Abortion, expanded

[sealybobo]

The interview with Matthews is taped, and Trump asserts that women who receive abortions once the procedure is illegal will face punishment. The men are involved will not, he adds.

News of the comments quickly leaks.

Before the MSNBC town hall even airs, a spokesperson for Trump releases a statement changing what he told Matthews.

 

[sealybobo]

About an hour later, Trump’s campaign releases a more formal “statement regarding abortion.” It’s different than what he said to Matthews and his initial statement.

“If Congress were to pass legislation making abortion illegal and the federal courts upheld this legislation, or any state were permitted to ban abortion under state and federal law,” the statement says, “the doctor or any other person performing this illegal act upon a woman would be held legally responsible, not the woman.” (NOT THE MURDERER HERSELF???)

 

[sealybobo]

April 1, 2016, 6:30 p.m.
CBS releases an excerpt of its interview with Trump that aired Sunday morning. Asked again about abortion, Trump’s position seems to change yet again.

“The laws are set now on abortion and that’s the way they're going to remain until they’re changed,” he said, according to CBS’s transcript. “I would’ve preferred states’ rights. I think it would’ve been better if it were up to the states. But right now, the laws are set.... At this moment, the laws are set. And I think we have to leave it that way.”

So clearly Trump doesn't think it's murder.

 

[sealybobo]

Again before the program airs, the Trump campaign re-frames what the candidate said.

“Mr. Trump gave an accurate account of the law as it is today and made clear it must stay that way now — until he is president,” it read. “Then he will change the law through his judicial appointments and allow the states to protect the unborn. There is nothing new or different here.”

REALLY? Seems like it has changed.

 

[ding]

No. Not ideal does not accurately describe it. Say it with me, sealybobo, it is wrong to end a human life.

Unless it's the wrong time to start one.

You just can't force a woman to have a baby when its first trimester. That seed won't know the difference.

We already had this discussion in the 60s

The standard does not care how or why or what happened. The standard is that it is wrong to end a human life. Making exceptions is normalizing a deviance and it does have predictable surprises.

Assisted suicide is legal in some states. Is that wrong?

Yes. Do you think the people who did it go out partying after it or something?

I don't think you understand the concept that I first laid out for you. Start with the highest standard possible. And when you don't meet it, don't rationalize that you did. Because that will be a losing hand. You don't want to play a losing hand, do you?

Now that we are done discussing your fringe argument that was totally unrelated to an abortion of convenience, Let's talk about abortion. Is it wrong to abort a baby for convenience? Which is really what we are talking about. You were the one who revived this thread, right?

Great scene in orange is the new black where the woman explains to the meth head how she did those kids and society a favor by aborting. Ask most people in that case they condoln abortion.

And ask a girl who doesn't want to have a baby if abortion should be legal she'll say yes. How she got pregnant doesn't matter.

Human life just isn't that precious. Scientifically it's just a seed and feels nothing. Simple safe and quick.

Sucks to be the seed true but

You are equating legal to right. It doesn't work that way. There was a time it was legal to own people. You could have dine anything you wanted to with them and it would have been legal.

Of course human life is precious. Don't be an idiot. Look around the universe. It's a pretty inhospitable place. There aren't many places where you will find the beings that know and create. How is that not precious? How is that not rare? How can the universe evolving to be able to have a discussion with itself not be remarkable?

rare
rer/
adjective

1. (of an event, situation, or condition) not occurring very often.
   "a rare genetic disorder"
   synonyms: infrequent, scarce, sparse, few and far between, thin on the ground, like gold dust, as scarce as hen's teeth; More
   
   • (of a thing) not found in large numbers and consequently of interest or value.
     "the jellyfish tree, one of the rarest plants on earth"
     synonyms: unusual, recherché, uncommon, unfamiliar, atypical, singular
     "rare stamps"
   • unusually good or remarkable.
     "he plays with rare strength and sensitivity"
     synonyms: exceptional, outstanding, unparalleled, peerless, matchless, unique, unrivaled, inimitable, beyond compare, without equal, second to none, unsurpassed; More
     

 

[ding]

No. Not ideal does not accurately describe it. Say it with me, sealybobo, it is wrong to end a human life.

Unless it's the wrong time to start one.

You just can't force a woman to have a baby when its first trimester. That seed won't know the difference.

We already had this discussion in the 60s

The standard does not care how or why or what happened. The standard is that it is wrong to end a human life. Making exceptions is normalizing a deviance and it does have predictable surprises.

Assisted suicide is legal in some states. Is that wrong?

Yes. Do you think the people who did it go out partying after it or something?

I don't think you understand the concept that I first laid out for you. Start with the highest standard possible. And when you don't meet it, don't rationalize that you did. Because that will be a losing hand. You don't want to play a losing hand, do you?

Now that we are done discussing your fringe argument that was totally unrelated to an abortion of convenience, Let's talk about abortion. Is it wrong to abort a baby for convenience? Which is really what we are talking about. You were the one who revived this thread, right?

Donald Trump took 5 different positions on abortion in 3 days

You can see the exact moment last week that Donald Trump made up his mind on whether women would face criminal punishment once he signed new restrictions into law. He is at a town hall with MSNBC’s Chris Matthews, and, after Matthews badgers him for a while, he finally answers the question.

“The answer is ... that,” Trump says, eyes looking to the side in thought, “there has to be some form of punishment.” He punctuates “has” with a hand gesture. Done. Final.

That would be a state decision.

 

[ding]

But as it turns out — and as it has turned out repeatedly over the course of his life — that was not, in fact, Trump’s final position on the subject. This past week alone, he has held multiple contradicting positions, including that one. So we figured that a timeline was in order, so that you could see the date and time and know, concretely, what Trump’s abortion position was at that moment.

Though he might deny it.

April 1989
Trump co-sponsored a dinner at the Plaza Hotel in Manhattan (which he then owned) honoring Robin Chandler Duke, a former president of NARAL. He chose not to attend, the New York Times reported, after his family was threatened by anti-abortion activists.

Oct. 24, 1999
Ten years later, Trump appeared on NBC in an interview with Tim Russert. In a clip that has received newfound life during this election cycle, Trump defends his broadly liberal positions by explaining that he grew up in Manhattan, not Iowa.

Asked about abortion, he’s clear.

“I’m very pro-choice,” Trump says. “I hate the concept of abortion. I hate it. I hate everything it stands for. I cringe when I listen to people debating the subject. But you still — I just believe in choice.”

Russert clarifies his original point: Would you ban partial-birth abortion? “No,” Trump replies.

Between 1999 and 2011
At some point between 1999 and 2011, Trump’s position on abortion changed. He explained the reason for his switch during the first debate of 2015.

[W]hat happened is friends of mine years ago were going to have a child, and it was going to be aborted. And it wasn’t aborted. And that child today is a total superstar, a great, great child. And I saw that. And I saw other instances.

In 2011, as he was toying with running, he told activists at the Conservative Political Action Conference that, among other conservative positions, “I am pro-life [and] against gun control.”

June 28, 2015
Shortly after announcing his candidacy, Trump appeared on CNN in an interview with Jake Tapper. He got a little tripped up.

TAPPER: Let me ask you about a few social issues because they haven’t been issues you have been talking about for several years. I know you’re opposed to abortion.

TRUMP: Right. I’m pro-choice.

TAPPER: You’re pro-choice or pro-life?

TRUMP: I’m pro-life. I’m sorry.

April 1, 2016, 6:30 p.m.
CBS releases an excerpt of its interview with Trump that aired Sunday morning. Asked again about abortion, Trump’s position seems to change yet again.

“The laws are set now on abortion and that’s the way they're going to remain until they’re changed,” he said, according to CBS’s transcript. “I would’ve preferred states’ rights. I think it would’ve been better if it were up to the states. But right now, the laws are set.... At this moment, the laws are set. And I think we have to leave it that way.”

So clearly Trump doesn't think it's murder.

Again before the program airs, the Trump campaign re-frames what the candidate said.

“Mr. Trump gave an accurate account of the law as it is today and made clear it must stay that way now — until he is president,” it read. “Then he will change the law through his judicial appointments and allow the states to protect the unborn. There is nothing new or different here.”

REALLY? Seems like it has changed.

It has always been a state decision.

 

[sealybobo]

Unless it's the wrong time to start one.

You just can't force a woman to have a baby when its first trimester. That seed won't know the difference.

We already had this discussion in the 60s

The standard does not care how or why or what happened. The standard is that it is wrong to end a human life. Making exceptions is normalizing a deviance and it does have predictable surprises.

Assisted suicide is legal in some states. Is that wrong?

Yes. Do you think the people who did it go out partying after it or something?

I don't think you understand the concept that I first laid out for you. Start with the highest standard possible. And when you don't meet it, don't rationalize that you did. Because that will be a losing hand. You don't want to play a losing hand, do you?

Now that we are done discussing your fringe argument that was totally unrelated to an abortion of convenience, Let's talk about abortion. Is it wrong to abort a baby for convenience? Which is really what we are talking about. You were the one who revived this thread, right?

Great scene in orange is the new black where the woman explains to the meth head how she did those kids and society a favor by aborting. Ask most people in that case they condoln abortion.

And ask a girl who doesn't want to have a baby if abortion should be legal she'll say yes. How she got pregnant doesn't matter.

Human life just isn't that precious. Scientifically it's just a seed and feels nothing. Simple safe and quick.

Sucks to be the seed true but

You are equating legal to right. It doesn't work that way. There was a time it was legal to own people. You could have dine anything you wanted to with them and it would have been legal.

Of course human life is precious. Don't be an idiot. Look around the universe. It's a pretty inhospitable place. There aren't many places where you will find the beings that know and create. How is that not precious? How is that not rare? How can the universe evolving to be able to have a discussion with itself not be remarkable?

rare
rer/
adjective

1. (of an event, situation, or condition) not occurring very often.
   "a rare genetic disorder"
   synonyms: infrequent, scarce, sparse, few and far between, thin on the ground, like gold dust, as scarce as hen's teeth; More
   • (of a thing) not found in large numbers and consequently of interest or value.
     "the jellyfish tree, one of the rarest plants on earth"
     synonyms: unusual, recherché, uncommon, unfamiliar, atypical, singular
     "rare stamps"
   • unusually good or remarkable.
     "he plays with rare strength and sensitivity"
     synonyms: exceptional, outstanding, unparalleled, peerless, matchless, unique, unrivaled, inimitable, beyond compare, without equal, second to none, unsurpassed; More

People die or suffer every second and you don't lose a minutes sleep.

The problem is not everyone who fucks should be a parent.

 

[sealybobo]

But as it turns out — and as it has turned out repeatedly over the course of his life — that was not, in fact, Trump’s final position on the subject. This past week alone, he has held multiple contradicting positions, including that one. So we figured that a timeline was in order, so that you could see the date and time and know, concretely, what Trump’s abortion position was at that moment.

Though he might deny it.

April 1989
Trump co-sponsored a dinner at the Plaza Hotel in Manhattan (which he then owned) honoring Robin Chandler Duke, a former president of NARAL. He chose not to attend, the New York Times reported, after his family was threatened by anti-abortion activists.

Oct. 24, 1999
Ten years later, Trump appeared on NBC in an interview with Tim Russert. In a clip that has received newfound life during this election cycle, Trump defends his broadly liberal positions by explaining that he grew up in Manhattan, not Iowa.

Asked about abortion, he’s clear.

“I’m very pro-choice,” Trump says. “I hate the concept of abortion. I hate it. I hate everything it stands for. I cringe when I listen to people debating the subject. But you still — I just believe in choice.”

Russert clarifies his original point: Would you ban partial-birth abortion? “No,” Trump replies.

Between 1999 and 2011
At some point between 1999 and 2011, Trump’s position on abortion changed. He explained the reason for his switch during the first debate of 2015.

[W]hat happened is friends of mine years ago were going to have a child, and it was going to be aborted. And it wasn’t aborted. And that child today is a total superstar, a great, great child. And I saw that. And I saw other instances.

In 2011, as he was toying with running, he told activists at the Conservative Political Action Conference that, among other conservative positions, “I am pro-life [and] against gun control.”

June 28, 2015
Shortly after announcing his candidacy, Trump appeared on CNN in an interview with Jake Tapper. He got a little tripped up.

TAPPER: Let me ask you about a few social issues because they haven’t been issues you have been talking about for several years. I know you’re opposed to abortion.

TRUMP: Right. I’m pro-choice.

TAPPER: You’re pro-choice or pro-life?

TRUMP: I’m pro-life. I’m sorry.

April 1, 2016, 6:30 p.m.
CBS releases an excerpt of its interview with Trump that aired Sunday morning. Asked again about abortion, Trump’s position seems to change yet again.

“The laws are set now on abortion and that’s the way they're going to remain until they’re changed,” he said, according to CBS’s transcript. “I would’ve preferred states’ rights. I think it would’ve been better if it were up to the states. But right now, the laws are set.... At this moment, the laws are set. And I think we have to leave it that way.”

So clearly Trump doesn't think it's murder.

Again before the program airs, the Trump campaign re-frames what the candidate said.

“Mr. Trump gave an accurate account of the law as it is today and made clear it must stay that way now — until he is president,” it read. “Then he will change the law through his judicial appointments and allow the states to protect the unborn. There is nothing new or different here.”

REALLY? Seems like it has changed.

It has always been a state decision.

Then tell everyone you are going to ban abortion right after the 2020 election. At least be honest

But I will give you this. Trump said he would punish women who got abortions if it were illegal and still 44℅ of women voted for him and he won so they can't say he wasn't honest about it.

 

[ding]

The standard does not care how or why or what happened. The standard is that it is wrong to end a human life. Making exceptions is normalizing a deviance and it does have predictable surprises.

Assisted suicide is legal in some states. Is that wrong?

Yes. Do you think the people who did it go out partying after it or something?

I don't think you understand the concept that I first laid out for you. Start with the highest standard possible. And when you don't meet it, don't rationalize that you did. Because that will be a losing hand. You don't want to play a losing hand, do you?

Now that we are done discussing your fringe argument that was totally unrelated to an abortion of convenience, Let's talk about abortion. Is it wrong to abort a baby for convenience? Which is really what we are talking about. You were the one who revived this thread, right?

Great scene in orange is the new black where the woman explains to the meth head how she did those kids and society a favor by aborting. Ask most people in that case they condoln abortion.

And ask a girl who doesn't want to have a baby if abortion should be legal she'll say yes. How she got pregnant doesn't matter.

Human life just isn't that precious. Scientifically it's just a seed and feels nothing. Simple safe and quick.

Sucks to be the seed true but

You are equating legal to right. It doesn't work that way. There was a time it was legal to own people. You could have dine anything you wanted to with them and it would have been legal.

Of course human life is precious. Don't be an idiot. Look around the universe. It's a pretty inhospitable place. There aren't many places where you will find the beings that know and create. How is that not precious? How is that not rare? How can the universe evolving to be able to have a discussion with itself not be remarkable?

rare
rer/
adjective

1. (of an event, situation, or condition) not occurring very often.
   "a rare genetic disorder"
   synonyms: infrequent, scarce, sparse, few and far between, thin on the ground, like gold dust, as scarce as hen's teeth; More
   • (of a thing) not found in large numbers and consequently of interest or value.
     "the jellyfish tree, one of the rarest plants on earth"
     synonyms: unusual, recherché, uncommon, unfamiliar, atypical, singular
     "rare stamps"
   • unusually good or remarkable.
     "he plays with rare strength and sensitivity"
     synonyms: exceptional, outstanding, unparalleled, peerless, matchless, unique, unrivaled, inimitable, beyond compare, without equal, second to none, unsurpassed; More

People die or suffer every second and you don't lose a minutes sleep.

The problem is not everyone who fucks should be a parent.

Yep, I'm no different from you in that regard. I can't know what I don't know. So the fuck what? What does that have to do with life is rare and precious? Are you so lacking in logic that you fail to recognize what makes something rare? Because it makes no fucking sense whatsoever that just because some people don't act like life is rare and precious, that life is not rare and precious. The reality is that when anyone's life is threatened they damn sure do act like life is rare and precious because they will do almost anything to keep it.

Yep, not everyone who fucks should be a parent. Again... so what? What the fuck does that have to do with it being wrong to end a human life? You would be much better off just admitting the truth and be done with it. Help me help you.

 

[ding]

But as it turns out — and as it has turned out repeatedly over the course of his life — that was not, in fact, Trump’s final position on the subject. This past week alone, he has held multiple contradicting positions, including that one. So we figured that a timeline was in order, so that you could see the date and time and know, concretely, what Trump’s abortion position was at that moment.

Though he might deny it.

April 1989
Trump co-sponsored a dinner at the Plaza Hotel in Manhattan (which he then owned) honoring Robin Chandler Duke, a former president of NARAL. He chose not to attend, the New York Times reported, after his family was threatened by anti-abortion activists.

Oct. 24, 1999
Ten years later, Trump appeared on NBC in an interview with Tim Russert. In a clip that has received newfound life during this election cycle, Trump defends his broadly liberal positions by explaining that he grew up in Manhattan, not Iowa.

Asked about abortion, he’s clear.

“I’m very pro-choice,” Trump says. “I hate the concept of abortion. I hate it. I hate everything it stands for. I cringe when I listen to people debating the subject. But you still — I just believe in choice.”

Russert clarifies his original point: Would you ban partial-birth abortion? “No,” Trump replies.

Between 1999 and 2011
At some point between 1999 and 2011, Trump’s position on abortion changed. He explained the reason for his switch during the first debate of 2015.

[W]hat happened is friends of mine years ago were going to have a child, and it was going to be aborted. And it wasn’t aborted. And that child today is a total superstar, a great, great child. And I saw that. And I saw other instances.

In 2011, as he was toying with running, he told activists at the Conservative Political Action Conference that, among other conservative positions, “I am pro-life [and] against gun control.”

June 28, 2015
Shortly after announcing his candidacy, Trump appeared on CNN in an interview with Jake Tapper. He got a little tripped up.

TAPPER: Let me ask you about a few social issues because they haven’t been issues you have been talking about for several years. I know you’re opposed to abortion.

TRUMP: Right. I’m pro-choice.

TAPPER: You’re pro-choice or pro-life?

TRUMP: I’m pro-life. I’m sorry.

April 1, 2016, 6:30 p.m.
CBS releases an excerpt of its interview with Trump that aired Sunday morning. Asked again about abortion, Trump’s position seems to change yet again.

“The laws are set now on abortion and that’s the way they're going to remain until they’re changed,” he said, according to CBS’s transcript. “I would’ve preferred states’ rights. I think it would’ve been better if it were up to the states. But right now, the laws are set.... At this moment, the laws are set. And I think we have to leave it that way.”

So clearly Trump doesn't think it's murder.

Again before the program airs, the Trump campaign re-frames what the candidate said.

“Mr. Trump gave an accurate account of the law as it is today and made clear it must stay that way now — until he is president,” it read. “Then he will change the law through his judicial appointments and allow the states to protect the unborn. There is nothing new or different here.”

REALLY? Seems like it has changed.

It has always been a state decision.

Then tell everyone you are going to ban abortion right after the 2020 election. At least be honest

But I will give you this. Trump said he would punish women who got abortions if it were illegal and still 44℅ of women voted for him and he won so they can't say he wasn't honest about it.

You are skipping a whole lot of steps there, brother. Whoa. Hold up. I have not gotten within 100 miles of banning anything. Who said anything about banning abortion? Not me. I'm just trying to find out why you think abortion is moral. Well? Why do you believe abortion is moral?

 

[sealybobo]

Assisted suicide is legal in some states. Is that wrong?

Yes. Do you think the people who did it go out partying after it or something?

I don't think you understand the concept that I first laid out for you. Start with the highest standard possible. And when you don't meet it, don't rationalize that you did. Because that will be a losing hand. You don't want to play a losing hand, do you?

Now that we are done discussing your fringe argument that was totally unrelated to an abortion of convenience, Let's talk about abortion. Is it wrong to abort a baby for convenience? Which is really what we are talking about. You were the one who revived this thread, right?

Great scene in orange is the new black where the woman explains to the meth head how she did those kids and society a favor by aborting. Ask most people in that case they condoln abortion.

And ask a girl who doesn't want to have a baby if abortion should be legal she'll say yes. How she got pregnant doesn't matter.

Human life just isn't that precious. Scientifically it's just a seed and feels nothing. Simple safe and quick.

Sucks to be the seed true but

You are equating legal to right. It doesn't work that way. There was a time it was legal to own people. You could have dine anything you wanted to with them and it would have been legal.

Of course human life is precious. Don't be an idiot. Look around the universe. It's a pretty inhospitable place. There aren't many places where you will find the beings that know and create. How is that not precious? How is that not rare? How can the universe evolving to be able to have a discussion with itself not be remarkable?

rare
rer/
adjective

1. (of an event, situation, or condition) not occurring very often.
   "a rare genetic disorder"
   synonyms: infrequent, scarce, sparse, few and far between, thin on the ground, like gold dust, as scarce as hen's teeth; More
   • (of a thing) not found in large numbers and consequently of interest or value.
     "the jellyfish tree, one of the rarest plants on earth"
     synonyms: unusual, recherché, uncommon, unfamiliar, atypical, singular
     "rare stamps"
   • unusually good or remarkable.
     "he plays with rare strength and sensitivity"
     synonyms: exceptional, outstanding, unparalleled, peerless, matchless, unique, unrivaled, inimitable, beyond compare, without equal, second to none, unsurpassed; More

People die or suffer every second and you don't lose a minutes sleep.

The problem is not everyone who fucks should be a parent.

Yep, I'm no different from you in that regard. I can't know what I don't know. So the fuck what? What does that have to do with life is rare and precious? Are you so lacking in logic that you fail to recognize what makes something rare? Because it makes no fucking sense whatsoever that just because some people don't act like life is rare and precious, that life is not rare and precious. The reality is that when anyone's life is threatened they damn sure do act like life is rare and precious because they will do almost anything to keep it.

Yep, not everyone who fucks should be a parent. Again... so what? What the fuck does that have to do with it being wrong to end a human life? You would be much better off just admitting the truth and be done with it. Help me help you.

Well it's not ideal no but too many rational good people still believe it's not a big deal to get an abortion. Even if they wouldn't get one themselves.

There are women who should get abortions if they get pregnant. Would I prefer she have the baby and put it up for adoption? Sure. But would I do that? No way. I'd get an abortion first. And I don't blame or fault or shame women who get them because I get it.

 

[sealybobo]

But as it turns out — and as it has turned out repeatedly over the course of his life — that was not, in fact, Trump’s final position on the subject. This past week alone, he has held multiple contradicting positions, including that one. So we figured that a timeline was in order, so that you could see the date and time and know, concretely, what Trump’s abortion position was at that moment.

Though he might deny it.

April 1989
Trump co-sponsored a dinner at the Plaza Hotel in Manhattan (which he then owned) honoring Robin Chandler Duke, a former president of NARAL. He chose not to attend, the New York Times reported, after his family was threatened by anti-abortion activists.

Oct. 24, 1999
Ten years later, Trump appeared on NBC in an interview with Tim Russert. In a clip that has received newfound life during this election cycle, Trump defends his broadly liberal positions by explaining that he grew up in Manhattan, not Iowa.

Asked about abortion, he’s clear.

“I’m very pro-choice,” Trump says. “I hate the concept of abortion. I hate it. I hate everything it stands for. I cringe when I listen to people debating the subject. But you still — I just believe in choice.”

Russert clarifies his original point: Would you ban partial-birth abortion? “No,” Trump replies.

Between 1999 and 2011
At some point between 1999 and 2011, Trump’s position on abortion changed. He explained the reason for his switch during the first debate of 2015.

[W]hat happened is friends of mine years ago were going to have a child, and it was going to be aborted. And it wasn’t aborted. And that child today is a total superstar, a great, great child. And I saw that. And I saw other instances.

In 2011, as he was toying with running, he told activists at the Conservative Political Action Conference that, among other conservative positions, “I am pro-life [and] against gun control.”

June 28, 2015
Shortly after announcing his candidacy, Trump appeared on CNN in an interview with Jake Tapper. He got a little tripped up.

TAPPER: Let me ask you about a few social issues because they haven’t been issues you have been talking about for several years. I know you’re opposed to abortion.

TRUMP: Right. I’m pro-choice.

TAPPER: You’re pro-choice or pro-life?

TRUMP: I’m pro-life. I’m sorry.

April 1, 2016, 6:30 p.m.
CBS releases an excerpt of its interview with Trump that aired Sunday morning. Asked again about abortion, Trump’s position seems to change yet again.

“The laws are set now on abortion and that’s the way they're going to remain until they’re changed,” he said, according to CBS’s transcript. “I would’ve preferred states’ rights. I think it would’ve been better if it were up to the states. But right now, the laws are set.... At this moment, the laws are set. And I think we have to leave it that way.”

So clearly Trump doesn't think it's murder.

Again before the program airs, the Trump campaign re-frames what the candidate said.

“Mr. Trump gave an accurate account of the law as it is today and made clear it must stay that way now — until he is president,” it read. “Then he will change the law through his judicial appointments and allow the states to protect the unborn. There is nothing new or different here.”

REALLY? Seems like it has changed.

It has always been a state decision.

Then tell everyone you are going to ban abortion right after the 2020 election. At least be honest

But I will give you this. Trump said he would punish women who got abortions if it were illegal and still 44℅ of women voted for him and he won so they can't say he wasn't honest about it.

You are skipping a whole lot of steps there, brother. Whoa. Hold up. I have not gotten within 100 miles of banning anything. Who said anything about banning abortion? Not me. I'm just trying to find out why you think abortion is moral. Well? Why do you believe abortion is moral?

I don't think it qualifies as moral but you and I have different morals. Is it moral to smoke or curse?

 

[ding]

Yes. Do you think the people who did it go out partying after it or something?

I don't think you understand the concept that I first laid out for you. Start with the highest standard possible. And when you don't meet it, don't rationalize that you did. Because that will be a losing hand. You don't want to play a losing hand, do you?

Now that we are done discussing your fringe argument that was totally unrelated to an abortion of convenience, Let's talk about abortion. Is it wrong to abort a baby for convenience? Which is really what we are talking about. You were the one who revived this thread, right?

Great scene in orange is the new black where the woman explains to the meth head how she did those kids and society a favor by aborting. Ask most people in that case they condoln abortion.

And ask a girl who doesn't want to have a baby if abortion should be legal she'll say yes. How she got pregnant doesn't matter.

Human life just isn't that precious. Scientifically it's just a seed and feels nothing. Simple safe and quick.

Sucks to be the seed true but

You are equating legal to right. It doesn't work that way. There was a time it was legal to own people. You could have dine anything you wanted to with them and it would have been legal.

Of course human life is precious. Don't be an idiot. Look around the universe. It's a pretty inhospitable place. There aren't many places where you will find the beings that know and create. How is that not precious? How is that not rare? How can the universe evolving to be able to have a discussion with itself not be remarkable?

rare
rer/
adjective

1. (of an event, situation, or condition) not occurring very often.
   "a rare genetic disorder"
   synonyms: infrequent, scarce, sparse, few and far between, thin on the ground, like gold dust, as scarce as hen's teeth; More
   • (of a thing) not found in large numbers and consequently of interest or value.
     "the jellyfish tree, one of the rarest plants on earth"
     synonyms: unusual, recherché, uncommon, unfamiliar, atypical, singular
     "rare stamps"
   • unusually good or remarkable.
     "he plays with rare strength and sensitivity"
     synonyms: exceptional, outstanding, unparalleled, peerless, matchless, unique, unrivaled, inimitable, beyond compare, without equal, second to none, unsurpassed; More

People die or suffer every second and you don't lose a minutes sleep.

The problem is not everyone who fucks should be a parent.

Yep, I'm no different from you in that regard. I can't know what I don't know. So the fuck what? What does that have to do with life is rare and precious? Are you so lacking in logic that you fail to recognize what makes something rare? Because it makes no fucking sense whatsoever that just because some people don't act like life is rare and precious, that life is not rare and precious. The reality is that when anyone's life is threatened they damn sure do act like life is rare and precious because they will do almost anything to keep it.

Yep, not everyone who fucks should be a parent. Again... so what? What the fuck does that have to do with it being wrong to end a human life? You would be much better off just admitting the truth and be done with it. Help me help you.

Well it's not ideal no but too many rational good people still believe it's not a big deal to get an abortion. Even if they wouldn't get one themselves.

There are women who should get abortions if they get pregnant. Would I prefer she have the baby and put it up for adoption? Sure. But would I do that? No way. I'd get an abortion first. And I don't blame or fault or shame women who get them because I get it.

We have already had this talk before. I'm not a fan of eugenics. You seem to have a hard time saying abortion is wrong. Is that because you don't believe it is for some women? Do you believe that some women shouldn't kill their babies and other women should kill their babies?

 

[ding]

But as it turns out — and as it has turned out repeatedly over the course of his life — that was not, in fact, Trump’s final position on the subject. This past week alone, he has held multiple contradicting positions, including that one. So we figured that a timeline was in order, so that you could see the date and time and know, concretely, what Trump’s abortion position was at that moment.

Though he might deny it.

April 1989
Trump co-sponsored a dinner at the Plaza Hotel in Manhattan (which he then owned) honoring Robin Chandler Duke, a former president of NARAL. He chose not to attend, the New York Times reported, after his family was threatened by anti-abortion activists.

Oct. 24, 1999
Ten years later, Trump appeared on NBC in an interview with Tim Russert. In a clip that has received newfound life during this election cycle, Trump defends his broadly liberal positions by explaining that he grew up in Manhattan, not Iowa.

Asked about abortion, he’s clear.

“I’m very pro-choice,” Trump says. “I hate the concept of abortion. I hate it. I hate everything it stands for. I cringe when I listen to people debating the subject. But you still — I just believe in choice.”

Russert clarifies his original point: Would you ban partial-birth abortion? “No,” Trump replies.

Between 1999 and 2011
At some point between 1999 and 2011, Trump’s position on abortion changed. He explained the reason for his switch during the first debate of 2015.

[W]hat happened is friends of mine years ago were going to have a child, and it was going to be aborted. And it wasn’t aborted. And that child today is a total superstar, a great, great child. And I saw that. And I saw other instances.

In 2011, as he was toying with running, he told activists at the Conservative Political Action Conference that, among other conservative positions, “I am pro-life [and] against gun control.”

June 28, 2015
Shortly after announcing his candidacy, Trump appeared on CNN in an interview with Jake Tapper. He got a little tripped up.

TAPPER: Let me ask you about a few social issues because they haven’t been issues you have been talking about for several years. I know you’re opposed to abortion.

TRUMP: Right. I’m pro-choice.

TAPPER: You’re pro-choice or pro-life?

TRUMP: I’m pro-life. I’m sorry.

April 1, 2016, 6:30 p.m.
CBS releases an excerpt of its interview with Trump that aired Sunday morning. Asked again about abortion, Trump’s position seems to change yet again.

“The laws are set now on abortion and that’s the way they're going to remain until they’re changed,” he said, according to CBS’s transcript. “I would’ve preferred states’ rights. I think it would’ve been better if it were up to the states. But right now, the laws are set.... At this moment, the laws are set. And I think we have to leave it that way.”

So clearly Trump doesn't think it's murder.

Again before the program airs, the Trump campaign re-frames what the candidate said.

“Mr. Trump gave an accurate account of the law as it is today and made clear it must stay that way now — until he is president,” it read. “Then he will change the law through his judicial appointments and allow the states to protect the unborn. There is nothing new or different here.”

REALLY? Seems like it has changed.

It has always been a state decision.

Then tell everyone you are going to ban abortion right after the 2020 election. At least be honest

But I will give you this. Trump said he would punish women who got abortions if it were illegal and still 44℅ of women voted for him and he won so they can't say he wasn't honest about it.

You are skipping a whole lot of steps there, brother. Whoa. Hold up. I have not gotten within 100 miles of banning anything. Who said anything about banning abortion? Not me. I'm just trying to find out why you think abortion is moral. Well? Why do you believe abortion is moral?

I don't think it qualifies as moral but you and I have different morals. Is it moral to smoke or curse?

Nothing wrong with smoking or cursing. Although those seem like ridiculous things to compare to taking a human life, don't you think?

Does that mean you do believe it is moral to end the life of a human being? Can you tell me why you believe that?

 

[Mudda]

But as it turns out — and as it has turned out repeatedly over the course of his life — that was not, in fact, Trump’s final position on the subject. This past week alone, he has held multiple contradicting positions, including that one. So we figured that a timeline was in order, so that you could see the date and time and know, concretely, what Trump’s abortion position was at that moment.

Though he might deny it.

April 1989
Trump co-sponsored a dinner at the Plaza Hotel in Manhattan (which he then owned) honoring Robin Chandler Duke, a former president of NARAL. He chose not to attend, the New York Times reported, after his family was threatened by anti-abortion activists.

Oct. 24, 1999
Ten years later, Trump appeared on NBC in an interview with Tim Russert. In a clip that has received newfound life during this election cycle, Trump defends his broadly liberal positions by explaining that he grew up in Manhattan, not Iowa.

Asked about abortion, he’s clear.

“I’m very pro-choice,” Trump says. “I hate the concept of abortion. I hate it. I hate everything it stands for. I cringe when I listen to people debating the subject. But you still — I just believe in choice.”

Russert clarifies his original point: Would you ban partial-birth abortion? “No,” Trump replies.

Between 1999 and 2011
At some point between 1999 and 2011, Trump’s position on abortion changed. He explained the reason for his switch during the first debate of 2015.

[W]hat happened is friends of mine years ago were going to have a child, and it was going to be aborted. And it wasn’t aborted. And that child today is a total superstar, a great, great child. And I saw that. And I saw other instances.

In 2011, as he was toying with running, he told activists at the Conservative Political Action Conference that, among other conservative positions, “I am pro-life [and] against gun control.”

June 28, 2015
Shortly after announcing his candidacy, Trump appeared on CNN in an interview with Jake Tapper. He got a little tripped up.

TAPPER: Let me ask you about a few social issues because they haven’t been issues you have been talking about for several years. I know you’re opposed to abortion.

TRUMP: Right. I’m pro-choice.

TAPPER: You’re pro-choice or pro-life?

TRUMP: I’m pro-life. I’m sorry.

April 1, 2016, 6:30 p.m.
CBS releases an excerpt of its interview with Trump that aired Sunday morning. Asked again about abortion, Trump’s position seems to change yet again.

“The laws are set now on abortion and that’s the way they're going to remain until they’re changed,” he said, according to CBS’s transcript. “I would’ve preferred states’ rights. I think it would’ve been better if it were up to the states. But right now, the laws are set.... At this moment, the laws are set. And I think we have to leave it that way.”

So clearly Trump doesn't think it's murder.

Again before the program airs, the Trump campaign re-frames what the candidate said.

“Mr. Trump gave an accurate account of the law as it is today and made clear it must stay that way now — until he is president,” it read. “Then he will change the law through his judicial appointments and allow the states to protect the unborn. There is nothing new or different here.”

REALLY? Seems like it has changed.

It has always been a state decision.

Then tell everyone you are going to ban abortion right after the 2020 election. At least be honest

But I will give you this. Trump said he would punish women who got abortions if it were illegal and still 44℅ of women voted for him and he won so they can't say he wasn't honest about it.

You are skipping a whole lot of steps there, brother. Whoa. Hold up. I have not gotten within 100 miles of banning anything. Who said anything about banning abortion? Not me. I'm just trying to find out why you think abortion is moral. Well? Why do you believe abortion is moral?

Spontaneous abortions are part of nature. Morality is not involved.

 

[ding]

But as it turns out — and as it has turned out repeatedly over the course of his life — that was not, in fact, Trump’s final position on the subject. This past week alone, he has held multiple contradicting positions, including that one. So we figured that a timeline was in order, so that you could see the date and time and know, concretely, what Trump’s abortion position was at that moment.

Though he might deny it.

April 1989
Trump co-sponsored a dinner at the Plaza Hotel in Manhattan (which he then owned) honoring Robin Chandler Duke, a former president of NARAL. He chose not to attend, the New York Times reported, after his family was threatened by anti-abortion activists.

Oct. 24, 1999
Ten years later, Trump appeared on NBC in an interview with Tim Russert. In a clip that has received newfound life during this election cycle, Trump defends his broadly liberal positions by explaining that he grew up in Manhattan, not Iowa.

Asked about abortion, he’s clear.

“I’m very pro-choice,” Trump says. “I hate the concept of abortion. I hate it. I hate everything it stands for. I cringe when I listen to people debating the subject. But you still — I just believe in choice.”

Russert clarifies his original point: Would you ban partial-birth abortion? “No,” Trump replies.

Between 1999 and 2011
At some point between 1999 and 2011, Trump’s position on abortion changed. He explained the reason for his switch during the first debate of 2015.

[W]hat happened is friends of mine years ago were going to have a child, and it was going to be aborted. And it wasn’t aborted. And that child today is a total superstar, a great, great child. And I saw that. And I saw other instances.

In 2011, as he was toying with running, he told activists at the Conservative Political Action Conference that, among other conservative positions, “I am pro-life [and] against gun control.”

June 28, 2015
Shortly after announcing his candidacy, Trump appeared on CNN in an interview with Jake Tapper. He got a little tripped up.

TAPPER: Let me ask you about a few social issues because they haven’t been issues you have been talking about for several years. I know you’re opposed to abortion.

TRUMP: Right. I’m pro-choice.

TAPPER: You’re pro-choice or pro-life?

TRUMP: I’m pro-life. I’m sorry.

April 1, 2016, 6:30 p.m.
CBS releases an excerpt of its interview with Trump that aired Sunday morning. Asked again about abortion, Trump’s position seems to change yet again.

“The laws are set now on abortion and that’s the way they're going to remain until they’re changed,” he said, according to CBS’s transcript. “I would’ve preferred states’ rights. I think it would’ve been better if it were up to the states. But right now, the laws are set.... At this moment, the laws are set. And I think we have to leave it that way.”

So clearly Trump doesn't think it's murder.

Again before the program airs, the Trump campaign re-frames what the candidate said.

“Mr. Trump gave an accurate account of the law as it is today and made clear it must stay that way now — until he is president,” it read. “Then he will change the law through his judicial appointments and allow the states to protect the unborn. There is nothing new or different here.”

REALLY? Seems like it has changed.

It has always been a state decision.

Then tell everyone you are going to ban abortion right after the 2020 election. At least be honest

But I will give you this. Trump said he would punish women who got abortions if it were illegal and still 44℅ of women voted for him and he won so they can't say he wasn't honest about it.

You are skipping a whole lot of steps there, brother. Whoa. Hold up. I have not gotten within 100 miles of banning anything. Who said anything about banning abortion? Not me. I'm just trying to find out why you think abortion is moral. Well? Why do you believe abortion is moral?

Spontaneous abortions are part of nature. Morality is not involved.

Which is why we don't need to add to it. So you believe it is moral to end a human life?

 

[Mudda]

But as it turns out — and as it has turned out repeatedly over the course of his life — that was not, in fact, Trump’s final position on the subject. This past week alone, he has held multiple contradicting positions, including that one. So we figured that a timeline was in order, so that you could see the date and time and know, concretely, what Trump’s abortion position was at that moment.

Though he might deny it.

April 1989
Trump co-sponsored a dinner at the Plaza Hotel in Manhattan (which he then owned) honoring Robin Chandler Duke, a former president of NARAL. He chose not to attend, the New York Times reported, after his family was threatened by anti-abortion activists.

Oct. 24, 1999
Ten years later, Trump appeared on NBC in an interview with Tim Russert. In a clip that has received newfound life during this election cycle, Trump defends his broadly liberal positions by explaining that he grew up in Manhattan, not Iowa.

Asked about abortion, he’s clear.

“I’m very pro-choice,” Trump says. “I hate the concept of abortion. I hate it. I hate everything it stands for. I cringe when I listen to people debating the subject. But you still — I just believe in choice.”

Russert clarifies his original point: Would you ban partial-birth abortion? “No,” Trump replies.

Between 1999 and 2011
At some point between 1999 and 2011, Trump’s position on abortion changed. He explained the reason for his switch during the first debate of 2015.

[W]hat happened is friends of mine years ago were going to have a child, and it was going to be aborted. And it wasn’t aborted. And that child today is a total superstar, a great, great child. And I saw that. And I saw other instances.

In 2011, as he was toying with running, he told activists at the Conservative Political Action Conference that, among other conservative positions, “I am pro-life [and] against gun control.”

June 28, 2015
Shortly after announcing his candidacy, Trump appeared on CNN in an interview with Jake Tapper. He got a little tripped up.

TAPPER: Let me ask you about a few social issues because they haven’t been issues you have been talking about for several years. I know you’re opposed to abortion.

TRUMP: Right. I’m pro-choice.

TAPPER: You’re pro-choice or pro-life?

TRUMP: I’m pro-life. I’m sorry.

April 1, 2016, 6:30 p.m.
CBS releases an excerpt of its interview with Trump that aired Sunday morning. Asked again about abortion, Trump’s position seems to change yet again.

“The laws are set now on abortion and that’s the way they're going to remain until they’re changed,” he said, according to CBS’s transcript. “I would’ve preferred states’ rights. I think it would’ve been better if it were up to the states. But right now, the laws are set.... At this moment, the laws are set. And I think we have to leave it that way.”

So clearly Trump doesn't think it's murder.

Again before the program airs, the Trump campaign re-frames what the candidate said.

“Mr. Trump gave an accurate account of the law as it is today and made clear it must stay that way now — until he is president,” it read. “Then he will change the law through his judicial appointments and allow the states to protect the unborn. There is nothing new or different here.”

REALLY? Seems like it has changed.

It has always been a state decision.

Then tell everyone you are going to ban abortion right after the 2020 election. At least be honest

But I will give you this. Trump said he would punish women who got abortions if it were illegal and still 44℅ of women voted for him and he won so they can't say he wasn't honest about it.

You are skipping a whole lot of steps there, brother. Whoa. Hold up. I have not gotten within 100 miles of banning anything. Who said anything about banning abortion? Not me. I'm just trying to find out why you think abortion is moral. Well? Why do you believe abortion is moral?

Spontaneous abortions are part of nature. Morality is not involved.

Which is why we don't need to add to it. So you believe it is moral to end a human life?

It is sometimes amoral not to.

 

[sealybobo]

Great scene in orange is the new black where the woman explains to the meth head how she did those kids and society a favor by aborting. Ask most people in that case they condoln abortion.

And ask a girl who doesn't want to have a baby if abortion should be legal she'll say yes. How she got pregnant doesn't matter.

Human life just isn't that precious. Scientifically it's just a seed and feels nothing. Simple safe and quick.

Sucks to be the seed true but

You are equating legal to right. It doesn't work that way. There was a time it was legal to own people. You could have dine anything you wanted to with them and it would have been legal.

Of course human life is precious. Don't be an idiot. Look around the universe. It's a pretty inhospitable place. There aren't many places where you will find the beings that know and create. How is that not precious? How is that not rare? How can the universe evolving to be able to have a discussion with itself not be remarkable?

rare
rer/
adjective

1. (of an event, situation, or condition) not occurring very often.
   "a rare genetic disorder"
   synonyms: infrequent, scarce, sparse, few and far between, thin on the ground, like gold dust, as scarce as hen's teeth; More
   • (of a thing) not found in large numbers and consequently of interest or value.
     "the jellyfish tree, one of the rarest plants on earth"
     synonyms: unusual, recherché, uncommon, unfamiliar, atypical, singular
     "rare stamps"
   • unusually good or remarkable.
     "he plays with rare strength and sensitivity"
     synonyms: exceptional, outstanding, unparalleled, peerless, matchless, unique, unrivaled, inimitable, beyond compare, without equal, second to none, unsurpassed; More

People die or suffer every second and you don't lose a minutes sleep.

The problem is not everyone who fucks should be a parent.

Yep, I'm no different from you in that regard. I can't know what I don't know. So the fuck what? What does that have to do with life is rare and precious? Are you so lacking in logic that you fail to recognize what makes something rare? Because it makes no fucking sense whatsoever that just because some people don't act like life is rare and precious, that life is not rare and precious. The reality is that when anyone's life is threatened they damn sure do act like life is rare and precious because they will do almost anything to keep it.

Yep, not everyone who fucks should be a parent. Again... so what? What the fuck does that have to do with it being wrong to end a human life? You would be much better off just admitting the truth and be done with it. Help me help you.

Well it's not ideal no but too many rational good people still believe it's not a big deal to get an abortion. Even if they wouldn't get one themselves.

There are women who should get abortions if they get pregnant. Would I prefer she have the baby and put it up for adoption? Sure. But would I do that? No way. I'd get an abortion first. And I don't blame or fault or shame women who get them because I get it.

We have already had this talk before. I'm not a fan of eugenics. You seem to have a hard time saying abortion is wrong. Is that because you don't believe it is for some women? Do you believe that some women shouldn't kill their babies and other women should kill their babies?

Whoever wants too. Not all women should be mommys

 

[sealybobo]

Unless it's the wrong time to start one.

You just can't force a woman to have a baby when its first trimester. That seed won't know the difference.

We already had this discussion in the 60s

The standard does not care how or why or what happened. The standard is that it is wrong to end a human life. Making exceptions is normalizing a deviance and it does have predictable surprises.

Assisted suicide is legal in some states. Is that wrong?

Yes. Do you think the people who did it go out partying after it or something?

I don't think you understand the concept that I first laid out for you. Start with the highest standard possible. And when you don't meet it, don't rationalize that you did. Because that will be a losing hand. You don't want to play a losing hand, do you?

Now that we are done discussing your fringe argument that was totally unrelated to an abortion of convenience, Let's talk about abortion. Is it wrong to abort a baby for convenience? Which is really what we are talking about. You were the one who revived this thread, right?

Great scene in orange is the new black where the woman explains to the meth head how she did those kids and society a favor by aborting. Ask most people in that case they condoln abortion.

And ask a girl who doesn't want to have a baby if abortion should be legal she'll say yes. How she got pregnant doesn't matter.

Human life just isn't that precious. Scientifically it's just a seed and feels nothing. Simple safe and quick.

Sucks to be the seed true but

You are equating legal to right. It doesn't work that way. There was a time it was legal to own people. You could have dine anything you wanted to with them and it would have been legal.

Of course human life is precious. Don't be an idiot. Look around the universe. It's a pretty inhospitable place. There aren't many places where you will find the beings that know and create. How is that not precious? How is that not rare? How can the universe evolving to be able to have a discussion with itself not be remarkable?

rare
rer/
adjective

1. (of an event, situation, or condition) not occurring very often.
   "a rare genetic disorder"
   synonyms: infrequent, scarce, sparse, few and far between, thin on the ground, like gold dust, as scarce as hen's teeth; More
   • (of a thing) not found in large numbers and consequently of interest or value.
     "the jellyfish tree, one of the rarest plants on earth"
     synonyms: unusual, recherché, uncommon, unfamiliar, atypical, singular
     "rare stamps"
   • unusually good or remarkable.
     "he plays with rare strength and sensitivity"
     synonyms: exceptional, outstanding, unparalleled, peerless, matchless, unique, unrivaled, inimitable, beyond compare, without equal, second to none, unsurpassed; More

How many stars are in our universe? Chances are good that life has does or will exist at some time in the billions of years that star burns. Every star. So life is not rare it just seems that way to us.

We do have too many people. Look at how we are over fishing our oceans.

I would prefer bad women not get pregnant in the first place of course but I don't want to force bad women into having a child they won't raise properly.