Why I Am Not A Christian

[CurveLight]

What about your claim that scientists cannot explain what holds an atom together, but you (presumably your faith) can?

What part of that do you have a problem with?

The part where science courses in public schools are hijacked by "creationists", where scientific discoveries are frustrated by opposition to stem cell research, where safer abortificants are withheld from the US public for "religious reasons", etc.

In short, I have a problem with anyone who elevates his own irrationality and frustrates science.

kind of like how you elevate your own irrationalities to try and justify your broad brushing of Christians. Why do you practice what you also condemn?

 

[Madeline]

Which of my "irrationalities" frustrates science, CurveLight?

 

[CurveLight]

Which of my "irrationalities" frustrates science, CurveLight?

I didn't say your irrationalities frustrates science. I pointed out another example of your hypocrisy and you choose to ignore it. When you're ready to face it, you will.

 

[Madeline]

I consider it dishonest to fling accusations and curses around, and then when asked directly about the reasons why, evade answering. Whatever your issue might be with what I have written, let's hear it.

In which of my posts did you find what I have written to be hypocritical and why?

 

[CurveLight]

Which of my "irrationalities" frustrates science, CurveLight?

I consider it dishonest to fling accusations and curses around, and then when asked directly about the reasons why, evade answering. Whatever your issue might be with what I have written, let's hear it.

In which of my posts did you find what I have written to be hypocritical and why?

Maybe if you quoted post 821 and responded to it directly you wouldn't look so damn silly.

 

[Madeline]

CurveLight wrote:

kind of like how you elevate your own irrationalities to try and justify your broad brushing of Christians. Why do you practice what you also condemn?

Okay, I'm game. I disagree that I have made sweeping generalizations about christians.

 

[Cecilie1200]

CurveLight wrote:

kind of like how you elevate your own irrationalities to try and justify your broad brushing of Christians. Why do you practice what you also condemn?

Okay, I'm game. I disagree that I have made sweeping generalizations about christians.

From your OP:

2. If Christ is the Messiah, then why didn't humanity enjoy a better life after he was here? There were still wars, and poverty, and suffering. I don't think most Christians understand the Jewish concept of a "Messiah". That person is supposed to SAVE us. I'm not feeling the saving bit so much.

Really? Do you know "most Christians"? Since there are millions of them worldwide, I'm going to say you don't. So how do you know that "most" of them don't understand the concept of the Messiah? Just because their version of it doesn't match up to what YOU, PERSONALLY, think it should be? Sweeping generalization AND offensive, self-absorbed insult all rolled into one.

4. The notion of a Trinity seems to contradict the first of the Ten Commandments: monotheism. If there is only one God, there cannot be three. It just isn't rational.

I'm quite sure you're unaware - since you've obviously never bothered to learn anything about Christians except what feeds your own sense of self-righteousness and ego - but not all Christians believe in the Trinity. So when you say this prevents you from being a Christian, as opposed to "this is what prevents me from being a Catholic, etc.", you are sweepingly generalizing. Again.

5. Speaking of rational, thanks for the condemnation of abortion, birth control, sex for Clergy (that paid off so well, didn't it?), people who are not Catholic (or whatever flavor you may be), etc. A special thanks to the "Creationism" nutters who've brought a new age of enlightenment into the classroom.

Since you don't bother to specify a particular group whom you are thanking for these condemnations, and your thread is about your hatred of and bigotry toward Christianity in general, I must assume you are thanking ALL Christians for these things. Unfortunately for your narrow little worldview, not all Christian sects condemn birth control, sex for the clergy, people who aren't part of their own group, or even abortion. I do like, however, that you also manage at this point to sweepingly generalize that anyone who doesn't share your worldview is irrational. Again, two for one. I have to commend your efficiency, even if your tolerance and open-mindedness are sadly lacking.

6. How is it "Christian" to deny food or medical care to a child if their parents won't first agree to convert to your religion? If your religion is so great, won't the people whom you serve eventually get curious about it? Why's it okay to coerce people into relinquishing their culture and their beliefs in favor of yours because you have the economic upper hand?

Obviously - to everyone but a purblind bigot, that is - not all (or even most) Christian sects deny medical care to their members. In addition, despite the fact that you've decided no one could EVER be converted except by force, not all (or even most) Christian sects use coercion, economic or otherwise. Nice generalization, though.

8. How is it possible to reconcile, in your own mind, all the hatred and aggression undertaken in the name of religion with any message of any major religion? You know that it is wrong. How is it okay to commit Major Evil as long as you invoke God's name?

I'm really fascinated by your leap in logic that tells you that all Christians rationalize and justify evil in God's name. More generalization AND offensive insult rolled together. Tell me again why I'm supposed to view your posts as a sincere, rational curiosity and not a bitter, hate-filled attack?

9. How can you seriously believe that a man in a red jump suit "tempts" you? Why can't you just accept responsibility for the evil you do? You're human -- no one has to tempt you. You're full of evil, selfish impulses and can only control them through the wonders of social conditioning, like the rest of us.

By "man in a red jump suit", I assume you are invoking a child's rendering of Satan. So aside from offensively denigrating our beliefs by expressing them on a puerile level, you have ALSO generalized the belief in Satan as an actual, sentient being to all Christians, despite the fact that not all Christian sects believe that. Congratulations.

10. Why do you need a "promise of Heaven" to do what you know is right? Don't you have a conscience? When you do the wrong thing, don't you feel that?

I see. So ALL Christians do the right thing simply for the "promise of Heaven". Rude, offensive, AND sweepingly general.

By the way, I don't belong to any organized religion but I singled out Christians because I have been treated to their irrationality somewhat more often. No Muslim or Jew or Buddist, etc. has ever prosletized to me.

All Christians don't prosletize [sic]. If Muslims don't prosletize [sic], how do you suppose they get so many prison converts, genius? Maybe they're not prosletizing [sic] you simply because you don't know any, ever consider that?

I can assure you that as long as I'm alive, any generalization as to the desire of Christians to convert you and save your soul will be false. I'm sure it makes me a bad Christian and I will have to answer to God for it, but I find myself really not caring one way or the other.

 

[SmarterThanHick]

So you're saying Jesus was masochistic because he refused wine.........it's an endless circle because you refuse to stop confusing accepting responsibility for masochism.

No, it was masochistic to knowingly refuse an anesthetic, which just so happen to be in the wine. You continue to claim there is confusion with the concepts of "accepting responsibility" and "masochism". The two have nothing to do with one another. They are completely unrelated. Saying anything about accepting responsibility holds no sway on whether a situation is masochistic in nature or not. It is you who originally brought up the idea of "accepting responsibility", and you who continues to use it as a justification for a concept which is completely unrelated to it. Once again, unrelated things are unrelated.

Was Dr. King a masochist? He would get beat up on the street for his activism yet he kept on with his fight against social injustices. Simple yes or no question.

Yes! Absolutely! Getting beaten and then going back for more is a masochistic tendency. Did you not see my explanation of Rocky 7? It's ALMOST like you're catching on now.

I suspect you will return, stating that King did it for great and justified reasons. That's true. And yet unrelated things are still unrelated. It's clear you still don't understand the idea of masochism, and yet you keep talking.

Secondly, it is not true the torture and murder of Jesus is celebrated. If anything, it is regarded with deep sorrow, but strawmen are what keep you whiners going so don't stop now.

It is an event venerated by millions of people, that has spurred worship of it, movies to be made of it, and general joy that Jesus removed sin. Let's now contrast that to the analogy you like so much, which has continued to work against you. No one celebrates MLK's death. People venerate his actions in life. Compare that to Jesus, where people celebrate both his actions in life, and the passion. People truly believe that a great thing came as a result of his prolonged torture and death. This is sick reasoning, and absolutely speaks of masochistic overtones. But again, this is a concept which you needed to go to the dictionary to first figure out, and you didn't even look at all the meanings of the word, so I can't really expect you to understand it now.

 

[Madeline]

CurveLight wrote:

kind of like how you elevate your own irrationalities to try and justify your broad brushing of Christians. Why do you practice what you also condemn?

Okay, I'm game. I disagree that I have made sweeping generalizations about christians.

From your OP:

2. If Christ is the Messiah, then why didn't humanity enjoy a better life after he was here? There were still wars, and poverty, and suffering. I don't think most Christians understand the Jewish concept of a "Messiah". That person is supposed to SAVE us. I'm not feeling the saving bit so much.

Really? Do you know "most Christians"? Since there are millions of them worldwide, I'm going to say you don't. So how do you know that "most" of them don't understand the concept of the Messiah? Just because their version of it doesn't match up to what YOU, PERSONALLY, think it should be? Sweeping generalization AND offensive, self-absorbed insult all rolled into one.

That may have been fun to write, but it simply is not true. I've yet to find many people outside the Jewish faith who have bothered to learn the basics of their religion, and I don't happen to know any christians who don't believe "Jesus saves". I'm so sorry you feel insulted, but that does not change reality.

4. The notion of a Trinity seems to contradict the first of the Ten Commandments: monotheism. If there is only one God, there cannot be three. It just isn't rational.

I'm quite sure you're unaware - since you've obviously never bothered to learn anything about Christians except what feeds your own sense of self-righteousness and ego - but not all Christians believe in the Trinity. So when you say this prevents you from being a Christian, as opposed to "this is what prevents me from being a Catholic, etc.", you are sweepingly generalizing. Again.

How can anyone be a christian without believing in Jesus as God? This makes no sense.

5. Speaking of rational, thanks for the condemnation of abortion, birth control, sex for Clergy (that paid off so well, didn't it?), people who are not Catholic (or whatever flavor you may be), etc. A special thanks to the "Creationism" nutters who've brought a new age of enlightenment into the classroom.

Since you don't bother to specify a particular group whom you are thanking for these condemnations, and your thread is about your hatred of and bigotry toward Christianity in general, I must assume you are thanking ALL Christians for these things. Unfortunately for your narrow little worldview, not all Christian sects condemn birth control, sex for the clergy, people who aren't part of their own group, or even abortion. I do like, however, that you also manage at this point to sweepingly generalize that anyone who doesn't share your worldview is irrational. Again, two for one. I have to commend your efficiency, even if your tolerance and open-mindedness are sadly lacking.

Fair enough. I should have said "some" not implied "all" christians.

6. How is it "Christian" to deny food or medical care to a child if their parents won't first agree to convert to your religion? If your religion is so great, won't the people whom you serve eventually get curious about it? Why's it okay to coerce people into relinquishing their culture and their beliefs in favor of yours because you have the economic upper hand?

Obviously - to everyone but a purblind bigot, that is - not all (or even most) Christian sects deny medical care to their members. In addition, despite the fact that you've decided no one could EVER be converted except by force, not all (or even most) Christian sects use coercion, economic or otherwise. Nice generalization, though.

It is true of Catholics. I am surprised it is (claimed) not to be true of other christian sects. In both cases, this only happens in foreign ministries, although here in the US it is not uncommon to be forced to pray before receiving whatever assistance the charity dispenses.

8. How is it possible to reconcile, in your own mind, all the hatred and aggression undertaken in the name of religion with any message of any major religion? You know that it is wrong. How is it okay to commit Major Evil as long as you invoke God's name?

I'm really fascinated by your leap in logic that tells you that all Christians rationalize and justify evil in God's name. More generalization AND offensive insult rolled together. Tell me again why I'm supposed to view your posts as a sincere, rational curiosity and not a bitter, hate-filled attack?

I think "bitter, hate-filled attack" is too strong. But look over history, Cecille...the Crusades, the Spanish Inquisition, the betrayal of Italian Jews, etc. Unless you happen to belong to a christian sect that was invented last week, all the major ones have blood on their hands.

9. How can you seriously believe that a man in a red jump suit "tempts" you? Why can't you just accept responsibility for the evil you do? You're human -- no one has to tempt you. You're full of evil, selfish impulses and can only control them through the wonders of social conditioning, like the rest of us.

By "man in a red jump suit", I assume you are invoking a child's rendering of Satan. So aside from offensively denigrating our beliefs by expressing them on a puerile level, you have ALSO generalized the belief in Satan as an actual, sentient being to all Christians, despite the fact that not all Christian sects believe that. Congratulations.

Alrighty then. According to you, there are christians who do not believe in the Trinity, who don't believe Jesus is God and who don't believe in Satan. Pardon me for not realizing this.

10. Why do you need a "promise of Heaven" to do what you know is right? Don't you have a conscience? When you do the wrong thing, don't you feel that?

I see. So ALL Christians do the right thing simply for the "promise of Heaven". Rude, offensive, AND sweepingly general.

Why's it rude or offensive? Are you saying there are also christians who don't believe in an after-life?

By the way, I don't belong to any organized religion but I singled out Christians because I have been treated to their irrationality somewhat more often. No Muslim or Jew or Buddist, etc. has ever prosletized to me.

All Christians don't prosletize [sic]. If Muslims don't prosletize [sic], how do you suppose they get so many prison converts, genius? Maybe they're not prosletizing [sic] you simply because you don't know any, ever consider that?

WTF is up with all the [sic], Cecille? I have no misspelled words in that sentence.

Anyway, what difference does it make whether Muslims proletize to prison inmates? How does that alter the truth of what I wrote? BTW, Jews not only do not proletize, they discourage conversion.

I can assure you that as long as I'm alive, any generalization as to the desire of Christians to convert you and save your soul will be false. I'm sure it makes me a bad Christian and I will have to answer to God for it, but I find myself really not caring one way or the other.

Is this a long winded way of telling me that you hope I go to hell? How completely charming. Goodness knows, the example you've set on this thread should be attractive to many....if justifying hate and anger is their aim.

*

 

[THE LIGHT]

So, in essence what I get from some of the christians on this thread is: fuck off and die. And that just leads me back to my earlier question: why are the christians (some) so angry at the non-christians?

I know this will sound odd, but at times you guys seem a bit envious to me.

I think sometimes people let their emotions get in the way which shouldn't be the case.

I suspect that some christians have never looked long and hard at their faith; that they have merely followed the path laid down for them by others (most likely parents) and resent those of us who walked away after full immersion. What seems to escape notice is that the search we undertook was not without price, and that no one has bolted the door on their own intelligence and curiosity but them.

Doubtless after a quest, some would return to the faith of their childhood, even if only for "emotional" reasons. I happen to think, though, that there'd be more acceptance of those who do not as well as contentment among those who do, if there was a bit less pre-programmed, knee-jerk adherence to any system of belief.

I'm not sure how you got all that out of what I said but anyhoo...

Don't you realize that you have based this entire thread off of your pre-programmer hate for Christianity because of your childhood? Maybe taking a little of your own advise could help you out a bit. No?

Why not take that quest again but this time do it without the preconceived notions and resentment. You will be astonished at the results.

 

[Madeline]

The Light, I am not entirely sure a person can "hate" a belief system the same way they "hate" other people. I'm outraged by the RCC, and I think justifiably so. Beyond that I'm not sure I have an emotional response to christianity....I do to the behavior of some who call themselves "christians", but that is not quite the same thing.

I suspect the easy way out for some of you reading this who accept that I had "every opportunity" to become a christian adult and yet did not is to try a bit of psychoanalysis and conclude that my resentment of the injustices I endured and saw as a child drove me away from the faith I otherwise would have been so at home with. The "but for" argument. And it is true, if things had been different they wouldn't be the same.

However, none of that responds directly to any of the points I made about the faith. None of it addresses the inconsistencies, the misuse or the flawed logic. Replies like the one you have made may marginalize me in the eyes of some readers, but they don't happen to be accurate and they don't respond to any of the criticisms that have been made of the faith by myself and others.

Maybe if you did me the courtesy of accepting that what I have written is my own truth, rather than making up a fairy tale for me to substitute for your comfort, we'd get further in this discussion.

 

[Cecilie1200]

From your OP:

2. If Christ is the Messiah, then why didn't humanity enjoy a better life after he was here? There were still wars, and poverty, and suffering. I don't think most Christians understand the Jewish concept of a "Messiah". That person is supposed to SAVE us. I'm not feeling the saving bit so much.

Really? Do you know "most Christians"? Since there are millions of them worldwide, I'm going to say you don't. So how do you know that "most" of them don't understand the concept of the Messiah? Just because their version of it doesn't match up to what YOU, PERSONALLY, think it should be? Sweeping generalization AND offensive, self-absorbed insult all rolled into one.

That may have been fun to write, but it simply is not true. I've yet to find many people outside the Jewish faith who have bothered to learn the basics of their religion, and I don't happen to know any christians who don't believe "Jesus saves". I'm so sorry you feel insulted, but that does not change reality.

And what, pray tell, does the handful of people YOU personally know have to do with the price of tea in China? You asked for examples of you generalizing, and projecting your own, personal, narrow acquaintance onto "most" Christians qualifies. The more you talk, the more it qualifies.

And no, you're NOT sorry I'm insulted, so don't bother compounding it by a pretend apology you don't mean. You typed your OP with the express purpose of being offensive to Christians, so don't try to convince yourself you're really a nice person NOW.

4. The notion of a Trinity seems to contradict the first of the Ten Commandments: monotheism. If there is only one God, there cannot be three. It just isn't rational.

I'm quite sure you're unaware - since you've obviously never bothered to learn anything about Christians except what feeds your own sense of self-righteousness and ego - but not all Christians believe in the Trinity. So when you say this prevents you from being a Christian, as opposed to "this is what prevents me from being a Catholic, etc.", you are sweepingly generalizing. Again.

How can anyone be a christian without believing in Jesus as God? This makes no sense.

Who said anything about not believing Jesus is God? I said they don't believe in the Trinity. I will do you the courtesy of pointing you in the direction of the research you should have done before you opened your fat, smug, generalizing puss, but I have no intention of taking you all the way through explaining their beliefs. Go look it up as you should have already done.

Non-Trinitarianist Churches:

Unitarians
Jehovah's Witnesses
Seventh Day Adventists
United Pentecostals
Christian Scientists
Quakers

5. Speaking of rational, thanks for the condemnation of abortion, birth control, sex for Clergy (that paid off so well, didn't it?), people who are not Catholic (or whatever flavor you may be), etc. A special thanks to the "Creationism" nutters who've brought a new age of enlightenment into the classroom.

Since you don't bother to specify a particular group whom you are thanking for these condemnations, and your thread is about your hatred of and bigotry toward Christianity in general, I must assume you are thanking ALL Christians for these things. Unfortunately for your narrow little worldview, not all Christian sects condemn birth control, sex for the clergy, people who aren't part of their own group, or even abortion. I do like, however, that you also manage at this point to sweepingly generalize that anyone who doesn't share your worldview is irrational. Again, two for one. I have to commend your efficiency, even if your tolerance and open-mindedness are sadly lacking.

Fair enough. I should have said "some" not implied "all" christians.

Excuse me if I don't thank you for noticing that you were talking out of your ass.

6. How is it "Christian" to deny food or medical care to a child if their parents won't first agree to convert to your religion? If your religion is so great, won't the people whom you serve eventually get curious about it? Why's it okay to coerce people into relinquishing their culture and their beliefs in favor of yours because you have the economic upper hand?

Obviously - to everyone but a purblind bigot, that is - not all (or even most) Christian sects deny medical care to their members. In addition, despite the fact that you've decided no one could EVER be converted except by force, not all (or even most) Christian sects use coercion, economic or otherwise. Nice generalization, though.

It is true of Catholics. I am surprised it is (claimed) not to be true of other christian sects. In both cases, this only happens in foreign ministries, although here in the US it is not uncommon to be forced to pray before receiving whatever assistance the charity dispenses.

Are you at all aware that Catholics are just one out of many, MANY Christian churches in the world? I realize that you have some serious, deep-seated psychological issues with Catholicism, which would be much better taken up between you and a therapist rather than on an Internet message board, but do try to lift your eyes from your obsession just a bit and notice the bigger picture.

8. How is it possible to reconcile, in your own mind, all the hatred and aggression undertaken in the name of religion with any message of any major religion? You know that it is wrong. How is it okay to commit Major Evil as long as you invoke God's name?

I'm really fascinated by your leap in logic that tells you that all Christians rationalize and justify evil in God's name. More generalization AND offensive insult rolled together. Tell me again why I'm supposed to view your posts as a sincere, rational curiosity and not a bitter, hate-filled attack?

I think "bitter, hate-filled attack" is too strong. But look over history, Cecille...the Crusades, the Spanish Inquisition, the betrayal of Italian Jews, etc. Unless you happen to belong to a christian sect that was invented last week, all the major ones have blood on their hands.

I think "bitter, hate-filled attack" is too mild, but I was in a hurry, and no stronger words were coming to mind at the moment.

I'm not interested in debating your ignorant OP and opinions with you, because that would simply serve to legitimize you and make you feel like you're a serious poster instead of a deranged bigot in serious need of some couch time at the local psych ward. My point is simply that you do nothing BUT generalize, and while I'm at it, to make sure you understand that you are a nasty, petty, hate-filled bigot, whatever lies you want to tell yourself.

9. How can you seriously believe that a man in a red jump suit "tempts" you? Why can't you just accept responsibility for the evil you do? You're human -- no one has to tempt you. You're full of evil, selfish impulses and can only control them through the wonders of social conditioning, like the rest of us.

By "man in a red jump suit", I assume you are invoking a child's rendering of Satan. So aside from offensively denigrating our beliefs by expressing them on a puerile level, you have ALSO generalized the belief in Satan as an actual, sentient being to all Christians, despite the fact that not all Christian sects believe that. Congratulations.

Alrighty then. According to you, there are christians who do not believe in the Trinity, who don't believe Jesus is God and who don't believe in Satan. Pardon me for not realizing this.

Not just "according to me", twit. According to anyone who isn't blinded by mental disease or defect and has actually bothered to acquaint himself with the reality of the wide diversity of Christian denominations and doctrines.

Once again, I will not do the research for you that you should have done before opening your flapping piehole, but I will point you in the right direction.

Unitarians
Some Lutherans
Some Anglicans/Episcopalians

Those are just actual churches teaching that Satan is a metaphor (The Lutheran, Anglican, and Episcopalian churches officially adhere to a doctrine of literalism on the subject). In addition, many individual Christians, whatever their church's official doctrine, believe that Satan is merely a metaphor.

10. Why do you need a "promise of Heaven" to do what you know is right? Don't you have a conscience? When you do the wrong thing, don't you feel that?

I see. So ALL Christians do the right thing simply for the "promise of Heaven". Rude, offensive, AND sweepingly general.

Why's it rude or offensive? Are you saying there are also christians who don't believe in an after-life?

You seriously have to ask me what's offensive about what you said? Seriously?!

By the way, I don't belong to any organized religion but I singled out Christians because I have been treated to their irrationality somewhat more often. No Muslim or Jew or Buddist, etc. has ever prosletized to me.

All Christians don't prosletize [sic]. If Muslims don't prosletize [sic], how do you suppose they get so many prison converts, genius? Maybe they're not prosletizing [sic] you simply because you don't know any, ever consider that?

WTF is up with all the [sic], Cecille? I have no misspelled words in that sentence.

The word is "proselytize", not "prosletize".

Anyway, what difference does it make whether Muslims proletize to prison inmates? How does that alter the truth of what I wrote? BTW, Jews not only do not proletize, they discourage conversion.

Um, it makes a difference because you act as though Christians are the only ones who do it. The truth is, you just don't have a very wide or varied acquaintance, but can't seem to resist projecting it onto all of humanity as "the way things are".

I can assure you that as long as I'm alive, any generalization as to the desire of Christians to convert you and save your soul will be false. I'm sure it makes me a bad Christian and I will have to answer to God for it, but I find myself really not caring one way or the other.

Is this a long winded way of telling me that you hope I go to hell? How completely charming. Goodness knows, the example you've set on this thread should be attractive to many....if justifying hate and anger is their aim.

No, telling you to go to Hell would imply that I care one way or another where you go or what you do, and I frankly don't.

You clearly still flatter yourself that my aim is to convert you and other like-minded, smug jackasses touting yourselves as the pinnacle of knowledge and sophistication around here. Please take this opportunity to get the smuck over yourself. God has many nice, friendly followers who will be glad to smile and pretend along with you that you're a good person despite all evidence to the contrary. He also has people like me, who are built to give you the good, hard shot of reality to the ass when you need it, and to defend the nice, friendly folks who can't do it for themselves.

If there's a problem with me acting according to my God-given nature, then it is for HIM to address it. It most assuredly is not for the likes of YOU to even CONSIDER doing. The immensity of your sheer GALL in presuming to tell me how to be something you've already declared that you are not is staggering. How do you fit that bloated, inflamed ego through doors?

 

[Madeline]

Project much, Cecille?

 

[CurveLight]

So you're saying Jesus was masochistic because he refused wine.........it's an endless circle because you refuse to stop confusing accepting responsibility for masochism.

No, it was masochistic to knowingly refuse an anesthetic, which just so happen to be in the wine. You continue to claim there is confusion with the concepts of "accepting responsibility" and "masochism". The two have nothing to do with one another. They are completely unrelated. Saying anything about accepting responsibility holds no sway on whether a situation is masochistic in nature or not. It is you who originally brought up the idea of "accepting responsibility", and you who continues to use it as a justification for a concept which is completely unrelated to it. Once again, unrelated things are unrelated.

Was Dr. King a masochist? He would get beat up on the street for his activism yet he kept on with his fight against social injustices. Simple yes or no question.

Yes! Absolutely! Getting beaten and then going back for more is a masochistic tendency. Did you not see my explanation of Rocky 7? It's ALMOST like you're catching on now.

I suspect you will return, stating that King did it for great and justified reasons. That's true. And yet unrelated things are still unrelated. It's clear you still don't understand the idea of masochism, and yet you keep talking.

Secondly, it is not true the torture and murder of Jesus is celebrated. If anything, it is regarded with deep sorrow, but strawmen are what keep you whiners going so don't stop now.

It is an event venerated by millions of people, that has spurred worship of it, movies to be made of it, and general joy that Jesus removed sin. Let's now contrast that to the analogy you like so much, which has continued to work against you. No one celebrates MLK's death. People venerate his actions in life. Compare that to Jesus, where people celebrate both his actions in life, and the passion. People truly believe that a great thing came as a result of his prolonged torture and death. This is sick reasoning, and absolutely speaks of masochistic overtones. But again, this is a concept which you needed to go to the dictionary to first figure out, and you didn't even look at all the meanings of the word, so I can't really expect you to understand it now.

Okay. You're just too fucking dumb to understand fighting for Civil Rights doesn't mean one has "masochistic" tendencies even if it entails physical violence.

 

[CurveLight]

CurveLight wrote:

kind of like how you elevate your own irrationalities to try and justify your broad brushing of Christians. Why do you practice what you also condemn?

Okay, I'm game. I disagree that I have made sweeping generalizations about christians.

I don't care if you agree or not. Your op proves otherwise. Boring.

 

[Newby]

So lemme see if I understand you correctly. Christians must be accommodated to such a degree that non-christians should not even voice their beliefs?

Maybe you can learn to voice your beliefs without bashing others in the process? Perhaps that what people take offense too, not that you're voicing your beliefs.

 

[Madeline]

Alrighty then. I feel thoroughly spanked for my bad manners.

Though I suspect no matter how I phrased it, an Op saying "I find some of this ridiculous" would give offense to some.

 

[Madeline]

CurveLight wrote:

kind of like how you elevate your own irrationalities to try and justify your broad brushing of Christians. Why do you practice what you also condemn?

Okay, I'm game. I disagree that I have made sweeping generalizations about christians.

I don't care if you agree or not. Your op proves otherwise. Boring.

Only if you attribute the defects I perceive in the religion to all its adherents.

 

[Madeline]

Yanno guys, I am beginning to sense that it is criticism of christianity, not the tone or the manners or any perceived criticism of its adherents, that really upsets you. Tell me -- why's the subject so touchy we cannot discuss it without so much angst?

Are you this careful not to offend others?

 

[Newby]

So, in essence what I get from some of the christians on this thread is: fuck off and die. And that just leads me back to my earlier question: why are the christians (some) so angry at the non-christians?

I know this will sound odd, but at times you guys seem a bit envious to me.

I think sometimes people let their emotions get in the way which shouldn't be the case.

I suspect that some christians have never looked long and hard at their faith; that they have merely followed the path laid down for them by others (most likely parents) and resent those of us who walked away after full immersion. What seems to escape notice is that the search we undertook was not without price, and that no one has bolted the door on their own intelligence and curiosity but them.

Doubtless after a quest, some would return to the faith of their childhood, even if only for "emotional" reasons. I happen to think, though, that there'd be more acceptance of those who do not as well as contentment among those who do, if there was a bit less pre-programmed, knee-jerk adherence to any system of belief.

You still just don't get it. Or perhaps it's willful stupidity, it has to be one or the other.
I do not resent you or your beliefs or lack thereof. I resent the lack of respect for my beliefs, the constant bashing against my beliefs that people like you feel compelled to do to somehow make themselves feel better. You want respect, but you're unwilling to reciprocate. Not only are you unwilling to reciprocate, you go on the offensive, as shown in the op, to attack and degrade and then act all surprised and hurt when people are offended by your degrading their beliefs. Do you get it yet? YOU are the instigator here, YOU are the one that degraded and put down Christianity, and then claim that christians somehow 'resent' you for your beliefs. What I don't understand is why you hide? Why not just bash christianity outright and be proud of it and quit hiding behind the supid little games?