Why I Am Not A Christian

[CurveLight]

How the fuck would you know???



By the way....now you're contradicting yourself on the whole works thing. You said that Cecille was saying that works weren't a factor...then you asked me to point out when you accused her of that....then you turn back around and make the same stupidly dishonest claim once again. You spend more time chasing your tail then a Cocker Spaniel.

I always felt you were a little schizoid.

How would I know God doesn't have a penis or vagina? Common fucking sense you reetawrd.

As for the works thing.....a factor can be necessary or an unnecessary condition. Do you understand the diff between the two?

Really? Common sense told you that God has no genitals? Hmmm. How exactly does that work? You've never seen God, and certainly no detailed descriptions of God exist anywhere that I'm aware of, so would you mind explaining how you "logicked" out the state of His genitalia?

"A factor can be necessary or an unnecessary condition". In the context of the preceding conversation, I would have to say: What the fuck?

I've seen God every time I've been blessed to be humbled enough to recognize acts of compassion that would make Jesus say "I should have started my ministry much earlier than at 30 years of age."

Have you ever really contemplated God or does it too often get in the way of adding another notch to your cotton candy soapbox? Maddy roughly explained my position regarding anthropomorphism.

 

[Sky Dancer]

Curve--

What is God to you?

I tend to think of God in terms of 'that which cannot be imagined or described' a state of pure being--that can be realized through qualities of love, compassion, joy and equanimity.

I don't see God as a superhuman personality made out of material substance.

 

[Cecilie1200]

How would I know God doesn't have a penis or vagina? Common fucking sense you reetawrd.

As for the works thing.....a factor can be necessary or an unnecessary condition. Do you understand the diff between the two?

Really? Common sense told you that God has no genitals? Hmmm. How exactly does that work? You've never seen God, and certainly no detailed descriptions of God exist anywhere that I'm aware of, so would you mind explaining how you "logicked" out the state of His genitalia?

"A factor can be necessary or an unnecessary condition". In the context of the preceding conversation, I would have to say: What the fuck?

I've seen God every time I've been blessed to be humbled enough to recognize acts of compassion that would make Jesus say "I should have started my ministry much earlier than at 30 years of age."

Have you ever really contemplated God or does it too often get in the way of adding another notch to your cotton candy soapbox? Maddy roughly explained my position regarding anthropomorphism.

Admittedly, I have not spent as much time thinking about God's genitalia or lack thereof as you have, nor have I apparently spent as much time pondering all the ways that God did things wrong by not consulting you on things first. I was left merely to muse on more mundane, pedantic things, such as the Bible and the devotional and scholarly writings of devout theologians.

I would have to say I am nearly as disinterested in your grammatically-challenged ramblings on the subject of anthropomorphism as I am in anything that Mad would ever have to say about anything. People who start entire threads in order to say, "I'm so much more fricking enlightened than you, and this is why I think so, and you should all now applaud me for being so wonderful" generally impress me as people who are farting out of both ends.

I personally think we've reached the point where you're out of arguments, know you've lost, and are just thrashing around, looking for a way to save face. Move along.

 

[Dr Grump]

God is a myth, an interesting myth, but one nonetheless....

 

[Sky Dancer]

God is a state of being beyond conception which can be realized moment to moment. God has nothing to do with religion as we know it.

 

[CurveLight]

with respect and the hope you aren't going to go ballistic on me, go back and really read what maddie wrote and then think about what you have been posting along with it and you tell me.

i've backed your play on a couple of other threads when you were trading four-letter words with others. i think it's kinda inappropriate on this one.

maddie really reached deep for those words she posted. are you thinking as deeply or are you just 'rasslin'?

I'm being no less sincere than Maddy and I doubt that is in question. I go ballistic because I get tired of so much bowlshit being served. People like cecille and mudwhistle roll out the same crap claim superiority then confuse themselves with God and wonder why people aren't bowing down. Most people know I will engage in any debate with sincerity if that is on the table but I have no patience for bullshit so if people can't handle it I just tell em to fuck off. If they're that damn sensitive then sincerity is a foreign agent.

i feel you, man and that's why i do back your play sometimes. i'm also not questioning your sincerity, but the propriety of the sort of shouting match you were having in relation to the context of this thread.

almost says to me, well, there's one more reason i'm not a christian, muslim or jew. i claim adherence to their mother, the hebrew faith.

you're pretty young, yeah? (at this point, under 35 is pretty young in intellectual circles for me)

if i may, i studied philosophy under robert s. harder at u tampa. he's not widely known because he didn't teach at a big university and didn't publish much. it's more likely to have heard of his associate, robert saatkamp , who published more.

most of these jerkoffs would get cut to ribbons arguing with him and he rarely had to dip to vulgar language to do it. i don't think i ever heard saatkamp cuss but i sure saw them both humble a lot of folks, including me.

i've only been here a few weeks and already i'm meeting so many people with really valid, relevant commentary of their own who are thanking me and giving me pos rep for mine, that i decided that i wasn't going to lock horns with the assholes in the threads.

i don't want to undermine my own credibility and the respect that my writing is getting from so many cool folks whose writing is also respectable by getting into dungball fights like snarling baboons with these devolved mutants.

i decided that when some asswipe decides to point his flamethrower at me, i will only flame them back in a PM and ignore them in the thread so that i can focus on the worthy discussion.

i just did that to rabbi and it seems to have worked. he chickened out after one reply in the PM's and the thread didn't get ruined by a running, off-topic personal argument.

Why give others so much power you let them help decide you will not be a C, M, or J? Should Christians have stopped being Christians when it was revealed the RCC ordered priests to not report sex abuse to local authorities? Should Jews stop being Jews because some Israeli assholes whacked unarmed civilians on a boat of humantiarian aid?

I'm over 35 but don't let numbers or genders be a distraction. I have it set up so I can't see anyone's gender or age and it's an interesting perspective.

I would refrain from name dropping because whatever the intent, it's always inherently tainted with a touch of inescapable patronization. I'm in the Boston area and have been fortunate enough to study under people from HDS, EDS, etc. (See what I mean?)

The vulgarity is overrated. Highly, highly overrated. We got people defending the outright murder of unarmed civilians but somehow find being called a "****" a crime. The shouting matches could and should be toned down but in my experience on the 'net, the "honey" approach is more often than not a failure and it just gives people another chance to pass on their bullshit. A few of my closest flesh life friendships were built on the same treachorous language I use on here and the reason is because we found common ground in weeding out the fakers. I'd much rather prefer an honest smack in the face with a tobasco-soaked crushed-glass dipped shovel than a fake handshake because at least the honesty is not a mystery.

 

[rikules]

I've heard that claim before as a reason why people should be religious. That it will make them happy.

I never said that people should be religious because it will make them happy. I was making the observation that the religious people whom I have met tend to be happier.

if deluding ones'self into believing in a fantastical fairytale makes you happy then perhaps we should create an even BETTER illusion....?

heaven sounds so dull and god so tyranical.....

lets make god a cute little puppy...

and heaven can be a land full of chocolate and ice cream and fudge brownies!

anyway
bottom line
regardless of how happy they are mindlessly believing in whatever irrational religion they have chosen...


it isn't real
and their happiness is based on an inability to face reality

sad, really...

one must ask...."gosh! just how miserable would these poor defective people be if they ever found out that there is NO god!??"

and now I think....
"golly....believing in a deranged hatefilled god who plans on burning 90% of the population in HELL FOREVER for petty offenses actually makes these people HAPPY?"

"wow...what sick bastards they are"

 

[CurveLight]

God is a myth, an interesting myth, but one nonetheless....

That's the same thing as fundies claiming God wears a jock strap....which they say.....explains the grand canyon as "He" needed a new waist band....or something....

 

[rikules]

Was that intended as a display of your christianity? Or are you just willy-nilly showing your ass on any available thread?

As if you would welcome a display of christianity. Don't you consider christrians evil?

1. there is no god

2. the god depicted in the christian bible is a very bad god

3. some christians ARE evil

4. more christians are not evil, they are just deluded

5. MANY christians, though not actually evil, would DO EVIL THINGS simply if they are told to by their christian leaders

a christian leader (who may be evil) might say;

"homosexuals, wiccans, atheists, liberals, feminists (or whomever) are OF THE DEVIL!

they are an ABOMINATION in the eyes of the dog

suffer not "homosexuals, wiccans, atheists, liberals, feminists (or whomever)" to live!"

"go forth and slaughter them for dog!"

and millions of simpleminded fear filled christians just might go forth, as part of dogs army, soldiers of dog, and slaughter millions of innocent people

you, for example
or willowtree
or retardedsgt....

are 3 who might easily be convinced that slaughtering the enemies of a nonexistant deity was a good thing

 

[rikules]

How would I know God doesn't have a penis or vagina? Common fucking sense you reetawrd.

As for the works thing.....a factor can be necessary or an unnecessary condition. Do you understand the diff between the two?

Really? Common sense told you that God has no genitals? Hmmm. How exactly does that work? You've never seen God, and certainly no detailed descriptions of God exist anywhere that I'm aware of, so would you mind explaining how you "logicked" out the state of His genitalia?

"A factor can be necessary or an unnecessary condition". In the context of the preceding conversation, I would have to say: What the fuck?

I've seen God every time I've been blessed to be humbled enough to recognize acts of compassion that would make Jesus say "I should have started my ministry much earlier than at 30 years of age."

Have you ever really contemplated God or does it too often get in the way of adding another notch to your cotton candy soapbox? Maddy roughly explained my position regarding anthropomorphism.

so
is your god going to burn billions of people in hell forever is they have sex outside of marriage?
or get divorced?
or are gay?
or are atheist?

and how do you manage to reconcile your belief that slavery is wrong while god insists that slavery is ok?

I assume, of course, that you do disagree with god on this issue....

how do you feel telling god he/she is wrong about slavery?

are you afraid of eternal punishment?

 

[SmarterThanHick]

I've always found it mildly amusing myself when people claim we can't have any understanding of deified morality and yet at the same time believe it's all just listed out in a book. I also found it largely amusing when religions claim morality, law, and ethics can somehow change over time, despite an omnipotent being demanding them. Cuz ya know slavery isn't so bad cuz the bible says it's ok.

Looks like your understanding of Christianity is totally screwed.

You keep mixing up the Old Testament with the new.

Christianity is based on Jesus Christ....not on the writings of Moses, Abraham, and the other patriarchs listed in the Old Testament.

Actually I have a rather accurate understanding of the religion. It looks like the point of what I said just went over your head, so I'll use smaller words and try again.

Christianity is based on Jesus, a Jew, and the Jewish deity. The New Test is different than the Old Test in numerous places, including law and general morality. So explain to me why an omnipotent being would ever require change of laws, morals, or "right and wrong". Oh because you can hand waive and claim "well Jesus changed stuff". Like the legitimacy of owning slaves? Wiping away original sin somehow made basic human equality change? Most people tend to overlook how basic decency completely changed in the New version, or why.

 

[CurveLight]

Really, is English not your first language?

I never said I believed you were smart enough to realize that you were a dumbass and needed to apologize to people for it. That's why I said "IF you did so". The word "if" generally appears when something is only theoretically possible, not likely, such as you ever being smart enough to be ashamed of how stupid you sound right now.

Seems to me you're the kind of person that likes to front about biblical knowledge but then runs as soon as you realize you wore a yellow belt to a 7th degree blackbelt match. So if forgiveness cannot be earned that means you shouldn't evaluate someone's behavior after forgiveness has been given. You're in a secret contest to be more inconsistent than obushama. Just admit it cause you're tied so far.

You know, I looked at my User Control Panel, saw that you had made a new post on this topic, and I said to myself, "I'll bet he doesn't have a single useful thing to add to this subject." Then I opened the thread, scrolled down, and won my bet.

Forgiveness, by definition, cannot be earned. If one "deserved" to be forgiven, one would not NEED to be forgiven in the first place. One of my favorite quotes ever is, "To forgive is an act of compassion. It's not done because people deserve it, it's done because they need it." That pretty much sums that up.

One evaluates their behavior after not to judge whether the forgiveness was deserved, but to judge whether or not the remorse was sincere. More to the point, since we are talking about God, who knew if your remorse was sincere at the time, the actions afterward are important because they are the other primary purpose of the entire exercise: to enable you to become a better person during your time on Earth.

There's no inconsistency here. Just a stubborn, pigheaded desire on your part not to understand what's being said, because your mind is made up, and goddamnit, no point of view will be allowed to have any merit except the one you've decided is correct.

You won a bet you made with yourself? A bet in which only you and you alone could decide if you won or lost. Then you proceed to proudly proclaim you won that bet. You're the kind of bitch that fucks 3 guys in one night then the next morning pretend you're a "Godly woman" because you threw a few dead presidents in a collection plate then gossip about how you heard Sally was caught kissing a guy on the cheek. Oh how cloud she! You really don't want to fuck with me cause I'll put your ass to bed in tears.

You've tap danced around the conditions of forgiveness and in doing so, have complicated and negated your earlier position. If no works can earn forgiveness from God then our actions post-apology are irrelevent on the basis of it being impossible to earn forgiveness from God.

It's also revealing you claim special powers to be able to know sincerity. Do you think it's fair to condemn people as being insincere when they fuck up? Have you ever been around addicts who would fuck up and ask for forgiveness then go get high again? Would you really be so arrogant as to accuse them of not being sincere or would you simply add a 4th or 5th guy to your evening's roster you self-righteous hag?

 

[Liability]

Better thread title:

Why would anybody care why Madmutt is or isn't a Christian or a Jew or a Muslim or a Druid . . . .

 

[SmarterThanHick]

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=urlTBBKTO68]YouTube - An Atheist Meets God[/ame]

 

[CurveLight]

Nope. It's more of an acknowledgement that many people are just too arrogant to honestly search for the truth.

I say the notion that God can't be held up to any sort of basic standards of morality is being really dishonest.

"You can't question anything he does, because he's God."

It's a cop-out.

God doesn't do anything...anymore.

His last act was allowing his son to be beating nearly to death and murdered to save us.

His son and the Holy Spirit are up to bat.

By the way....for centuries nothing that happens here on Earth is the work of God.

Guess who has domain over the planet we live on now?

You say you love God then accuse him of being lazy and doing nothing so it's all up to Jesus and the Holy Spirit.

(Aslo....the Trinity is not constructed of three separate beings so if the Holy Spirit is doing something then God is also doing something)

 

[CurveLight]

Better thread title:

Why would anybody care why Madmutt is or isn't a Christian or a Jew or a Muslim or a Druid . . . .

The less you post the smarter you look you whiny Snitch Bitch.

(The thread is about everone's ideas and they are creating the dialogue which was Maddy's intent.)

It's one thing to be an asshole (like me) but absolutely failing in the attempted razing is quite speshial.

 

[Liability]

Better thread title:

Why would anybody care why Madmutt is or isn't a Christian or a Jew or a Muslim or a Druid . . . .

The less you post the smarter you look you whiny Snitch Bitch.

(The thread is about everone's ideas and they are creating the dialogue which was Maddy's intent.)

It's one thing to be an asshole (like me) but absolutely failing in the attempted razing is quite speshial.

Partial credit. You are indeed an asshole.

But the more you post the more you merely confirm what everyone has now recognized about you.

You are an entirely dishonest and useless poster here at USMB.

And as for the dialog started by Madmutt, the question I posed would still be a superior thread title. Nobody gives a crap why she is or is not a Christian. nobody cares why you are such a drip.

It suffices to know that you are wholly dishonest and completely unintelligent and utterly useless.

P.S. MenstrualMess, old girl, when you wrote "razing" is that the word you thought it was?

You are "speshial" too. Special ed.

 

[rikules]

I've always found it mildly amusing myself when people claim we can't have any understanding of deified morality and yet at the same time believe it's all just listed out in a book. I also found it largely amusing when religions claim morality, law, and ethics can somehow change over time, despite an omnipotent being demanding them. Cuz ya know slavery isn't so bad cuz the bible says it's ok.

Looks like your understanding of Christianity is totally screwed.

You keep mixing up the Old Testament with the new.

Christianity is based on Jesus Christ....not on the writings of Moses, Abraham, and the other patriarchs listed in the Old Testament.

Actually I have a rather accurate understanding of the religion. It looks like the point of what I said just went over your head, so I'll use smaller words and try again.

Christianity is based on Jesus, a Jew, and the Jewish deity. The New Test is different than the Old Test in numerous places, including law and general morality. So explain to me why an omnipotent being would ever require change of laws, morals, or "right and wrong". Oh because you can hand waive and claim "well Jesus changed stuff". Like the legitimacy of owning slaves? Wiping away original sin somehow made basic human equality change? Most people tend to overlook how basic decency completely changed in the New version, or why.

"So explain to me why an omnipotent being would ever require change of laws, morals, or "right and wrong"."


seems like a fair question.

is god an absolutist or a relativist?

are morals absolute or relative?

did god change his mind?

if god changed his mind once....maybe he'll change it again?

if god was wrong about some things...
what else might he be wrong about?

how can an omnipotent being ever be wrong in the first place?

 

[teapartysamurai]

I was raised (in my early years) by two pinkos with VERY independent minds, and taught such things as how to read. When the folks were gone, I was raised in a Catholic orphanage. All religion, all the time, 24/7. I said the rosary every night and went to Confession every Saturday. I had Religious Instruction every day at school. So why didn't it stick?

The first thing I objected to was this need some folks seemed to have to have their asses kissed because they were Clergy. It didn't help that they were, almost to a person, sadistic, uncaring, evil fuckwhits. Ass kissing has just never been part of my skill set. I had a checkmark for "fails to show proper respect to Clergy" on my report card even single time for a decade -- and every time I would think "seems like the proper amount of respect to me -- ZERO."

So in no special order of importance, here's a list of the reasons I am not a Christian. I am hoping someone who is can address any of them and we can dialogue.

1. If God is Omnipotent, then why is there evil in the world? I have heard every single justification for this, from free will to the "evil is necessary so goodness an show up by contrast" one. None of them wash with me.

2. If Christ is the Messiah, then why didn't humanity enjoy a better life after he was here? There were still wars, and poverty, and suffering. I don't think most Christians understand the Jewish concept of a "Messiah". That person is supposed to SAVE us. I'm not feeling the saving bit so much.

3. I don't get what the Holy Spirit is about. A Supreme Being that seems not to have existed before God wanted to knock Mary up and now has no purpose at all.

4. The notion of a Trinity seems to contradict the first of the Ten Commandments: monotheism. If there is only one God, there cannot be three. It just isn't rational.

5. Speaking of rational, thanks for the condemnation of abortion, birth control, sex for Clergy (that paid off so well, didn't it?), people who are not Catholic (or whatever flavor you may be), etc. A special thanks to the "Creationism" nutters who've brought a new age of enlightenment into the classroom.

6. How is it "Christian" to deny food or medical care to a child if their parents won't first agree to convert to your religion? If your religion is so great, won't the people whom you serve eventually get curious about it? Why's it okay to coerce people into relinquishing their culture and their beliefs in favor of yours because you have the economic upper hand?

7. If prayer actually works, and God actually listens, isn't it evil to pray for the defeat of a high school football team or the results of a test? Doesn't God expect that you'll only pray for stuff that brings you closer to him?

8. How is it possible to reconcile, in your own mind, all the hatred and aggression undertaken in the name of religion with any message of any major religion? You know that it is wrong. How is it okay to commit Major Evil as long as you invoke God's name?

9. How can you seriously believe that a man in a red jump suit "tempts" you? Why can't you just accept responsibility for the evil you do? You're human -- no one has to tempt you. You're full of evil, selfish impulses and can only control them through the wonders of social conditioning, like the rest of us.

10. Why do you need a "promise of Heaven" to do what you know is right? Don't you have a conscience? When you do the wrong thing, don't you feel that?

By the way, I don't belong to any organized religion but I singled out Christians because I have been treated to their irrationality somewhat more often. No Muslim or Jew or Buddist, etc. has ever prosletized to me.

All this boils down to one thing.

The arrogance of man.

Who's being irrational? This all boils down to, "If there was a God, he would do things MY WAY. But, since things aren't being done my way, there can't be a God."

Did it EVER occur to you, that just because things are out of YOUR control, it doesn't mean it's out of God's control?

Stop projecting. It cracks me up. People think they are being soooooooooooooo philosophical with these objections, when what they are really being is INFANTILE.

It's all about ME! Things aren't going as the great I ME MINE would like it, so there is no God.

The little secret here is these people think THEY should be God.

Boo hoo hoo. There's suffering in the world?

Well DUH!!!!!!!! Where did God (in the Bible) ever say there wouldn't be?

Unbelievable. Grow up!

 

[SmarterThanHick]

The less you post the smarter you look you whiny Snitch Bitch.

I don't know much about your argument with that other person, nor do I want to get involved, but this sentence is hilariously ironic.

All this boils down to one thing.

The arrogance of man.

Who's being irrational? This all boils down to, "If there was a God, he would do things MY WAY. But, since things aren't being done my way, there can't be a God."

Did it EVER occur to you, that just because things are out of YOUR control, it doesn't mean it's out of God's control?

Stop projecting. It cracks me up. People think they are being soooooooooooooo philosophical with these objections, when what they are really being is INFANTILE.

It's all about ME! Things aren't going as the great I ME MINE would like it, so there is no God.

The little secret here is these people think THEY should be God.

Boo hoo hoo. There's suffering in the world?

Well DUH!!!!!!!! Where did God (in the Bible) ever say there wouldn't be?

Unbelievable. Grow up!

Yeah really? How dare anyone use their brain to think about stuff?! That's INFANTILE! If there is to be any philosophizing it should be about how awesome the bible is. That and cupcakes.

Cupcakes are also awesome, and similarly cannot be questioned.

No exceptions.