name of religion with any message of any major religion? You know that it is wrong. How is it okay to commit Major Evil as long as you invoke God's name?

9. How can you seriously believe that a man in a red jump suit "tempts" you? Why can't you just accept responsibility for the evil you do? You're human -- no one has to tempt you. You're full of evil, selfish impulses and can only control them through the wonders of social conditioning, like the rest of us.

10. Why do you need a "promise of Heaven" to do what you know is right? Don't you have a conscience? When you do the wrong thing, don't you feel that?

By the way, I don't belong to any organized religion but I singled out Christians because I have been treated to their irrationality somewhat more often. No Muslim or Jew or Buddist, etc. has ever prosletized to me.

All this boils down to one thing.

The arrogance of man.

Who's being irrational? This all boils down to, "If there was a God, he would do things MY WAY. But, since things aren't being done my way, there can't be a God."

Did it EVER occur to you, that just because things are out of YOUR control, it doesn't mean it's out of God's control?

Stop projecting. It cracks me up. People think they are being soooooooooooooo philosophical with these objections, when what they are really being is INFANTILE.

It's all about ME! Things aren't going as the great I ME MINE would like it, so there is no God.

The little secret here is these people think THEY should be God.

Boo hoo hoo. There's suffering in the world?

Well DUH!!!!!!!! Where did God (in the Bible) ever say there wouldn't be?

Unbelievable. Grow up!

teapartysamurai, anyone who believes they are God is mentally ill. The existence of evil in the world has fascinated every philospher since Man crawled out of the Primordial Ooze. I think NOT asking questions is a betrayal of the Divine every one of us carries within -- we are gifted with a consciousness, and we are expected to USE it.

I am bumfuddled by people like you who seem to believe that learning, knowledge and awareness are somehow anti-God. What is the value you perceive in ignorance?

 

[teapartysamurai]

The less you post the smarter you look you whiny Snitch Bitch.

I don't know much about your argument with that other person, nor do I want to get involved, but this sentence is hilariously ironic.

All this boils down to one thing.

The arrogance of man.

Who's being irrational? This all boils down to, "If there was a God, he would do things MY WAY. But, since things aren't being done my way, there can't be a God."

Did it EVER occur to you, that just because things are out of YOUR control, it doesn't mean it's out of God's control?

Stop projecting. It cracks me up. People think they are being soooooooooooooo philosophical with these objections, when what they are really being is INFANTILE.

It's all about ME! Things aren't going as the great I ME MINE would like it, so there is no God.

The little secret here is these people think THEY should be God.

Boo hoo hoo. There's suffering in the world?

Well DUH!!!!!!!! Where did God (in the Bible) ever say there wouldn't be?

Unbelievable. Grow up!

Yeah really? How dare anyone use their brain to think about stuff?! That's INFANTILE! If there is to be any philosophizing it should be about how awesome the bible is. That and cupcakes.

Cupcakes are also awesome, and similarly cannot be questioned.

No exceptions.

You know how you know you are winning a debate? When the other side fabricates you made an argument (that you never made) and then argues against that.

Where did I say you can't question the Bible? I didn't.

I simply pointed out what the op boiled down to is, "there can't be a God, because there is suffering."

But, I'm sorry, that really means "There can't be a God, because God would do things my way."

It's really is a statement that there can't be a God, because the universe doesn't revolve around what the great I, ME, MINE thinks should be right.

It's the reasoning of a three year old.

Just because I point out that the Bible makes it plain there will be suffering, does not mean you can't question that.

It just means I'll probably be able to easily counter that argument.

So, please don't make up arguments that don't exist. It just makes you look desperate.

 

[Madeline]

Better thread title:

Why would anybody care why Madmutt is or isn't a Christian or a Jew or a Muslim or a Druid . . . .

Because we find some of her premises compelling and we're interested in religious topics.

I dunno why someone who has no interest in religion would ever read the Religion Forum. But I REALLY cannot understand why anyone would think this is All About Me. Even if I gathered together everyone who loved me, a convo such as "So, what do you think about what I think?" would be impossible to hold unless we listened to what EACH of us thinks.

Some of the people on USMB cannot bear being spanked in any debate. Liability is on my Ignore List as he well knows, but apparently he is incensed by that too. Why enter a dialogue among others about their most intimate selves only to whine that I don't seem to care much for what you've written elsewhere? Who the fuck CARES if Liability and I are not seeing eye to eye?

How has that any bearing on anyone's spirituality? The willingness of some folks here to litter on the threads, no matter how demeaning it might be to those engaged in dialogue, takes my breath away. I just cannot understand that sort of selfishness.

 

[teapartysamurai]

I was raised (in my early years) by two pinkos with VERY independent minds, and taught such things as how to read. When the folks were gone, I was raised in a Catholic orphanage. All religion, all the time, 24/7. I said the rosary every night and went to Confession every Saturday. I had Religious Instruction every day at school. So why didn't it stick?

The first thing I objected to was this need some folks seemed to have to have their asses kissed because they were Clergy. It didn't help that they were, almost to a person, sadistic, uncaring, evil fuckwhits. Ass kissing has just never been part of my skill set. I had a checkmark for "fails to show proper respect to Clergy" on my report card even single time for a decade -- and every time I would think "seems like the proper amount of respect to me -- ZERO."

So in no special order of importance, here's a list of the reasons I am not a Christian. I am hoping someone who is can address any of them and we can dialogue.

1. If God is Omnipotent, then why is there evil in the world? I have heard every single justification for this, from free will to the "evil is necessary so goodness an show up by contrast" one. None of them wash with me.

2. If Christ is the Messiah, then why didn't humanity enjoy a better life after he was here? There were still wars, and poverty, and suffering. I don't think most Christians understand the Jewish concept of a "Messiah". That person is supposed to SAVE us. I'm not feeling the saving bit so much.

3. I don't get what the Holy Spirit is about. A Supreme Being that seems not to have existed before God wanted to knock Mary up and now has no purpose at all.

4. The notion of a Trinity seems to contradict the first of the Ten Commandments: monotheism. If there is only one God, there cannot be three. It just isn't rational.

5. Speaking of rational, thanks for the condemnation of abortion, birth control, sex for Clergy (that paid off so well, didn't it?), people who are not Catholic (or whatever flavor you may be), etc. A special thanks to the "Creationism" nutters who've brought a new age of enlightenment into the classroom.

6. How is it "Christian" to deny food or medical care to a child if their parents won't first agree to convert to your religion? If your religion is so great, won't the people whom you serve eventually get curious about it? Why's it okay to coerce people into relinquishing their culture and their beliefs in favor of yours because you have the economic upper hand?

7. If prayer actually works, and God actually listens, isn't it evil to pray for the defeat of a high school football team or the results of a test? Doesn't God expect that you'll only pray for stuff that brings you closer to him?

8. How is it possible to reconcile, in your own mind, all the hatred and aggression undertaken in the name of religion with any message of any major religion? You know that it is wrong. How is it okay to commit Major Evil as long as you invoke God's name?

9. How can you seriously believe that a man in a red jump suit "tempts" you? Why can't you just accept responsibility for the evil you do? You're human -- no one has to tempt you. You're full of evil, selfish impulses and can only control them through the wonders of social conditioning, like the rest of us.

10. Why do you need a "promise of Heaven" to do what you know is right? Don't you have a conscience? When you do the wrong thing, don't you feel that?

By the way, I don't belong to any organized religion but I singled out Christians because I have been treated to their irrationality somewhat more often. No Muslim or Jew or Buddist, etc. has ever prosletized to me.

All this boils down to one thing.

The arrogance of man.

Who's being irrational? This all boils down to, "If there was a God, he would do things MY WAY. But, since things aren't being done my way, there can't be a God."

Did it EVER occur to you, that just because things are out of YOUR control, it doesn't mean it's out of God's control?

Stop projecting. It cracks me up. People think they are being soooooooooooooo philosophical with these objections, when what they are really being is INFANTILE.

It's all about ME! Things aren't going as the great I ME MINE would like it, so there is no God.

The little secret here is these people think THEY should be God.

Boo hoo hoo. There's suffering in the world?

Well DUH!!!!!!!! Where did God (in the Bible) ever say there wouldn't be?

Unbelievable. Grow up!

teapartysamurai, anyone who believes they are God is mentally ill. The existence of evil in the world has fascinated every philospher since Man crawled out of the Primordial Ooze. I think NOT asking questions is a betrayal of the Divine every one of us carries within -- we are gifted with a consciousness, and we are expected to USE it.

I am bumfuddled by people like you who seem to believe that learning, knowledge and amareness are somehow anti-God. What is the value you perceive in ignorance?

Here is another example.

Making up an argument that I did not make.

Where did I say you cannot question??????

But you didn't question in the op. You MADE CONCLUSIONS and stated that you can closed your MIND to the possibility of God, because God wasn't doing things your way.

That's not questioning. That's closing your mind to questions.

You don't think I question suffering in this world?

The difference between you and me is, I haven't closed my mind off to the answers simply because I may not LIKE the answer.

Don't pretend otherwise. The title of your op and your entire op made it plain. You have closed your mind off to the existence of God, BECAUSE things aren't how you think they should be.

That's not questioning, that's narrowing and closing your mind.

Nice try.

 

[Madeline]

The less you post the smarter you look you whiny Snitch Bitch.

I don't know much about your argument with that other person, nor do I want to get involved, but this sentence is hilariously ironic.

All this boils down to one thing.

The arrogance of man.

Who's being irrational? This all boils down to, "If there was a God, he would do things MY WAY. But, since things aren't being done my way, there can't be a God."

Did it EVER occur to you, that just because things are out of YOUR control, it doesn't mean it's out of God's control?

Stop projecting. It cracks me up. People think they are being soooooooooooooo philosophical with these objections, when what they are really being is INFANTILE.

It's all about ME! Things aren't going as the great I ME MINE would like it, so there is no God.

The little secret here is these people think THEY should be God.

Boo hoo hoo. There's suffering in the world?

Well DUH!!!!!!!! Where did God (in the Bible) ever say there wouldn't be?

Unbelievable. Grow up!

Yeah really? How dare anyone use their brain to think about stuff?! That's INFANTILE! If there is to be any philosophizing it should be about how awesome the bible is. That and cupcakes.

Cupcakes are also awesome, and similarly cannot be questioned.

No exceptions.

You know how you know you are winning a debate? When the other side fabricates you made an argument (that you never made) and then argues against that.

Where did I say you can't question the Bible? I didn't.

I simply pointed out what the op boiled down to is, "there can't be a God, because there is suffering."

But, I'm sorry, that really means "There can't be a God, because God would do things my way."

It's really is a statement that there can't be a God, because the universe doesn't revolve around what the great I, ME, MINE thinks should be right.

It's the reasoning of a three year old.

Just because I point out that the Bible makes it plain there will be suffering, does not mean you can't question that.

It just means I'll probably be able to easily counter that argument.

So, please don't make up arguments that don't exist. It just makes you look desperate.

Your reading comprehension skills suck, teapartsamurai. You have made the same mistake as Cecille -- you read "I am not a christain" to mean "I am an atheist". But there are OTHER religions, and each of them has a vision of God. There are even people who just don't know (agnostics).

I don't belong to any religion and yet I DO believe. I have ZERO doubt that God exists, just as I have ZERO doubt that irrational hatred like yours is Evil.

If you feel you can explain why Evil exists, then please do so. Believe me, I'd love to have an explanation. But so far, nothing you have written leads me to believe that I can learn much of anything from you.

 

[Madeline]

All this boils down to one thing.

The arrogance of man.

Who's being irrational? This all boils down to, "If there was a God, he would do things MY WAY. But, since things aren't being done my way, there can't be a God."

Did it EVER occur to you, that just because things are out of YOUR control, it doesn't mean it's out of God's control?

Stop projecting. It cracks me up. People think they are being soooooooooooooo philosophical with these objections, when what they are really being is INFANTILE.

It's all about ME! Things aren't going as the great I ME MINE would like it, so there is no God.

The little secret here is these people think THEY should be God.

Boo hoo hoo. There's suffering in the world?

Well DUH!!!!!!!! Where did God (in the Bible) ever say there wouldn't be?

Unbelievable. Grow up!

teapartysamurai, anyone who believes they are God is mentally ill. The existence of evil in the world has fascinated every philospher since Man crawled out of the Primordial Ooze. I think NOT asking questions is a betrayal of the Divine every one of us carries within -- we are gifted with a consciousness, and we are expected to USE it.

I am bumfuddled by people like you who seem to believe that learning, knowledge and amareness are somehow anti-God. What is the value you perceive in ignorance?

Here is another example.

Making up an argument that I did not make.

Where did I say you cannot question??????

But you didn't question in the op. You MADE CONCLUSIONS and stated that you can closed your MIND to the possibility of God, because God wasn't doing things your way.

That's not questioning. That's closing your mind to questions.

You don't think I question suffering in this world?

The difference between you and me is, I haven't closed my mind off to the answers simply because I may not LIKE the answer.

Don't pretend otherwise. The title of your op and your entire op made it plain. You have closed your mind off to the existence of God, BECAUSE things aren't how you think they should be.

That's not questioning, that's narrowing and closing your mind.

Nice try.

What is so difficult for you in this concept?

Some people who are not christian nonetheless believe in God.​

Your arrogance is almost as huge as your vile need to twist what others have written so that you can degrade them, or try to. You seem incapable of Respect, teapartsamurai -- and Respect is a lesson even a two year old can master.

Only someone truly terrified by Life and by his own True Self could be so lacking in Empathy and Respect for others who are not like him. If I selected out only the posts on this thread written by self-proclaimed christians, I'd have to say most of you are making GREAT arguments for walking away from a religion you seem to believe will reward such bad behavior.

 

[teapartysamurai]

I don't know much about your argument with that other person, nor do I want to get involved, but this sentence is hilariously ironic.


Yeah really? How dare anyone use their brain to think about stuff?! That's INFANTILE! If there is to be any philosophizing it should be about how awesome the bible is. That and cupcakes.

Cupcakes are also awesome, and similarly cannot be questioned.

No exceptions.

You know how you know you are winning a debate? When the other side fabricates you made an argument (that you never made) and then argues against that.

Where did I say you can't question the Bible? I didn't.

I simply pointed out what the op boiled down to is, "there can't be a God, because there is suffering."

But, I'm sorry, that really means "There can't be a God, because God would do things my way."

It's really is a statement that there can't be a God, because the universe doesn't revolve around what the great I, ME, MINE thinks should be right.

It's the reasoning of a three year old.

Just because I point out that the Bible makes it plain there will be suffering, does not mean you can't question that.

It just means I'll probably be able to easily counter that argument.

So, please don't make up arguments that don't exist. It just makes you look desperate.

Your reading comprehension skills suck, teapartsamurai. You have made the same mistake as Cecille -- you read "I am not a christain" to mean "I am an atheist". But there are OTHER religions, and each of them has a vision of God. There are even people who just don't know (agnostics).

I don't belong to any religion and yet I DO believe. I have ZERO doubt that God exists, just as I have ZERO doubt that irrational hatred like yours is Evil.

If you feel you can explain why Evil exists, then please do so. Believe me, I'd love to have an explanation. But so far, nothing you have written leads me to believe that I can learn much of anything from you.

Nice try but stating, "I am not a Christian" is saying you have closed your mind off to possible answers to your questions.

And I am "evil" because I question YOU??????

You really do think you're God, don't you? The arrogance gets worse by the moment.

Honey, I haven't misidentified you at all. Sure you believe in a "god." A little image of YOU that makes you feel comfortable, like all people that claim to be agnostic/atheist/I believe in god/gia/etc etc etc.

You can argue otherwise, but you let the truth slip out when you claimed I was "eeeeeeeeeeeeeevil" for simply questioning YOU.

Your the god in your mind, whether you directly recognize it or not.