Why I Am Not A Christian

[Newby]

Maybe you can send me a fucking list of pre-approved words that I can use to try and express myself, Newby.

Apparently anything is preferable to you to discussing the substance of what I or any other non-christian has said on this thread. Why is that, I wonder?

Kudos to you for trying. My past experiences with Newby have always ended up in her crying victim and accusing people of dishonesty and Christian bashing. I have begun to think she intentionally tries to derail discussions into dysfunctional debate due to some sort of emotional need she has to feel attacked so as to feel some sort of identification with Christ on the cross.

Who cries 'victim'??? Hilarious.

 

[Sky Dancer]

Madeline

You have every right to criticize Christianity and to lay out all the reasons why it isn't your path. It's the way you're going about doing this that has everyone in an uproar.

sky

I see that a bunch of people are in an uproar but it seems to me Madeline has bent over backwards and been quite patient with them in an attempt to engage them in genuine debate.

The way she puts it is she's trying to be all 'ass kissy'. There's a vast difference between trying to be ass kissy and being genuinely respectful.

You know I'm not a Christian, but I wouldn't dream of debating Christianity's pros and cons with a practicing Christian nor would I attempt to show how Buddhism is superior. I could instead talk about why it works for me.

I could point out places that confuse me about Christianity and ask for clarification from practicing Christians.

 

[Sky Dancer]

I see that a bunch of people are in an uproar but it seems to me Madeline has bent over backwards and been quite patient with them in an attempt to engage them in genuine debate.

I guess I see it differently, Anguille. Madeline has said some things that are like waving red flags in front of bulls. I was out of town for a few days and looking forward to catching up on this thread and I couldn't believe what's happened to it.

Waving red flags? Are you sure you don't have Madeline confused with ScurvyDelight?

Madeline admitting she's trying to be 'ass kissy' is a red flag. There is no need to walk on eggshells if you genuinely want an intelligent interfaith dialogue. You do have to start with a genuine respect for the other side.

 

[Madeline]

Well, I would dream of debating christianity's pros and cons with anyone -- including a practicing christian. I'm very sorry if that marks me as mean in your eyes, Sky Dancer.

Newby is female, BTW?

 

[Sky Dancer]

So lemme see if I understand you correctly. Christians must be accommodated to such a degree that non-christians should not even voice their beliefs?

Maybe you can learn to voice your beliefs without bashing others in the process? Perhaps that what people take offense too, not that you're voicing your beliefs.

Okay, give us a demonstration of how a non Christian should, according to your rules, express their honest reaction of repugnance at the veneration of crucifixes.

I think you can express your repugnance at crucifixes and your own honest reaction without implying that your reaction is the truth of how things are. It's just a reaction, Ang. The cross means different things to different people.

 

[Sky Dancer]

Well, I would dream of debating christianity's pros and cons with anyone -- including a practicing christian. I'm very sorry if that marks me as mean in your eyes, Sky Dancer.

Newby is female, BTW?

I didn't say you were mean, Madeline. Mischievous, yes.

 

[Madeline]

I guess I see it differently, Anguille. Madeline has said some things that are like waving red flags in front of bulls. I was out of town for a few days and looking forward to catching up on this thread and I couldn't believe what's happened to it.

Waving red flags? Are you sure you don't have Madeline confused with ScurvyDelight?

Madeline admitting she's trying to be 'ass kissy' is a red flag. There is no need to walk on eggshells if you genuinely want an intelligent interfaith dialogue. You do have to start with a genuine respect for the other side.

The things I find valuable in christianity never seem to be valuable to practicing christians. They all seem to value the aspects of the faith that strike me as most irrational, anti-human and anti-rational.

Nonetheless, I do find much of what Jesus allegedly taught to be quite true. And have said so.

 

[Madeline]

Well, I would dream of debating christianity's pros and cons with anyone -- including a practicing christian. I'm very sorry if that marks me as mean in your eyes, Sky Dancer.

Newby is female, BTW?

I didn't say you were mean, Madeline. Mischievous, yes.

Thankies for that, Sky Dancer.

 

[Anguille]

Madeline

You have every right to criticize Christianity and to lay out all the reasons why it isn't your path. It's the way you're going about doing this that has everyone in an uproar.

sky

I see that a bunch of people are in an uproar but it seems to me Madeline has bent over backwards and been quite patient with them in an attempt to engage them in genuine debate.

The way she puts it is she's trying to be all 'ass kissy'. There's a vast difference between trying to be ass kissy and being genuinely respectful.

You know I'm not a Christian, but I wouldn't dream of debating Christianity's pros and cons with a practicing Christian nor would I attempt to show how Buddhism is superior. I could instead talk about why it works for me.

I could point out places that confuse me about Christianity and ask for clarification from practicing Christians.

Why not debate the pros and cons of Christianity with a Christian? Not all demand to be handled with kids gloves. In a thread titled Why I Am Not A Christian reasons why people chose not to be Christians is what I would expect to read. If anyone finds the idea that someone would chose not to be Christian too upsetting they are perfectly free not to enter the thread. http://www.usmessageboard.com/relig...-not-a-christian-post2408373.html#post2408373

 

[Madeline]

Anguille, forgive me if you have already stated.....but were you raised as a christian?

 

[Newby]

Waving red flags? Are you sure you don't have Madeline confused with ScurvyDelight?

Madeline admitting she's trying to be 'ass kissy' is a red flag. There is no need to walk on eggshells if you genuinely want an intelligent interfaith dialogue. You do have to start with a genuine respect for the other side.

The things I find valuable in christianity never seem to be valuable to practicing christians. They all seem to value the aspects of the faith that strike me as most irrational, anti-human and anti-rational.

Nonetheless, I do find much of what Jesus allegedly taught to be quite true. And have said so.

Okay, so you're stating that you then find practicing Christians to be irrational, anti-human, and anti-rational? And you expect a christian reading your words to not be insulted?

So what is it exactly that you find valuable that you think practicing christians do not which in turn makes them irrational and anti-human in your opinion?

 

[Sky Dancer]

I see that a bunch of people are in an uproar but it seems to me Madeline has bent over backwards and been quite patient with them in an attempt to engage them in genuine debate.

The way she puts it is she's trying to be all 'ass kissy'. There's a vast difference between trying to be ass kissy and being genuinely respectful.

You know I'm not a Christian, but I wouldn't dream of debating Christianity's pros and cons with a practicing Christian nor would I attempt to show how Buddhism is superior. I could instead talk about why it works for me.

I could point out places that confuse me about Christianity and ask for clarification from practicing Christians.

Why not debate the pros and cons of Christianity with a Christian? Not all demand to be handled with kids gloves. In a thread titled Why I Am Not A Christian reasons why people chose not to be Christians is what I would expect to read. If anyone finds the idea that someone would chose not to be Christian too upsetting they are perfectly free not to enter the thread. http://www.usmessageboard.com/relig...-not-a-christian-post2408373.html#post2408373

I wouldn't debate the pros and cons of Christianity with a Christian because I respect other peoples choices even though they are different from mine. I'm not a Christian scholar, and I don't have the informed experience of putting Christianity into practice for myself. I'm a Buddhist. When Christians debate their faith I read what they say with interest but I don't interject my view unless I have a question or some confusion about it.

That said, I think what you and Madeline have to say is important too and can be valuable for the Christians here if they're willing to be challenged by it. It's a challenge to be insulted and not respond to the insults.

 

[Anguille]

Maybe you can learn to voice your beliefs without bashing others in the process? Perhaps that what people take offense too, not that you're voicing your beliefs.

Okay, give us a demonstration of how a non Christian should, according to your rules, express their honest reaction of repugnance at the veneration of crucifixes.

I think you can express your repugnance at crucifixes and your own honest reaction without implying that your reaction is the truth of how things are. It's just a reaction, Ang. The cross means different things to different people.

Please point out to me where I said my reaction to the cross symbol was the only reaction a person could have or that my reaction is "the truth of how things are", whatever that is supposed to mean.

The only truth I have expoused is that I, personally, am repulsed by the veneration of the cross and the glorification of cruxification.


"The cross means different things to different people."

Duh!

I think in your aim to play conciliator in this thread, Sky, you are losing sight of what is actually being discussed.

 

[Newby]

The way she puts it is she's trying to be all 'ass kissy'. There's a vast difference between trying to be ass kissy and being genuinely respectful.

You know I'm not a Christian, but I wouldn't dream of debating Christianity's pros and cons with a practicing Christian nor would I attempt to show how Buddhism is superior. I could instead talk about why it works for me.

I could point out places that confuse me about Christianity and ask for clarification from practicing Christians.

Why not debate the pros and cons of Christianity with a Christian? Not all demand to be handled with kids gloves. In a thread titled Why I Am Not A Christian reasons why people chose not to be Christians is what I would expect to read. If anyone finds the idea that someone would chose not to be Christian too upsetting they are perfectly free not to enter the thread. http://www.usmessageboard.com/relig...-not-a-christian-post2408373.html#post2408373

I wouldn't debate the pros and cons of Christianity with a Christian because I respect other peoples choices even though they are different from mine. I'm not a Christian scholar, and I don't have the informed experience of putting Christianity into practice for myself. I'm a Buddhist. When Christians debate their faith I read what they say with interest but I don't interject my view unless I have a question or some confusion about it.

That said, I think what you and Madeline have to say is important too and can be valuable for the Christians here if they're willing to be challenged by it.

Why bother whenever the objective isn't debate, it's to insult, degrade and disrespect. Then they get their panties in a twist whenever you rightly question their motives. Neither one of them have an honest interest in debating anything.

 

[Sky Dancer]

Okay, give us a demonstration of how a non Christian should, according to your rules, express their honest reaction of repugnance at the veneration of crucifixes.

I think you can express your repugnance at crucifixes and your own honest reaction without implying that your reaction is the truth of how things are. It's just a reaction, Ang. The cross means different things to different people.

Please point out to me where I said my reaction to the cross symbol was the only reaction a person could have or that my reaction is "the truth of how things are", whatever that is supposed to mean.

The only truth I have expoused is that I, personally, am repulsed by the veneration of the cross and the glorification of cruxification.


"The cross means different things to different people."

Duh!

I think in your aim to play conciliator in this thread, Sky, you are losing sight of what is actually being discussed.

OK. Point taken.

 

[del]

whether or not she intended it, the OP is disrespectful to the beliefs of christians, IMO.

it's not terribly surprising to me that the result is more heat than light.

 

[Anguille]

Anguille, forgive me if you have already stated.....but were you raised as a christian?

No. I was raised in a religion-free home. I didn't even know Jesus Crist was something other than a no-no swear word till I was about 7.

 

[Sky Dancer]

Why not debate the pros and cons of Christianity with a Christian? Not all demand to be handled with kids gloves. In a thread titled Why I Am Not A Christian reasons why people chose not to be Christians is what I would expect to read. If anyone finds the idea that someone would chose not to be Christian too upsetting they are perfectly free not to enter the thread. http://www.usmessageboard.com/relig...-not-a-christian-post2408373.html#post2408373

I wouldn't debate the pros and cons of Christianity with a Christian because I respect other peoples choices even though they are different from mine. I'm not a Christian scholar, and I don't have the informed experience of putting Christianity into practice for myself. I'm a Buddhist. When Christians debate their faith I read what they say with interest but I don't interject my view unless I have a question or some confusion about it.

That said, I think what you and Madeline have to say is important too and can be valuable for the Christians here if they're willing to be challenged by it.

Why bother whenever the objective isn't debate, it's to insult, degrade and disrespect. Then they get their panties in a twist whenever you rightly question their motives. Neither one of them have an honest interest in debating anything.

Actually, I think they are both interested in debating Newby. It's incredibly skillful to debate without being insulting.

It's possible, but it isn't easy. I rarely see good honest debate on forums. Too often they veer off into mutual insult land.

 

[Newby]

Okay, give us a demonstration of how a non Christian should, according to your rules, express their honest reaction of repugnance at the veneration of crucifixes.

I think you can express your repugnance at crucifixes and your own honest reaction without implying that your reaction is the truth of how things are. It's just a reaction, Ang. The cross means different things to different people.

Please point out to me where I said my reaction to the cross symbol was the only reaction a person could have or that my reaction is "the truth of how things are", whatever that is supposed to mean.

The only truth I have expoused is that I, personally, am repulsed by the veneration of the cross and the glorification of cruxification.


"The cross means different things to different people."

Duh!

I think in your aim to play conciliator in this thread, Sky, you are losing sight of what is actually being discussed.

BFD, you've stated your feelings on it about what, 20 times now. Good for you, what the hell do you expect someone to say to such a statement anyway? You're welcome to feel however you want about it, it doesn't change my feelings or anyone else's, so what is the objective in stating it 20 times? The only objective I see is that you think it's 'shocking' and you're just trying to provoke, like I said you'll have to find new victims to play your games with.

 

[Madeline]

Madeline admitting she's trying to be 'ass kissy' is a red flag. There is no need to walk on eggshells if you genuinely want an intelligent interfaith dialogue. You do have to start with a genuine respect for the other side.

The things I find valuable in christianity never seem to be valuable to practicing christians. They all seem to value the aspects of the faith that strike me as most irrational, anti-human and anti-rational.

Nonetheless, I do find much of what Jesus allegedly taught to be quite true. And have said so.

Okay, so you're stating that you then find practicing Christians to be irrational, anti-human, and anti-rational? And you expect a christian reading your words to not be insulted?

So what is it exactly that you find valuable that you think practicing christians do not which in turn makes them irrational and anti-human in your opinion?

From my own perspective, Newby (as if I could borrow anyone else's) most christian sects are anti-sexual. I don't happen to recall Jesus saying women were defective or that sex was evil, etc.

I do recall him saying that wealth is so corrupting, almost everyone who experiences it will suffer a spiritual death. That does not happen to seem to be a guiding principle in the lives of many christians, IMO. Maybe because it is not a guiding tenet of many sects.

I could go on, but those two at least give us something to discuss, if you are willing.