airforce now forces you to swear to god

[SmarterThanTheAverageBear]

Of course it wouldn't. That wasn't the point of bringing it up

i get your point and i know you give up certain rights when you join up....Sister is in the navy, that being said it should be removed.

I think it should be optional . It means nothing either way, if those who want to say it feel better saying it , let them. If those who don't want to say don't. Let them. Either way no one is harmed.

thats how it was till they changed it.

And it should STILL be that way. God only knows why Congress changed it.

Honestly though if this dumb shit wouldn't have crossed out the portion of the oath and then just not said the words no one would have said anything.

 

[Plasmaball]

Of course it wouldn't. That wasn't the point of bringing it up

i get your point and i know you give up certain rights when you join up....Sister is in the navy, that being said it should be removed.

I think it should be optional . It means nothing either way, if those who want to say it feel better saying it , let them. If those who don't want to say don't. Let them. Either way no one is harmed.

thats how it was till they changed it.

And it should STILL be that way. God only knows why Congress changed it.

Honestly though if this dumb shit wouldn't have crossed out the portion of the oath and then just not said the words no one would have said anything.

i didnt read that congress changed it.link?

 

[AvgGuyIA]

I don't see how forcing people to break the third commandment is a good thing.

As a Christian believer, I think you raise a valid point. I presume you agree with the remaining nine Commandments?

 

[SmarterThanTheAverageBear]

First of all, saying "so help me god" isn't inclusive to the Christian faith.
Second, to this atheist I would say, just go with it dude, no one cares or even thinks about whether you're actually swearing aliegence to a god.

So....people are expected to just "go with it"....must not mean much then, eh?

Still want an answer.....Are our military expected to give up their Freedom of Religion?

Except as allowed by the UCMJ, YES , if you had actually served you'd know that.

 

[Seawytch]

I have to strongly disagree. Not ever one worships God. Requiring person being sworn in to swear to a diety they don't worship is just plain wrong. It should be optional.

Yes it should be but I HAD to say it. I had to swear or affirm, but the words "so help me god" were not removed even though I had requested not to say them.

 

[SmarterThanTheAverageBear]

Of course it wouldn't. That wasn't the point of bringing it up

i get your point and i know you give up certain rights when you join up....Sister is in the navy, that being said it should be removed.

I think it should be optional . It means nothing either way, if those who want to say it feel better saying it , let them. If those who don't want to say don't. Let them. Either way no one is harmed.

thats how it was till they changed it.

And it should STILL be that way. God only knows why Congress changed it.

Honestly though if this dumb shit wouldn't have crossed out the portion of the oath and then just not said the words no one would have said anything.

i didnt read that congress changed it.link?

From your own link

The Air Force said last week that the change was made to bring its oath in line with the statutory requirement under Title 10 USC 502. The Air Force said it cannot change its AFI to make “so help me God” optional unless Congress changes the statute mandating the oath.

after rereading I admit that the rule may have always been ignored up until recently and someone along the line simply decided to start enforcing it.

 

[Plasmaball]

Of course it wouldn't. That wasn't the point of bringing it up

i get your point and i know you give up certain rights when you join up....Sister is in the navy, that being said it should be removed.

I think it should be optional . It means nothing either way, if those who want to say it feel better saying it , let them. If those who don't want to say don't. Let them. Either way no one is harmed.

thats how it was till they changed it.

And it should STILL be that way. God only knows why Congress changed it.

Honestly though if this dumb shit wouldn't have crossed out the portion of the oath and then just not said the words no one would have said anything.

i didnt read that congress changed it.link?

From your own link

The Air Force said last week that the change was made to bring its oath in line with the statutory requirement under Title 10 USC 502. The Air Force said it cannot change its AFI to make “so help me God” optional unless Congress changes the statute mandating the oath.

after rereading I admit that the rule may have always been ignored up until recently and someone along the line simply decided to start enforcing it.

ah....thanks. so then this wont be changed anytime soon then

 

[SmarterThanTheAverageBear]

Of course it wouldn't. That wasn't the point of bringing it up

i get your point and i know you give up certain rights when you join up....Sister is in the navy, that being said it should be removed.

I think it should be optional . It means nothing either way, if those who want to say it feel better saying it , let them. If those who don't want to say don't. Let them. Either way no one is harmed.

thats how it was till they changed it.

And it should STILL be that way. God only knows why Congress changed it.

Honestly though if this dumb shit wouldn't have crossed out the portion of the oath and then just not said the words no one would have said anything.

i didnt read that congress changed it.link?

From your own link

The Air Force said last week that the change was made to bring its oath in line with the statutory requirement under Title 10 USC 502. The Air Force said it cannot change its AFI to make “so help me God” optional unless Congress changes the statute mandating the oath.

after rereading I admit that the rule may have always been ignored up until recently and someone along the line simply decided to start enforcing it.

ah....thanks. so then this wont be changed anytime soon then

Not unless a certain poster can get the ACLU to take on the AF or Congress

 

[Seawytch]

It was never an option from 1983 to 2003

 

[Plasmaball]

Of course it wouldn't. That wasn't the point of bringing it up

i get your point and i know you give up certain rights when you join up....Sister is in the navy, that being said it should be removed.

I think it should be optional . It means nothing either way, if those who want to say it feel better saying it , let them. If those who don't want to say don't. Let them. Either way no one is harmed.

thats how it was till they changed it.

And it should STILL be that way. God only knows why Congress changed it.

Honestly though if this dumb shit wouldn't have crossed out the portion of the oath and then just not said the words no one would have said anything.

i didnt read that congress changed it.link?

From your own link

The Air Force said last week that the change was made to bring its oath in line with the statutory requirement under Title 10 USC 502. The Air Force said it cannot change its AFI to make “so help me God” optional unless Congress changes the statute mandating the oath.

after rereading I admit that the rule may have always been ignored up until recently and someone along the line simply decided to start enforcing it.

ah....thanks. so then this wont be changed anytime soon then

Not unless a certain poster can get the ACLU to take on the AF or Congress

well the ACLU could make a stink and force them....

 

[Dot Com]

Atheist airman must swear so help me God or get out in November Air Force Times airforcetimes.com

Oh the title isnt a lie.

The Air Force used to allow airmen to omit the phrase “so help me God” if they so chose. But an Oct. 30, 2013, update to Air Force Instruction 36-2606, which spells out the active-duty oath of enlistment, dropped that option. Since that quiet update to the AFI, airmen have been required to swear an oath to a deity when they enlist or reenlist.

The idea that any branch requires you to swear an oath to god in order to fight for this nation is an insult to serving in the military since we have people serving of all faiths.

I agree. We need to rip evangelism out of the military by the roots.

 

[bodecea]

First of all, saying "so help me god" isn't inclusive to the Christian faith.
Second, to this atheist I would say, just go with it dude, no one cares or even thinks about whether you're actually swearing aliegence to a god.

So....people are expected to just "go with it"....must not mean much then, eh?

Still want an answer.....Are our military expected to give up their Freedom of Religion?

Except as allowed by the UCMJ, YES , if you had actually served you'd know that.

Really? Freedom of Religion is taken away when you are in the military? Do tell. They have to make me be a certain religion, eh?

 

[SmarterThanTheAverageBear]

It was never an option from 1983 to 2003

As always that kind of thing depends on the person both taking and giving the oath.

I know many guys who just didn't say it, nothing was ever said.

 

[bodecea]

First of all, saying "so help me god" isn't inclusive to the Christian faith.
Second, to this atheist I would say, just go with it dude, no one cares or even thinks about whether you're actually swearing aliegence to a god.

So....people are expected to just "go with it"....must not mean much then, eh?

Still want an answer.....Are our military expected to give up their Freedom of Religion?

Except as allowed by the UCMJ, YES , if you had actually served you'd know that.

Really? Freedom of Religion is taken away when you are in the military? Do tell. They have to make me be a certain religion, eh?

And people say the RW isn't trying to make us a Christian theocracy?

 

[SmarterThanTheAverageBear]

First of all, saying "so help me god" isn't inclusive to the Christian faith.
Second, to this atheist I would say, just go with it dude, no one cares or even thinks about whether you're actually swearing aliegence to a god.

So....people are expected to just "go with it"....must not mean much then, eh?

Still want an answer.....Are our military expected to give up their Freedom of Religion?

Except as allowed by the UCMJ, YES , if you had actually served you'd know that.

Really? Freedom of Religion is taken away when you are in the military? Do tell. They have to make me be a certain religion, eh?

what part of "except as allowed by the UCMJ" don't you understand?

By the way , which post was it that you admitted you were wrong when you claimed this ariman was no longer in the Air Force?

My God you are pathetic, and so transparent.

 

[koshergrl]

First of all, saying "so help me god" isn't inclusive to the Christian faith.
Second, to this atheist I would say, just go with it dude, no one cares or even thinks about whether you're actually swearing aliegence to a god.

So....people are expected to just "go with it"....must not mean much then, eh?

Still want an answer.....Are our military expected to give up their Freedom of Religion?

Except as allowed by the UCMJ, YES , if you had actually served you'd know that.

Really? Freedom of Religion is taken away when you are in the military? Do tell. They have to make me be a certain religion, eh?

And people say the RW isn't trying to make us a Christian theocracy?

Why are you talking to yourself?

 

[SmarterThanTheAverageBear]

First of all, saying "so help me god" isn't inclusive to the Christian faith.
Second, to this atheist I would say, just go with it dude, no one cares or even thinks about whether you're actually swearing aliegence to a god.

So....people are expected to just "go with it"....must not mean much then, eh?

Still want an answer.....Are our military expected to give up their Freedom of Religion?

Except as allowed by the UCMJ, YES , if you had actually served you'd know that.

Really? Freedom of Religion is taken away when you are in the military? Do tell. They have to make me be a certain religion, eh?

And people say the RW isn't trying to make us a Christian theocracy?

Why are you talking to yourself?

Herself is the only person who believes she's a retired lesbian Naval Aviator.

 

[koshergrl]

Naw, even she doesn't believe it.

But she's bound to the lie, so she goes on, year after year....

 

[SmarterThanTheAverageBear]

Naw, even she doesn't believe it.

But she's bound to the lie, so she goes on, year after year....

There is NO WAY a formal Naval officer wouldn't admit to an error over something as simple as was this guy still in the AF or not?

 

[SillyWabbit]

I'd swear the oath to God.--but I'd cross my fingers in my head.