Why I Don't Believe

[sealybobo]

No, I can't choose or decide the evidence is convincing.

I note you are sidestepping the challenge.

Can you decide to accept the evidence and believe Bigfoot exists? Do it, if you think such voices are possible

you chose to decide the evidence was NOT convincing.....you are sidestepping the obvious.....

No, I did not decide. It was not an equal choice. By the standards of evidence I would accept...which apply to everything, and not on a case by case basis...the evidence did not meet the standard. I could not choose to ignore that.

I also chose to decide it was not, but you are well aware there are people who have chosen to believe it is........

If it's a free choice, you should then be able to decide now that it is convincing. That's what you're asking of atheists...that they accept as true something they already decided was not convincing. So how can one change that choice as you're claiming is possible, without new or better evidence? Again, if you think it's so easy to just change such a decision, prove it, and change your belief in something without further convincing or better evidence.

No way, based on the evidence, a god would demand we believe crazy christians or burn in hell. That is clearly their way to guilt/fear people into believing. Look at Gismys. Do you want to go to HELL??? YOUR CHOICE. Can you imagine how many times his parents and preachers said that to him when he was young, impressionable & growing up?

 

[GISMYS]

you chose to decide the evidence was NOT convincing.....you are sidestepping the obvious.....

No, I did not decide. It was not an equal choice. By the standards of evidence I would accept...which apply to everything, and not on a case by case basis...the evidence did not meet the standard. I could not choose to ignore that.

I also chose to decide it was not, but you are well aware there are people who have chosen to believe it is........

If it's a free choice, you should then be able to decide now that it is convincing. That's what you're asking of atheists...that they accept as true something they already decided was not convincing. So how can one change that choice as you're claiming is possible, without new or better evidence? Again, if you think it's so easy to just change such a decision, prove it, and change your belief in something without further convincing or better evidence.

No way, based on the evidence, a god would demand we believe crazy christians or burn in hell. That is clearly their way to guilt/fear people into believing. Look at Gismys. Do you want to go to HELL??? YOUR CHOICE. Can you imagine how many times his parents and preachers said that to him when he was young, impressionable & growing up?

YES!!! HOW SAD YOU WERE never given the truth as a child if you had maybe you would not have grew up and be a total ignorant blinded FOOL!!!

 

[Rationalist1016]

You and dopes like Gismys are telling people like us basically impossible stories and then telling us if we don't believe your fairy tales we will burn in hell. Get it through your thick fucking skull stupid. Your story is just a way of scaring ignorant people into believing your outlandish stories.

and yet, you guys continue to whine that God won't let you into heaven even though you've made that choice.....and that THAT is the reason he is not worthy of your belief.....if its just an untrue story and you aren't scared, why complain?.....

Who the FUCK is complaining that god won't let us into heaven? Do you see how delusional these theists are everyone? They hear and believe whatever the fuck they want to hear and believe. We're here trying to explain to this fool that god(s) don't really exist and there is no heaven and hell and this retard thinks we're complaining that we're not in the club.

I've read what other people have wrote. How can you or a god(s) ask us or expect us to believe your wild stories?

And if I tell you the Muslim story and say if you don't believe you'll go to hell, will you believe? How about the Jehova or Mormon stories or Greek God stories or any of the other religions? You'll know exactly why their stories are unbelievable and silly, but you can't do the same for your own religion. Adam and Eve, talking to snakes, living 800 years, parting water, the noah story, virgin birth, rose from the dead, performed miracles.

And we either have to believe you and that cock sucker Gismys or go to hell?

I agree completely............except, I am not trying to convince anyone that god and heaven DON'T exist. I am purely trying to explain why "I" don't believe it. As to what the OP says. I don't really care what others believe, until it effects ME. Then we have a problem. The whole point of these discussions, I THOUGHT, was to discuss "why we don't believe". But then we get caught up in the definition/usage of words and then we aren't even discussing the subject anymore. Because some believers are SO in the bubble of religion and belief, that they can't even comprehend the idea of not believing. Thus, those of us that don't believe, MUST be just digging in our heals and saying we don't want to believe.
That's just not the case. I would LOVE to believe that there is some true to all that. But without seeing any evidence, or even good argument for it, it's just not a believe proposition.

 

[BreezeWood]

No way, based on the evidence, a god would demand we believe crazy christians or burn in hell. That is clearly their way to guilt/fear people into believing. Look at Gismys. Do you want to go to HELL??? YOUR CHOICE. Can you imagine how many times his parents and preachers said that to him when he was young, impressionable & growing up?

based on the evidence


based on the evidence of self indulgence by the Idolaters is no reason to conclude Atheism.

from whence we came is unknown, our physiology operates without our knowledge and for an Atheist to conclude there is not a Spirit for each living creature is likewise a symptom of resigned self indulgence the same as Christianity.

the Everlasting exists and something of us will remain a part of it one way or another, why not our Spirit.

.

 

[Rationalist1016]

No, I did not decide. It was not an equal choice. By the standards of evidence I would accept...which apply to everything, and not on a case by case basis...the evidence did not meet the standard. I could not choose to ignore that.


If it's a free choice, you should then be able to decide now that it is convincing. That's what you're asking of atheists...that they accept as true something they already decided was not convincing. So how can one change that choice as you're claiming is possible, without new or better evidence? Again, if you think it's so easy to just change such a decision, prove it, and change your belief in something without further convincing or better evidence.

No way, based on the evidence, a god would demand we believe crazy christians or burn in hell. That is clearly their way to guilt/fear people into believing. Look at Gismys. Do you want to go to HELL??? YOUR CHOICE. Can you imagine how many times his parents and preachers said that to him when he was young, impressionable & growing up?

YES!!! HOW SAD YOU WERE never given the truth as a child if you had maybe you would not have grew up and be a total ignorant blinded FOOL!!!

I was told all the same stories you were as a child. Difference is, as I got older, and applied the logic and reason that I applied to the tooth fairy, santa and the boogie man, I can to the same conclusion about the god story. Once something can be demonstrated to me that any of those characters exist, I will be a believer.

 

[pinqy]

No way, based on the evidence, a god would demand we believe crazy christians or burn in hell. That is clearly their way to guilt/fear people into believing. Look at Gismys. Do you want to go to HELL??? YOUR CHOICE. Can you imagine how many times his parents and preachers said that to him when he was young, impressionable & growing up?

based on the evidence


based on the evidence of self indulgence by the Idolaters is no reason to conclude Atheism..

I agree. But the lack of an objective definition or objective method of testing the existence of any gods plus the known inconsistencies and contradictions of those who do believe in gods is amble reason to reject all propositions of gods.

 

[GISMYS]

GOD TELLS US WHY YOU DON'T BELIEVE==YES!!! ALL PEOPLE MUST DECIDE TO BELIEVE OR REJECT GOD,God gave you CHOICE====God shows his anger from heaven against all sinful, evil men who push away the truth from them. 19 For the truth about God is known to them instinctively;God has put this knowledge in their hearts. 20 Since earliest times men have seen the earth and sky and all God made, and have known of his existence and great eternal power. So they will have no excuse when they stand before God at Judgment Day.

21 Yes, they knew about him all right, but they wouldn’t admit it or worship him or even thank him for all his daily care. And after a while they began to think up silly ideas of what God was like and what he wanted them to do. The result was that their foolish minds became dark and confused. 22 Claiming themselves to be wise without God, they became utter fools instead.
Romans 1:18-22

 

[BreezeWood]

No way, based on the evidence, a god would demand we believe crazy christians or burn in hell. That is clearly their way to guilt/fear people into believing. Look at Gismys. Do you want to go to HELL??? YOUR CHOICE. Can you imagine how many times his parents and preachers said that to him when he was young, impressionable & growing up?

based on the evidence


based on the evidence of self indulgence by the Idolaters is no reason to conclude Atheism..

I agree. But the lack of an objective definition or objective method of testing the existence of any gods plus the known inconsistencies and contradictions of those who do believe in gods is amble reason to reject all propositions of gods.

... is amble reason to reject all propositions of gods.


really, does that exclude life after physiological death and if so, the existing Spirits are not organized ?

.

 

[PostmodernProph]

No, I can't choose or decide the evidence is convincing.

I note you are sidestepping the challenge.

Can you decide to accept the evidence and believe Bigfoot exists? Do it, if you think such voices are possible

you chose to decide the evidence was NOT convincing.....you are sidestepping the obvious.....

No, I did not decide. It was not an equal choice. By the standards of evidence I would accept...which apply to everything, and not on a case by case basis...the evidence did not meet the standard. I could not choose to ignore that.

I also chose to decide it was not, but you are well aware there are people who have chosen to believe it is........

If it's a free choice, you should then be able to decide now that it is convincing. That's what you're asking of atheists...that they accept as true something they already decided was not convincing. So how can one change that choice as you're claiming is possible, without new or better evidence? Again, if you think it's so easy to just change such a decision, prove it, and change your belief in something without further convincing or better evidence.

your error is in trying to imply I have to decide its convincing.....I have made my decision.....I chose not to believe that the evidence for Big Foot is convincing.....I don't ask atheists to make any particular decision.....I do think they should not continue to pretend they haven't made a decision.... I am not asking you to change your decision........the argument we are having is simply to get you to admit you've made a decision not to get you to make a new one....

 

[PostmodernProph]

You and dopes like Gismys are telling people like us basically impossible stories and then telling us if we don't believe your fairy tales we will burn in hell. Get it through your thick fucking skull stupid. Your story is just a way of scaring ignorant people into believing your outlandish stories.

and yet, you guys continue to whine that God won't let you into heaven even though you've made that choice.....and that THAT is the reason he is not worthy of your belief.....if its just an untrue story and you aren't scared, why complain?.....

Who the FUCK is complaining that god won't let us into heaven?

And we either have to believe you and that cock sucker Gismys or go to hell?

and there it is again....

 

[PostmodernProph]

But without seeing any evidence, or even good argument for it, it's just not a believe proposition.

and so you have chosen....

 

[pinqy]

But without seeing any evidence, or even good argument for it, it's just not a believe proposition.

and so you have chosen....

Explain exactly how any other choice would be possible.

 

[sealybobo]

and yet, you guys continue to whine that God won't let you into heaven even though you've made that choice.....and that THAT is the reason he is not worthy of your belief.....if its just an untrue story and you aren't scared, why complain?.....

Who the FUCK is complaining that god won't let us into heaven? Do you see how delusional these theists are everyone? They hear and believe whatever the fuck they want to hear and believe. We're here trying to explain to this fool that god(s) don't really exist and there is no heaven and hell and this retard thinks we're complaining that we're not in the club.

I've read what other people have wrote. How can you or a god(s) ask us or expect us to believe your wild stories?

And if I tell you the Muslim story and say if you don't believe you'll go to hell, will you believe? How about the Jehova or Mormon stories or Greek God stories or any of the other religions? You'll know exactly why their stories are unbelievable and silly, but you can't do the same for your own religion. Adam and Eve, talking to snakes, living 800 years, parting water, the noah story, virgin birth, rose from the dead, performed miracles.

And we either have to believe you and that cock sucker Gismys or go to hell?

I agree completely............except, I am not trying to convince anyone that god and heaven DON'T exist. I am purely trying to explain why "I" don't believe it. As to what the OP says. I don't really care what others believe, until it effects ME. Then we have a problem. The whole point of these discussions, I THOUGHT, was to discuss "why we don't believe". But then we get caught up in the definition/usage of words and then we aren't even discussing the subject anymore. Because some believers are SO in the bubble of religion and belief, that they can't even comprehend the idea of not believing. Thus, those of us that don't believe, MUST be just digging in our heals and saying we don't want to believe.
That's just not the case. I would LOVE to believe that there is some true to all that. But without seeing any evidence, or even good argument for it, it's just not a believe proposition.

I would love to believe it too. In fact, for a long time when I still believed in god but abandoned any and all organized religions I always told myself that believing in god can't be a requirement. That is clearly what the men who invented the religion said though in order to stop people from even looking at other religions. I always wrestled with that growing up and I never believed all non christians go to hell. NEVER. So I guess I never believed the christian story even when I called myself a christian.

So for a long time I still believed in god and just figured no one knows when it comes to heaven and hell and those things. THEN it dawned on me with a help from a friend that the entire concept of god is made up. He showed me a bunch of great atheists and I even remember when I was in college George Carlin's anti religious rants made a lot of sense to me.

I guess I was never fully brainwashed like someone like Gismys is. Not even close. Too smart to fall for it. I know there are a lot of guys in his church who don't buy it either but they go along to get along and church is a great place to meet women so they say they are christians but are they really? Do they really know what all that involves?

P.S. I am here to kill all organized religions. Jesus is dead and christianity is just 1 of 1000 religions that came before or after. I don't want another religion to take its place either. I think theists need to go into the closet. You can't be president if you believe in gods. I want a scientific smart future not the same old thousands of years of being controlled by the rich because we are stupid sheep who will believe anything. Religion is the gauge. If we'll believe this we'll believe anything. Religion needs to at least go in the closet. ISIS is doing a good job in Iraq. After they take care of the christians we should go after the muslims.

 

[indiajo]

If we'll believe this we'll believe anything.

Cudos. That is exactly the point. And the purpose.

 

[oldfart]

I agree completely............except, I am not trying to convince anyone that god and heaven DON'T exist. I am purely trying to explain why "I" don't believe it. As to what the OP says. I don't really care what others believe, until it effects ME. Then we have a problem. The whole point of these discussions, I THOUGHT, was to discuss "why we don't believe". But then we get caught up in the definition/usage of words and then we aren't even discussing the subject anymore. Because some believers are SO in the bubble of religion and belief, that they can't even comprehend the idea of not believing. Thus, those of us that don't believe, MUST be just digging in our heals and saying we don't want to believe.
That's just not the case. I would LOVE to believe that there is some true to all that. But without seeing any evidence, or even good argument for it, it's just not a believe proposition.

I understand the frustration. The biggest part of the problem is that true believers have an image of non-believers (in their chosen flavor of koolaid) as wicked libertines. To a born-again Charismatic, the run of the mill Methodist gets lumped together with atheists. The common denominator is that all that do not believe as they do must be wrong. In my experience most "atheists" do have a belief system. Because true believers know that the other beliefs are wrong, they really don't waste any time understanding them. Given this world view, no discussion is possible.

Personally I subscribe to a school of Philosophical Taoism that holds that personified deities are human constructions created for purposes of social control. The Abrahamic religions with a deity that demonstrates capriciousness and is responsive to cajolery and bribery invites bad behavior. This is a prime example of where asking the wrong question leads to cataclysmic results. The question all Abrahamic religions seek to answer is "What does God want me to do?" and the answer often seems to fly in the face of reason and common morality. Abraham must sacrifice his son? Really? From slavery to genocide there is not a crime against humanity than has not been justified by the Abrahamic canon.

So I prefer another question as the starting point: "How would a wise person live their life and treat other people?" That takes you down another path.

 

[PostmodernProph]

But without seeing any evidence, or even good argument for it, it's just not a believe proposition.

and so you have chosen....

Explain exactly how any other choice would be possible.

okay....a person sits down and gets a real squinty look in his eyes...suddenly, they pop open and he says "I have decided!"......

 

[GISMYS]

I agree completely............except, I am not trying to convince anyone that god and heaven DON'T exist. I am purely trying to explain why "I" don't believe it. As to what the OP says. I don't really care what others believe, until it effects ME. Then we have a problem. The whole point of these discussions, I THOUGHT, was to discuss "why we don't believe". But then we get caught up in the definition/usage of words and then we aren't even discussing the subject anymore. Because some believers are SO in the bubble of religion and belief, that they can't even comprehend the idea of not believing. Thus, those of us that don't believe, MUST be just digging in our heals and saying we don't want to believe.
That's just not the case. I would LOVE to believe that there is some true to all that. But without seeing any evidence, or even good argument for it, it's just not a believe proposition.

I understand the frustration. The biggest part of the problem is that true believers have an image of non-believers (in their chosen flavor of koolaid) as wicked libertines. To a born-again Charismatic, the run of the mill Methodist gets lumped together with atheists. The common denominator is that all that do not believe as they do must be wrong. In my experience most "atheists" do have a belief system. Because true believers know that the other beliefs are wrong, they really don't waste any time understanding them. Given this world view, no discussion is possible.

Personally I subscribe to a school of Philosophical Taoism that holds that personified deities are human constructions created for purposes of social control. The Abrahamic religions with a deity that demonstrates capriciousness and is responsive to cajolery and bribery invites bad behavior. This is a prime example of where asking the wrong question leads to cataclysmic results. The question all Abrahamic religions seek to answer is "What does God want me to do?" and the answer often seems to fly in the face of reason and common morality. Abraham must sacrifice his son? Really? From slavery to genocide there is not a crime against humanity than has not been justified by the Abrahamic canon.

So I prefer another question as the starting point: "How would a wise person live their life and treat other people?" That takes you down another path.

GOD tells us all about unbelievers and I believe GOD!!!!=== The man who finds life will find it through trusting God.

18 But God shows his anger from heaven against all sinful, evil men who push away the truth from them. 19 For the truth about God is known to them instinctively; God has put this knowledge in their hearts. 20 Since earliest times men have seen the earth and sky and all God made, and have known of his existence and great eternal power. So they will have no excuse when they stand before God at Judgment Day.

21 Yes, they knew about him all right, but they wouldn’t admit it or worship him or even thank him for all his daily care. And after a while they began to think up silly ideas of what God was like and what he wanted them to do. The result was that their foolish minds became dark and confused. 22 Claiming themselves to be wise without God, they became utter fools instead.
Romans 1:17-22

 

[AtheistBuddah]

and yet, you guys continue to whine that God won't let you into heaven even though you've made that choice.....and that THAT is the reason he is not worthy of your belief.....if its just an untrue story and you aren't scared, why complain?.....

We complain when you try to make lifestyle choices on our behalf based on those stories....

???....what lifestyle choice have I ever made on your behalf?......

Perhaps "you" was not the right choice of words. When I say "you" I mean religious individuals that work to pass laws prohibiting homosexual marriage or religious parents that send their children to facilities to cure them of their homosexuality. By "us" or "our" I mean the individuals that are affected by these acts such as the children that are forced out of their homes and subjected to all kinds of mistreatment or the two people in love that are denied their right to legally bond by the state. Also I use the homosexual issue as an example because it is one of the best and clearest examples of where religious people have wronged their fellow humans.

 

[oldfart]

I agree completely............except, I am not trying to convince anyone that god and heaven DON'T exist. I am purely trying to explain why "I" don't believe it. As to what the OP says. I don't really care what others believe, until it effects ME. Then we have a problem. The whole point of these discussions, I THOUGHT, was to discuss "why we don't believe". But then we get caught up in the definition/usage of words and then we aren't even discussing the subject anymore. Because some believers are SO in the bubble of religion and belief, that they can't even comprehend the idea of not believing. Thus, those of us that don't believe, MUST be just digging in our heals and saying we don't want to believe.
That's just not the case. I would LOVE to believe that there is some true to all that. But without seeing any evidence, or even good argument for it, it's just not a believe proposition.

I understand the frustration. The biggest part of the problem is that true believers have an image of non-believers (in their chosen flavor of koolaid) as wicked libertines. To a born-again Charismatic, the run of the mill Methodist gets lumped together with atheists. The common denominator is that all that do not believe as they do must be wrong. In my experience most "atheists" do have a belief system. Because true believers know that the other beliefs are wrong, they really don't waste any time understanding them. Given this world view, no discussion is possible.

Personally I subscribe to a school of Philosophical Taoism that holds that personified deities are human constructions created for purposes of social control. The Abrahamic religions with a deity that demonstrates capriciousness and is responsive to cajolery and bribery invites bad behavior. This is a prime example of where asking the wrong question leads to cataclysmic results. The question all Abrahamic religions seek to answer is "What does God want me to do?" and the answer often seems to fly in the face of reason and common morality. Abraham must sacrifice his son? Really? From slavery to genocide there is not a crime against humanity than has not been justified by the Abrahamic canon.

So I prefer another question as the starting point: "How would a wise person live their life and treat other people?" That takes you down another path.

GOD tells us all about unbelievers and I believe GOD!!!!

Well I don't believe in your "God" and no amount of Bible thumping is going to change that. Thank you for making my point that trying to have a discussion with a religious Zealot is an exercise in futility. Go sell your daughters into slavery or whatever despicable act you think your holy book tells you to do.

 

[JimBowie1958]

why would God allow people to grow up learning lies and then judge them?

here's where your logic falls apart.....he created them smart enough to figure out the truth, but didn't force it down their throats.....its not his fault you didn't meet up to his expectations.....

Actually, God did force it down people's throats by commanding those who worship him to kill those that don't. Up to an including entire cities if but one person didn't worship God. Ironic we condemn Islam for that yet it's origin is in our Bibles. (Exodus 22:19)

In every case that God in the Bible told anyone to kill another it was due to the behavior of the target, and not merely because they failed to believe in God.

In fact, the God of the OT never told he Jews to convert anyone, they were left to their own devices, though they could convert if they wanted to, they were under no obligation.

The biggest single factor in people not believing in God is their ignorance about God and his track record.

IF you know of a case where the God of the Bible told anyone to slaughter another people simply because they did not believe in Him, please, list it here.

And I know there is no such case with Christianity, though many have claimed to do just that, in Christianity violence was only allowed in cases of self defense and service to the nation.