Why I Am Not A Christian

[Newby]

I wouldn't debate the pros and cons of Christianity with a Christian because I respect other peoples choices even though they are different from mine. I'm not a Christian scholar, and I don't have the informed experience of putting Christianity into practice for myself. I'm a Buddhist. When Christians debate their faith I read what they say with interest but I don't interject my view unless I have a question or some confusion about it.

That said, I think what you and Madeline have to say is important too and can be valuable for the Christians here if they're willing to be challenged by it.

Why bother whenever the objective isn't debate, it's to insult, degrade and disrespect. Then they get their panties in a twist whenever you rightly question their motives. Neither one of them have an honest interest in debating anything.

Actually, I think they are both interested in debating Newby. It's incredibly skillful to debate without being insulting.

It's possible, but it isn't easy. I rarely see good honest debate on forums. Too often they veer off into mutual insult land.

Sorry, but I disagree with you when it comes to their motives, their intent is to be shocking and insulting.

 

[Sky Dancer]

The things I find valuable in christianity never seem to be valuable to practicing christians. They all seem to value the aspects of the faith that strike me as most irrational, anti-human and anti-rational.

Nonetheless, I do find much of what Jesus allegedly taught to be quite true. And have said so.

Okay, so you're stating that you then find practicing Christians to be irrational, anti-human, and anti-rational? And you expect a christian reading your words to not be insulted?

So what is it exactly that you find valuable that you think practicing christians do not which in turn makes them irrational and anti-human in your opinion?

From my own perspective, Newby (as if I could borrow anyone else's) most christian sects are anti-sexual. I don't happen to recall Jesus saying women were defective or that sex was evil, etc.

I do recall him saying that wealth is so corrupting, almost everyone who experiences it will suffer a spiritual death. That does not happen to seem to be a guiding principle in the lives of many christians, IMO. Maybe because it is not a guiding tenet of many sects.

I could go on, but those two at least give us something to discuss, if you are willing.

Saying that 'most' Christian sects are anti-sexual is an unsupportable statement. It puts all the Christians here on the defensive to prove that they are sexual and spiritual beings.

 

[Madeline]

I think you can express your repugnance at crucifixes and your own honest reaction without implying that your reaction is the truth of how things are. It's just a reaction, Ang. The cross means different things to different people.

Please point out to me where I said my reaction to the cross symbol was the only reaction a person could have or that my reaction is "the truth of how things are", whatever that is supposed to mean.

The only truth I have expoused is that I, personally, am repulsed by the veneration of the cross and the glorification of cruxification.


"The cross means different things to different people."

Duh!

I think in your aim to play conciliator in this thread, Sky, you are losing sight of what is actually being discussed.

BFD, you've stated your feelings on it about what, 20 times now. Good for you, what the hell do you expect someone to say to such a statement anyway? You're welcome to feel however you want about it, it doesn't change my feelings or anyone else's, so what is the objective in stating it 20 times? The only objective I see is that you think it's 'shocking' and you're just trying to provoke, like I said you'll have to find new victims to play your games with.

Maybe you could begin by listening to Anguille with an open mind, Newby. It doesn't take much imagination to empathsize with someone else's pain, if you set aside your own needs and desires for just a moment.

 

[Sky Dancer]

Why bother whenever the objective isn't debate, it's to insult, degrade and disrespect. Then they get their panties in a twist whenever you rightly question their motives. Neither one of them have an honest interest in debating anything.

Actually, I think they are both interested in debating Newby. It's incredibly skillful to debate without being insulting.

It's possible, but it isn't easy. I rarely see good honest debate on forums. Too often they veer off into mutual insult land.

Sorry, but I disagree with you when it comes to their motives, their intent is to be shocking and insulting.

We disagree. That's ok. I feel it's ok to ask what their motives are but not to state definitively what is in Anguille or Madeline's mind and heart. Only they know that.

 

[Newby]

The things I find valuable in christianity never seem to be valuable to practicing christians. They all seem to value the aspects of the faith that strike me as most irrational, anti-human and anti-rational.

Nonetheless, I do find much of what Jesus allegedly taught to be quite true. And have said so.

Okay, so you're stating that you then find practicing Christians to be irrational, anti-human, and anti-rational? And you expect a christian reading your words to not be insulted?

So what is it exactly that you find valuable that you think practicing christians do not which in turn makes them irrational and anti-human in your opinion?

From my own perspective, Newby (as if I could borrow anyone else's) most christian sects are anti-sexual. I don't happen to recall Jesus saying women were defective or that sex was evil, etc.

I do recall him saying that wealth is so corrupting, almost everyone who experiences it will suffer a spiritual death. That does not happen to seem to be a guiding principle in the lives of many christians, IMO. Maybe because it is not a guiding tenet of many sects.

I could go on, but those two at least give us something to discuss, if you are willing.

Anti-sexual? You didn't address what practicing christians do that is irrational or anti-human? You've now changed the subject. I'd like you to address your previous comments before making new ones. So, back up what you said with actual examples.

You stated:

The things I find valuable in christianity never seem to be valuable to practicing christians.

So what are those things?

 

[Madeline]

Okay, so you're stating that you then find practicing Christians to be irrational, anti-human, and anti-rational? And you expect a christian reading your words to not be insulted?

So what is it exactly that you find valuable that you think practicing christians do not which in turn makes them irrational and anti-human in your opinion?

From my own perspective, Newby (as if I could borrow anyone else's) most christian sects are anti-sexual. I don't happen to recall Jesus saying women were defective or that sex was evil, etc.

I do recall him saying that wealth is so corrupting, almost everyone who experiences it will suffer a spiritual death. That does not happen to seem to be a guiding principle in the lives of many christians, IMO. Maybe because it is not a guiding tenet of many sects.

I could go on, but those two at least give us something to discuss, if you are willing.

Saying that 'most' Christian sects are anti-sexual is an unsupportable statement. It puts all the Christians here on the defensive to prove that they are sexual and spiritual beings.

Sky Dancer, I'm just not as concilliatory as you. Sometimes I state the obvious, bluntly.

 

[Newby]

Okay, so you're stating that you then find practicing Christians to be irrational, anti-human, and anti-rational? And you expect a christian reading your words to not be insulted?

So what is it exactly that you find valuable that you think practicing christians do not which in turn makes them irrational and anti-human in your opinion?

From my own perspective, Newby (as if I could borrow anyone else's) most christian sects are anti-sexual. I don't happen to recall Jesus saying women were defective or that sex was evil, etc.

I do recall him saying that wealth is so corrupting, almost everyone who experiences it will suffer a spiritual death. That does not happen to seem to be a guiding principle in the lives of many christians, IMO. Maybe because it is not a guiding tenet of many sects.

I could go on, but those two at least give us something to discuss, if you are willing.

Saying that 'most' Christian sects are anti-sexual is an unsupportable statement. It puts all the Christians here on the defensive to prove that they are sexual and spiritual beings.

Not to mention that it didn't address the previous comments made at all, just diverted the topic to something completely different.

 

[Newby]

Please point out to me where I said my reaction to the cross symbol was the only reaction a person could have or that my reaction is "the truth of how things are", whatever that is supposed to mean.

The only truth I have expoused is that I, personally, am repulsed by the veneration of the cross and the glorification of cruxification.


"The cross means different things to different people."

Duh!

I think in your aim to play conciliator in this thread, Sky, you are losing sight of what is actually being discussed.

BFD, you've stated your feelings on it about what, 20 times now. Good for you, what the hell do you expect someone to say to such a statement anyway? You're welcome to feel however you want about it, it doesn't change my feelings or anyone else's, so what is the objective in stating it 20 times? The only objective I see is that you think it's 'shocking' and you're just trying to provoke, like I said you'll have to find new victims to play your games with.

Maybe you could begin by listening to Anguille with an open mind, Newby. It doesn't take much imagination to empathsize with someone else's pain, if you set aside your own needs and desires for just a moment.

Sorry, I have no trust in her whatsoever to be honest or altruistic, and I'm pretty much at the same point with you. Your intensions are not honest or good.

 

[Sky Dancer]

From my own perspective, Newby (as if I could borrow anyone else's) most christian sects are anti-sexual. I don't happen to recall Jesus saying women were defective or that sex was evil, etc.

I do recall him saying that wealth is so corrupting, almost everyone who experiences it will suffer a spiritual death. That does not happen to seem to be a guiding principle in the lives of many christians, IMO. Maybe because it is not a guiding tenet of many sects.

I could go on, but those two at least give us something to discuss, if you are willing.

Saying that 'most' Christian sects are anti-sexual is an unsupportable statement. It puts all the Christians here on the defensive to prove that they are sexual and spiritual beings.

Sky Dancer, I'm just not as concilliatory as you. Sometimes I state the obvious, bluntly.

And sometimes you're just up to mischief.

 

[Anguille]

whether or not she intended it, the OP is disrespectful to the beliefs of christians, IMO.

it's not terribly surprising to me that the result is more heat than light.

Perhaps that is because we live in a predominantly Christian society and many Christians are not used to having their beliefs rejected by others. Non Christians in our society are more familiar with having their beliefs rejected and so we are used to keeping a cool head when it happens. Perhaps we just wrongfully assume everyone is like us.

 

[Madeline]

You want to discuss your disapproval of my manners s'more?

Fine. Lemme know when you are done and ready to actually discuss the flaws I and others see in christianity that drove me off. If that ever happens.

 

[Newby]

From my own perspective, Newby (as if I could borrow anyone else's) most christian sects are anti-sexual. I don't happen to recall Jesus saying women were defective or that sex was evil, etc.

I do recall him saying that wealth is so corrupting, almost everyone who experiences it will suffer a spiritual death. That does not happen to seem to be a guiding principle in the lives of many christians, IMO. Maybe because it is not a guiding tenet of many sects.

I could go on, but those two at least give us something to discuss, if you are willing.

Saying that 'most' Christian sects are anti-sexual is an unsupportable statement. It puts all the Christians here on the defensive to prove that they are sexual and spiritual beings.

Sky Dancer, I'm just not as concilliatory as you. Sometimes I state the obvious, bluntly.

So, how is it 'obvious' that Christians are anti-sexual? You can answer this after you've answered the other charges first.

 

[Newby]

You want to discuss your disapproval of my manners s'more?

Fine. Lemme know when you are done and ready to actually discuss the flaws I and others see in christianity that drove me off. If that ever happens.

It would be cool if you'd answer any of the questions that I've just asked you too, but as predicted, I really didn't think you would. I think we both know why that is. I've given up being naive a long time ago.

 

[Madeline]

Newby wrote:

Sorry, I have no trust in her whatsoever to be honest or altruistic, and I'm pretty much at the same point with you. Your intensions are not honest or good.

Why accuse Anguille of dishonesty? Personally I don't doubt the crucifix repels her, and why not? She can't be the only human on earth who does not feel elevated by dwelling on someone else's torture.

I dunno what evil intentions you think I have, Newby. I'm not here to undermine your faith. I'm more than happy to discuss my own beliefs.

 

[Newby]

Madeline admitting she's trying to be 'ass kissy' is a red flag. There is no need to walk on eggshells if you genuinely want an intelligent interfaith dialogue. You do have to start with a genuine respect for the other side.

The things I find valuable in christianity never seem to be valuable to practicing christians. They all seem to value the aspects of the faith that strike me as most irrational, anti-human and anti-rational.

Nonetheless, I do find much of what Jesus allegedly taught to be quite true. And have said so.

Okay, so you're stating that you then find practicing Christians to be irrational, anti-human, and anti-rational? And you expect a christian reading your words to not be insulted?

So what is it exactly that you find valuable that you think practicing christians do not which in turn makes them irrational and anti-human in your opinion?

Still waiting.

 

[Madeline]

You want to discuss your disapproval of my manners s'more?

Fine. Lemme know when you are done and ready to actually discuss the flaws I and others see in christianity that drove me off. If that ever happens.

It would be cool if you'd answer any of the questions that I've just asked you too, but as predicted, I really didn't think you would. I think we both know why that is. I've given up being naive a long time ago.

*Yawns*

Got any other dodges, Newby? This one's getting boring.

 

[Sky Dancer]

whether or not she intended it, the OP is disrespectful to the beliefs of christians, IMO.

it's not terribly surprising to me that the result is more heat than light.

Perhaps that is because we live in a predominantly Christian society and many Christians are not used to having their beliefs rejected by others. Non Christians in our society are more familiar with having their beliefs rejected and so we are used to keeping a cool head when it happens. Perhaps we just wrongfully assume everyone is like us.

Now that makes sense. Don't you think that some people try and bait someone who has taken up a spiritual path and when they fall for it and react to the insult they can stand back and say 'you reacted, you have no faith'. I get that as a Buddhist. People expect me to be calm, cool and collected and to never lose my temper or speak unskillfully. Then I show my human foilbles and they judge me for it.

 

[Sky Dancer]

You want to discuss your disapproval of my manners s'more?

Fine. Lemme know when you are done and ready to actually discuss the flaws I and others see in christianity that drove me off. If that ever happens.

It would be cool if you'd answer any of the questions that I've just asked you too, but as predicted, I really didn't think you would. I think we both know why that is. I've given up being naive a long time ago.

*Yawns*

Got any other dodges, Newby? This one's getting boring.

Newby asked a follow up question. What are the Christian beliefs that you find valuable?

 

[Anguille]

I think you can express your repugnance at crucifixes and your own honest reaction without implying that your reaction is the truth of how things are. It's just a reaction, Ang. The cross means different things to different people.

Please point out to me where I said my reaction to the cross symbol was the only reaction a person could have or that my reaction is "the truth of how things are", whatever that is supposed to mean.

The only truth I have expoused is that I, personally, am repulsed by the veneration of the cross and the glorification of cruxification.


"The cross means different things to different people."

Duh!

I think in your aim to play conciliator in this thread, Sky, you are losing sight of what is actually being discussed.

BFD, you've stated your feelings on it about what, 20 times now. Good for you, what the hell do you expect someone to say to such a statement anyway? You're welcome to feel however you want about it, it doesn't change my feelings or anyone else's, so what is the objective in stating it 20 times? The only objective I see is that you think it's 'shocking' and you're just trying to provoke, like I said you'll have to find new victims to play your games with.

20 times? Exaggerate much?

"you'll have to find new victims" ? I think that statement confirms my psychological assessment of you in an above post.

Sorry, to disappoint you, Newby, but I could not care less if I've changed your feelings about the meaning of the cross symbol or not. When will you proselytizing fanatics ever learn that, unlike you, not everyone wants to push their beliefs in everyone else.

 

[del]

whether or not she intended it, the OP is disrespectful to the beliefs of christians, IMO.

it's not terribly surprising to me that the result is more heat than light.

Perhaps that is because we live in a predominantly Christian society and many Christians are not used to having their beliefs rejected by others. Non Christians in our society are more familiar with having their beliefs rejected and so we are used to keeping a cool head when it happens. Perhaps we just wrongfully assume everyone is like us.

there's a difference between rejecting someone's beliefs and mocking those beliefs.