Wisconsin GOP: Forcing Women To Undergo Transvaginal Ultrasounds Is Our ‘Priority"

[TemplarKormac]

It's unconstitutional to put undue restrictions on abortion before fetal viability if the motive for the restriction is simply to support the State's interest in a potential life.

It's against the law to commit murder. In my state, if you kill a pregnant woman, and her child dies too; that's two counts of murder. It's a wonder why people like you never grasp the value of life.

Abortion is only murder where it's against the law.

To a guy like you who thinks guilty until proven innocent is part of American jurisprudence, I'm sure that fact inspires a good dose of bewilderment.

Hey, to me, murder is the premeditated termination of life. That's how it's determined when we convict an individual for shooting someone to death. I don't need law or jurisprudence to tell me that.

 

[CaféAuLait]

this red state govenment mandated "wand of shame" stuff has to end. Its only effective on gullible thumpers anyway.

It would be nice if one did not make garbage up about this supposed 'wand of shame'. The bill is clear, there is no mandate about vaginal ultrasounds and in fact states the woman CHOOSES which type of ultrasound she wants. The bill also states she does not have to see or hear the pictures or heartbeat.

...qualified person to perform, an ultrasound on the pregnant
woman using whichever transducer the woman chooses...

No person may require the pregnant woman to view the
ultrasound images or visualize any fetal heartbeat and no person, including the
pregnant woman, may be subject to any penalty if the pregnant woman declines to
view the images or visualize any heartbeat

https://docs.legis.wisconsin.gov/2013/related/proposals/sb206

 

[Dot Com]

why take 1/2 measures conz? Why not force American women to wear burkas as well?

 

[Noomi]

this red state govenment mandated "wand of shame" stuff has to end. Its only effective on gullible thumpers anyway.

It would be nice if one did not make garbage up about this supposed 'wand of shame'. The bill is clear, there is no mandate about vaginal ultrasounds and in fact states the woman CHOOSES which type of ultrasound she wants. The bill also states she does not have to see or hear the pictures or heartbeat.

...qualified person to perform, an ultrasound on the pregnant
woman using whichever transducer the woman chooses...

No person may require the pregnant woman to view the
ultrasound images or visualize any fetal heartbeat and no person, including the
pregnant woman, may be subject to any penalty if the pregnant woman declines to
view the images or visualize any heartbeat

https://docs.legis.wisconsin.gov/2013/related/proposals/sb206

Republicans would want to force her to have a transvaginal ultrasound.

 

[Noomi]

It's against the law to commit murder. In my state, if you kill a pregnant woman, and her child dies too; that's two counts of murder. It's a wonder why people like you never grasp the value of life.

In MY country, a fetus is not a person until it is born.

Your point?

 

[Noomi]

[

Read more: Ultrasound bill a 'priority' for anti-abortion lawmakers : Ct

Ah, but it requires, forces, SOME form of ultrasound to torture women who come to get a legal abortion?

Pretty awful behavior to force women to do that --- maybe you should try to make abortion illegal, don't just torture women because you can't get what you want forced onto people. Pretty low; I don't think you can go much lower, but you antiabortion people may well think of someway to maltreat women that's even worse.

Why not just be honest and decent? If you object, try to get abortion made illegal. If you fail, the democracy is against you, that's all. Give up and get a hobby.

You have made a lot of assumptions above because I was pointing out facts. Facts which have been ignored an abundance of times here on this thread. An ultrasound is ALREADY required to determine the age of the fetus by the doctor.

Abortion Forms Affiliated Medical Services Abortion Clinic

So if an ultrasound is already required to determine the age of the fetus, why does there need to be a bill making ultrasounds the law?

Hmm???

 

[Stephanie]

here is evil and he is President of our country..but he has no problems trying to restrict our second amendment rights

SNIP:
Obama threatens veto as fetal pain bill passes House

By Adelaide Mena
Washington D.C., Jun 18, 2013 / 05:22 pm (CNA/EWTN News).- Despite passing the U.S. House of Representatives, a bill to prohibit abortions after 20 weeks of pregnancy faces an uncertain future as President Obama's administration has suggested that he will veto it.

“(S)cience is on our side,” Representative Marsha Blackburn, (R- Tenn.) told MSNBC in an interview.

Blackburn joined other pro-life representatives, including Michelle Bachmann (R- Minn.) and Virginia Foxx (R- N.C.) in defending the Pain-Capable Unborn Child Protection Act, which would ban abortions 20 weeks into a pregnancy and later, based on science indicating that unborn children can feel pain by this point. Exceptions in cases of rape, incest or a risk to the mother’s life were included in the final House version of the legislation.

The House of Representatives approved the bill by a vote of 228-196 on June 18, following its passage by the House Judiciary Committee. The legislation will now advance to the Senate, where opponents have vowed to fight it.

The Obama Administration has said that should the legislation gain the approval of both the House and Senate, the president's “senior advisors would recommend that he veto this bill.”

A statement of administration policy criticized the bill, saying that it “would unacceptably restrict women's health and reproductive rights and is an assault on a woman's right to choose.”

The statement alleged that the legislation “is a direct challenge to Roe v. Wade and shows contempt for women's health and rights, the role doctors play in their patients' health care decisions, and the Constitution.”

It is unclear how the Supreme Court would react to the pro-life legislation were it to be challenged as a violation of the 1973 Roe v. Wade decision.

Pro-life advocates pointed to polls showing that the majority of Americans support restricting late-term abortions.

all of it here
Obama threatens veto as fetal pain bill passes House :: Catholic News Agency (CNA)

 

[TemplarKormac]

It's against the law to commit murder. In my state, if you kill a pregnant woman, and her child dies too; that's two counts of murder. It's a wonder why people like you never grasp the value of life.

In MY country, a fetus is not a person until it is born.

Your point?

My point? You don't live in my country. Therefore your definition of what is and isn't a person is irrelevant. Your laws have no hold here.

 

[Stephanie]

It's against the law to commit murder. In my state, if you kill a pregnant woman, and her child dies too; that's two counts of murder. It's a wonder why people like you never grasp the value of life.

In MY country, a fetus is not a person until it is born.

Your point?

well if that helps you sleep at night..

 

[Noomi]

It's against the law to commit murder. In my state, if you kill a pregnant woman, and her child dies too; that's two counts of murder. It's a wonder why people like you never grasp the value of life.

In MY country, a fetus is not a person until it is born.

Your point?

My point? You don't live in my country. Therefore your definition of what is and isn't a person is irrelevant. Your laws have no hold here.

Coming from a country that says that a fetus is a person some of the time, but not all of the time (fetus homicide laws) you can't really talk.

 

[Noomi]

It's against the law to commit murder. In my state, if you kill a pregnant woman, and her child dies too; that's two counts of murder. It's a wonder why people like you never grasp the value of life.

In MY country, a fetus is not a person until it is born.

Your point?

well if that helps you sleep at night..

It does, because if a fetus was a person, thousands of women would be facing a judge for a charge of manslaughter or murder.

 

[Vox]

this red state govenment mandated "wand of shame" stuff has to end. Its only effective on gullible thumpers anyway.

It would be nice if one did not make garbage up about this supposed 'wand of shame'. The bill is clear, there is no mandate about vaginal ultrasounds and in fact states the woman CHOOSES which type of ultrasound she wants. The bill also states she does not have to see or hear the pictures or heartbeat.

No person may require the pregnant woman to view the
ultrasound images or visualize any fetal heartbeat and no person, including the
pregnant woman, may be subject to any penalty if the pregnant woman declines to
view the images or visualize any heartbeat

https://docs.legis.wisconsin.gov/2013/related/proposals/sb206

Republicans would want to force her to have a transvaginal ultrasound.

now we add to our libs an Australian lair
you have a reading comprehension problem? Nobody either requires or even does a vaginal US

 

[TemplarKormac]

In MY country, a fetus is not a person until it is born.

Your point?

My point? You don't live in my country. Therefore your definition of what is and isn't a person is irrelevant. Your laws have no hold here.

Coming from a country that says that a fetus is a person some of the time, but not all of the time (fetus homicide laws) you can't really talk.

Coming from someone who isn't subject to US Federal and State law, you have no standing, Noomi. You haven't a clue as to the complexities and nuances of our justice system.

 

[Stephanie]

In MY country, a fetus is not a person until it is born.

Your point?

well if that helps you sleep at night..

It does, because if a fetus was a person, thousands of women would be facing a judge for a charge of manslaughter or murder.

well then you have some stupid laws in your country..no wonder you care so little about a new human life it's all about you who are already born..selfish people

 

[Vox]

In MY country, a fetus is not a person until it is born.

Your point?

well if that helps you sleep at night..

It does, because if a fetus was a person, thousands of women would be facing a judge for a charge of manslaughter or murder.

eventually they will.

but your opinion is irrelevant

 

[OODA_Loop]

Transvaginal anything is hawt

 

[Obamanation]

In MY country, a fetus is not a person until it is born.

Your point?

well if that helps you sleep at night..

It does, because if a fetus was a person, thousands of women would be facing a judge for a charge of manslaughter or murder.

Don't worry! They WILL!!!!

 

[CaféAuLait]

this red state govenment mandated "wand of shame" stuff has to end. Its only effective on gullible thumpers anyway.

It would be nice if one did not make garbage up about this supposed 'wand of shame'. The bill is clear, there is no mandate about vaginal ultrasounds and in fact states the woman CHOOSES which type of ultrasound she wants. The bill also states she does not have to see or hear the pictures or heartbeat.

qualified person to perform, an ultrasound on the pregnant
woman using whichever transducer the woman chooses.

No person may require the pregnant woman to view the
ultrasound images or visualize any fetal heartbeat and no person, including the
pregnant woman, may be subject to any penalty if the pregnant woman declines to
view the images or visualize any heartbeat

https://docs.legis.wisconsin.gov/2013/related/proposals/sb206

Republicans would want to force her to have a transvaginal ultrasound.

If that were the case why isn't that language written into the bill, since republican wrote it? It is very specific a transvaginal ultrasound is NOT required. Just some made up bull to scare women and have people hate for things which are not written or even required.

 

[CaféAuLait]

Ah, but it requires, forces, SOME form of ultrasound to torture women who come to get a legal abortion?

Pretty awful behavior to force women to do that --- maybe you should try to make abortion illegal, don't just torture women because you can't get what you want forced onto people. Pretty low; I don't think you can go much lower, but you antiabortion people may well think of someway to maltreat women that's even worse.

Why not just be honest and decent? If you object, try to get abortion made illegal. If you fail, the democracy is against you, that's all. Give up and get a hobby.

You have made a lot of assumptions above because I was pointing out facts. Facts which have been ignored an abundance of times here on this thread. An ultrasound is cervixALREADY required to determine the age of the fetus by the doctor.

Abortion Forms Affiliated Medical Services Abortion Clinic

So if an ultrasound is already required to determine the age of the fetus, why does there need to be a bill making ultrasounds the law?

Hmm???

As I said the law is redundant. I linked to it as well. Doctors use the ultrasound to determine the age of the fetus. The bill above requires the counseling ( which is already required) i.e. informed consent and the ultrasound to be completed within 24 hours of the abortion. That is not a law as it stands. One can go to a facility the doctor can determine age, council and then perform the abortion in the weeks to come.

 

[CaféAuLait]

In MY country, a fetus is not a person until it is born.

Your point?

My point? You don't live in my country. Therefore your definition of what is and isn't a person is irrelevant. Your laws have no hold here.

Coming from a country that says that a fetus is a person some of the time, but not all of the time (fetus homicide laws) you can't really talk.

Australia has fetal homicide laws too.

And one of the most liberal states has those confusing laws on the books, California.

It also looks like some places in Australia, like Queensland already have such laws and others like Perth are trying to change the law to reflect fetal homicide laws.

But Mr Porter said the new fetal homicide laws would create a new criminal code offence of causing death or grievous bodily harm to an unborn child.

Based on a law already in force in Queensland, it would carry a maximum penalty of life imprisonment.

Offenders who kill or intend to kill an unborn baby by assaulting a mother will face mandatory life imprisonment - the same as a murder charge in all but exceptional circumstances.

There would be no limit on when an unborn baby was considered to be a human life.

Fetal homicide laws to be introduced in Western Australia | Perth Now