A Young Woman Stoned for Adultery

[ChrisL]

The problem is isolated people being taught outdated ancient religious beliefs.

That has always been a problem.
And so, even more, has perpetuating ancient tribal customs that are even more outdated.

Sharia law is based on their religious beliefs. Sharia law is Islamic law.

That it is.
We should also note that oil, coal, and natural gas are Colorado's chief mined products, followed by sand and gravel, gold, molybdenum and, to a lesser degree, copper, lead, silver, and zinc, granite and limestone.

Well, that is the belief that commands stonings and other such atrocities that we hear about happening in the ME. It's because of ignorance, isolation and crazy religious beliefs that are hammered into their heads from the time they are just babies by their crazy imams and their rogue governments and leaders that want to, of course, put the attention on anyone else but themselves as they plunder and steal from their own people and leave them in poverty and suffering.

And how does India do it without imams?

See? That won't go away.

How does India do what? India doesn't have terrorists all over the world terrorizing in the name of their religious beliefs, do they?

 

[Pogo]

That has always been a problem.
And so, even more, has perpetuating ancient tribal customs that are even more outdated.

Sharia law is based on their religious beliefs. Sharia law is Islamic law.

That it is.
We should also note that oil, coal, and natural gas are Colorado's chief mined products, followed by sand and gravel, gold, molybdenum and, to a lesser degree, copper, lead, silver, and zinc, granite and limestone.

Well, that is the belief that commands stonings and other such atrocities that we hear about happening in the ME. It's because of ignorance, isolation and crazy religious beliefs that are hammered into their heads from the time they are just babies by their crazy imams and their rogue governments and leaders that want to, of course, put the attention on anyone else but themselves as they plunder and steal from their own people and leave them in poverty and suffering.

And how does India do it without imams?

See? That won't go away.

How does India do what? India doesn't have terrorists all over the world terrorizing in the name of their religious beliefs, do they?

You is quite a dancer. Now we're on to terrorism ?

How does India manage to wallow in HBV without imams is the question. See if we can keep a line of thought that doesn't jump off to unrelated topics.

 

[ChrisL]

Sharia law is based on their religious beliefs. Sharia law is Islamic law.

That it is.
We should also note that oil, coal, and natural gas are Colorado's chief mined products, followed by sand and gravel, gold, molybdenum and, to a lesser degree, copper, lead, silver, and zinc, granite and limestone.

Well, that is the belief that commands stonings and other such atrocities that we hear about happening in the ME. It's because of ignorance, isolation and crazy religious beliefs that are hammered into their heads from the time they are just babies by their crazy imams and their rogue governments and leaders that want to, of course, put the attention on anyone else but themselves as they plunder and steal from their own people and leave them in poverty and suffering.

And how does India do it without imams?

See? That won't go away.

How does India do what? India doesn't have terrorists all over the world terrorizing in the name of their religious beliefs, do they?

You is quite a dancer. Now we're on to terrorism ?

How does India manage to wallow in HBV without imams is the question. See if we can keep a line of thought that doesn't jump off to unrelated topics.

There are Muslims in India I believe.

 

[Pogo]

That it is.
We should also note that oil, coal, and natural gas are Colorado's chief mined products, followed by sand and gravel, gold, molybdenum and, to a lesser degree, copper, lead, silver, and zinc, granite and limestone.

Well, that is the belief that commands stonings and other such atrocities that we hear about happening in the ME. It's because of ignorance, isolation and crazy religious beliefs that are hammered into their heads from the time they are just babies by their crazy imams and their rogue governments and leaders that want to, of course, put the attention on anyone else but themselves as they plunder and steal from their own people and leave them in poverty and suffering.

And how does India do it without imams?

See? That won't go away.

How does India do what? India doesn't have terrorists all over the world terrorizing in the name of their religious beliefs, do they?

You is quite a dancer. Now we're on to terrorism ?

How does India manage to wallow in HBV without imams is the question. See if we can keep a line of thought that doesn't jump off to unrelated topics.

There are Muslims in India I believe.

There is a minority, yes. But when HBV happens it's generally Hindus or Sikhs.
----- Which, I hasten to add, is entirely coincidental, not causal. Just like Islam, neither Hinduism nor Sikhism prescribes HBV or even tolerates it.

Therein lieth the point.

Nobody can be defined one-dimensionally by their religion alone.

 

[irosie91]

Well, that is the belief that commands stonings and other such atrocities that we hear about happening in the ME. It's because of ignorance, isolation and crazy religious beliefs that are hammered into their heads from the time they are just babies by their crazy imams and their rogue governments and leaders that want to, of course, put the attention on anyone else but themselves as they plunder and steal from their own people and leave them in poverty and suffering.

And how does India do it without imams?

See? That won't go away.

How does India do what? India doesn't have terrorists all over the world terrorizing in the name of their religious beliefs, do they?

You is quite a dancer. Now we're on to terrorism ?

How does India manage to wallow in HBV without imams is the question. See if we can keep a line of thought that doesn't jump off to unrelated topics.

There are Muslims in India I believe.

There is a minority, yes. But when HBV happens it's generally Hindus or Sikhs.
----- Which, I hasten to add, is entirely coincidental, not causal. Just like Islam, neither Hinduism nor Sikhism prescribes HBV or even tolerates it.

Therein lieth the point.

Nobody can be defined one-dimensionally by their religion alone.

you made no point-----only 12-13 % of the population of India is muslim

 

[Pogo]

And how does India do it without imams?

See? That won't go away.

How does India do what? India doesn't have terrorists all over the world terrorizing in the name of their religious beliefs, do they?

You is quite a dancer. Now we're on to terrorism ?

How does India manage to wallow in HBV without imams is the question. See if we can keep a line of thought that doesn't jump off to unrelated topics.

There are Muslims in India I believe.

There is a minority, yes. But when HBV happens it's generally Hindus or Sikhs.
----- Which, I hasten to add, is entirely coincidental, not causal. Just like Islam, neither Hinduism nor Sikhism prescribes HBV or even tolerates it.

Therein lieth the point.

Nobody can be defined one-dimensionally by their religion alone.

you made no point-----only 12-13 % of the population of India is muslim

Exactly.

 

[irosie91]

How does India do what? India doesn't have terrorists all over the world terrorizing in the name of their religious beliefs, do they?

You is quite a dancer. Now we're on to terrorism ?

How does India manage to wallow in HBV without imams is the question. See if we can keep a line of thought that doesn't jump off to unrelated topics.

There are Muslims in India I believe.

There is a minority, yes. But when HBV happens it's generally Hindus or Sikhs.
----- Which, I hasten to add, is entirely coincidental, not causal. Just like Islam, neither Hinduism nor Sikhism prescribes HBV or even tolerates it.

Therein lieth the point.

Nobody can be defined one-dimensionally by their religion alone.

you made no point-----only 12-13 % of the population of India is muslim

Exactly.

your point? you have some actual stats. do you know if they are at all
reliable? Turkey has a very high rate of suicide amongst women because
that is what they call honor killings

 

[gipper]

It is a sick demented culture in so many ways.

When will big ears or anyone on the left condemn it?

 

[Pogo]

It is a sick demented culture in so many ways.

When will big ears or anyone on the left condemn it?

Been there. Done that.

But let's all go and pretend not to notice.

 

[Pogo]

You is quite a dancer. Now we're on to terrorism ?

How does India manage to wallow in HBV without imams is the question. See if we can keep a line of thought that doesn't jump off to unrelated topics.

There are Muslims in India I believe.

There is a minority, yes. But when HBV happens it's generally Hindus or Sikhs.
----- Which, I hasten to add, is entirely coincidental, not causal. Just like Islam, neither Hinduism nor Sikhism prescribes HBV or even tolerates it.

Therein lieth the point.

Nobody can be defined one-dimensionally by their religion alone.

you made no point-----only 12-13 % of the population of India is muslim

Exactly.

your point? you have some actual stats. do you know if they are at all
reliable? Turkey has a very high rate of suicide amongst women because
that is what they call honor killings

Stats? Well since it's a very grey area nobody anywhere has "reliable" stats. As you correctly note, many are reported as "suicides" or other types of murder, if they're reported at all. But here's one I've posted many times before: Honour Killings: India's Crying Shame

>> According to statistics from the United Nations, one in five cases of honour killing internationally every year comes from India. Of the 5000 cases reported internationally, 1000 are from India. Non-governmental organisations put the number at four times this figure. They claim it is around 20,000 cases globally every year.

While traditionally occuring in villages and smaller towns in India, the cases of 'honour killing' have been on the rise and are reported sporadically in the media.

(article goes into several cases, then goes into relevant background....)

.... All these cases have led to a new discourse on legislation. Does India acutely need a separate legislation on 'honour killing'? A proposal to that effect has been made by a study done for UNFPA on gender laws.

Voices have also been raised to reign in the 'khap panchayats', self-elected village councils comprising male village elders who perpetuate values that, in turn, covertly endorse these killings in the name of saving the 'family's honour'. Like the Taliban in Pakistan and Afghanistan, the khaps have attained notoriety by issuing diktats on dress code for women and demanding a ban on the use of cell phones by young girls and women.

In rural India and middle class urban India, the onus for upholding the family morality falls on the women in the family - the daughter, daughter-in-law, wife and mother. By daring to choose a life partner, other than the one chosen for her by her family or by committing adultery, she violates the family’s honour. Both she and her lover face death as a consequence.

...Earlier, a women’s rights group, Shakti Vahini, had petitioned the Supreme Court seeking a direction to the government to be more proactive when ‘honour killings’ are carried out.

They blamed the khap panchayats for endorsing patriarchy, which reinforced the subjugation of women in society and the resultant ‘honour killings’. <<​

"Patriarchy". I keep dropping that term to deaf ears.

--- Now watch how they try to justify it:

>> The court summoned 67 representatives of the khap panchayats to explain their role in ‘honour killings’. They did that in a written reply, saying it is not they who are responsible for such killings but the families who fail to prevent their daughters and sisters and wives from interacting with men, which results in shame and ostracisation by the community.

They argued that women who feared their male relatives never committed such acts and therefore never had to face such consequences. In short, the khap panchayat representatives overtly defended ‘honour killings’. <<​

Get that? They're actually saying "hey, it's not up to us, the women make us do it". And then in the next paragraph they admit flat-out that their entire purpose is to rule through fear and intimidation. Again ----- patriarchy.

In effect they're terrorists, on the social-community level.

 

[irosie91]

thanks pogo I did not notice any mention of-----"mostly Sikhs and hindus" India has a huge population--------and the stats are completely unreliable

 

[Pogo]

thanks pogo I did not notice any mention of-----"mostly Sikhs and hindus" India has a huge population--------and the stats are completely unreliable

There's a good reason you didn't notice -- and they didn't print -- any mention of Sikhs, Hindus, Muslims or any other religion.

And that's because......


as I've been drilling into heads from the beginning..........


IT'S NOT A FUCKING RELIGIOUS RITUAL.

 

[sealybobo]

Jesus also said 'give to Caesar what is Caesar's.' Or, don't interfere in other countries' cultures. Fix your own first.

Why didn't Jesus stop them? And is she burning in hell if she heard the Jesus story and didn't get baptized?

 

[irosie91]

thanks pogo I did not notice any mention of-----"mostly Sikhs and hindus" India has a huge population--------and the stats are completely unreliable

There's a good reason you didn't notice -- and they didn't print -- any mention of Sikhs, Hindus, Muslims or any other religion.

And that's because......


as I've been drilling into heads from the beginning..........


IT'S NOT A FUCKING RELIGIOUS RITUAL.

You made no point-----YOU specifically claimed HINDUS DO IT MORE THAN DO
MUSLIMS

 

[rdean]

American christians say stone gays - Google Search



It's a religious thing.

 

[Pogo]

thanks pogo I did not notice any mention of-----"mostly Sikhs and hindus" India has a huge population--------and the stats are completely unreliable

There's a good reason you didn't notice -- and they didn't print -- any mention of Sikhs, Hindus, Muslims or any other religion.

And that's because......


as I've been drilling into heads from the beginning..........


IT'S NOT A FUCKING RELIGIOUS RITUAL.

You made no point-----YOU specifically claimed HINDUS DO IT MORE THAN DO
MUSLIMS

No, I did not. I specifically said that Hindus, Sikhs, Muslims, nonreligious and followers of other religions all do it, and that NONE of them do so because their religion tells them to.

Don't try to put words in my mouth. I can LINK what I said. You cannot link what you pretend I said.

 

[Pogo]

>> Recently, a story appeared in Huffington Post about a 16 year old Turkish girl who was buried alive by her father and grandfather for having talked to boys. The West rightly finds this a horrific practice. However, many in the West also misunderstand and conveniently condemn honor killing as a practice of Islam. The mistake with this condemnation is that Islam does not permit or condone honor killing. However, it is precisely this misunderstanding and ignorance that allows many in the West to participate in a climate of hate, mistrust and even the idea of war against all of Islam.

... Fueling the charge of "crazy" in the cases of honor killing is the concept of honor. What is honor? Traditionally, honor in this context means one's reputation or good name. The concept of honor may come from the need to be perceived as perfect in the eyes of one's community because if one's community sees a person as flawless, then perhaps so will God and they will easily enter Heaven. Since God is such a far away concept, the instant gratification of the approval of one's neighbors or one's community of a father and his family's lifestyle and their adherence to Islam's rules becomes more immediate and in many cases is used as an indication of one's perfection in the eyes of God. However, it should be noted this is a centuries-old cultural practice with, in some cases, only the slightest connection to Islam. In many cases, honor is connected to the sexual purity of one's daughter or female family member, which is too big a topic to be examined here.

And while some in the West see honor killing as "evidence" that Islam is a bad religion, many in the East condemn the West as being a place with an evil culture where women have sex with countless numbers of men followed by countless numbers of abortions all in the name of their feminist, godless freedom with absolutely no respect for life. And because East and West each perceive the other as having no respect for life because of their honor killings and abortions, it becomes easier for some in our respective cultures to hate the other even more. <<

(case history 1):

>> In Rana Husseini's Murder in the Name of Honor, Ms. Husseini describes an interview in a Jordanian jail she had with a young man named Sarhan who in 1999 shot his sister Yasmin because she was no longer a virgin after she had been raped by a brother-in-law.

In the interview, Sarhan explained, "'I killed her because she was no longer a virgin,' he told me. 'She made a mistake, willingly or not. It is better that one person dies than the whole family of shame and disgrace. It is like a box of apples. If you have one rotten apple would you keep it or get rid of it? I just got rid of it.' When I challenged Sarhan by pointing out that his act contradicted the teachings of Islam and was punishable by God, he said, 'I know that killing my sister is against Islam and it angered God, but I had to do what I had to do and I will answer to God when the time comes." He added, "I know my sister was killed unjustly but what can I do? This is how society thinks. Nobody really wants to kill his own sister." <<

(case history 2):

>> ... I, Rinde, grew up in Turkey and quickly realized it was not favorable to be born a girl. No matter what my brothers did it was accepted by my parents. On the other hand, they would talk over me as if I had nothing significant to say. My brothers and my parents would beat me on many occasions, especially when I did something to displease them, such as dare to talk back to them which was disapproved of since they were men. However, it was okay for them to slap me around to put me on "the right path".

Their abuse was not dictated by religion since my brothers were not really religious, nor did it come from love to "help me be a better person". However, I got off easy, because there were occasions where women would suddenly be missing. These women would vanish without a trace. It would be reported by a family in my village that "my daughter has committed suicide". It was obvious that they were killed by a family member, but no one would dare say anything. Being Kurdish, the customs of our culture even before Islam's arrival are more cemented than even the religion itself in the name of deeply rooted rituals and beliefs. Besides, most people never really study the Quran and have a very limited, distorted view of their own religion. Thus, they act on cultural impulse as Sarhan so aptly described it.<<

--- Deepak Chopra, Jim Buck and Rinde Pasori, "A Practical Approach to Talking about Honor Killing"​

See why I keep insisting culture is where it's at as a motivator? Not only are laws powerless against it --- religion is too.

 

[irosie91]

thanks pogo I did not notice any mention of-----"mostly Sikhs and hindus" India has a huge population--------and the stats are completely unreliable

There's a good reason you didn't notice -- and they didn't print -- any mention of Sikhs, Hindus, Muslims or any other religion.

And that's because......


as I've been drilling into heads from the beginning..........


IT'S NOT A FUCKING RELIGIOUS RITUAL.

You made no point-----YOU specifically claimed HINDUS DO IT MORE THAN DO
MUSLIMS

No, I did not. I specifically said that Hindus, Sikhs, Muslims, nonreligious and followers of other religions all do it, and that NONE of them do so because their religion tells them to.

Don't try to put words in my mouth. I can LINK what I said. You cannot link what you pretend I said.

I have a marvelous idea------inform all universities that they can do away
with their SOCIOLOGY AND ANTHROPOLOGY departments because
you have DISCOVERED that all people do the same things with equal
frequency. I do not play the link game with idiots like you. I do not
believe that you ever met a MUSLIM , or a HINDU or a SIKH in
your life---------spent much time outside of the local pool hall with a can
of beer in your hand

 

[Pogo]

thanks pogo I did not notice any mention of-----"mostly Sikhs and hindus" India has a huge population--------and the stats are completely unreliable

There's a good reason you didn't notice -- and they didn't print -- any mention of Sikhs, Hindus, Muslims or any other religion.

And that's because......


as I've been drilling into heads from the beginning..........


IT'S NOT A FUCKING RELIGIOUS RITUAL.

You made no point-----YOU specifically claimed HINDUS DO IT MORE THAN DO
MUSLIMS

No, I did not. I specifically said that Hindus, Sikhs, Muslims, nonreligious and followers of other religions all do it, and that NONE of them do so because their religion tells them to.

Don't try to put words in my mouth. I can LINK what I said. You cannot link what you pretend I said.

I have a marvelous idea------inform all universities that they can do away
with their SOCIOLOGY AND ANTHROPOLOGY departments because
you have DISCOVERED that all people do the same things with equal
frequency. I do not play the link game with idiots like you. I do not
believe that you ever met a MUSLIM , or a HINDU or a SIKH in
your life---------spent much time outside of the local pool hall with a can
of beer in your hand

People still drink beer out of CANS?


Look, I know the facts are inconvenient to your emotional basket-case meme but ---- tough shit. Don't want my links to what I've said? Hey, don't click on 'em.

I will admit I've met many more Muslims than Sikhs. Just worked out that way. But I'm not the one trying to pin shit on either one when I know better.

And oh by the way I don't have a "local pool hall". See, when the 1950s were over and time moved on --- I moved on too.

 

[irosie91]

thanks pogo I did not notice any mention of-----"mostly Sikhs and hindus" India has a huge population--------and the stats are completely unreliable

There's a good reason you didn't notice -- and they didn't print -- any mention of Sikhs, Hindus, Muslims or any other religion.

And that's because......


as I've been drilling into heads from the beginning..........


IT'S NOT A FUCKING RELIGIOUS RITUAL.

You made no point-----YOU specifically claimed HINDUS DO IT MORE THAN DO
MUSLIMS

No, I did not. I specifically said that Hindus, Sikhs, Muslims, nonreligious and followers of other religions all do it, and that NONE of them do so because their religion tells them to.

Don't try to put words in my mouth. I can LINK what I said. You cannot link what you pretend I said.

I have a marvelous idea------inform all universities that they can do away
with their SOCIOLOGY AND ANTHROPOLOGY departments because
you have DISCOVERED that all people do the same things with equal
frequency. I do not play the link game with idiots like you. I do not
believe that you ever met a MUSLIM , or a HINDU or a SIKH in
your life---------spent much time outside of the local pool hall with a can
of beer in your hand

People still drink beer out of CANS?


Look, I know the facts are inconvenient to your emotional basket-case meme but ---- tough shit. Don't want my links to what I've said? Hey, don't click on 'em.

I will admit I've met many more Muslims than Sikhs. Just worked out that way. But I'm not the one trying to pin shit on either one when I know better.

you know nothing-----some people still drink from the can or the bottle. I have been working VERY closely with muslims and Sikhs and hindus for more than 45 years.
Lots and lots---------working with includes knowing the very intimate details of
their lives-------lots of it legally confidential I can ask questions that you cannot
and people can tell me things confident that I CANNOT TELL. Thru my husband
I have relatives who survived Sharia cesspits-----his community lived in a land
that BECAME a shariah cesspit with the unfortunate advent of ISLAM ---some 1300 years ago They know their own lives -----and their family legacies----stuff you missed in the pool hall. One of my best informants died a few weeks ago----
hubby's aunt------age 90-----she remembered everything. You just do not know----not your fault-----but it is your fault that you draw conclusions based on NO INFORMATION