Why is Building the Wall Wrong?

[ShaklesOfBigGov]

I promised you a response. It takes two parts. Here is the first part, the second one to follow:

Ray, challenging me on a subject you have shown an absolute ignorant and /or disdain of can be very costly. To begin with, the build the wall guys say if you are not for a wall, you are a liberal, lefty, etc. That is absolutely idiotic as we shall see.

The way I view the topic is best described in an analogy. In this analogy a man is stuck in a burning apartment on the third floor of a building (this part of the analogy describes our situation in America.) If this man stays in his current position, he dies. If the man goes out the door, there is a 100 percent chance that he will be killed (that part of the analogy refers to the nutty wall idea.) If he jumps out the window, the fall might kill him, but then again, he might live. That part of the analogy refers to a solution OTHER THAN the nutty wall idea.

I am neither pro-open borders NOR am I anti – closed borders. So, let’s get that understood and make an attempt to be honest. It’s just that a militarized border with a wall around it will not work in the United States.

The REAL cost of the wall is Liberty. So far, no build the wall guy has addressed the issue of Liberty. In the Declaration of Independence, we find these words:

“WE hold these Truths to be self-evident, that all Men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness”

Of this document, the Declaration of Independence, the SCOTUS ruled:

The first official action of this nation declared the foundation of government in these words: "We hold these truths to be self evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights, that among these are life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. "While such declaration of principles may not have the force of organic law, or be made the basis of judicial decision as to the limits of right and duty, and while in all cases reference must be had to the organic law of the nation for such limits, yet the latter is but the body and the letter of which the former is the thought and the spirit, and it is always safe to read the letter of the Constitution in the spirit of the Declaration of Independence. No duty rests more imperatively upon the courts than the enforcement of those constitutional provisions intended to secure that equality of rights which is the foundation of free government." Cotting v. Godard, 183 U.S. 79 (1901)

The Bible is clear about this subject as well:

“Proclaim Liberty throughout all the land Unto All the Inhabitants thereof” Leviticus 25: 10 and this Bible verse can be found on the Liberty Bell at Independence Hall. This Old Testament verse refers to the "Jubilee", or the instructions to the Israelites to return property and free slaves.every 50 years.

In II Timothy 3: 16 we read that “All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness”

Finally, in II Corinthians 3 : 17 we read that:

“Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is Liberty.”

But what is Liberty? Well in a biblical sense, liberty means freedom (see # 1865 in the Greek Dictionary of Strong’s Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible. In law, Liberty means Freedom; exemption from extraneous control. …freedom regulated by law. (Black’s Law Dictionary Fifth Edition)

My take on it is very simple:

In New Jersey, they passed a law requiring people to turn in high capacity magazines… this included even off duty police. Nobody complied? Why? People think the law is unconstitutional. The Right to Life and Liberty are unalienable Rights. The Right to keep and bear Arms is an unalienable Right. It is an extension of both a Right to Life AND a Right to Liberty. So, no matter how many laws are passed, the majority of gun owners will not forfeit that Right. On that issue, they understand the concept.

Those same people would, however, deny to me my Rights and punish me for hiring undocumented foreigners. The sad truth is, just as the feds are usurping the Second Amendment, they are waging a war against your Liberty. Those wanting a wall cannot find any biblical precedent for CONTROLLING people (which was one the first reasons cited to me in favor of a wall) and that was followed up by Ray – falsely believing we can keep people out. What a crock! (Continued in part II)

Now you're forcing me to repeat myself.

That has to be the damned funniest thing I've read on this board. Everyone in our country has rights, but they are also subject to our laws if they abuse those rights. The same damned thing applies to illegal aliens, that's how our LAW refers to them. So take your semantics game and shove it.

Our Constitution doesn't apply to the whole freaking world, the entry of aliens (meaning not of this country) are regulated by our laws. Not by your fantasies.

.

I've repeated myself EIGHT times to Ray. You bitch because you cannot understand one simple thing:

While the Constitution governs us, there are laws above the Constitution

Violating laws can take any right, up to and including life. You can pretend natural laws trump ours, but nature doesn't have law enforcement officers and the only rights aliens have is due process. BTW that's the second time you've pass on my comment with out addressing it directly, what's wrong, can argue with facts?

.

He gets very quiet when YOU are able to back up your position with references, and then challenge him to do the same. Says a lot doesn’t it?

I didn't get quiet. I quit letting the dumb asses ambush me and the truth is, after more than SIX attempts, none of you have offered to answer the questions I asked first. Quiet? Open challenge to any one of you to meet me one on one off this board in a REAL debate.

I haven't finished my rant about Liberty yet. See posts 3475 and 3476

Again, no proof of any references as to why the 14th Amendment is an illegal ratification of the United States Constitution.

Constitutional Lawyer my ass

 

[basquebromance]

"If Republicans think we have an immigration crisis now, just wait until there are tens of millions of migrants/refugees as the result of climate change."

 

[ShaklesOfBigGov]

It's not relevant to the OP and I'd have to explain that while trying to reply to fifty four people attacking me on this thread. If they would STFU and quit repeating the same points, I might be able to give you a hint as to why the 14th was illegally ratified... as if posters are too stupid to Google it.

If it's irrelevant, stop spewing about it.

.

You keep bringing up irrelevant and off topic material. What are you REALLY afraid of?

You're the only making multiple posts claiming the 14th is illegal, and then saying it's irrelevant to the OP. You need to make up our minds.

.

I already asked him to prove how exactly the 14th Amendment was shown to be an “illegal ratification” of the United States Constitution. He has no answer, I’m still waiting.

You can wait until Hell freezes over. I asked questions first and you may think you're God, but you aren't. Besides such a discussion is not the subject of the OP. Open challenge to have a debate on a board of my choosing - where it is you and I and nobody else gets to participate.

Ask me your questions. I bet you don’t have the Constitutional knowledge nor references to actually back up anything you say. You are a fraud

 

[depotoo]

To sneak into Mexico illegally? Lol

How are you saving it, by flooding it with ignorant peasants from Mexico?

I've answered this for you three times:

1) I'm working to stop the drug addicts created by parents, government, doctors / mental health officials and Big Pharma

2) We're taking people off the street, helping them get a GED, clean up their record if possible and get them back into the work-force

3) I am constantly lobbying legislators to pass legislation to get them to rehabilitate those in prison by giving prisoners an opportunity to earn shorter sentences via accomplishments while incarcerated: Get their GED, learn a job skill, etc.

Why can you not do this and support more border security?

I do support border security. I simply do not support the wall. It jeopardizes our Liberty.

You need some new jokes. That wasn't funny.

First time ever used. Your statement it is a threat to liberty deserved it.

 

[MaryL]

We already have a border wall, don't we? And it isn't working . It is ugly and scar on our landscape. I want to tear it down. Now, I am NOT a modern day liberal. But what I really want, no more freekin' "LIBERAL" driven Sanctuary Cities thing. Especially; since that was never on any voter approved ballot or initiative. It suddenly popped up regardless or despite the local constituency . THAT seemingly is the crux of this biscuit. That has got to end. And that is an internal legal issue. I think, I believe, that sanctuary cities are unconstitutional and the people that have silently and covertly pushed special treatment for illegal aliens need to be investigated by congress. And we don't need a border wall. Thank you for listening to my rant.

 

[OKTexas]

Put up a wall and no rights of yours will be taken away. If that happens, you let me know what right you lost, and I'll join your side. This "losing rights' nonsense is some sort of black helicopter scare tactic that will never work. You want to prove yourself as a conservative? Then join the conservatives on this issue.

I promised you a response. It takes two parts. Here is the first part, the second one to follow:

Ray, challenging me on a subject you have shown an absolute ignorant and /or disdain of can be very costly. To begin with, the build the wall guys say if you are not for a wall, you are a liberal, lefty, etc. That is absolutely idiotic as we shall see.

The way I view the topic is best described in an analogy. In this analogy a man is stuck in a burning apartment on the third floor of a building (this part of the analogy describes our situation in America.) If this man stays in his current position, he dies. If the man goes out the door, there is a 100 percent chance that he will be killed (that part of the analogy refers to the nutty wall idea.) If he jumps out the window, the fall might kill him, but then again, he might live. That part of the analogy refers to a solution OTHER THAN the nutty wall idea.

I am neither pro-open borders NOR am I anti – closed borders. So, let’s get that understood and make an attempt to be honest. It’s just that a militarized border with a wall around it will not work in the United States.

The REAL cost of the wall is Liberty. So far, no build the wall guy has addressed the issue of Liberty. In the Declaration of Independence, we find these words:

“WE hold these Truths to be self-evident, that all Men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness”

Of this document, the Declaration of Independence, the SCOTUS ruled:

The first official action of this nation declared the foundation of government in these words: "We hold these truths to be self evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights, that among these are life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. "While such declaration of principles may not have the force of organic law, or be made the basis of judicial decision as to the limits of right and duty, and while in all cases reference must be had to the organic law of the nation for such limits, yet the latter is but the body and the letter of which the former is the thought and the spirit, and it is always safe to read the letter of the Constitution in the spirit of the Declaration of Independence. No duty rests more imperatively upon the courts than the enforcement of those constitutional provisions intended to secure that equality of rights which is the foundation of free government." Cotting v. Godard, 183 U.S. 79 (1901)

The Bible is clear about this subject as well:

“Proclaim Liberty throughout all the land Unto All the Inhabitants thereof” Leviticus 25: 10 and this Bible verse can be found on the Liberty Bell at Independence Hall. This Old Testament verse refers to the "Jubilee", or the instructions to the Israelites to return property and free slaves.every 50 years.

In II Timothy 3: 16 we read that “All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness”

Finally, in II Corinthians 3 : 17 we read that:

“Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is Liberty.”

But what is Liberty? Well in a biblical sense, liberty means freedom (see # 1865 in the Greek Dictionary of Strong’s Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible. In law, Liberty means Freedom; exemption from extraneous control. …freedom regulated by law. (Black’s Law Dictionary Fifth Edition)

My take on it is very simple:

In New Jersey, they passed a law requiring people to turn in high capacity magazines… this included even off duty police. Nobody complied? Why? People think the law is unconstitutional. The Right to Life and Liberty are unalienable Rights. The Right to keep and bear Arms is an unalienable Right. It is an extension of both a Right to Life AND a Right to Liberty. So, no matter how many laws are passed, the majority of gun owners will not forfeit that Right. On that issue, they understand the concept.

Those same people would, however, deny to me my Rights and punish me for hiring undocumented foreigners. The sad truth is, just as the feds are usurping the Second Amendment, they are waging a war against your Liberty. Those wanting a wall cannot find any biblical precedent for CONTROLLING people (which was one the first reasons cited to me in favor of a wall) and that was followed up by Ray – falsely believing we can keep people out. What a crock! (Continued in part II)

Now you're forcing me to repeat myself.

That has to be the damned funniest thing I've read on this board. Everyone in our country has rights, but they are also subject to our laws if they abuse those rights. The same damned thing applies to illegal aliens, that's how our LAW refers to them. So take your semantics game and shove it.

Our Constitution doesn't apply to the whole freaking world, the entry of aliens (meaning not of this country) are regulated by our laws. Not by your fantasies.

.

I've repeated myself EIGHT times to Ray. You bitch because you cannot understand one simple thing:

While the Constitution governs us, there are laws above the Constitution

Violating laws can take any right, up to and including life. You can pretend natural laws trump ours, but nature doesn't have law enforcement officers and the only rights aliens have is due process. BTW that's the second time you've passed on my comment with out addressing it directly, what's wrong, can't argue with facts?

.

I have asked you innumerable questions that you have chosen to pass on. Who in the Hell do you think you are? God? I don't owe you spit. Just you say something don't make you God and I'm not obliged to answer you when you've spent the balance of your time on this thread lying and trying to be a damn bully.

You answer my questions, I'll answer yours - and HELL no I won't look through this mess to find them for you. You may have a few lap dogs that believe crap you say just because they want to believe it, but that don't make it true and it will NEVER add up to a fact.

Poor little thing, I've addressed every question you've asked me, it's your problem it you didn't like my answers.

.

 

[OKTexas]

If police officers ask for guns should we not give them guns because in someone’s opinion it infringes on their liberties? I find that odd.

Are you drunk? What in the HELL did that mean?

I would never advocate giving up your gun.

But you’re OK denying border agents another form of protection they feel they need?

The public Liberty comes first. What did Franklin say about trading Essential Liberty for the promise of temporary Safety.?

What did he say about safety with no trade of liberty?

If you knew, you would not be doing it every day - IF you were a REAL American.

Wow, a social worker, constitutional lawyer and now the arbiter of who is a "REAL American", damn you're versatile ain't ya?

.

 

[OKTexas]

Opinions are like assholes. Everyone has one. But if you throw a competitor into a ring and then put him against a dozen other guys, it's pretty damn desperate to claim he lost to any particular one of them.

That is why you guys are so dishonest. I've spent over a thousand posts here, only to watch people like you and Independent change the goal posts, gang up on me and lie to the other posters while deflecting.

Well you did say you didn’t care what our border agents wanted. Pretty heartless imo.

They get paid to do a job and if I have to give up my Liberties for what they want, they can pound sand.

What liberties are you giving up? If you want to hire foreigners, fine, but do it the legal way like everybody else. We allow some foreigners into the country to work. You may have to sponsor them, but it's possible. Can you usher in a slew of people and then pick workers? No you can't, but that has nothing to do with your liberties.

I wonder why he doesn't hire his ex-cons instead of illegals?

.

If you READ THIS THREAD you would know why. Sorry ass Americans are not going to work while the government is paying them not to do anything. There aren't enough homeless looking to better themselves either, but I keep trying.

What did you say about excuses? You see unlike you I've actually hired people who have been in jail to do odd jobs around my place instead of illegals. I guess I practice what you preach better than you do.

.

 

[ShaklesOfBigGov]

Yeah, this dude has gone form some kind of social worker to now a constitutional lawyer. He hasn't even said why he thinks the 14th was implemented illegally.

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It's not relevant to the OP and I'd have to explain that while trying to reply to fifty four people attacking me on this thread. If they would STFU and quit repeating the same points, I might be able to give you a hint as to why the 14th was illegally ratified... as if posters are too stupid to Google it.

If it's irrelevant, stop spewing about it.

.

You keep bringing up irrelevant and off topic material. What are you REALLY afraid of?

You're the only making multiple posts claiming the 14th is illegal, and then saying it's irrelevant to the OP. You need to make up our minds.

.

I'm giving you the same amount of information your side gives me. Laundry list for laundry list.

Excuse me but, unlike you, I provided references behind the positions I posted. I just found a way to shut you up. That’s why you’re avoiding bringing up your immigration position with me, because I already have demonstrated to you that I can actually back up my position with referenced facts.

For someone that claims “Constitutional knowledge with 250 cases” ... research and providing references was never your strong suit on this thread. If you are going to boast all this court experience, at least back it up with showing you know how to do research. At least I know enough never to claim knowledge in a career I don’t actually possess.

 

[MaryL]

What is so funny about my post? I am feeling like Elvis Costello. Peace love & understanding. So, If ya' all want to keep the wankers out, don't hire them! Make them Prove their national identity with state sanctioned national identity card linked to their, DNA, Fingerprints. Things that are verifiable. Might be cheaper and more effective than building a wall on the southern border. But let's keep up cheap petty appearances, like "Border walls". Bully.

 

[boedicca]

I’m afraid you are delusional.

Stand away from the mirror. You'll be okay.

^^^ Diagnosis: Terminal Projection ^^^

I don't project shit. I bet you can't debate twelve posters at a time.

If you call what you are doing "debate", you are sorely delusional.

If you think I EVER called this ambush a debate, YOU are sorely delusional. It's a lot of name calling by those who made the wall a religion. They cannot answer simple questions and they want to call people names while lying and deflecting.

I'm being required to "debate" (THEIR WORDS) a dozen at a time because not even one of them will leave the comfort of USM and debate on a level playing field. It's an ambush by people who struggle with their own conscience on this issue. See posts 3475 and 3476 for proof.

Scuze moi, but you claimed to be debating 12 people simultaneously.

As if.

 

[Flopper]

Poll: Majority opposes border wall with Mexico

So, is America a Republic or a Democracy?

Enough Americans voted for the wall to put Trump in office along with a butt load of congresscritters in 2016.

.

That was three years ago.

It was TWO years ago, and about two months,. Just a little off in your math. Now Trump votes of just TWO years ago no longer matter, but don't EVER expect the Left to stop trying to shove a video of Trump bragging and trying to impress some guy about what a babe magnet he was from FOURTEEN years ago! At least we KNOW the votes REALLY HAPPENED.

Irrelevant. Public opinion went against the wall after Trump was elected.

You, of course, mean the media that was against Trump breathing from the moment he tossed his hat in the ring.

In his first speech announcing his candidacy he attached the Muslims, the Chinese, Mexicans, Central and South Americans. In his next speech he declared war on the media. He missed the Blacks but that was soon to follow:

From his first speech he said, "They’re sending people that have lots of problems, and they’re bringing those problems with us. They’re bringing drugs. They’re bringing crime. They’re rapists. And some, I assume, are good people.

When he threw his hat in the ring he essential declared war on all minorities aligning himself with the white majority. I'm sure white supremacists across the country felt they finally had a candidate they could support.

 

[Porter Rockwell]

Border Patrol agents want it. That to me is first and foremost in importance. Progressive Left is anti Semitic. That is also a fact.

I don't give a rip what Border Patrol agents want. They work for the taxpayers. Who do you think researched and wrote the talking points that the build the wall guys rely on?

Yep, they work for us, and we're obligated to give them the tools required to do the job we ask them to do in an effective and safe manner. We already have walls and barriers on roughly 1/3rd of the border. Now you cry babies claim adding an additional 10% will somehow restrict our liberties and would be IMMORAL. REALLY?? That seems to fly in the face of logic.

.

Well, I don't know if adding a couple hundred miles of wall will seriously limit anyone's liberties but it's highly unlike to seriously reduce the number of illegal immigrants. Most of the border will still be unfenced and we are doing nothing to stop the flow coming through ports of entry nor dealing with the fact that most illegal immigrants enter legally. The wall is basically a waste of money and worse yet it deflects the nation's attention away other major problems.

200 miles wont solve the problem, but 1400 miles will. You're attacking a "solution" that no one has proposed. Border crossing is 60% of the problem, but you're saying solving 60% of the problem is a waste of time. You're just an open borders douchebag, or course, who doesn't want to solve the problem.

Visa overstays is another problem that can easily be solved, but douchebags like you have obstructed the solution to that problem as well.

It appears the one genuine obstacle to get real border security is douchebags like you.

The difference between border crossers and VISA overstays is the VISA people have been vetted. The people jumping our border could have Lord knows what kind of diseases, Lord knows what minimal education, and Lord knows what kind of criminal record. I'm sure many of them don't even know a word of English.

Therefore border crossers have to be a priority over VISA overstays because it's not just about them being here illegally, it's more about our safety and culture.

Ray, You never responded to posts 3475 and 3476. So, I will try yet again. Here is part III - a continuation to see if you will keep your word:

Part III


I’m saving my best stuff for last, but I wanted to continue on answering Ray (who is too ashamed to respond to his request that I tell him what Liberties are lost with the wall.


If you throw a rock into a still pond, it makes a lot of ripples. One right wing book I read called Unintended Consequences by John Ross. It is a fictional novel based upon current laws and how they could be used in an anti-gun scenario. It demonstrates how one action may impact another.

When I was a teen, I spoke out publicly and was then recruited by the Young Republicans Club and the John Birch Society not to mention other organizations and I became hard core right. Since then, my major theme has not changed; the movement has. Those who want a wall around the southern border refuse to answer a few simple questions:

If unalienable Rights exist – and I think they do, WHERE in the Declaration of Independence, Articles of Confederation or the Constitution did our leaders ever presume to take those from people who are not citizens? What proof can they offer us that foreigners were not born with unalienable Rights? They keep accusing me of taking a stand I have NOT taken. I’m asking them for proof of their position.

Unable to do that they call me a lot of names that they cannot back up. But, I want to remind them of a few things:

If you go back to the mid to late 1990s the John Birch Society, Concern Conservative Citizens Society, Young Republicans Club, etc. were AGAINST the New World Order, One World Government, the abolition of jurisdictions,the Constitution Free Zone, militarized police, National ID, surveillance society, the unconstitutional 14th and 16th Amendments (neither passing constitutional muster), and the assaults on religion. They fought gun control, eminent domain abuses, and warrant less search and seizures. Probably, the last great effort to gain national attention was Alex Jones video POLICE STATE 2000 (put out in the late 1980s) and a book called Operation Vampire Killer 2000 (written in the early 1990s by Jack McLamb of Police Against the New World Order.)

Operation Vampire Killer 2000 - The Lawful Path


If one were to return to that era, the uninformed build the wall guys, would swear and be damned the conservatives were the liberals. Well, the right adopted the left’s solutions:



Meanwhile, the left has jumped on the privacy bandwagon, warning Americans about the Constitution Free Zone:






Reminds me of the old Johnny Cash song The One on the Right is on the Left.

Anyway, with the wall up, it will immediately affect your Liberties in about a dozen ways. For this installment, I’ll list three:


1 There will be the strict enforcement of the Constitution Free Zone. There will go your Fourth Amendment Rights FOREVER. Right now, you can still fight back to regain those Rights

2 The right already passed the National ID / REAL ID Act – E Verify which is far worse than what Hitler had AND it reeks of Orwellian nightmares that today’s youth cannot begin to fathom. It will expand into drones and listening devices being used against them 24 / 7 / 365 from the womb to the tomb

3 As if the suspension of constitutional guarantees and total surveillance aren’t enough, the nutty wall gives the government the ability to track your every financial transaction based on your SSN / National ID card.


I mention this because a lot of people have NO intention of surrendering their firearms AND they expect an internal war due to government over-reach. The unintended consequences of this nutty wall idea will give government access to so much information they will know you built your own weapon without you ever having registered it. If you think you or the next generation may have to go up against a tyrannical government, you just handicapped them and endangered their lives with this lobbying effort. We got a long way to go.

 

[OKTexas]

What is so funny about my post? I am feeling like Elvis Costello. Peace love & understanding. So, If ya' all want to keep the wankers out, don't hire them! Make them Prove their national identity with state sanctioned national identity card linked to their, DNA, Fingerprints. Things that are verifiable. Might be cheaper and more effective than building a wall on the southern border. But let's keep up cheap petty appearances, like "Border walls". Bully.

What's so funny, you said walls don't work in-spite of all the evidence to the contrary. The fact is they do work, that's why the border patrol is asking for more. If you don't like how it looks, do an about face, problem solved.

.

 

[MaryL]

Our Constitution proports the idea : NO ONE is above the law. Even people that skirt immigration law. And when local and state officials seem to think they can transcend that and local voters, and the well being of Americans in general, that is too much. This has got to end. I hold that Sanctuary cities are Unconstitutional, and we need to examine that.

 

[OKTexas]

Enough Americans voted for the wall to put Trump in office along with a butt load of congresscritters in 2016.

.

That was three years ago.

It was TWO years ago, and about two months,. Just a little off in your math. Now Trump votes of just TWO years ago no longer matter, but don't EVER expect the Left to stop trying to shove a video of Trump bragging and trying to impress some guy about what a babe magnet he was from FOURTEEN years ago! At least we KNOW the votes REALLY HAPPENED.

Irrelevant. Public opinion went against the wall after Trump was elected.

You, of course, mean the media that was against Trump breathing from the moment he tossed his hat in the ring.

In his first speech announcing his candidacy he attached the Muslims, the Chinese, Mexicans, Central and South Americans. In his next speech he declared war on the media. He missed the Blacks but that was soon to follow:

From his first speech he said, "They’re sending people that have lots of problems, and they’re bringing those problems with us. They’re bringing drugs. They’re bringing crime. They’re rapists. And some, I assume, are good people.

When he threw his hat in the ring he essential declared war on all minorities aligning himself with the white majority. I'm sure white supremacists across the country felt they finally had a candidate they could support.

Actually he aligned himself with the law abiding of all stripes.

.

 

[ShaklesOfBigGov]

What is so funny about my post? I am feeling like Elvis Costello. Peace love & understanding. So, If ya' all want to keep the wankers out, don't hire them! Make them Prove their national identity with state sanctioned national identity card linked to their, DNA, Fingerprints. Things that are verifiable. Might be cheaper and more effective than building a wall on the southern border. But let's keep up cheap petty appearances, like "Border walls". Bully.

Border walls isn’t just about immigration. Do you remember the Jacob Chambers Case under the Obama Administration? You might remember it as Eric Holder botching what was otherwise called “Fast and Furious”. The left will tell me the failure of strict gun regulations to stop rising gun violence, is due to illegal guns filtering across from outside state lines. However, the left favors “open borders” on the US / Mexican border where guns are filtering in this country. How does open borders stop the democrats position of desiring more gun regulations and stopping gun violence? Actually they are their own problem.

What a wall DOES do is make those who wish to enter, use designated access points to enter the United States. We have designated access points in Canada, so this preventing people the liberty to freely cross the border is inaccurate, unproven, and false.

You also have MS-13 gang violence which has made their way to the United States from Mexico. Do Democrats have any answers to my of these problems I addressed here? No.

Also, Harry Reid was strongly opposed to illegals entering this country. He provided actual researched statistics as well as cost burdens, which I posted on this thread with a video. So why the big change to now support what they once was so sternly opposed?

 

[Slyhunter]

The "front lines" of what, destroying our country?

Saving it from people like you

How are you saving it, by flooding it with ignorant peasants from Mexico?

I've answered this for you three times:

1) I'm working to stop the drug addicts created by parents, government, doctors / mental health officials and Big Pharma

2) We're taking people off the street, helping them get a GED, clean up their record if possible and get them back into the work-force

3) I am constantly lobbying legislators to pass legislation to get them to rehabilitate those in prison by giving prisoners an opportunity to earn shorter sentences via accomplishments while incarcerated: Get their GED, learn a job skill, etc.

Why can you not do this and support more border security?

I do support border security. I simply do not support the wall. It jeopardizes our Liberty.

You can't keep them out without a wall. Cameras and sensors will not stop them from crossing the border. We can't hire enough people to insure every illegal is caught and we don't have enough prisons to house them.

 

[Slyhunter]

I don't give a rip what Border Patrol agents want. They work for the taxpayers. Who do you think researched and wrote the talking points that the build the wall guys rely on?

Yep, they work for us, and we're obligated to give them the tools required to do the job we ask them to do in an effective and safe manner. We already have walls and barriers on roughly 1/3rd of the border. Now you cry babies claim adding an additional 10% will somehow restrict our liberties and would be IMMORAL. REALLY?? That seems to fly in the face of logic.

.

Well, I don't know if adding a couple hundred miles of wall will seriously limit anyone's liberties but it's highly unlike to seriously reduce the number of illegal immigrants. Most of the border will still be unfenced and we are doing nothing to stop the flow coming through ports of entry nor dealing with the fact that most illegal immigrants enter legally. The wall is basically a waste of money and worse yet it deflects the nation's attention away other major problems.

200 miles wont solve the problem, but 1400 miles will. You're attacking a "solution" that no one has proposed. Border crossing is 60% of the problem, but you're saying solving 60% of the problem is a waste of time. You're just an open borders douchebag, or course, who doesn't want to solve the problem.

Visa overstays is another problem that can easily be solved, but douchebags like you have obstructed the solution to that problem as well.

It appears the one genuine obstacle to get real border security is douchebags like you.

The difference between border crossers and VISA overstays is the VISA people have been vetted. The people jumping our border could have Lord knows what kind of diseases, Lord knows what minimal education, and Lord knows what kind of criminal record. I'm sure many of them don't even know a word of English.

Therefore border crossers have to be a priority over VISA overstays because it's not just about them being here illegally, it's more about our safety and culture.

Ray, You never responded to posts 3475 and 3476. So, I will try yet again. Here is part III - a continuation to see if you will keep your word:

Part III


I’m saving my best stuff for last, but I wanted to continue on answering Ray (who is too ashamed to respond to his request that I tell him what Liberties are lost with the wall.


If you throw a rock into a still pond, it makes a lot of ripples. One right wing book I read called Unintended Consequences by John Ross. It is a fictional novel based upon current laws and how they could be used in an anti-gun scenario. It demonstrates how one action may impact another.

When I was a teen, I spoke out publicly and was then recruited by the Young Republicans Club and the John Birch Society not to mention other organizations and I became hard core right. Since then, my major theme has not changed; the movement has. Those who want a wall around the southern border refuse to answer a few simple questions:

If unalienable Rights exist – and I think they do, WHERE in the Declaration of Independence, Articles of Confederation or the Constitution did our leaders ever presume to take those from people who are not citizens? What proof can they offer us that foreigners were not born with unalienable Rights? They keep accusing me of taking a stand I have NOT taken. I’m asking them for proof of their position.

Unable to do that they call me a lot of names that they cannot back up. But, I want to remind them of a few things:

If you go back to the mid to late 1990s the John Birch Society, Concern Conservative Citizens Society, Young Republicans Club, etc. were AGAINST the New World Order, One World Government, the abolition of jurisdictions,the Constitution Free Zone, militarized police, National ID, surveillance society, the unconstitutional 14th and 16th Amendments (neither passing constitutional muster), and the assaults on religion. They fought gun control, eminent domain abuses, and warrant less search and seizures. Probably, the last great effort to gain national attention was Alex Jones video POLICE STATE 2000 (put out in the late 1980s) and a book called Operation Vampire Killer 2000 (written in the early 1990s by Jack McLamb of Police Against the New World Order.)

Operation Vampire Killer 2000 - The Lawful Path


If one were to return to that era, the uninformed build the wall guys, would swear and be damned the conservatives were the liberals. Well, the right adopted the left’s solutions:



Meanwhile, the left has jumped on the privacy bandwagon, warning Americans about the Constitution Free Zone:






Reminds me of the old Johnny Cash song The One on the Right is on the Left.

Anyway, with the wall up, it will immediately affect your Liberties in about a dozen ways. For this installment, I’ll list three:


1 There will be the strict enforcement of the Constitution Free Zone. There will go your Fourth Amendment Rights FOREVER. Right now, you can still fight back to regain those Rights

2 The right already passed the National ID / REAL ID Act – E Verify which is far worse than what Hitler had AND it reeks of Orwellian nightmares that today’s youth cannot begin to fathom. It will expand into drones and listening devices being used against them 24 / 7 / 365 from the womb to the tomb

3 As if the suspension of constitutional guarantees and total surveillance aren’t enough, the nutty wall gives the government the ability to track your every financial transaction based on your SSN / National ID card.


I mention this because a lot of people have NO intention of surrendering their firearms AND they expect an internal war due to government over-reach. The unintended consequences of this nutty wall idea will give government access to so much information they will know you built your own weapon without you ever having registered it. If you think you or the next generation may have to go up against a tyrannical government, you just handicapped them and endangered their lives with this lobbying effort. We got a long way to go.

Foreigners might have unalienable rights in their own country but they have no right to be here.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Enough Americans voted for the wall to put Trump in office along with a butt load of congresscritters in 2016.

.

That was three years ago.

It was TWO years ago, and about two months,. Just a little off in your math. Now Trump votes of just TWO years ago no longer matter, but don't EVER expect the Left to stop trying to shove a video of Trump bragging and trying to impress some guy about what a babe magnet he was from FOURTEEN years ago! At least we KNOW the votes REALLY HAPPENED.

Irrelevant. Public opinion went against the wall after Trump was elected.

You, of course, mean the media that was against Trump breathing from the moment he tossed his hat in the ring.

In his first speech announcing his candidacy he attached the Muslims, the Chinese, Mexicans, Central and South Americans. In his next speech he declared war on the media. He missed the Blacks but that was soon to follow:

From his first speech he said, "They’re sending people that have lots of problems, and they’re bringing those problems with us. They’re bringing drugs. They’re bringing crime. They’re rapists. And some, I assume, are good people.

When he threw his hat in the ring he essential declared war on all minorities aligning himself with the white majority. I'm sure white supremacists across the country felt they finally had a candidate they could support.

If you think the phony race thing still works, think again. It doesn't have anything to do with race.