Women should dress modestly or expect to 'entice a rapist...'

[Mac1958]

Myths & Truths about Rape | Rape Crisis

MYTH: Women who wear revealing clothing invite men to rape them.

Appearance and clothing have nothing to do with who gets raped. Women are raped no matter what they wear: babies in nappies, old women in tracksuits and nuns in habits also get raped.

TRUTH: Clothing does not determine who gets raped.

No one here is saying that "women who wear revealing clothing invite men to rape them".

It's too bad we can't have an honest conversation about this.
.

That is exactly what you are saying in a round about way.

No it isn't. You just won't be honest.
.

Yes . . . it is. And if not, then what is your point?

I'll try to make this as clear and parsed as I can so that you can't distort it.

If a woman wears clothing that might be considered sexy or provocative by some guy, any guy, the chances of something happening that she doesn't want have increased by some measure, even if it's 0.1%. "Something that she doesn't want" could be some slob coming on too strong, some sick asshole thinking "she's asking for it", you name it. Or it could lead to a sexual encounter that is perceived by the man as consensual but NOT considered consensual by the woman. Which, as any honest person will admit, does happen.

It would therefore be in the woman's best interests to simply consider that fact when deciding what she's going to wear, where she is going to go, and with whom she is going to go. No, it shouldn't be that way, it's a goddamn shame, but it's better to deal with reality than to see the worst happen. It only needs to happen once.

If that isn't clear enough for you, there's nothing else I can do.
.

 

[ChrisL]

Myths & Truths about Rape | Rape Crisis

MYTH: Women who wear revealing clothing invite men to rape them.

Appearance and clothing have nothing to do with who gets raped. Women are raped no matter what they wear: babies in nappies, old women in tracksuits and nuns in habits also get raped.

TRUTH: Clothing does not determine who gets raped.

No one here is saying that "women who wear revealing clothing invite men to rape them".

It's too bad we can't have an honest conversation about this.
.

That is exactly what you are saying in a round about way.

No it isn't. You just won't be honest.
.

Yes . . . it is. And if not, then what is your point?

I'll try to make this as clear and parsed as I can so that you can't distort it.

If a woman wears clothing that might be considered sexy or provocative by some guy, any guy, the chances of something happening that she doesn't want have increased by some measure, even if it's 0.1%. "Something that she doesn't want" could be some slob coming on too strong, some sick asshole thinking "she's asking for it", you name it. Or it could lead to a sexual encounter that is perceived by the man as consensual but NOT considered consensual by the woman. Which, as any honest person will admit, does happen.

It would therefore be in the woman's best interests to simply consider that fact when deciding what she's going to wear, where she is going to go, and with whom she is going to go. No, it shouldn't be that way, it's a goddamn shame, but it's better to deal with reality than to see the worst happen. It only needs to happen once.

If that isn't clear enough for you, there's nothing else I can do.
.

And I will try to make THIS as clear as possible for you. It does NOT matter what you are wearing. Rapists are looking for a victim and rape is a crime of opportunity. Rapists are SICK people. Some of them ARE actually turned on by a more conservative appearing woman, and THAT is why conservatively dressed women are ALSO raped.

 

[Wyatt earp]

I can only speak for myself....

You have to know where to "draw the line" - depending on the type of guy you run across, a normal/rational guy will back off - someone that just wants power/control won't.....

Dealing with a "random rape" - there is no telling....

In a situation where you are leading someone on, if you lead the wrong kind of guy or person on, or give cues that you are receptive to their attentions, you need to be prepared for a variety of responses.

There are some that won't handle rejection well, especially if they feel you were giving them a message to the contrary.....

And that has absolutely nothing to do with how you are dressed.

I know how I dress will effect how people think about me (right or wrong)
Whether I CARE or not is another story......

Does not matter, and you are getting off topic a bit. Do you think that the woman holds some responsibility for her own rape because she is dressed provocatively? Perhaps like the first woman in your picture. I mean, people here are saying my avatar is "provocative" yet the woman in your picture is probably showing MORE skin than I am in my avatar. So . . . is she inviting rape?

There is NEVER an excuse for rape.
There are things women can to do not give men the wrong idea......
There are too many kinds of rape, so, let's just use "date rape" as an example.

Say, a girl is drinking, dressed sexy, flirting heavily etc. and the guy gets worked up and takes advantage of the situation....

He's wrong, no doubt, if the sex was not wanted, but, the woman could have also not put herself in a situation like that - lessen the odds of anything happening.

It's like walking in a bad neighborhood you know is bad.... if a criminal robs, rapes or kills you, they are still wrong but it's not wise to put yourself in that situation.....

I guess we should just STOP all social interaction with men. Then we would be safe, right?

Nope, just be careful about where you are, what you say, and how you come across.
I think you just need to be SMART about your actions - like I said about walking around in a bad neighborhood.
You don't HAVE to.
You have a right to be, dress etc. whatever you want, but there may be consequences.

That's not right to say, what if a girls car brakes down coming from a club?

I know Chris is a liberal so she is going to be mad at me, but what about teaching young boys morals?

Hell, one time around 28 years old a hot girl I was great friends With since 14 year's years old we went out, got drunk as heck and ended up in bed... I finally came to my senses and pulled out. I told her I couldn't, she told me she wanted to...

No it was to weird. We were friends for to long.

 

[ChrisL]

Myths & Truths about Rape | Rape Crisis

MYTH: Women who wear revealing clothing invite men to rape them.

Appearance and clothing have nothing to do with who gets raped. Women are raped no matter what they wear: babies in nappies, old women in tracksuits and nuns in habits also get raped.

TRUTH: Clothing does not determine who gets raped.

No one here is saying that "women who wear revealing clothing invite men to rape them".

It's too bad we can't have an honest conversation about this.
.

That is exactly what you are saying in a round about way.

No it isn't. You just won't be honest.
.

Yes . . . it is. And if not, then what is your point?

I'll try to make this as clear and parsed as I can so that you can't distort it.

If a woman wears clothing that might be considered sexy or provocative by some guy, any guy, the chances of something happening that she doesn't want have increased by some measure, even if it's 0.1%. "Something that she doesn't want" could be some slob coming on too strong, some sick asshole thinking "she's asking for it", you name it. Or it could lead to a sexual encounter that is perceived by the man as consensual but NOT considered consensual by the woman. Which, as any honest person will admit, does happen.

It would therefore be in the woman's best interests to simply consider that fact when deciding what she's going to wear, where she is going to go, and with whom she is going to go. No, it shouldn't be that way, it's a goddamn shame, but it's better to deal with reality than to see the worst happen. It only needs to happen once.

If that isn't clear enough for you, there's nothing else I can do.
.

Since there is NO TELLING what a rapist might find appealing, you might as well tell woman to not interact with men at all and to not leave their homes.

 

[Mac1958]

No one here is saying that "women who wear revealing clothing invite men to rape them".

It's too bad we can't have an honest conversation about this.
.

That is exactly what you are saying in a round about way.

No it isn't. You just won't be honest.
.

Yes . . . it is. And if not, then what is your point?

I'll try to make this as clear and parsed as I can so that you can't distort it.

If a woman wears clothing that might be considered sexy or provocative by some guy, any guy, the chances of something happening that she doesn't want have increased by some measure, even if it's 0.1%. "Something that she doesn't want" could be some slob coming on too strong, some sick asshole thinking "she's asking for it", you name it. Or it could lead to a sexual encounter that is perceived by the man as consensual but NOT considered consensual by the woman. Which, as any honest person will admit, does happen.

It would therefore be in the woman's best interests to simply consider that fact when deciding what she's going to wear, where she is going to go, and with whom she is going to go. No, it shouldn't be that way, it's a goddamn shame, but it's better to deal with reality than to see the worst happen. It only needs to happen once.

If that isn't clear enough for you, there's nothing else I can do.
.

And I will try to make THIS as clear as possible for you. It does NOT matter what you are wearing. Rapists are looking for a victim and rape is a crime of opportunity. Rapists are SICK people. Some of them ARE actually turned on by a more conservative appearing woman, and THAT is why conservatively dressed women are ALSO raped.

So you read all that and assumed I was only talking about "rapists".

Okay, never mind. Somehow I knew I was wasting my time.
.

 

[ChrisL]

I can only speak for myself....

You have to know where to "draw the line" - depending on the type of guy you run across, a normal/rational guy will back off - someone that just wants power/control won't.....

Dealing with a "random rape" - there is no telling....

In a situation where you are leading someone on, if you lead the wrong kind of guy or person on, or give cues that you are receptive to their attentions, you need to be prepared for a variety of responses.

There are some that won't handle rejection well, especially if they feel you were giving them a message to the contrary.....

And that has absolutely nothing to do with how you are dressed.

I know how I dress will effect how people think about me (right or wrong)
Whether I CARE or not is another story......

Does not matter, and you are getting off topic a bit. Do you think that the woman holds some responsibility for her own rape because she is dressed provocatively? Perhaps like the first woman in your picture. I mean, people here are saying my avatar is "provocative" yet the woman in your picture is probably showing MORE skin than I am in my avatar. So . . . is she inviting rape?

There is NEVER an excuse for rape.
There are things women can to do not give men the wrong idea......
There are too many kinds of rape, so, let's just use "date rape" as an example.

Say, a girl is drinking, dressed sexy, flirting heavily etc. and the guy gets worked up and takes advantage of the situation....

He's wrong, no doubt, if the sex was not wanted, but, the woman could have also not put herself in a situation like that - lessen the odds of anything happening.

It's like walking in a bad neighborhood you know is bad.... if a criminal robs, rapes or kills you, they are still wrong but it's not wise to put yourself in that situation.....

I guess we should just STOP all social interaction with men. Then we would be safe, right?

Nope, just be careful about where you are, what you say, and how you come across.
I think you just need to be SMART about your actions - like I said about walking around in a bad neighborhood.
You don't HAVE to.
You have a right to be, dress etc. whatever you want, but there may be consequences.

That's not right to say, what if a girls car brakes down coming from a club?

I know Chris is a liberal so she is going to be mad at me, but what about teaching young boys morals?

Hell, one time around 28 years old a hot girl I was great friends With since 14 year's years old we went out, got drunk as heck and ended up in bed... I finally came to my senses and pulled out. I told her I couldn't, she told me she wanted to...

No it was to weird. We were friends for to long.

I'm not a liberal. I'm a centrist. I took a test!!!

 

[ChrisL]

That is exactly what you are saying in a round about way.

No it isn't. You just won't be honest.
.

Yes . . . it is. And if not, then what is your point?

I'll try to make this as clear and parsed as I can so that you can't distort it.

If a woman wears clothing that might be considered sexy or provocative by some guy, any guy, the chances of something happening that she doesn't want have increased by some measure, even if it's 0.1%. "Something that she doesn't want" could be some slob coming on too strong, some sick asshole thinking "she's asking for it", you name it. Or it could lead to a sexual encounter that is perceived by the man as consensual but NOT considered consensual by the woman. Which, as any honest person will admit, does happen.

It would therefore be in the woman's best interests to simply consider that fact when deciding what she's going to wear, where she is going to go, and with whom she is going to go. No, it shouldn't be that way, it's a goddamn shame, but it's better to deal with reality than to see the worst happen. It only needs to happen once.

If that isn't clear enough for you, there's nothing else I can do.
.

And I will try to make THIS as clear as possible for you. It does NOT matter what you are wearing. Rapists are looking for a victim and rape is a crime of opportunity. Rapists are SICK people. Some of them ARE actually turned on by a more conservative appearing woman, and THAT is why conservatively dressed women are ALSO raped.

So you read all that and assumed I was only talking about "rapists".

Okay, never mind. Somehow I knew I was wasting my time.
.

That is what we are discussing. Rape. And again, you are wrong. You might as well tell women to stop all social interaction with men because one of them might decide to rape her.

 

[DigitalDrifter]

Myths & Truths about Rape | Rape Crisis

MYTH: Women who wear revealing clothing invite men to rape them.

Appearance and clothing have nothing to do with who gets raped. Women are raped no matter what they wear: babies in nappies, old women in tracksuits and nuns in habits also get raped.

TRUTH: Clothing does not determine who gets raped.

No one here is saying that "women who wear revealing clothing invite men to rape them".

It's too bad we can't have an honest conversation about this.
.

That is exactly what you are saying in a round about way.

No it isn't. You just won't be honest.
.

Yes . . . it is. And if not, then what is your point?

I'll try to make this as clear and parsed as I can so that you can't distort it.

If a woman wears clothing that might be considered sexy or provocative by some guy, any guy, the chances of something happening that she doesn't want have increased by some measure, even if it's 0.1%. "Something that she doesn't want" could be some slob coming on too strong, some sick asshole thinking "she's asking for it", you name it. Or it could lead to a sexual encounter that is perceived by the man as consensual but NOT considered consensual by the woman. Which, as any honest person will admit, does happen.

It would therefore be in the woman's best interests to simply consider that fact when deciding what she's going to wear, where she is going to go, and with whom she is going to go. No, it shouldn't be that way, it's a goddamn shame, but it's better to deal with reality than to see the worst happen. It only needs to happen once.

If that isn't clear enough for you, there's nothing else I can do.
.

You obviously believe the woman asked for it, and are blaming her for the actions of the man.

 

[Ravi]

In this instance, I think it's not so much the clothes as the flirtation and teasing of the woman that may lead to date rape.

.

Exactly. It is a crime of opportunism. And you don't have to dress sexy to flirt.

 

[DigitalDrifter]

Myths & Truths about Rape | Rape Crisis

MYTH: Women who wear revealing clothing invite men to rape them.

Appearance and clothing have nothing to do with who gets raped. Women are raped no matter what they wear: babies in nappies, old women in tracksuits and nuns in habits also get raped.

TRUTH: Clothing does not determine who gets raped.

Oh geeze ! (insert rolling eyes emoticon here)

No one is saying what you wear "invites" a man to rape you, that is so stupid it's barely worth responding to.

I have lost the will to repeat what I've been saying over and over.

 

[Ravi]

And again, we agree. Many men feel that a woman who would go out of their way to dress seductively are easy.
.

Thinking a woman is "easy" and raping her are two completely different things. Your statements are beginning to get more and MORE ridiculous.

You're just not being honest.

Rape isn't black and white. The two people involved can have different opinions, and it happens all the time.

Admit it or not, this is (sadly) a gray area.
.

But you are the one INSISTING it has to do with clothing when we all KNOW it does not. Many, many, many women who were NOT dressed sexy have been raped. MANY.

No, I'm not insisting anything. Back you go to the absolutism.

I'm saying that, even if it is to the slightest degree, chances are increased.

It's you folks who are doing the insisting.
.

Do you have anything at all to back up your claims. Are there ANY studies or statistics that state women who wear sexy clothes or flirt get raped more often?

I asked for that yesterday and heard crickets. These people put a lot of faith in urban legend.

 

[tigerred59]

So says Chrissie Hynde...

Singer Chrissie Hynde has come under fire for suggesting it can be a woman's fault if she is raped.

"You know if you don't want to entice a rapist, don't wear high heels so you can't run from him," she said, in an interview in the Sunday Times.

The Pretenders singer, 63, said she takes "full responsibility" after she was sexually assaulted aged 21 in Ohio.

"If I'm walking around in my underwear and I'm drunk. Who else's fault can it be?" Hynde told Krissi Murison.

Chrissie Hynde under fire for rape remarks


How ignorant can a person be? I don't care if a woman is walking naked down the middle of the street, she is not looking to be raped. Anyone who believes a person's attire is an invitation to rape needs a good slap to the head...

That theory would hold water, were it not for the number of rapes committed against the elderly in this country

 

[ChrisL]

Thinking a woman is "easy" and raping her are two completely different things. Your statements are beginning to get more and MORE ridiculous.

You're just not being honest.

Rape isn't black and white. The two people involved can have different opinions, and it happens all the time.

Admit it or not, this is (sadly) a gray area.
.

But you are the one INSISTING it has to do with clothing when we all KNOW it does not. Many, many, many women who were NOT dressed sexy have been raped. MANY.

No, I'm not insisting anything. Back you go to the absolutism.

I'm saying that, even if it is to the slightest degree, chances are increased.

It's you folks who are doing the insisting.
.

Do you have anything at all to back up your claims. Are there ANY studies or statistics that state women who wear sexy clothes or flirt get raped more often?

I asked for that yesterday and heard crickets. These people put a lot of faith in urban legend.

Exactly. No such correlation exists. It could be the sound of your voice. It could be the color of your hair or the color of your eyes, etc., etc., etc. Who knows what motivates the mentally disturbed?

 

[ChrisL]

These men on this thread are trying to connect "normal" male desire with the desires of a rapist. Apples and oranges.

 

[Bonzi]

In this instance, I think it's not so much the clothes as the flirtation and teasing of the woman that may lead to date rape.

.

Exactly. It is a crime of opportunism. And you don't have to dress sexy to flirt.

I could be in baggy sweat pants and a man's t-shirt, and, if I'm eyeing someone, talking, flirting and rubbing up against them etc., that would give them more of a "message" then a women in a bikini that just walks by...........

 

[Asclepias]

After sleeping on it I have to concede that choice of clothing can be a trigger. Not for sexual reasons but for an imagined slight of the rapists twisted moral views. His desire to control women and demonstrate his power could indeed play a major factor in his selection of a target. If the rapist believes that women should dress in a burka the sight of skin or cleavage could set them off.

 

[Asclepias]

The sad thing is that you will teach people that a woman can prevent rape by modifying her appearance while history shows that that is not the case.

He has not said that attire will "prevent" rape, that is just your warped interpretation.
What he and others have been saying, is that dressing provocatively can draw the kind of attention you may not want. Not guaranteed to get attention, but it can.

WHY IS THIS SO FUCKING HARD FOR YOU GUYS ?!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

There is something about this topic that invites people to abandon common sense and the simple application of caution they would recognition in any other context. And only in the instance of rape prevention have some laughably claimed that taking precautions is 'excusing' lawbreakers.

Oddly, no one insists you're 'excusing burglars' if you lock your doors at night. Or 'excusing muggers' if you look over your shoulder in a dark alley.

They have to know at some level. It's fascinating to observe, but you can't communicate with people who refuse to be honest.

I said this in post 333: "There is rape -- which, as I understand it, is essentially as it is portrayed by those here who are against what Hynde said -- and then there is the relatively long list of bad stuff that can happen when a guy gets too drunk and excited and horny -- some of which, by the way, could be construed as rape by some."

These people are choosing to remain locked in this binary argument: There is only one kind of rape, there is only one kind of rapist, rape only happens for one reason, there is only one environment in which an act can be interpreted as rape, rape only has one meaning every time. They leave no room for gray area or interpretation, which is precisely what would be needed in the real world if a young lady brought a rape charge. They are being absolutely absolutist. It's like trying to discuss taxes with a Tea Partier.

It amazes me, how similar the two ends are. I don't know how to deal with absolutists.

They have to know better, they're doing this on purpose, they're not being honest. Par for the course for the PC Police.
.

No, what people are trying to explain to you is that it does not matter WHAT THE HECK you are wearing. You will STILL get raped if there is a rapist in the room who decides he wants to rape you. It could be your hair color, your perfume, that you remind him of someone, etc., etc., etc.

So, women should no longer wear sexy clothes because we should fear that this would cause us to be raped??? That's ridiculous.

Ok, there's a rapist in the room. You're wearing a very short skirt and sheer blouse that exposes a very sexy bra. You act flirty and are drinking.
There's another woman in the room with very conservative attire and is speaking and acting in a very conservative and modest fashion.

Both leave the room and go their separate ways.

Who is the rapist more likely to follow ?

Depends. I think what you are really asking is who are you more likely to follow.

 

[Asclepias]

There is something about this topic that invites people to abandon common sense and the simple application of caution they would recognition in any other context. And only in the instance of rape prevention have some laughably claimed that taking precautions is 'excusing' lawbreakers.

Oddly, no one insists you're 'excusing burglars' if you lock your doors at night. Or 'excusing muggers' if you look over your shoulder in a dark alley.

They have to know at some level. It's fascinating to observe, but you can't communicate with people who refuse to be honest.

I said this in post 333: "There is rape -- which, as I understand it, is essentially as it is portrayed by those here who are against what Hynde said -- and then there is the relatively long list of bad stuff that can happen when a guy gets too drunk and excited and horny -- some of which, by the way, could be construed as rape by some."

These people are choosing to remain locked in this binary argument: There is only one kind of rape, there is only one kind of rapist, rape only happens for one reason, there is only one environment in which an act can be interpreted as rape, rape only has one meaning every time. They leave no room for gray area or interpretation, which is precisely what would be needed in the real world if a young lady brought a rape charge. They are being absolutely absolutist. It's like trying to discuss taxes with a Tea Partier.

It amazes me, how similar the two ends are. I don't know how to deal with absolutists.

They have to know better, they're doing this on purpose, they're not being honest. Par for the course for the PC Police.
.

No, what people are trying to explain to you is that it does not matter WHAT THE HECK you are wearing. You will STILL get raped if there is a rapist in the room who decides he wants to rape you. It could be your hair color, your perfume, that you remind him of someone, etc., etc., etc.

So, women should no longer wear sexy clothes because we should fear that this would cause us to be raped??? That's ridiculous.

Ok, there's a rapist in the room. You're wearing a very short skirt and sheer blouse that exposes a very sexy bra. You act flirty and are drinking.
There's another woman in the room with very conservative attire and is speaking and acting in a very conservative and modest fashion.

Both leave the room and go their separate ways.

Who is the rapist more likely to follow ?

A rapist would sometimes probably AVOID the loud-mouthed drunk girl who is making a scene. The quiet demure shy woman might be the bigger turn on for HIM. Rape is USUALLY a crime of opportunity. They really are NOT that choosy in most instances. They are seeking out a VICTIM.

The provocatively dressed woman will get more attention from someone seeking sexual gratification.

Rape is not about sexual gratification. Its about power.

 

[Wyatt earp]

In this instance, I think it's not so much the clothes as the flirtation and teasing of the woman that may lead to date rape.

.

Exactly. It is a crime of opportunism. And you don't have to dress sexy to flirt.

I could be in baggy sweat pants and a man's t-shirt, and, if I'm eyeing someone, talking, flirting and rubbing up against them etc., that would give them more of a "message" then a women in a bikini that just walks by...........

But we wouldn't want to rape you.. Just to get to know you more.

It would be the same thing if you wear wearing something hot.

 

[Bonzi]

I don't think sexy clothes causes men to rape women.
I DO think sexy clothes will increase the likelihood of male attention, and thus, increase odds of possible unwanted attention - you would really have to look at a study/statistics to see, but, I think it's more a matter of the position you put yourself in (area, character of people etc.)

There is no way you can prevent being raped unless you are in solitary confinement - but I think there are things you can do to DECREASE your odds......