Why I Am Not A Christian

[Madeline]

The Light wrote in part:

But what is evil and who determines it? What if I define "evil" differently that you do?

For example, when it comes to speeding, I could go 70 miles per hour on a highway which would be perfectly lawful, but come to a small rural road and find out that going that speed makes me an evil criminal... Was it the speed that made me a criminal? NO... it was the law that made me a criminal at that speed in that zone.

If there is no supreme being from which absolutes are derived, then nothing is absolute and everyone is their own god judging what is right or wrong in their own eyes.

I'm not feeling you guys so much. No one but me thinks there is a class of behaviors that are always Evil? Am I surrounded by situational ethicists and humanists?

 

[Intense]

The Light wrote in part:

But what is evil and who determines it? What if I define "evil" differently that you do?

For example, when it comes to speeding, I could go 70 miles per hour on a highway which would be perfectly lawful, but come to a small rural road and find out that going that speed makes me an evil criminal... Was it the speed that made me a criminal? NO... it was the law that made me a criminal at that speed in that zone.

If there is no supreme being from which absolutes are derived, then nothing is absolute and everyone is their own god judging what is right or wrong in their own eyes.

I'm not feeling you guys so much. No one but me thinks there is a class of behaviors that are always Evil? Am I surrounded by situational ethicists and humanists?

You are surrounded by circumstance. How you rationalize and cope is up to you. What principles do you apply, in what order, degree, is for you to decide and live with. We all know consequence, whether we admit it or not. What do you learn from cause and effect?

 

[Madeline]

What principles?

Life matters more than gain.

Art matters more than gain.

Dignity is good but Pride is Evil.

Trust and Intimacy cannot happen if there is Deceit of any sort.

Anger is a force for Evil but Righteousness is a Force for Good.

An unexamined life is a waste.

We're duty bound to help each other.

Don't pick endangered wildflowers.

SERIOUSLY?

"Treat your neighbor as you wish to be treated."

 

[Intense]

What principles?



Life matters more than gain.

Art matters more than gain.

Dignity is good but Pride is Evil.

Trust and Intimacy cannot happen if there is Deceit of any sort.

Anger is a force for Evil but Righteousness is a Force for Good.

An unexamined life is a waste.

We're duty bound to help each other.

Don't pick endangered wildflowers.

SERIOUSLY?

"Treat your neighbor as you wish to be treated."

What principles?

What is your motive or intention applied to circumstance? What is the driving force behind it?


Life matters more than gain.

What is the point here? What is the value of anything you obtained here after you are dead?


Art matters more than gain.

Really??? So if your house was on fire, rather than run to save your vital records, possessions, and treasures, you would instead, run to the refrigerator to save your child's drawings??? Not likely. Everything has it's place. Preservation of Life way up there. Circumstance generally dictates what is attainable within reason. We all live with the weight of our choices. What does that imply? Choose wisely as opposed to having predetermined expectations and duplicate specifications of how you expect everyone around you to react. Maybe part of true religion is being in the present and using your own mind to resolve, what perturbs you. You keep looking outside yourself for affirmation, when maybe, in part, the answer lies within?


Dignity is good but Pride is Evil.

True, the Bible teaches that pride is evil. I would point out that anything that violates our individual relationship with our maker becomes an obstacle and a sin. Glory be to God. God first in all things.


Trust and Intimacy cannot happen if there is Deceit of any sort.

Totally disagree. Perfect argument for "The New Covenant". In spite of what we think, say, do, fail to do, our reason for being out weighs our tangents. A parent stops loving a child because of short comings or deceit??? No!


Anger is a force for Evil but Righteousness is a Force for Good.
Misplaced anger is a force for evil. Acting without reason, complicating a situation by applying the wrong resolution compounds the evil. Righteousness is inspired by what? What does it serve, to what end? Cannot Anger be Righteous? Of course it can.


An unexamined life is a waste.
I'm a Virgo, that's all we do! I'm tired of it! I want a life! I want to be free!

Thank You for letting me vent. I feel better now.

There is allot of waste in this realm without purpose behind our actions.


We're duty bound to help each other.

Yes and no. You have predetermined expectations of what you think other people owe you. Other people owe you and I nothing. Too many spit on the gift that others in fact do provide which is a sin in itself. Have you ever read "The Fountainhead" by Ayn Rand? For an Atheist, she sure nailed conscience, inspiration, and purpose well.


Don't pick endangered wildflowers.

Why? Is there no point in their life when it is not okay? Or is this about who is in control???


"Treat your neighbor as you wish to be treated."

I'm sure many a life has been preserved through etiquette, politeness, courtesy. Positive projection.

 

[del]

Glad you can see that. I also see your other point.

I think it was meant to scare. I think it was meant to inspire aw. In that I have always seen what you meant and understood.

I've never known Jesus to be God. I've always known Jesus to be the son of God.

But I'm a lazy Christian. I'll go ask Neubarth.

i was raised in a trinitarian religion.

you're definitely making the right move asking neubarth, especially since pubes is unavailable.

UU is an acronym for:

"I want to cover all the bases so in case I'm personally wrong I don't have to accept the consequences."

(Many friends are UU and they laugh when I say that. I dated a UUSC employee in Cambridge for a while too so I'm somewhat familiar and a good friend has recently been given a UU Minister position in Maine)

good friends often laugh at jokes that aren't funny. you should look up acronym in the dictionary.

Q: what do you get if you cross a unitarian and a jehovah's witness?

A: someone who goes door to door with nothing to say.

now, that's funny

drive safely and remember to tip your server

thanks!

 

[Madeline]

God bless del.

 

[del]

God bless del.

awwwww

 

[Toro]

I don't know if "masochism" works for me in describing glorying suffering. I think that crhistians think of it more as a veneration of the suffering that was endured. For me the inception of the "idol" of the cross was that it was part of the "picture book bible" way to explain and bring people to understanding of the event when the bible was only read in Latin by the clergy.

But I sure see how that image would scare the shit out of a child.

You have given out too much Reputation in the last 24 hours, try again later.

Glad you can see that. I also see your other point.

last time i checked, to be a christian meant that one believed that jesus was god. i don't believe that. i don't believe in an end day, either. i don't know if i'm right or wrong, but that's what i believe.

I've never known Jesus to be God. I've always known Jesus to be the son of God.

But I'm a lazy Christian. I'll go ask Neubarth.

Son of God is still an assignment of divinity.

I said I was going to ask Neubarth!

You aren't a male model champion pugilist bigamist reverend who has sired hundreds of kids and speaks to militia groups. WTF do you know?

 

[SmarterThanHick]

Oh boy you are one dumb hick. This is your free tutor lesson of the day. If you require anymore you must first obtain paypal info and pay a sufficient amount. So. Please. Pay. Attention.

A masochist will subject him/herself to punishment/pain purely out of seeking that pain. They will often go to a place....house in the suburbs or a "massage" parlor in the city and they will pay money or be in a reciprocal relationship.

What Jesus did was accept the consequences of his actions. He accepted responsibility for his actions. That is not "subjecting yourself to pain" you dumb fucking hick. He did not run to the Roman/Temple rulers and say:

"Oh please beat the fuck out of me for the hell of it."

You really should not get your biblical knowledge from shitty snuff films made my anti-Semitic fuckwads like Gibson.

Do you see the difference yet? If not....get ready to paypal your way to another lesson you drowner.

Looks like you went to another dictionary to explain something for you, you copied and pasted the dumbed down version, and once again ignored all other definitions of the same word. "house in the suburbs"? Wow. As the previous definitions I posted specifically demonstrated, he did not need to go to anyone and ask or pay for the pain. He simply needed to allow it to be brought upon him. He was given chances to lessen the pain, and he refused. I couldn't help note that you didn't deny this. In fact you completely ignored it.

As for your entertaining paypal reference, I take this to mean you find yourself thoroughly beat on this topic, and you're trying to give yourself a way out of continuing it so as not to continue looking so foolish. Good effort, but too late.

 

[Yukon.]

I, Yukon, am a former priest of the Roman Catholic Church. I was, I am , and I will die CHRISTIAN.

PRAISE JEASUS for He is the only path to Heaven and Life Eternal.

 

[Intense]

Oh boy you are one dumb hick. This is your free tutor lesson of the day. If you require anymore you must first obtain paypal info and pay a sufficient amount. So. Please. Pay. Attention.

A masochist will subject him/herself to punishment/pain purely out of seeking that pain. They will often go to a place....house in the suburbs or a "massage" parlor in the city and they will pay money or be in a reciprocal relationship.

What Jesus did was accept the consequences of his actions. He accepted responsibility for his actions. That is not "subjecting yourself to pain" you dumb fucking hick. He did not run to the Roman/Temple rulers and say:

"Oh please beat the fuck out of me for the hell of it."

You really should not get your biblical knowledge from shitty snuff films made my anti-Semitic fuckwads like Gibson.

Do you see the difference yet? If not....get ready to paypal your way to another lesson you drowner.

Looks like you went to another dictionary to explain something for you, you copied and pasted the dumbed down version, and once again ignored all other definitions of the same word. "house in the suburbs"? Wow. As the previous definitions I posted specifically demonstrated, he did not need to go to anyone and ask or pay for the pain. He simply needed to allow it to be brought upon him. He was given chances to lessen the pain, and he refused. I couldn't help note that you didn't deny this. In fact you completely ignored it.

As for your entertaining paypal reference, I take this to mean you find yourself thoroughly beat on this topic, and you're trying to give yourself a way out of continuing it so as not to continue looking so foolish. Good effort, but too late.

Wow!!! I really want to thank you for aligning me with Curve light, You really are caught up in your own glow. You are sure now that you want to paint Christ as a Masochist?

Here is the first of two Old Testament Depictions.


Isaiah / 53


53:1 Who hath believed our report? and to whom is the arm of the LORD revealed?

53:2 For he shall grow up before him as a tender plant, and as a root out of a dry ground: he hath no form nor comeliness; and when we shall see him, there is no beauty that we should desire him.

53:3 He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were our faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not. Defenders Notes >> Defenders Notes >>



53:4 Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted.

53:5 But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.

53:6 All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.

53:7 He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth: he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so he openeth not his mouth.

53:8 He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken.

53:9 And he made his grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death; because he had done no violence, neither was any deceit in his mouth.

53:10 Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand.

53:11 He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.

53:12 Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured out his soul unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.

 

[Intense]

Psalms / 22


22:1 My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me? why art thou so far from helping me, and from the words of my roaring?

22:2 O my God, I cry in the day time, but thou hearest not; and in the night season, and am not silent.

22:3 But thou art holy, O thou that inhabitest the praises of Israel.

22:4 Our fathers trusted in thee: they trusted, and thou didst deliver them.

22:5 They cried unto thee, and were delivered: they trusted in thee, and were not confounded.

22:6 But I am a worm, and no man; a reproach of men, and despised of the people.

22:7 All they that see me laugh me to scorn: they shoot out the lip, they shake the head, saying,

22:8 He trusted on the LORD that he would deliver him: let him deliver him, seeing he delighted in him.

22:9 But thou art he that took me out of the womb: thou didst make me hope when I was upon my mother's breasts.

22:10 I was cast upon thee from the womb: thou art my God from my mother's belly.

22:11 Be not far from me; for trouble is near; for there is none to help.

22:12 Many bulls have compassed me: strong bulls of Bashan have beset me round.

22:13 They gaped upon me with their mouths, as a ravening and a roaring lion.

22:14 I am poured out like water, and all my bones are out of joint: my heart is like wax; it is melted in the midst of my bowels.

22:15 My strength is dried up like a potsherd; and my tongue cleaveth to my jaws; and thou hast brought me into the dust of death.

22:16 For dogs have compassed me: the assembly of the wicked have inclosed me: they pierced my hands and my feet.

22:17 I may tell all my bones: they look and stare upon me.

22:18 They part my garments among them, and cast lots upon my vesture.

22:19 But be not thou far from me, O LORD: O my strength, haste thee to help me.

22:20 Deliver my soul from the sword; my darling from the power of the dog.

22:21 Save me from the lion's mouth: for thou hast heard me from the horns of the unicorns.

22:22 I will declare thy name unto my brethren: in the midst of the congregation will I praise thee.

22:23 Ye that fear the LORD, praise him; all ye the seed of Jacob, glorify him; and fear him, all ye the seed of Israel.

22:24 For he hath not despised nor abhorred the affliction of the afflicted; neither hath he hid his face from him; but when he cried unto him, he heard.

22:25 My praise shall be of thee in the great congregation: I will pay my vows before them that fear him.

22:26 The meek shall eat and be satisfied: they shall praise the LORD that seek him: your heart shall live for ever.

22:27 All the ends of the world shall remember and turn unto the LORD: and all the kindreds of the nations shall worship before thee.

22:28 For the kingdom is the LORD's: and he is the governor among the nations.

22:29 All they that be fat upon earth shall eat and worship: all they that go down to the dust shall bow before him: and none can keep alive his own soul.

22:30 A seed shall serve him; it shall be accounted to the Lord for a generation.

22:31 They shall come, and shall declare his righteousness unto a people that shall be born, that he hath done this.

The Holy Bible

 

[Intense]

Maybe some of the experts herecan both distinguish between the Catholic and Protestant Cross, and explain the meaning of each.

 

[Intense]

Latin Cross
Latin Cross; a symbol of Christianity.


The Latin Cross
also called the Roman, Protestant, Western or Plain Cross

Latin Cross
The Latin cross (crux ordinaria) is a stipe (upright post) with a patibulum (horizontal beam) inserted at right-angles. It is a symbol of Christianity even though it was used as a pagan symbol for millennia before the foundation of the Christian Church.

Although an identification mark of their faith, Christians cannot (and generally do not) claim that they have exclusive right to use the symbol. The Latin Cross is not a registered trademark and it is used freely in heraldry, fashion jewelry, by Freemasons, and still today, by Pagans.

As a Pagan symbol...
... it has been found in China and Africa. It appears on Scandinavian Bronze Age stones depicting the destructive hammer of Thor, their god of thunder and war. It is regarded a magical symbol, bringing good luck and diverting evil. Rock carvings of the cross have been interpreted as a solar symbol, or a symbol of Earth with its points representing north, south, east, and west.

To alchemists, the cross was a symbol of the four elements: air, earth, fire, water. Elsewhere, the cross variously symbolised health, fertility, life, immortality, the union of heaven and earth, spirit and matter, the Sun and the stars.

As a representation of the human form:

•upper section - corresponds to the north wind, the most powerful, the all-conquering giant, the head and intelligence
•lower section - the south wind, the seat of fire and passion, and of melting and burning
•right arm of the crossbeam - the east wind, the heart and the source of life and love
•left arm of the crossbeam - the gentle wind from the spirit land, the dying breath and the subsequent journey into the unknown
The meteorology concerning wind direction was something of a mystery until the 18th century, when George Hadley proposed the atmospheric mechanism by which the Trade Winds are sustained. Even so, something in the Bible written 2,300 years ago shows a surprising understanding of atmospheric circulation1. Note to skeptics: How's that for a Biblical prophecy?

(more...)

As a Christian symbol...
...it is sometimes referred to as the Western Cross to differentiate from cross designs favoured in the East. The Latin Cross is typically used as the basic floor plan of Western churches2. It can be the identification mark for a church or chapel, hence the alternative names: Chapel Cross or Church Cross3.

As a representation of the Trinity, the three shorter sections represent the Three Persons of the Trinity and the longer, lower portion signifies the One Divinity.

It can also be called a Protestant Cross because it is plain, without any corpus4 attached. It does not deny the suffering on the cross but focuses the mind on Christ's resurrection and is mostly used in Protestant churches.

Baptists, for example, tend to favour the empty Latin cross to emphasize the fact that Jesus rose from the dead. (See also Baptist Union Logo)

When the cross includes a corpus, it is usually referred to as a crucifix and emphasises Christ's suffering and sacrifice which gives meaning and sense to His resurrection.

For many Catholics, the corpus is sacramental and its removal would be heretical5. Protestantism initially prohibited the corpus as a graven image and idolatrous. Rood screens were pulled down to allow closer access to the altar by lay worshippers and Altar Crosses were removed as illegal 'Ornaments Rubrics'.6 This helped Protestants distance themselves from Roman Catholics and even today, crucifixes are found more in Catholic churches than Protestant churches7.

Generally today however, Protestants no longer protest too much and not averse to using a crucifix, and Catholics are quite happy to use a plain cross. Christ's resurrection is central to Christian doctrine, whatever the sect.

(more...)

In Freemasonry...
...the Latin cross with its single horizontal bar, is known as a Passion Cross. (With two bars a cross is known as a Patriarchal Cross and with three bars, a Salem Cross, signifying the ultimate rank of the wearer.
Latin Cross

 

[Sky Dancer]

It still represents a bloody, humiliating death.

 

[Intense]

It still represents a bloody, humiliating death.

Good reminder of what we all put others through.

 

[Intense]

It still represents a bloody, humiliating death.

Ever been to a Sun Dance???

 

[SmarterThanHick]

It still represents a bloody, humiliating death.

Good reminder of what we all put others through.

That's exactly the point someone originally made in that the story and symbolism of the cross has masochistic overtones. It's a constant reminder of a bloody, humiliating death that shows you what we put people through and what people endure. Good job agreeing with us.

By the way, no one reads your copied and pasted bible quotes. If you want to make a point, use your big boy words with evidence to support as needed.

 

[Intense]

It still represents a bloody, humiliating death.

Good reminder of what we all put others through.

That's exactly the point someone originally made in that the story and symbolism of the cross has masochistic overtones. It's a constant reminder of a bloody, humiliating death that shows you what we put people through and what people endure. Good job agreeing with us.

By the way, no one reads your copied and pasted bible quotes. If you want to make a point, use your big boy words with evidence to support as needed.

No one can ever accuse you of letting Bible verse cloud your prejudice.

There are many interpretations of the cross or crucifix. You point to one of many. We agree on that one. You catch on real fast sparky.

 

[Yukon.]

Maybe some of the experts herecan both distinguish between the Catholic and Protestant Cross, and explain the meaning of each.

There is no difference my child. Christ died on the cross for all of us. The only way to Heaven and eternal life is through Jesus. If you fail to believe in Him then you will be cast out, there will be weeping and knashing of teeth for all of eternity.