Why should government be kept smaller, and restricted to only certain tasks?

[LogikAndReazon]

Because theyre useless civil servants accountable to no one......

 

[Quantum Windbag]

(a) Government cannot do anything well, due in part to the fact that no one can compete with it, and will always be rife with sloth and inefficiency;

This is the same old rightwing propaganda. It's a half truth. Government defeated the Nazis, put a man on the moon, built the most technologically advanced modern industrial infrastructure in history. Runs a Patent system. Provides subsidies and bailouts to corporations. Study the technology that came out of Cold War Pentagon and NASA programs - and specifically how that technology was largely responsible for the 80s consumer electronics boom. Do you know how much private sector profit comes from the satellite system? Did you know that Boeing and commercial aviation came out of the Defense budget and government lead research? [You do know how much the military depends on state of the art aviation right? Study the history of Boeing and who funded it and the parasitic private sector that absconded with profits made possible by MASSIVE government subsidies, i.e., socialize the costs, privatize the profits.] Study the Hoover Dam and the Colorado River Drainage - specifically who developed and funded the technology that allowed us to settle and create profits within huge portions of the southwest.

Before you tell us how government is inefficient and corrupt (which I agree with), please give us a comprehensive list of the things government does for citizens and business. And before you tell us about the marvels of the free market, explain why John Galt begs for massive state sector intervention in the form of the patent system, to name just one area where the nanny state protects the capitalist. (Why don't you know stuff like this?)

As it stands, your posts read like the same old repetitive garbage we've heard since the rise of the New Right under Reagan and the Chicago School. Much of what Friedman and Reagan said is true, but it's old. You're just repeating garbage without adding anything or coming up with a novel defense of its central claims.

(b) Government's only ability is to restrict and punish its citizens. This is activity extremely vulnerable to abuse, and capable of damaging and destroying lives by the millions if not carefully watched and restrained.

(c) History grimly shows that when government is allowed more authority than necessary, the imperfect humans it's made of begin to abuse that power, virtually every time. And with time, that abuse only increases, often rising to disastrous levels.

The Patriot Act represents the biggest abuse of power in the last 50 years. Your party exploited the terrorist threat to build a massive surveillance bureaucracy. And ... you know what happens once you create a government agency, right? It only gets larger. This is exactly what the Soviet Union did. They used national security threats to create a powerful military, intelligence, surveillance apparatus which was used to by government to protect itself from domestic political opposition. This is why the Bush Fed used the Patriot Act to track Eliot Spitzer's finances . . . so that they could get rid of one of a man who had been critical of their role in the Housing Crisis. Where were you when Bush was abusing his power. Your total loyalty to your party is what makes it easier for them to abuse power.

But yes, I emphatically agree with your points. I opposed both parties when they use the "War on Terrorism" to destroy privacy and freedom. You only oppose Obama, but you trust your party when it holds the White House. This is the problem with the Right. They trust their Big Government leaders completely. The Left destroyed LBJ over Vietnam, whereas the Right rolled over for Bush on Iraq. Please don't be a cheerleader . . . help us solve these problems.

Government did not defeat the Nazis, Americans did.

 

[rightwinger]

Then what you support is mob rule.

If that is how you look at our Constitutional Government....then, yes

The mob rule you support is not constitutional government. It is in fact the very thing the framers sought to avoid, with the checks and balances in place that the progressive subversives you support have circumvented.

Our checks and balances are still in effect

In fact, our founders would be outraged with Republican abuse of filibuster, gerrymandering and the hated Hastert rule

 

[rightwinger]

(a) Government cannot do anything well, due in part to the fact that no one can compete with it, and will always be rife with sloth and inefficiency;

This is the same old rightwing propaganda. It's a half truth. Government defeated the Nazis, put a man on the moon, built the most technologically advanced modern industrial infrastructure in history. Runs a Patent system. Provides subsidies and bailouts to corporations. Study the technology that came out of Cold War Pentagon and NASA programs - and specifically how that technology was largely responsible for the 80s consumer electronics boom. Do you know how much private sector profit comes from the satellite system? Did you know that Boeing and commercial aviation came out of the Defense budget and government lead research? [You do know how much the military depends on state of the art aviation right? Study the history of Boeing and who funded it and the parasitic private sector that absconded with profits made possible by MASSIVE government subsidies, i.e., socialize the costs, privatize the profits.] Study the Hoover Dam and the Colorado River Drainage - specifically who developed and funded the technology that allowed us to settle and create profits within huge portions of the southwest.

Before you tell us how government is inefficient and corrupt (which I agree with), please give us a comprehensive list of the things government does for citizens and business. And before you tell us about the marvels of the free market, explain why John Galt begs for massive state sector intervention in the form of the patent system, to name just one area where the nanny state protects the capitalist. (Why don't you know stuff like this?)

As it stands, your posts read like the same old repetitive garbage we've heard since the rise of the New Right under Reagan and the Chicago School. Much of what Friedman and Reagan said is true, but it's old. You're just repeating garbage without adding anything or coming up with a novel defense of its central claims.

(b) Government's only ability is to restrict and punish its citizens. This is activity extremely vulnerable to abuse, and capable of damaging and destroying lives by the millions if not carefully watched and restrained.

(c) History grimly shows that when government is allowed more authority than necessary, the imperfect humans it's made of begin to abuse that power, virtually every time. And with time, that abuse only increases, often rising to disastrous levels.

The Patriot Act represents the biggest abuse of power in the last 50 years. Your party exploited the terrorist threat to build a massive surveillance bureaucracy. And ... you know what happens once you create a government agency, right? It only gets larger. This is exactly what the Soviet Union did. They used national security threats to create a powerful military, intelligence, surveillance apparatus which was used to by government to protect itself from domestic political opposition. This is why the Bush Fed used the Patriot Act to track Eliot Spitzer's finances . . . so that they could get rid of one of a man who had been critical of their role in the Housing Crisis. Where were you when Bush was abusing his power. Your total loyalty to your party is what makes it easier for them to abuse power.

But yes, I emphatically agree with your points. I opposed both parties when they use the "War on Terrorism" to destroy privacy and freedom. You only oppose Obama, but you trust your party when it holds the White House. This is the problem with the Right. They trust their Big Government leaders completely. The Left destroyed LBJ over Vietnam, whereas the Right rolled over for Bush on Iraq. Please don't be a cheerleader . . . help us solve these problems.

Government did not defeat the Nazis, Americans did.

The evil government took over the entire economy and ran up massive debt. They improved their aircraft from biplanes to jet planes and developed an atomic bomb.

And Americans backed them all the way

 

[HelenaHandbag]

If that is how you look at our Constitutional Government....then, yes

The mob rule you support is not constitutional government. It is in fact the very thing the framers sought to avoid, with the checks and balances in place that the progressive subversives you support have circumvented.

Our checks and balances are still in effect

In fact, our founders would be outraged with Republican abuse of filibuster, gerrymandering and the hated Hastert rule

You are delusional.

But blind partisanship works that way.

 

[The T]

Government is necessary for some things, but should do as little as possible, and should confine itself to important functions that private persons or groups CANNOT DO AT ALL. Examples include National Defense, smoothing the course of interstate commerce with minimal interference in that commerce, conducting foreign relations, setting national standards for money, weights, and measures, dispassionately pursuing and prosecuting criminal behavior, etc.

Occasional events like wars might cause govt departments designed to deal with them, to grow to a size appropriate to do so. But afterward govt must reduce back to its smaller size.

If you feel that government can do something better than private people or groups can do it, that's insufficient reason to grant govt authority to do it. If private people can do it at all, it must be denied to govt unequivocally.

The reason for these restrictions, is that:
(a) Government cannot do anything well, due in part to the fact that no one can compete with it, and will always be rife with sloth and inefficiency;
(b) Government's only ability is to restrict and punish its citizens. This is activity extremely vulnerable to abuse, and capable of damaging and destroying lives by the millions if not carefully watched and restrained.
(c) History grimly shows that when government is allowed more authority than necessary, the imperfect humans it's made of begin to abuse that power, virtually every time. And with time, that abuse only increases, often rising to disastrous levels.

For these reasons, the powers given to government must be carefull spelled out and restricted, with those it restricts retaining full power to change or abolish it.

The Constitution spelled it all out. It has dwindled down to where we are by unchallenged laws.

Since our legislatures aren't up to the task of checking it (because THEY are complicit), it remains with US to right it...

 

[The T]

Because theyre useless civil servants accountable to no one......

....But themselves as they swindle the people.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

This is the same old rightwing propaganda. It's a half truth. Government defeated the Nazis, put a man on the moon, built the most technologically advanced modern industrial infrastructure in history. Runs a Patent system. Provides subsidies and bailouts to corporations. Study the technology that came out of Cold War Pentagon and NASA programs - and specifically how that technology was largely responsible for the 80s consumer electronics boom. Do you know how much private sector profit comes from the satellite system? Did you know that Boeing and commercial aviation came out of the Defense budget and government lead research? [You do know how much the military depends on state of the art aviation right? Study the history of Boeing and who funded it and the parasitic private sector that absconded with profits made possible by MASSIVE government subsidies, i.e., socialize the costs, privatize the profits.] Study the Hoover Dam and the Colorado River Drainage - specifically who developed and funded the technology that allowed us to settle and create profits within huge portions of the southwest.

Before you tell us how government is inefficient and corrupt (which I agree with), please give us a comprehensive list of the things government does for citizens and business. And before you tell us about the marvels of the free market, explain why John Galt begs for massive state sector intervention in the form of the patent system, to name just one area where the nanny state protects the capitalist. (Why don't you know stuff like this?)

As it stands, your posts read like the same old repetitive garbage we've heard since the rise of the New Right under Reagan and the Chicago School. Much of what Friedman and Reagan said is true, but it's old. You're just repeating garbage without adding anything or coming up with a novel defense of its central claims.



The Patriot Act represents the biggest abuse of power in the last 50 years. Your party exploited the terrorist threat to build a massive surveillance bureaucracy. And ... you know what happens once you create a government agency, right? It only gets larger. This is exactly what the Soviet Union did. They used national security threats to create a powerful military, intelligence, surveillance apparatus which was used to by government to protect itself from domestic political opposition. This is why the Bush Fed used the Patriot Act to track Eliot Spitzer's finances . . . so that they could get rid of one of a man who had been critical of their role in the Housing Crisis. Where were you when Bush was abusing his power. Your total loyalty to your party is what makes it easier for them to abuse power.

But yes, I emphatically agree with your points. I opposed both parties when they use the "War on Terrorism" to destroy privacy and freedom. You only oppose Obama, but you trust your party when it holds the White House. This is the problem with the Right. They trust their Big Government leaders completely. The Left destroyed LBJ over Vietnam, whereas the Right rolled over for Bush on Iraq. Please don't be a cheerleader . . . help us solve these problems.

Government did not defeat the Nazis, Americans did.

The evil government took over the entire economy and ran up massive debt. They improved their aircraft from biplanes to jet planes and developed an atomic bomb.

And Americans backed them all the way

Americans backed the German government?

 

[bripat9643]

This is the same old rightwing propaganda. It's a half truth. Government defeated the Nazis, put a man on the moon, built the most technologically advanced modern industrial infrastructure in history. Runs a Patent system. Provides subsidies and bailouts to corporations. Study the technology that came out of Cold War Pentagon and NASA programs - and specifically how that technology was largely responsible for the 80s consumer electronics boom. Do you know how much private sector profit comes from the satellite system? Did you know that Boeing and commercial aviation came out of the Defense budget and government lead research? [You do know how much the military depends on state of the art aviation right? Study the history of Boeing and who funded it and the parasitic private sector that absconded with profits made possible by MASSIVE government subsidies, i.e., socialize the costs, privatize the profits.] Study the Hoover Dam and the Colorado River Drainage - specifically who developed and funded the technology that allowed us to settle and create profits within huge portions of the southwest.

Before you tell us how government is inefficient and corrupt (which I agree with), please give us a comprehensive list of the things government does for citizens and business. And before you tell us about the marvels of the free market, explain why John Galt begs for massive state sector intervention in the form of the patent system, to name just one area where the nanny state protects the capitalist. (Why don't you know stuff like this?)

As it stands, your posts read like the same old repetitive garbage we've heard since the rise of the New Right under Reagan and the Chicago School. Much of what Friedman and Reagan said is true, but it's old. You're just repeating garbage without adding anything or coming up with a novel defense of its central claims.



The Patriot Act represents the biggest abuse of power in the last 50 years. Your party exploited the terrorist threat to build a massive surveillance bureaucracy. And ... you know what happens once you create a government agency, right? It only gets larger. This is exactly what the Soviet Union did. They used national security threats to create a powerful military, intelligence, surveillance apparatus which was used to by government to protect itself from domestic political opposition. This is why the Bush Fed used the Patriot Act to track Eliot Spitzer's finances . . . so that they could get rid of one of a man who had been critical of their role in the Housing Crisis. Where were you when Bush was abusing his power. Your total loyalty to your party is what makes it easier for them to abuse power.

But yes, I emphatically agree with your points. I opposed both parties when they use the "War on Terrorism" to destroy privacy and freedom. You only oppose Obama, but you trust your party when it holds the White House. This is the problem with the Right. They trust their Big Government leaders completely. The Left destroyed LBJ over Vietnam, whereas the Right rolled over for Bush on Iraq. Please don't be a cheerleader . . . help us solve these problems.

Government did not defeat the Nazis, Americans did.

The evil government took over the entire economy and ran up massive debt. They improved their aircraft from biplanes to jet planes and developed an atomic bomb.

And Americans backed them all the way

Wrong, asshole. biplanes were obsolete long before WW II. They already had planes that could go 400 mph in 1937. It's true the evil government took over the entire economy, to no good effect. All that did was cause production bottlenecks.

 

[rightwinger]

Government did not defeat the Nazis, Americans did.

The evil government took over the entire economy and ran up massive debt. They improved their aircraft from biplanes to jet planes and developed an atomic bomb.

And Americans backed them all the way

Americans backed the German government?

Only the Republicans

 

[rightwinger]

Government did not defeat the Nazis, Americans did.

The evil government took over the entire economy and ran up massive debt. They improved their aircraft from biplanes to jet planes and developed an atomic bomb.

And Americans backed them all the way

Wrong, asshole. biplanes were obsolete long before WW II. They already had planes that could go 400 mph in 1937. It's true the evil government took over the entire economy, to no good effect. All that did was cause production bottlenecks.

Such a twisted view of history......rightwing blogs will do that for you

The government took over all production and allocation of workers and resources. Can you imagine the bedlam if free market forces were allowed to function?

Turned the US into an economic Superpower

 

[bripat9643]

The evil government took over the entire economy and ran up massive debt. They improved their aircraft from biplanes to jet planes and developed an atomic bomb.

And Americans backed them all the way

Wrong, asshole. biplanes were obsolete long before WW II. They already had planes that could go 400 mph in 1937. It's true the evil government took over the entire economy, to no good effect. All that did was cause production bottlenecks.

Such a twisted view of history......rightwing blogs will do that for you

The government took over all production and allocation of workers and resources. Can you imagine the bedlam if free market forces were allowed to function?

The "bedlam" occurs when government tries to run something as complex as an economy. Anyone who believes in government planning has been living in a cave for the last 100 years because every time it's been tried it hasn't worked. Government isn't competent to run an economy.

Turned the US into an economic Superpower

It only succeeded in turning the United States into an empire. It was already the world's largest economy before the First World War. After the war unemployment remained at prewar levels until the Republican congress repealed all of FDR's wartime economic controls.

 

[rightwinger]

Wrong, asshole. biplanes were obsolete long before WW II. They already had planes that could go 400 mph in 1937. It's true the evil government took over the entire economy, to no good effect. All that did was cause production bottlenecks.

Such a twisted view of history......rightwing blogs will do that for you

The government took over all production and allocation of workers and resources. Can you imagine the bedlam if free market forces were allowed to function?

The "bedlam" occurs when government tries to run something as complex as an economy. Anyone who believes in government planet has been living in a cave for the last 100 years because every time it's been tried it hasn't worked. Government isn't competent to run an economy.

Turned the US into an economic Superpower

It only succeeded in turning the United States into an empire. It was already the world's largest economy before the First World War. After the war unemployment remained at prewar levels until the Republican congress repealed all of FDR's wartime economic controls.

That Liberal FDR did it and we won WWII

The US production in WWII was an economic machine maximizing available resources to put out he best military hardware in the world

 

[bripat9643]

Such a twisted view of history......rightwing blogs will do that for you

The government took over all production and allocation of workers and resources. Can you imagine the bedlam if free market forces were allowed to function?

The "bedlam" occurs when government tries to run something as complex as an economy. Anyone who believes in government planet has been living in a cave for the last 100 years because every time it's been tried it hasn't worked. Government isn't competent to run an economy.

Turned the US into an economic Superpower

It only succeeded in turning the United States into an empire. It was already the world's largest economy before the First World War. After the war unemployment remained at prewar levels until the Republican congress repealed all of FDR's wartime economic controls.

That Liberal FDR did it and we won WWII

The US production in WWII was an economic machine maximizing available resources to put out he best military hardware in the world

ROFL! The Sherman tank was hardly "the best military hardware in the world." The AMerican economy is what won the war for the U.S. It wouldn't have mattered who was in charge of it. FDRs meddling only reduced the total output our economy was capable of. That's what government planning always does. If government planning is so wonderful, then why wasn't the Soviet Union the land of plenty?

You have to be a complete moron to believe the propaganda filling your head.

 

[rightwinger]

The "bedlam" occurs when government tries to run something as complex as an economy. Anyone who believes in government planet has been living in a cave for the last 100 years because every time it's been tried it hasn't worked. Government isn't competent to run an economy.



It only succeeded in turning the United States into an empire. It was already the world's largest economy before the First World War. After the war unemployment remained at prewar levels until the Republican congress repealed all of FDR's wartime economic controls.

That Liberal FDR did it and we won WWII

The US production in WWII was an economic machine maximizing available resources to put out he best military hardware in the world

ROFL! The Sherman tank was hardly "the best military hardware in the world." The AMerican economy is what won the war for the U.S. It wouldn't have mattered who was in charge of it. FDRs meddling only reduced the total output our economy was capable of. That's what government planning always does. If government planning is so wonderful, then why wasn't the Soviet Union the land of plenty?

You have to be a complete moron to believe the propaganda filling your head.

Actually, partisan infighting and a demand for a larger slice of the pie hurt production. But Gen Marshall did a masterful job of setting priorities and allocating precious resources where they were most needed

government at its best

 

[bripat9643]

That Liberal FDR did it and we won WWII

The US production in WWII was an economic machine maximizing available resources to put out he best military hardware in the world

ROFL! The Sherman tank was hardly "the best military hardware in the world." The AMerican economy is what won the war for the U.S. It wouldn't have mattered who was in charge of it. FDRs meddling only reduced the total output our economy was capable of. That's what government planning always does. If government planning is so wonderful, then why wasn't the Soviet Union the land of plenty?

You have to be a complete moron to believe the propaganda filling your head.

Actually, artisan infighting and a demand for a larger slice of the pie hurt production. But Gen Marshall did a masterful job of setting priorities and allocating precious resources where they were most needed

government at its best

"Artisan infighting?" What does that mean, union strikes? Yes, that did cause problems, but your hero FDR is the one who gave unions the power to force everyone working for a company to join the union.

Making a profit has never harmed production, ever.

Ben Marshall did a shitty job of setting priorities. No bureaucrat can do a better job of allocating resources than the price mechanism. That has been demonstrated time and time again.

 

[bendog]

yes we should have left it to the markets to arm the military in WWII. This is so obvious everyone knows it.

(facepalm)

 

[bripat9643]

yes we should have left it to the markets to arm the military in WWII. This is so obvious everyone knows it.

(facepalm)

Do you imagine that Ford Motor Company would have refused to build all the tanks and B-17s the government wanted? Currently the market provides all the hardware the military requires. What possible reason could there be that it couldn't do so during WW II?

Please explain why the government had to decide how much tin to mine or how much steel to produce during a war.

 

[rightwinger]

yes we should have left it to the markets to arm the military in WWII. This is so obvious everyone knows it.

(facepalm)

Do you imagine that Ford Motor Company would have refused to build all the tanks and B-17s the government wanted? Currently the market provides all the hardware the military requires. What possible reason could there be that it couldn't do so during WW II?

Please explain why the government had to decide how much tin to mine or how much steel to produce during a war.

Would Ford have abandoned all of the private auto market to build tanks? Could they have gotten the resources they needed to meet production quotas? Could they protect their critical workforce?

Free market would have been a disaster

 

[bripat9643]

yes we should have left it to the markets to arm the military in WWII. This is so obvious everyone knows it.

(facepalm)

Do you imagine that Ford Motor Company would have refused to build all the tanks and B-17s the government wanted? Currently the market provides all the hardware the military requires. What possible reason could there be that it couldn't do so during WW II?

Please explain why the government had to decide how much tin to mine or how much steel to produce during a war.

Would Ford have abandoned all of the private auto market to build tanks? Could they have gotten the resources they needed to meet production quotas? Could they protect their critical workforce?

Ford would have devoted its production to whatever returned the most profit. Nothing screws up getting the resources a company needs better than some bureaucrat being put in charge of it. When has a private company that was making a good profit ever had trouble getting the resources it needs? Can you name a single instance? And what does it mean to "protect its critical work force?" Employers keep their best employees around by paying them the market wage or better. FDR actually screwed that up by freezing wages during the war. That's how we got employer paid health insurance, if you don't recall. Companies couldn't offer critical employees higher wages, so they offered them free healthcare instead.

So you see, the market does a better job than some bureaucrat moron.

Free market would have been a disaster

Nope. The free market works beautifully every time it's tried.

Anyone who believes government can do a better job of allocating resources than the market is basically just a Marxist moron.