Why I'm a Democrat

[daveman]

Well, at least you don't cut and run (a shout out to crusaderfrank). Yet, Dave, your effort to spin is so very weak.
I'm not posting to win, in fact I find zero sum politics to be stupid. That said, if you post something as true, you ought to be able to provide some evidence. Otherwise, some (not me) might call you an untruth teller.

What's that word where you condemn someone for something you do yourself?

Do you understand the theory of holes Dave? You have no ideas; you simply accept the unproven theories of the power elite and have now devolved into ad hominem attacks.
Of course that has become a well established response by those of the echo chamber, call those with whom you disagree names, use pejoratives and suggest they are insane.
I, of course, have suggested that a few on your side of the issues are a few bricks shy of a load, but usually with good evidence - their words.
Does that make me a hypocrite? On that issue, of course; but a hypocrite with ideas willing to debate even those whose posts I find prosaic at best, and many times fully thoughtless.

Is it really possible you consider yourself an independent thinker? Good Gaea, why?

You've done nothing but proclaim that nothing but massive government spending will save us. History shows that to be a failure. Look at the USSR. Look at Europe. Look at America, because they're no proof at all that the porkulus package has stimulated the economy, no matter what Obama tells you (Hint: He's wrong. I know, that's an alien thought for you. I'll give you a moment to come to grips).

Yes, you've presented ideas. No, they are not original; no, they are not realistic; and no, they have no chance of success.

If you'd have presented anything realistic, you might have room to complain that others haven't. Trajan showed you why your plan won't work, and you have no rebuttal but "Nuh-UH!!"

I'd tell you to try again, but it's obvious you've topped out.

 

[Wry Catcher]

How come Progressives never realize that America is a lot bigger than Korea or Japan?

Progressives are supposedly so fucking smart but why do they want us to mimic the transportation grid of countries the size of a single state?

Happy Reid wanted to build a high speed rail from Las Vegas to Los Angeles. Has someone pointed out that you can fly the route for $49?

Progressives: they're not as smart as they say they are

Thanks for sharing CF, your inability to see the big picture is amazing.

hey Wry the voters in our State rejected that rail line if i remember correctly....so is Frank alone in this?.....there is no big picture in that particular rail line....

Money was approved by the voters for high speed rail connecting SoCal and the Bay Area. Planning is underway and the destruction of the old rail terminus and building of a new "union station" will begin soon in downtown San Francisco.

 

[Trajan]

Quote:
Huge influx of capital, both from the government and private investors
the government if you have not noticed shot their wad, and we are were exactly? At the cusp of a double dip recession, plus, why would anyone with any bus. acumen put up a dime when they have no idea what the tax rate/burden will be in say even 6 months? Health care costs? etc.





uhm how? lets build angels on pinheads.....do we use coal? natural gas? Solar? Nope, the technology isn't even close, ....wind? Same thing...

The technology is evolving though I suspect some combination of natural gas, electricity and hydrogen will be the future. Diseal locomotives, as you know, are powered by an electric motor.
Building a right of way can precede as the technology improves.
A rail line was planned for the Southern route before the civil war, why not run rail from San Diego to Jacksonville. Bullet trains making way at 200 mph can cross the nation in less than 24 hours.
Electricity can be produced by Nuclear Power, we ought to move forward on the new generation of reactors, another project which would attract investors.


hello, lets step back into the 1930's....that mode of transportation is very slow ( barges) and uses, hello electricity and/hence fossil fuels, we already have railroads, hows that working out? Amtrack AND Conrail, look it up, the gov. took Conrail over and lost their shirt and gave it up....we are still funding the white elephant Amtrack, which cannot be run at a profit.

See above for my response.
Using electric trains wherein electricity is produced from wind, sun, nuclear and natural gas will be clean, and relatively cheap given our foreign policy can be developed without the need to consider the ME and Africa as our energy stations.


Quote:
the building of health care centers in each congressional district across America providing preventative medicine and health care education.
hello who pays for that? are you aware that many rural hospitals are on their last legs, they are being bought up or closed, where does the money come from.
the dems are so proud of their health care bill their strategists are telling them not to discuss it..
New Dem message: 'Improve' health care, don't talk cost - Ben Smith - POLITICO.com

Preventative health care and health care education in each congressional district is doable and relatively inexpensive. Consider providing scholarships for well qualified students who want to be Doctors or public health nurses with the requirment they provide X amount of public service upon graduation (much like our West Point or Annapolis).
Preventing illness is cost effective, treating Diabetes, heart disease, and other chronic preventable disease just makes sense.

further-
Cash-Poor Governments Ditching Public Hospitals
More than a fifth of the nation’s 5,000 hospitals are owned by governments and many are drowning in debt caused by rising health-care costs, a spike in uninsured patients, cuts in Medicare and Medicaid and payments on construction bonds sold in fatter times. Because most public hospitals tend to be solo operations, they don’t enjoy the economies of scale, or more generous insurance contracts, which bolster revenue at many larger nonprofit and for-profit systems.
Cash-Poor Governments Ditching Public Hospitals - WSJ.com

Most public hospitals are county run/county funded and provide care to the uninsured. The uninsured are most likely to appear at emergency rooms; if they had available free clinics operated by professionals trained on the public dime and serving the public much like the officers in our military.



Quote:
Image the possibilities, jobs for decades, less dependence on foreign oil, and a healthier happier citizenry. The opposite of hate and fear, the only other policy the Republican Party seems to have.
more Utopian gobblegook, you have named a bunch of initiatives yet have no idea yourself how to make them work ( I can guess though, taxes right, on the 'rich'), Unicorns don't cut it.......in short your post is a nonsensical uber partisan breaking of wind.

And you offer ... an ad hominem attack. Nice job.

see that wasn't hard, I offered critique, if you wish to take one small slice of statment and go with it, hey have at it. ....


can you please use the quote feature, there is no way I can insert answers here without making a hash of this, I did you that service I would appreciate reciprocation, thank you so much.

 

[Meister]

How come Progressives never realize that America is a lot bigger than Korea or Japan?

Progressives are supposedly so fucking smart but why do they want us to mimic the transportation grid of countries the size of a single state?

Happy Reid wanted to build a high speed rail from Las Vegas to Los Angeles. Has someone pointed out that you can fly the route for $49?

Progressives: they're not as smart as they say they are

Thanks for sharing CF, your inability to see the big picture is amazing.

hey Wry the voters in our State rejected that rail line if i remember correctly....so is Frank alone in this?.....there is no big picture in that particular rail line....

How much of this will come out of the state fund? How much in debt is Ca.? Yeah wry is a big government person and seems to think the government has a money tree.

 

[Trajan]

Happy Reid wanted to build a high speed rail from Las Vegas to Los Angeles. Has someone pointed out that you can fly the route for $49?

Do you guarantee that $49 price in 20 years? 10 years? 5 years? 6 months from now? Next week?

Progressives: they're not as smart as they say they are

Regressives: just not smart by any standard.

the Reid proposal is a dead loser.

Amtrak ran a line from Anaheim to SF to Vegas in the 90s' for over 5 years, they stopped it...why?

becasue no one used it...with the cost factored in etc. the train ticket price had to stay under 50.00 bucks in order to win funding and remian cost effective ala draw riders....

After all the hoopla re-engineered quotes have already pushed it up to 85 bucks,.....so, whose costs has risen and the damn thing isn't even built yet?

Ipso, the ticket price for plane fair would have to double, ( and then theres the convenience factor, the time and all that jazz)... ....and thats IF a big if,like if the train ticket price did not go up again...which it will, bet on it, see; the "Big Dig".

 

[Synthaholic]

My job creation ideas are to get government out of the way and let the market do the heavy lifting

That's the philosophy of the vast majority of Rightwingers, correct?

 

[Harry Dresden]

Thanks for sharing CF, your inability to see the big picture is amazing.

hey Wry the voters in our State rejected that rail line if i remember correctly....so is Frank alone in this?.....there is no big picture in that particular rail line....

Money was approved by the voters for high speed rail connecting SoCal and the Bay Area. Planning is underway and the destruction of the old rail terminus and building of a new "union station" will begin soon in downtown San Francisco.

thats not the same line that was in discussion Wry.....

 

[Harry Dresden]

Thanks for sharing CF, your inability to see the big picture is amazing.

hey Wry the voters in our State rejected that rail line if i remember correctly....so is Frank alone in this?.....there is no big picture in that particular rail line....

How much of this will come out of the state fund? How much in debt is Ca.? Yeah wry is a big government person and seems to think the government has a money tree.

i would like to find this tree before all the money is shaken off.........

 

[Meister]

My job creation ideas are to get government out of the way and let the market do the heavy lifting

That's the philosophy of the vast majority of Rightwingers, correct?

The vast majority of Americans believe that. So where does that leave you?
Another wingnut

 

[Wry Catcher]

Why all this concern about the national debt? It didn't exist during the Bush years. One might assume some support war as the only legitimate reason to sell bonds, yet, Bush never did offer Americans the opportunity to invest in (the ever evolving reasons for going to war and occupying Iraq) 'defending' America.
I often wonder how fiscally responsible each echo chamber member is in their own life. How many of you - and you know who you are - carry over credit card debt each month? How many have taken equity loans to fund vacations, buy cars or other unnecessary items? How many of you smoke (a stupid act in both the fiscal and physical sensed)? And, how many of you 'think' you're a fiscal conservative?
How many of you are 'fiscally responsible' and don't repair your roof because you won't borrow the cash to have it done? How many don't change the oil in their car, or operate in the penny wise, pound foolish manner?
A page or two back a jerk called me a hypocrite, and offered no evidence. Of course all of us condemn others, sometimes even when we engage in similar behavior - that too is human nature. But the ad hominem, tu quoque posts by him and others is a sign of self righeous arrogance, not the expression of ideas or solutions to problems.
Sixteen pages in and still no pragmatic ideas on how to fix our nations problems, still the same old platitudes: cut taxes, cut spending, cut regulations. Honestly, it is very hard to not to respond to some of you with one of your own stupid one-liners.

 

[Synthaholic]

The Right has offered concrete solution? I must have been sleepy (oddude does that to me). Please, enlighten me, what solutions have been offered by the Right?

"...your refusal to acknowledge them does not mean they're not there."

Looks like I called it. Meanwhile, I have absolutely no confidence that you would acknowledge any solutions I could show have been offered. So why don't you go ahead and claim victory now, because we both know you will no matter what I do. Mmmmkay?

Wry Catcher: consider this a teachable moment. Whenever you want any sort of proof, documentation, links, or intelligent response from Trollman, you will instead get a reply just like this one. It's his M.O. because he can't pull links out of his ass.

 

[Synthaholic]

My job creation ideas are to get government out of the way and let the market do the heavy lifting

That's the philosophy of the vast majority of Rightwingers, correct?

The vast majority of Americans believe that. So where does that leave you?
Another wingnut

I was kind of wanting CrusaderFrank to answer that, but you will do.

If that's the widely held philosophy, then why are all the wingnuts complaining that Obama hasn't created any jobs?

 

[daveman]

The Right has offered concrete solution? I must have been sleepy (oddude does that to me). Please, enlighten me, what solutions have been offered by the Right?

"...your refusal to acknowledge them does not mean they're not there."

Looks like I called it. Meanwhile, I have absolutely no confidence that you would acknowledge any solutions I could show have been offered. So why don't you go ahead and claim victory now, because we both know you will no matter what I do. Mmmmkay?

Wry Catcher: consider this a teachable moment. Whenever you want any sort of proof, documentation, links, or intelligent response from Trollman, you will instead get a reply just like this one. It's his M.O. because he can't pull links out of his ass.

You might have a leg to stand on if you could show me ONE post of yours where you acknowledged an argument I made as being valid.

We both know you can't.

 

[daveman]

That's the philosophy of the vast majority of Rightwingers, correct?

The vast majority of Americans believe that. So where does that leave you?
Another wingnut

I was kind of wanting CrusaderFrank to answer that, but you will do.

If that's the widely held philosophy, then why are all the wingnuts complaining that Obama hasn't created any jobs?

Because Obama said he would if we gave him a trillion dollars.

He didn't. He lied to you, Skippy. But Gaea forbid you hold him accountable.

 

[Wry Catcher]

The vast majority of Americans believe that. So where does that leave you?
Another wingnut

I was kind of wanting CrusaderFrank to answer that, but you will do.

If that's the widely held philosophy, then why are all the wingnuts complaining that Obama hasn't created any jobs?

Because Obama said he would if we gave him a trillion dollars.

He didn't. He lied to you, Skippy. But Gaea forbid you hold him accountable.

Daveman, study the theory of holes. I followed the links to your posts on the other message board.
You have no cred, skippy.

 

[Meister]

I was kind of wanting CrusaderFrank to answer that, but you will do.

If that's the widely held philosophy, then why are all the wingnuts complaining that Obama hasn't created any jobs?

Because Obama said he would if we gave him a trillion dollars.

He didn't. He lied to you, Skippy. But Gaea forbid you hold him accountable.

Daveman, study the theory of holes. I followed the links to your posts on the other message board.
You have no cred, skippy.

Pot---Kettle---Black

 

[Meister]

That's the philosophy of the vast majority of Rightwingers, correct?

The vast majority of Americans believe that. So where does that leave you?
Another wingnut

I was kind of wanting CrusaderFrank to answer that, but you will do.

If that's the widely held philosophy, then why are all the wingnuts complaining that Obama hasn't created any jobs?

Well.....if you would stop drinking the kool-Aid you would see that Obama really hasn't created that many jobs. The reason why this is happening is because of Obama's policies, no one wants to hire until they see how the healthcare and the new regulations on businesses are going to be played once they are brought into the light. Good grief.....

Only 61,000 private-sector jobs were created in June and July
RealClearPolitics - Shamelessness and the Stimulus

PS. The vast majority of Americans believe that barry hasn't created that many jobs, they all can't be wingnuts, sonny. I'm thinkin' that anyone to the right of your philosophy would be considered a wingnut.

 

[Synthaholic]

The vast majority of Americans believe that. So where does that leave you?
Another wingnut

I was kind of wanting CrusaderFrank to answer that, but you will do.

If that's the widely held philosophy, then why are all the wingnuts complaining that Obama hasn't created any jobs?

Well.....if you would stop drinking the kool-Aid you would see that Obama really hasn't created that many jobs. The reason why this is happening is because of Obama's policies, no one wants to hire until they see how the healthcare and the new regulations on businesses are going to be played once they are brought into the light. Good grief.....

Only 61,000 private-sector jobs were created in June and July
RealClearPolitics - Shamelessness and the Stimulus

PS. The vast majority of Americans believe that barry hasn't created that many jobs, they all can't be wingnuts, sonny. I'm thinkin' that anyone to the right of your philosophy would be considered a wingnut.

Let's see how honest you are.

Obama didn't promise to create jobs, and Rightwingers do not support the government creating jobs (unless it's Bush creating the largest Federal beaurocracy in the history of man, the Homeland Security Dept.).

Can you show where Obama promised to create jobs? Or can you only show where Obama promised policies that would save jobs? There is a difference. And the stimulus has saved many jobs, as has the GM bailout.

Healthcare and business regulations have nothing to do with the current loss of jobs. Neither of those have kicked in yet, and the jobs weren't coming back even before the financial reform bill.

The reason is the lack of lending. Bush/Paulson put no mandates in the TARP for Wall Streeters to lend the taxpayer bailout money. So they haven't. They have kept that money for themselves.

 

[Meister]

I was kind of wanting CrusaderFrank to answer that, but you will do.

If that's the widely held philosophy, then why are all the wingnuts complaining that Obama hasn't created any jobs?

Well.....if you would stop drinking the kool-Aid you would see that Obama really hasn't created that many jobs. The reason why this is happening is because of Obama's policies, no one wants to hire until they see how the healthcare and the new regulations on businesses are going to be played once they are brought into the light. Good grief.....

Only 61,000 private-sector jobs were created in June and July
RealClearPolitics - Shamelessness and the Stimulus

PS. The vast majority of Americans believe that barry hasn't created that many jobs, they all can't be wingnuts, sonny. I'm thinkin' that anyone to the right of your philosophy would be considered a wingnut.

Let's see how honest you are.

Obama didn't promise to create jobs, and Rightwingers do not support the government creating jobs (unless it's Bush creating the largest Federal beaurocracy in the history of man, the Homeland Security Dept.).

Can you show where Obama promised to create jobs? Or can you only show where Obama promised policies that would save jobs? There is a difference. And the stimulus has saved many jobs, as has the GM bailout.

Healthcare and business regulations have nothing to do with the current loss of jobs. Neither of those have kicked in yet, and the jobs weren't coming back even before the financial reform bill.

The reason is the lack of lending. Bush/Paulson put no mandates in the TARP for Wall Streeters to lend the taxpayer bailout money. So they haven't. They have kept that money for themselves.

"Shovel ready jobs".

Also,

The president-elect says he wants to "create three million new jobs" -- this is a change from a few weeks ago, when he said he wanted the plan to create OR SAVE two million jobs.

He says the "No. 1 goal of my plan ... is to create three million new jobs, more than 80 percent of them in the private sector.”
http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2009/01/prez-elect-make.html

 

[Meister]

I was kind of wanting CrusaderFrank to answer that, but you will do.

If that's the widely held philosophy, then why are all the wingnuts complaining that Obama hasn't created any jobs?

Well.....if you would stop drinking the kool-Aid you would see that Obama really hasn't created that many jobs. The reason why this is happening is because of Obama's policies, no one wants to hire until they see how the healthcare and the new regulations on businesses are going to be played once they are brought into the light. Good grief.....

Only 61,000 private-sector jobs were created in June and July
RealClearPolitics - Shamelessness and the Stimulus

PS. The vast majority of Americans believe that barry hasn't created that many jobs, they all can't be wingnuts, sonny. I'm thinkin' that anyone to the right of your philosophy would be considered a wingnut.

Let's see how honest you are.

Obama didn't promise to create jobs, and Rightwingers do not support the government creating jobs (unless it's Bush creating the largest Federal beaurocracy in the history of man, the Homeland Security Dept.).

Can you show where Obama promised to create jobs? Or can you only show where Obama promised policies that would save jobs? There is a difference. And the stimulus has saved many jobs, as has the GM bailout.

Healthcare and business regulations have nothing to do with the current loss of jobs. Neither of those have kicked in yet, and the jobs weren't coming back even before the financial reform bill.

The reason is the lack of lending. Bush/Paulson put no mandates in the TARP for Wall Streeters to lend the taxpayer bailout money. So they haven't. They have kept that money for themselves.

Healthcare and business regulations, plus the sunset of the Bush tax cuts are INDEED a reason that businesses are reluctant to hire new employees. You saying they aren't, doesn't make it so.