"You didn't get there on your own"

[EdwardBaiamonte]

Those who have actually studied Keynesian Economics know that it does allow modest deficit SHORT TERM deficit spending to stimulate the economy, but the theories also require that the term of deficit spending to be short, specific, with the shortage returned to the Treasury right away.

I think you are giving Keynes way too much credit. He was firstly, a liberal of the worst sort. He was a monumental ego manic who literally saw himself as an apostle.

In The General Theory he said he could tweek every little thing about the economy much like a race car mechanic to keep it performing optimally.

If Keynes meant anything specific other than, I'm the apostle so let me run the world, we would all know exactly what Keynesian economics was.

 

[Bfgrn]

A better version

Schnitt Show "we built this business" You Didn't Build That Business Obama Parody - YouTube
obama trying to dumb down people to think things are not owned by them but the collective.

Yes, the whole speech was an affirmation of the collective rather than individual effort.

I will have to say though, in the interest of truth in advertising and all that, the Schmidt video was dishonest in one respect. The 'you didn't build that' was referring to the infrastructure and not the business itself, and the video went out of its way to avoid acknowledging the correct interpretation. And I think we have to be honest about that or we lose credibility. The whole speech in context of course was to say that we who have businesses can't take any credit for them but rather we owe everybody for whatever success we have--you know, Marxism in its purest form.

Are you being disingenuous or just obtuse Foxfyre? The context of his speech is if Americans believe another round of tax cuts for the wealthy is going to benefit the middle class. Or if we need to go back to a tax structure that worked very well during the Clinton era.

 

[Bfgrn]

My comment re Keynesian economics had absolutely nothing to do with tax cuts, Bfgn, but is pertinent to the President's desire to increase government spending. But thanks for throwing another red herring into the debate.

Let's focus on the topic.

Focus? HERE is what YOU said:

Those who have actually studied Keynesian Economics know that it does allow modest deficit SHORT TERM deficit spending to stimulate the economy, but the theories also require that the term of deficit spending to be short, specific, with the shortage returned to the Treasury right away.

HERE is what YOUR beloved conservative icon Vice President said:

'You know, Paul, Reagan proved that deficits don't matter. We won the mid-term elections, this is our due.'

 

[Neotrotsky]

A better version

Schnitt Show "we built this business" You Didn't Build That Business Obama Parody - YouTube
obama trying to dumb down people to think things are not owned by them but the collective.

Yes, the whole speech was an affirmation of the collective rather than individual effort.

I will have to say though, in the interest of truth in advertising and all that, the Schmidt video was dishonest in one respect. The 'you didn't build that' was referring to the infrastructure and not the business itself, and the video went out of its way to avoid acknowledging the correct interpretation. And I think we have to be honest about that or we lose credibility. The whole speech in context of course was to say that we who have businesses can't take any credit for them but rather we owe everybody for whatever success we have--you know, Marxism in its purest form.

The left presents a false argument about Clinton's taxes

Notice how they don't want to go back to Clinton's lower spending levels
due to having a Republican congress

 

[Mac1958]

Jesus, you vile filthy lying bigot shitbag bagging morons are still at it I see.

Gotta be among the top 3 most hate-filled posters here.

.

 

[Neotrotsky]

Jesus, you vile filthy lying bigot shitbag bagging morons are still at it I see.

Gotta be among the top 3 most hate-filled posters here.

.

Top 3 most stupid, as well

No doubt they are part of the Papa Obama Truth Goon squad

 

[saveliberty]

An entire speech aimed at insulting small business owners and demonizing them for the case of taxing them more. Obama considers it program cuts when it will happen years after he's out of office? It was an entitlement expansion speech too. Fill the coffers for more giveaways.

 

[saveliberty]

Jesus, you vile filthy lying bigot shitbag bagging morons are still at it I see.

Gotta be among the top 3 most hate-filled posters here.

.

I don't think he likes the other two guys on the list either.

 

[Listening]

Those who have actually studied Keynesian Economics know that it does allow modest deficit SHORT TERM deficit spending to stimulate the economy, but the theories also require that the term of deficit spending to be short, specific, with the shortage returned to the Treasury right away.

Deficit spending to be repaid ten to twenty years down the road is NOT Keynesian economics or anything other than gross irresponsibility.

Thank you for the opening...

Paul O'Neill, George W. Bush's first Treasury Secretary - 60 Minutes


The president had promised to cut taxes, and he did. Within six months of taking office, he pushed a trillion dollars worth of tax cuts through Congress.

But O'Neill thought it should have been the end. After 9/11 and the war in Afghanistan, the budget deficit was growing. So at a meeting with the vice president after the mid-term elections in 2002, O'Neill argued against a second round of tax cuts.

"Cheney, at this moment, shows his hand," says Suskind. "He says, 'You know, Paul, Reagan proved that deficits don't matter. We won the mid-term elections, this is our due.' … O'Neill is speechless."

"It was not just about not wanting the tax cut. It was about how to use the nation's resources to improve the condition of our society," says O'Neill. "And I thought the weight of working on Social Security and fundamental tax reform was a lot more important than a tax reduction."

So what ?

What is your point.

Cheney said it. So what ?

That is an opening. You needed someone to lead you to this ?

Your whole "if you can't dazzle them with brilliance then baffle them with bulls**t" approach is all to worn out.

The first time I heard that, I knew Cheney was wrong.

You are a tool. A locked up brain dead tool.

 

[Mac1958]

Jesus, you vile filthy lying bigot shitbag bagging morons are still at it I see.

Gotta be among the top 3 most hate-filled posters here.

.

I don't think he likes the other two guys on the list either.

.

 

[Listening]

My comment re Keynesian economics had absolutely nothing to do with tax cuts, Bfgn, but is pertinent to the President's desire to increase government spending. But thanks for throwing another red herring into the debate.

Let's focus on the topic.

Focus? HERE is what YOU said:

Those who have actually studied Keynesian Economics know that it does allow modest deficit SHORT TERM deficit spending to stimulate the economy, but the theories also require that the term of deficit spending to be short, specific, with the shortage returned to the Treasury right away.

HERE is what YOUR beloved conservative icon Vice President said:

'You know, Paul, Reagan proved that deficits don't matter. We won the mid-term elections, this is our due.'

Wow....

Rush said this....the whole right thinks like Rush.

Cheney said that .....everyone owns it.

Is everyone on the left so stupid ?

 

[saveliberty]

Interesting Bfgrn wants political figures held to their word, but we are obsessing about Obama's recent speech.

 

[saveliberty]

Wow....

Rush said this....the whole right thinks like Rush.

Cheney said that .....everyone owns it.

Is everyone on the left so stupid ?

In my experience, you don't always want to know the answers to questions you ask.

 

[ShaklesOfBigGov]

That's what I've been doing ed, and you continue your ignorant drone.

Why be so afraid to give us your best example of defeating our founders central principle??? What does your fear tell us about your IQ and character.

Our founder's seminal achievement on this planet can be expressed in one word. It is not corporation, it is not privatization, and it is not marketism...

It is government.

"The equal rights of man, and the happiness of every individual, are now acknowledged to be the only legitimate objects of government. Modern times have the signal advantage, too, of having discovered the only device by which these rights can be secured, to wit: government by the people, acting not in person, but by representatives chosen by themselves, that is to say, by every man of ripe years and sane mind, who contributes either by his purse or person to the support of his country." --Thomas Jefferson to A. Coray, 1823. ME 15:482

A Republic.

A limited or restricted federal government.

That is what they gave us.

The only issue is that you bastards don't seem to understand what restricted means.

You'd have Uncle Sam changing your depends if you could.[/QUOTE]


You can go even further with the founders intent on a restrictive government:

"Good intentions will always be pleaded for any assumption of power. The Constitution was made to guard the people against the dangers of good intentions. There are men in all ages who mean to govern well, but they mean to govern. They promise to be good masters, but they mean to be masters."
Daniel Webster

"A government big enough to give you everything you want, is strong enough to take everything you have."
Thomas Jefferson

"The Constitutions of most of our states (and of the United States) assert that all power is inherent in the people [not of the government]; that they may exercise it by themselves; that it is their right and duty to be at all times armed."
Thomas Jefferson.

"When the government fears the people, there is liberty; when the people fear the government, there is tyranny."
Benjamin Franklin

"Congress has not unlimited powers to provide for the general welfare but only those specifically enumerated."
Thomas Jefferson

"A free people ought not only to be armed and disciplined but they should have sufficient arms and ammunition to maintain a status of independence from any who might attempt to abuse them, which would include their own government."
George Washington


The Founders believed there ought to be LIMITS to what the Federal Government can do, they wrote the Constitution to set boundaries that they believed the individual branches of "government" must follow. If (as some on the left would have us believe) the Constitution "evolves" and more government restricts and regulations over its people are necessary, then this form of "government" becomes the very controlling tyrant over individual liberty that the colonists fought to escape from with England!

 

[Bfgrn]

Those who have actually studied Keynesian Economics know that it does allow modest deficit SHORT TERM deficit spending to stimulate the economy, but the theories also require that the term of deficit spending to be short, specific, with the shortage returned to the Treasury right away.

Deficit spending to be repaid ten to twenty years down the road is NOT Keynesian economics or anything other than gross irresponsibility.

Thank you for the opening...

Paul O'Neill, George W. Bush's first Treasury Secretary - 60 Minutes


The president had promised to cut taxes, and he did. Within six months of taking office, he pushed a trillion dollars worth of tax cuts through Congress.

But O'Neill thought it should have been the end. After 9/11 and the war in Afghanistan, the budget deficit was growing. So at a meeting with the vice president after the mid-term elections in 2002, O'Neill argued against a second round of tax cuts.

"Cheney, at this moment, shows his hand," says Suskind. "He says, 'You know, Paul, Reagan proved that deficits don't matter. We won the mid-term elections, this is our due.' … O'Neill is speechless."

"It was not just about not wanting the tax cut. It was about how to use the nation's resources to improve the condition of our society," says O'Neill. "And I thought the weight of working on Social Security and fundamental tax reform was a lot more important than a tax reduction."

So what ?

What is your point.

Cheney said it. So what ?

That is an opening. You needed someone to lead you to this ?

Your whole "if you can't dazzle them with brilliance then baffle them with bulls**t" approach is all to worn out.

The first time I heard that, I knew Cheney was wrong.

You are a tool. A locked up brain dead tool.

There was not a fucking PEEP from you right wingers when Reagan raised debt ceiling 18 times and George W. Bush raised it 7 times.

What we heard from you tools was parroting of what Cheney said.

AGAIN...

Where did our debt come from? When did massive debt become part of the American economy?

Reagan switched the federal government from what he critically called, a “tax and spend” policy, to a “borrow and spend” policy, where the government continued its heavy spending, but used borrowed money instead of tax revenue to pay the bills. The results were catastrophic. Although it had taken the United States more than 200 years to accumulate the first $1 trillion of national debt, it took only five years under Reagan to add the second one trillion dollars to the debt. By the end of the 12 years of the Reagan-Bush administrations, the national debt had quadrupled to $4 trillion!

And where was all this angst and concern about debt from conservatives when Bush and Republicans controlled the White House and both houses of Congress for almost a decade??? When Bush was starting a 3 trillion dollar war of ideology in Iraq, there was not a fucking PEEP from you right wingers, just cheers and 'bring 'em on'... And where was this less government mantra? You right wingers LOVED BIG government and government intervention into people lives... the Patriot Act, trashing habeas corpus, the Geneva Conventions and the US War Crimes Act.

And what was the concern in the Bush administration about debt and deficits? NONE...Bush's solution was to eliminate the voices of concern. He FIRED Paul O'Neill.

 

[The T]

Thank you for the opening...

Paul O'Neill, George W. Bush's first Treasury Secretary - 60 Minutes


The president had promised to cut taxes, and he did. Within six months of taking office, he pushed a trillion dollars worth of tax cuts through Congress.

But O'Neill thought it should have been the end. After 9/11 and the war in Afghanistan, the budget deficit was growing. So at a meeting with the vice president after the mid-term elections in 2002, O'Neill argued against a second round of tax cuts.

"Cheney, at this moment, shows his hand," says Suskind. "He says, 'You know, Paul, Reagan proved that deficits don't matter. We won the mid-term elections, this is our due.' … O'Neill is speechless."

"It was not just about not wanting the tax cut. It was about how to use the nation's resources to improve the condition of our society," says O'Neill. "And I thought the weight of working on Social Security and fundamental tax reform was a lot more important than a tax reduction."

So what ?

What is your point.

Cheney said it. So what ?

That is an opening. You needed someone to lead you to this ?

Your whole "if you can't dazzle them with brilliance then baffle them with bulls**t" approach is all to worn out.

The first time I heard that, I knew Cheney was wrong.

You are a tool. A locked up brain dead tool.

There was not a fucking PEEP from you right wingers when Reagan raised debt ceiling 18 times and George W. Bush raised it 7 times.

What we heard from you tools was parroting of what Cheney said.

AGAIN...

Where did our debt come from? When did massive debt become part of the American economy?

Reagan switched the federal government from what he critically called, a “tax and spend” policy, to a “borrow and spend” policy, where the government continued its heavy spending, but used borrowed money instead of tax revenue to pay the bills. The results were catastrophic. Although it had taken the United States more than 200 years to accumulate the first $1 trillion of national debt, it took only five years under Reagan to add the second one trillion dollars to the debt. By the end of the 12 years of the Reagan-Bush administrations, the national debt had quadrupled to $4 trillion!

And where was all this angst and concern about debt from conservatives when Bush and Republicans controlled the White House and both houses of Congress for almost a decade??? When Bush was starting a 3 trillion dollar war of ideology in Iraq, there was not a fucking PEEP from you right wingers, just cheers and 'bring 'em on'... And where was this less government mantra? You right wingers LOVED BIG government and government intervention into people lives... the Patriot Act, trashing habeas corpus, the Geneva Conventions and the US War Crimes Act.

And what was the concern in the Bush administration about debt and deficits? NONE...Bush's solution was to eliminate the voices of concern. He FIRED Paul O'Neill.

How many times are YOU gonna show that same chart BuFu?

And try to justify it wih Statist PAP?

ReallY?

 

[Listening]

Thank you for the opening...

Paul O'Neill, George W. Bush's first Treasury Secretary - 60 Minutes


The president had promised to cut taxes, and he did. Within six months of taking office, he pushed a trillion dollars worth of tax cuts through Congress.

But O'Neill thought it should have been the end. After 9/11 and the war in Afghanistan, the budget deficit was growing. So at a meeting with the vice president after the mid-term elections in 2002, O'Neill argued against a second round of tax cuts.

"Cheney, at this moment, shows his hand," says Suskind. "He says, 'You know, Paul, Reagan proved that deficits don't matter. We won the mid-term elections, this is our due.' … O'Neill is speechless."

"It was not just about not wanting the tax cut. It was about how to use the nation's resources to improve the condition of our society," says O'Neill. "And I thought the weight of working on Social Security and fundamental tax reform was a lot more important than a tax reduction."

So what ?

What is your point.

Cheney said it. So what ?

That is an opening. You needed someone to lead you to this ?

Your whole "if you can't dazzle them with brilliance then baffle them with bulls**t" approach is all to worn out.

The first time I heard that, I knew Cheney was wrong.

You are a tool. A locked up brain dead tool.

There was not a fucking PEEP from you right wingers when Reagan raised debt ceiling 18 times and George W. Bush raised it 7 times.

What we heard from you tools was parroting of what Cheney said.

AGAIN...

Where did our debt come from? When did massive debt become part of the American economy?

Reagan switched the federal government from what he critically called, a “tax and spend” policy, to a “borrow and spend” policy, where the government continued its heavy spending, but used borrowed money instead of tax revenue to pay the bills. The results were catastrophic. Although it had taken the United States more than 200 years to accumulate the first $1 trillion of national debt, it took only five years under Reagan to add the second one trillion dollars to the debt. By the end of the 12 years of the Reagan-Bush administrations, the national debt had quadrupled to $4 trillion!

And where was all this angst and concern about debt from conservatives when Bush and Republicans controlled the White House and both houses of Congress for almost a decade??? When Bush was starting a 3 trillion dollar war of ideology in Iraq, there was not a fucking PEEP from you right wingers, just cheers and 'bring 'em on'... And where was this less government mantra? You right wingers LOVED BIG government and government intervention into people lives... the Patriot Act, trashing habeas corpus, the Geneva Conventions and the US War Crimes Act.

And what was the concern in the Bush administration about debt and deficits? NONE...Bush's solution was to eliminate the voices of concern. He FIRED Paul O'Neill.

And your bitterness is because of.....

Or should I ask you what makes you so special ?

I love it......you lump everyone in together. There were plenty on the right who were not at all happy with Bush.

You are nothing but a left wing CD that plays in broken down machine. Blah blah blah blah blah........

BTW: Bush only had a congress for six years. The other time the GOP had congress was in conjuntion with Bill Clinton. They ran the show and you seem very happy with their performance.

I can see you are conflicted.

But why don't you take your bitterness and tell it to someone who cares.

I don't have to apologize for Bush. He was a disaster and I want someone to apologize to me for the golden opportunities he threw away, for the wars, and for he way he spent money.

Dumbass.

 

[healthmyths]

Those who have actually studied Keynesian Economics know that it does allow modest deficit SHORT TERM deficit spending to stimulate the economy, but the theories also require that the term of deficit spending to be short, specific, with the shortage returned to the Treasury right away.

Deficit spending to be repaid ten to twenty years down the road is NOT Keynesian economics or anything other than gross irresponsibility.

Thank you for the opening...

Paul O'Neill, George W. Bush's first Treasury Secretary - 60 Minutes


The president had promised to cut taxes, and he did. Within six months of taking office, he pushed a trillion dollars worth of tax cuts through Congress.

But O'Neill thought it should have been the end. After 9/11 and the war in Afghanistan, the budget deficit was growing. So at a meeting with the vice president after the mid-term elections in 2002, O'Neill argued against a second round of tax cuts.

"Cheney, at this moment, shows his hand," says Suskind. "He says, 'You know, Paul, Reagan proved that deficits don't matter. We won the mid-term elections, this is our due.' … O'Neill is speechless."

"It was not just about not wanting the tax cut. It was about how to use the nation's resources to improve the condition of our society," says O'Neill. "And I thought the weight of working on Social Security and fundamental tax reform was a lot more important than a tax reduction."

I am at a loss for the absolute ignorance of so many people!!!
Do ANY of you know what happens when $8 TRILLION in market losses,destroyed buildings,businesses, 800,000 people put out of work and thousands of homes destroyed are WRITTEN OFF as TAX LOSSES against INCOME MEANS???
As of 2011 since 2002 over $2,533,333,333,333 ($2.5 trillion) has been written off against taxes AND NOT ONE of YOU have considered that has some affect on the ECONOMY!!!

 

[healthmyths]

OH in case YOU ALL don't remember..
Dot.com bust cost $5 trillion
9/11 cost $2 trillion.
WORST HURRICANE SEASONS (2003 to 2008) occurred $1 trillion!

And then we had $600 billion added to expenditures for Homeland Security and because we had people that wanted the IRAQ Liberation to be PROLONGED for political benefits another $600 billion!
Nearly $1.2 trillion all due to events that occurred in 2001 remember... 9/11???

 

[saveliberty]

Except for Geithner, hasn't Obama's economic advisors been a conveyor belt?