Why I Could Never Be GOP or Libertarian

[M14 Shooter]

In 1980, before Reagan, how many hours of labor did it take to purchase the following at minimum wage?

A color TV
The lowest priced new car
A 1,000 sq ft house (Average house size was 980 at the time)
A loaf of white bread
A pound of hamburger
A sirloin steak
A stereo system
A long distance call from NY to California
A coach airline ticket from NY to California
A gallon of milk
A gallon of gas

Then how can you explain this astonishing rise in the median household income:
1979: $46,074
2010: $49,445
Median Household Income History in the United States

Well, after looking all of the data and not cherry picking so I can invent a point, I'd blame it on The Obama's mal-management of the economy.

2010 $49,445
2009 $50,599
2008 $50,939
2007 $52,823
2006 $52,124
2005 $51,739
2004 $51,174
2003 $51,353
2002 $51,398
2001 $52,005
2000 $53,164
1999 $53,252
1998 $51,944
1997 $50,123
1996 $49,112
1995 $48,408
1994 $46,937
1993 $46,419
1992 $46,646
1991 $47,032
1990 $48,423
1989 $49,076
1988 $48,216
1987 $47,848
1986 $47,256
1985 $45,640
1984 $44,802
1983 $43,453
1982 $43,758
1981 $43,876
1980 $44,616
1979 $46,074
1978 $46,202
1977 $44,481
1976 $44,201
1975 $43,479
1974 $44,649
1973 $46,109
1972 $45,196
1971 $43,340
1970 $43,766
1969 $44,108
1968 $42,527
1967 $40,770

 

[Full-Auto]

In 1980, before Reagan, how many hours of labor did it take to purchase the following at minimum wage?

A color TV
The lowest priced new car
A 1,000 sq ft house (Average house size was 980 at the time)
A loaf of white bread
A pound of hamburger
A sirloin steak
A stereo system
A long distance call from NY to California
A coach airline ticket from NY to California
A gallon of milk
A gallon of gas

Then how can you explain this astonishing rise in the median household income:
1979: $46,074
2010: $49,445
Median Household Income History in the United States

Really? Inflation adjusted? I can skew anything like that.

 

[ilia25]

Well, after looking all of the data and not cherry picking so I can invent a point, I'd blame it on The Obama's mal-management of the economy.

2010 $49,445
2009 $50,599
2008 $50,939
2007 $52,823

And Obama was responsible for the drop in 2008?

 

[ThinkCritically]

Really? Inflation adjusted? I can skew anything like that.

More like inflation skews all the numbers if not taken into account for. If you don't think inflation changes the value of numbers...then....you aren't thinking.

 

[M.D. Rawlings]

Listening to everything the GOP and Libertarians have to say, I have to say I viamently disagree with the direction they want to take America. They are a very selfish group.

Paul Ryan, the father of a Republican budget initiative that seeks to destroy Medicare and Social Security has continually invoked the name of Ayn Rand as his philosophical mentor and guide. Many other Republicans have do so too. They are embracing a philosophy which, according to Ayn Rand herself, is one of selfishness and is against all forms of Spirituality. The question any thoughtful Americans must ask themselves is: “Is this the America we want?”

And how do they get evangelicals to go along with them is beyond me.

Its a very selfish every man for himself mentality.

And Libertarians don't believe in the Commons. What are the Commons?

The Commons are resources that are owned by all of us. That includes the Grand Canyon, oil rights, power companies, roads, public airwaves, schools, etc.

Here is how they think. Libertarians think if we all own the land on which our sheep graze, we will each add one too many sheep until we destroy the land for future generations. That We the People can't manage the commons.

Libertarians think that if one person owns the land and charged everyone else grazing fees, he would be more committed to preserving it for the future than a village of farmers.

I disagree.

In short, you're a collectivist ninny--no doubt a product of the public education system, a mind that has never had an original thought in its life and does not understand that the foundation of general liberty is private property. The destructive, debilitating results of communal economics are both readily self-evident and well-established by historical experience.

Where constitutionalists would take this country?! LOL! It is the left that is taking this country away from its roots of individual liberty and self-determination, and undermining the nation's stability with its collectivist tribalism.

 

[M14 Shooter]

Well, after looking all of the data and not cherry picking so I can invent a point, I'd blame it on The Obama's mal-management of the economy.

2010 $49,445
2009 $50,599
2008 $50,939
2007 $52,823

And Obama was responsible for the drop in 2008?

You posted 1979 v 2010.
I corrected your point by putting it in context.

 

[ilia25]

Really? Inflation adjusted? I can skew anything like that.

I know you can. That is why I prefer BLS data.

 

[ilia25]

Well, after looking all of the data and not cherry picking so I can invent a point, I'd blame it on The Obama's mal-management of the economy.

2010 $49,445
2009 $50,599
2008 $50,939
2007 $52,823

And Obama was responsible for the drop in 2008?

You posted 1979 v 2010.
I corrected your point by putting it in context.

I don't know what point you think you've corrected, but the facts remain. For the past 30 years the median incomes stagnated, while the incomes of the richest 1% increased almost 4 times. And no, it was not Obama's fault.

 

[Crackerjack]

Yep unregulated banks caused the banking crises, also unregulated utilities caused costs to increase by 30%

Unregulated banking?

Seriously, buy a clue.

 

[sealybobo]

I disagree.

.

A new aristocracy is taking over not just the United States of America but also the world.

This is more than just a tax cut story. It's about a fundamental shift in power and wealth from average people and the governments they had formed to represent them to corporate aristocracies.

Starting with the Reagan/Bush administration, when, in 1983, corporate taxes revenues were slashed to a low not seen since 1929. GW just took it a step further. Romney will finish the job.

Because it's well understood that corporations use our tax-funded institutions at least as heavily as do citizens, they've traditionally been taxed at similar rates. For example, the top corporate tax rate in the US was 48% during the Carter administration, down from the a peak of 53% during the Eisenhower and Kennedy years. Today it stands at 35%,

But in May of 2001 Bush administration Treasury Secretary Paul O'Neill suggested there should be no corporate income tax whatsoever.

A cornerstone of the conservative movement to consolidate power in the hands of a wealthy corporate elite, the campaign to end corporate income taxes altogether - and leave the rest of us to pick up the entire tab first picked up steam when Reagan came to power in 1980.

The December 1, 2004 Washington Times article, titled "End Corporate Income Tax," reflected a powerful and growing movement not just in the United States but across the world.

Nobles need not pay taxes. Why would I vote for that? Because they are job creators? So fucking what? Time for people making over a million a year to pay their fair share of taxes like they use to.

 

[M14 Shooter]

And Obama was responsible for the drop in 2008?

You posted 1979 v 2010.
I corrected your point by putting it in context.

I don't know what point you think you've corrected, but the facts remain. For the past 30 years the median incomes stagnated

The median incime in 2008 was 14.65% higher than in 1979. That's "stagnant"?

 

[PLYMCO_PILGRIM]

Listening to everything the GOP and Libertarians have to say, I have to say I viamently disagree with the direction they want to take America. They are a very selfish group.

Paul Ryan, the father of a Republican budget initiative that seeks to destroy Medicare and Social Security has continually invoked the name of Ayn Rand as his philosophical mentor and guide. Many other Republicans have do so too. They are embracing a philosophy which, according to Ayn Rand herself, is one of selfishness and is against all forms of Spirituality. The question any thoughtful Americans must ask themselves is: “Is this the America we want?”

And how do they get evangelicals to go along with them is beyond me.

Its a very selfish every man for himself mentality.

And Libertarians don't believe in the Commons. What are the Commons?

The Commons are resources that are owned by all of us. That includes the Grand Canyon, oil rights, power companies, roads, public airwaves, schools, etc.

Here is how they think. Libertarians think if we all own the land on which our sheep graze, we will each add one too many sheep until we destroy the land for future generations. That We the People can't manage the commons.

Libertarians think that if one person owns the land and charged everyone else grazing fees, he would be more committed to preserving it for the future than a village of farmers.

I disagree.

Before you disagree you should talk with someone who doesn't have all those misconceptions you posted about republicans/libertarians.

You are disagreeing with incorrect portrayals.

 

[Crackerjack]

Listening to everything the GOP and Libertarians have to say, I have to say I viamently disagree with the direction they want to take America. They are a very selfish group.

Paul Ryan, the father of a Republican budget initiative that seeks to destroy Medicare and Social Security has continually invoked the name of Ayn Rand as his philosophical mentor and guide. Many other Republicans have do so too. They are embracing a philosophy which, according to Ayn Rand herself, is one of selfishness and is against all forms of Spirituality. The question any thoughtful Americans must ask themselves is: “Is this the America we want?”

And how do they get evangelicals to go along with them is beyond me.

Its a very selfish every man for himself mentality.

And Libertarians don't believe in the Commons. What are the Commons?

The Commons are resources that are owned by all of us. That includes the Grand Canyon, oil rights, power companies, roads, public airwaves, schools, etc.

Here is how they think. Libertarians think if we all own the land on which our sheep graze, we will each add one too many sheep until we destroy the land for future generations. That We the People can't manage the commons.

Libertarians think that if one person owns the land and charged everyone else grazing fees, he would be more committed to preserving it for the future than a village of farmers.

I disagree.

Before you disagree you should talk with someone who doesn't have all those misconceptions you posted about republicans/libertarians.

You are disagreeing with incorrect portrayals.

He's undefeated against straw men. I wouldn't change weight classes if I were him, either.

 

[ilia25]

You posted 1979 v 2010.
I corrected your point by putting it in context.

I don't know what point you think you've corrected, but the facts remain. For the past 30 years the median incomes stagnated

The median incime in 2008 was 14.65% higher than in 1979. That's "stagnant"?

And the real GDP per capita grew by 68%. It means if it were not for increasing inequality, the median incomes would grow 4-5 times faster.

 

[PLYMCO_PILGRIM]

Listening to everything the GOP and Libertarians have to say, I have to say I viamently disagree with the direction they want to take America. They are a very selfish group.

Paul Ryan, the father of a Republican budget initiative that seeks to destroy Medicare and Social Security has continually invoked the name of Ayn Rand as his philosophical mentor and guide. Many other Republicans have do so too. They are embracing a philosophy which, according to Ayn Rand herself, is one of selfishness and is against all forms of Spirituality. The question any thoughtful Americans must ask themselves is: “Is this the America we want?”

And how do they get evangelicals to go along with them is beyond me.

Its a very selfish every man for himself mentality.

And Libertarians don't believe in the Commons. What are the Commons?

The Commons are resources that are owned by all of us. That includes the Grand Canyon, oil rights, power companies, roads, public airwaves, schools, etc.

Here is how they think. Libertarians think if we all own the land on which our sheep graze, we will each add one too many sheep until we destroy the land for future generations. That We the People can't manage the commons.

Libertarians think that if one person owns the land and charged everyone else grazing fees, he would be more committed to preserving it for the future than a village of farmers.

I disagree.

Before you disagree you should talk with someone who doesn't have all those misconceptions you posted about republicans/libertarians.

You are disagreeing with incorrect portrayals.

He's undefeated against straw men. I wouldn't change weight classes if I were him, either.

i guess you are right, he never did respond

 

[Uncensored2008]

Yes like all conservatives you don't care about reality

So your reality is defined by Thinkprogress?

It shows.

The recession ended right after the New Deal started. In fact the period during the New Deal saw the largest economic growth ever recorded in America

Well, there you go folks, there never was a great depression. The "recession" ended once his holiness was in office....

ROFL

The effect of having hate sites define your reality.

You're a fucking moron.

 

[Uncensored2008]

Then how can you explain this astonishing rise in the median household income:
1979: $46,074
2010: $49,445
Median Household Income History in the United States

How do YOU explain purchasing power?

 

[PLYMCO_PILGRIM]

Then how can you explain this astonishing rise in the median household income:
1979: $46,074
2010: $49,445
Median Household Income History in the United States

How do YOU explain purchasing power?

Those 2 numbers actualy show a decline in the median household income, when adjusted for inflation.

 

[Uncensored2008]

Really? Inflation adjusted? I can skew anything like that.

Which is why purchasing power is the only valid measure.

Fiat currency is fluid by nature.

When I was a kid, steak was for rich people, sounds quaint now - that is how much things have changed.

Much of the change is due to technology, the digital revolution cut the costs of complex goods by magnitudes. Car prices have declined 60% in real dollars since 1980, while offering more. Why? Because processing is better using automation, and subsystems are cheaper with electronics. Carburetors have been replaced by digital fuel injection. Mechanical cam driven ignition has been replaced by computer based ignition. On down the line.

Cars are just one example, there are thousands. The average person lives lives that were reserved for the very wealthy only a generation ago.

Pointing out products forces people to stop and contemplate reality. Partisan hacks won't, they have an agenda and are not interested in fact, but average people ponder what was possible then and now, and realize how much better off we are.

You know who had a car phone in 1980? The CEO's of fortune 500's, that's about it. Beluga Caviar was $20,000 an ounce in 1980.

What is it today?

[ame=http://www.amazon.com/Russian-Beluga-Caviar-1-Oz/dp/B002824PWC]1 Oz. Beluga Caviar: Amazon.com: Grocery & Gourmet Food[/ame]

Yes, mostly that's due to the fall of the Soviet Union. But the middle class CAN afford it now, no way they could in 1980.

 

[sealybobo]

Then how can you explain this astonishing rise in the median household income:
1979: $46,074
2010: $49,445
Median Household Income History in the United States

How do YOU explain purchasing power?

The earnings of male workers in the middle of the income ladder are lower today than they were almost 40 years ago. In 1973, the median male worker earned just over $49,000 when adjusted for inflation, while in 2010 that worker made about $1,500 less.

Yet, in the same period, the output of the economy has more than doubled, and the productivity of workers has risen steadily.

meanwhile

“Income inequality in this country is just getting worse. And that is not a recipe for stable economic growth when the rich are getting richer and everybody else is being left behind.

Since 1980, about 5 percent of annual national income has shifted from the middle class to the nation’s richest households. That means the wealthiest 5,934 households last year enjoyed an additional $650 billion.

Disputes over what constitutes economic fairness are moving to center stage amid a near-stagnant U.S. economy saddled with 9.1 percent unemployment yet boasting record corporate profits.

Growing Income Gap May Leave U.S. Vulnerable - Bloomberg