America Founded as a Christian Nation

[bodecea]

Due to popular request I am starting a thread covering the fact that America was begun as a Christian nation. Be forewarned, I will not respond to posts that are more than twelve or so paragraphs. If we are going to discuss the issue, it has to be a few things at a time. Bottom line: America was founded as a Christian nation.

As soon as one says that the atheists and other non-believers will start with their lies and straw man arguments. They will tell you that I just said America was founded as a theocracy. AMERICA WAS NOT FOUNDED AS A THEOCRACY. IT WAS FOUNDED AS A REPUBLIC BASED UPON CHRISTIAN PRINCIPLES.

Politics is nothing more than religion in action. Our sense of right and wrong are all predicated on moral values and we got from biblical precepts. The very first governing document of the New World was the Mayflower Compact. It states:

In the name of God, Amen. We, whose names are underwritten, the loyal subjects of our dread Sovereign Lord King James, by the Grace of God, of Great Britain, France, and Ireland, King, defender of the Faith, etc.


Having undertaken, for the Glory of God, and “advancements of the Christian faith”

Okay, I’m well aware that St. Augustine is the oldest city in the U.S, the Spaniards were there before the colonists and that other colonists preceded those on the Mayflower. That Mayflower Compact was the first GOVERNING document of the New World. Colonization and founding are synonymous.

The First Charter of Virginia of 1606 stated:

“We greatly commending, and graciously accepting of, their Desires for the Furtherance of so noble a Work, which may, by the Providence of Almighty God, hereafter tend to the Glory his Divine Majesty, in propagating of Christian Religion to such People, as yet live in Darkness and miserable Ignorance of the true Knowledge and Worship of God, and may in time bring the Infidels and Savages, living in those parts, to human Civility, to a settled and quiet government.”

Similar language attesting to our Christian roots during this period would be the Second Charter of Virginia of 1609, Third Charter of Virginia 1611 – 1612, The Charter of New England 1620, Ordinances For Virginia, July 24, 1621, The Charter of Massachusetts Bay 1629, and I will add more to the chorological order each time I post.

In 1630, John Winthrop delivered a sermon aboard the Arbella as it sailed toward the New World. That sermon has been cited by U.S. statesmen including, but not limited to JFK and Ronald Reagan. It defines WHO the colonists were and what their objective was in the New World. Any sermon being quoted by American politicians 300 years later deserves to be examined. Here is a link to it and it is a must read if you want to add intelligent commentary to this thread:

https://www.casa-arts.org/cms/lib/PA01925203/Centricity/Domain/50/A Model of Christian Charity.pdf More to come

I think that it would be appropriate to point out that this nation, which you claim to be founded as a Christian nation, was also founded as a slave nation. That pretty much negates any positive Christian values that were involved during the founding.

Complete utter B.S. and an outright LIE. The Constitution had a provision for gradually phasing out the slave trade.

The Act Prohibiting Importation of Slaves of 1807 (2 Stat. 426, enacted March 2, 1807) is a United States federal law that provided that no new slaves were permitted to be imported into the United States. It took effect in 1808, the earliest date permitted by the United States Constitution.

Slave trade....never slavery.

 

[NotfooledbyW]

1. Our system of government did not, and does not define who we are.

I said our system of government defines our nation, our national identity.

i’m not saying it defines who we are as individuals or groups.

Think about at least getting what I write correct before replying.

 

[Porter Rockwell]

3. There is nothing inherent in admitting that the nation was founded as a Christian Nation, that means you have to support any political agenda moving forward. It just means that anyone arguing in the interests of Christians or for a Christian serving political agenda, has SOME measure of traditional credibility to draw on.

You want anyone arguing in the interests of Christians or for a Christian serving political agenda, has SOME measure of traditional credibility to draw on.

Revising the multitude of factors that went into the founding of America into a simple phrase that America was founded as a Christian nation, When it is not true, gives no measure of traditional credibility to be drawn upon.

i haven’t seen anyone say Christianity had no contribution to the founding? It’s that other things such as The Enlightenment philosophers in my mind has more to do with counting the numbers of Christians that lived here when our great nation was born,

if a Christian can’t make an a argument without Having some kind of official mandate that it be Universally known that America was founded as a Christian nation maybe they should start looking for a new line of work.

Again, even those you think of as "enlightened" were not antithetical to Christianity. Regardless of who contributed what is irrelevant. What we ended up with as a final product is the result. I would not have like the final product at the time, but it was the best the framers could do given the marginal contributions the liberals of the day wanted.

This stuff has already been asked and answered. My God. Do I have to babysit you every day?

 

[Porter Rockwell]

Sir, you began name calling.

Not True.

This was my first post. Where is there an insult?

Due to popular request I am starting a thread covering the fact that America was begun as a Christian nation.

There were Christians involved in the founding and revolt against the King,

How many currently immersed and obsessed with Christianity today would have appreciated one if the greatest minds of all the founders declaring that the Christian Bible is full of political dung. Nice word for bullshit.

• Jefferson was most comfortable with Deism, rational religion, and Unitarianism.[3] He was sympathetic to and in general agreement with the moral precepts of Christianity.[4] He considered the teachings of Jesus as having "the most sublime and benevolent code of morals which has ever been offered to man,"[5] yet he held that the pure teachings of Jesus appeared to have been appropriated by some of Jesus' early followers, resulting in a Bible that contained both "diamonds" of wisdom and the "dung" of ancient political agendas.[6]. Religious views of Thomas Jefferson - Wikipedia

You insulted me on your very first reply to my very first post.

You wrote “ Ignorance is bliss, brother and you seem to enjoy it.”

I'm not reading this freaking thread over. I am confident that if anybody gives a rat's ass they will READ THE THREAD. I told exactly how this thread would play out in posts 1 and 2 and you went and proved me right.

If you look at Donald Trump, he takes a giant dump on the Bible and the Constitution every day. Yet there are those who revere the man as if his words were the Word of God because he occasionally invokes emotion laden buzz words and emotional terms. So, did the politicians during the Constitutional Convention. They were human beings. Even Christians are fallible sinners. Get over it.

You cannot bring anything new to the table and I would appreciate it if you acted like you could be respectful. But since you can't, many people are getting a taste of what it would be like to live under your hellish idea of utopia.

 

[Porter Rockwell]

Due to popular request I am starting a thread covering the fact that America was begun as a Christian nation. Be forewarned, I will not respond to posts that are more than twelve or so paragraphs. If we are going to discuss the issue, it has to be a few things at a time. Bottom line: America was founded as a Christian nation.

As soon as one says that the atheists and other non-believers will start with their lies and straw man arguments. They will tell you that I just said America was founded as a theocracy. AMERICA WAS NOT FOUNDED AS A THEOCRACY. IT WAS FOUNDED AS A REPUBLIC BASED UPON CHRISTIAN PRINCIPLES.

Politics is nothing more than religion in action. Our sense of right and wrong are all predicated on moral values and we got from biblical precepts. The very first governing document of the New World was the Mayflower Compact. It states:

In the name of God, Amen. We, whose names are underwritten, the loyal subjects of our dread Sovereign Lord King James, by the Grace of God, of Great Britain, France, and Ireland, King, defender of the Faith, etc.


Having undertaken, for the Glory of God, and “advancements of the Christian faith”

Okay, I’m well aware that St. Augustine is the oldest city in the U.S, the Spaniards were there before the colonists and that other colonists preceded those on the Mayflower. That Mayflower Compact was the first GOVERNING document of the New World. Colonization and founding are synonymous.

The First Charter of Virginia of 1606 stated:

“We greatly commending, and graciously accepting of, their Desires for the Furtherance of so noble a Work, which may, by the Providence of Almighty God, hereafter tend to the Glory his Divine Majesty, in propagating of Christian Religion to such People, as yet live in Darkness and miserable Ignorance of the true Knowledge and Worship of God, and may in time bring the Infidels and Savages, living in those parts, to human Civility, to a settled and quiet government.”

Similar language attesting to our Christian roots during this period would be the Second Charter of Virginia of 1609, Third Charter of Virginia 1611 – 1612, The Charter of New England 1620, Ordinances For Virginia, July 24, 1621, The Charter of Massachusetts Bay 1629, and I will add more to the chorological order each time I post.

In 1630, John Winthrop delivered a sermon aboard the Arbella as it sailed toward the New World. That sermon has been cited by U.S. statesmen including, but not limited to JFK and Ronald Reagan. It defines WHO the colonists were and what their objective was in the New World. Any sermon being quoted by American politicians 300 years later deserves to be examined. Here is a link to it and it is a must read if you want to add intelligent commentary to this thread:

https://www.casa-arts.org/cms/lib/PA01925203/Centricity/Domain/50/A Model of Christian Charity.pdf More to come

Nope. It was not.

Yawn. The case was proven. You're too late for the debate unless you're smart enough to READ THE THREAD. You were already anticipated anyway (see posts # 1 and 2.) Thank you for proving me right.

 

[rightwinger]

View attachment 300796

Those quotes are about as worthless as tits on a boar hog since there is no verification mechanism (i.e. link; name of the speech, book, etc.)

You're wasting bandwidth.

The quotes show how our founders felt about a Christian nation

Your quotes do not link to a verifiable source so that it can be verified for accuracy and to make sure you are quoting things in context.

Additionally, HAD YOU READ THE THREAD, I pointed out that people say many different things in the course of their lives so what was going on at a specific time and in what context is relevant.

Another point I have not made is that sometimes politicians tell the people one thing and cast their vote in Congress (or in the Constitutional Convention) another way. I look at the final product. The final product is that America has a system of jurisprudence based on Christian laws and that our values derive from the Bible. As a personal note: I'm like Patrick Henry. I did not like the final product and his predictions were proven accurate. But, like Patrick Henry, I accepted the Constitution as originally written and intended. Nobody asked so I gave you that one for free.

Google is your friend


We are no more a Christian nation than we are a white male nation

 

[NotfooledbyW]

(01) Porter Rockwell, post: 23883662

Again, even those you think of as "enlightened" were not antithetical to Christianity.

I agree and have posted that agreement. One of my points from the start has been that mainstream Christians that held the common belief in the Divinity of Christ etc have been antithetical to those who were enlightened by the enlightenment. That goes back to the Catholic Church banning Montesquieu’s book which enlightened the world about the ideas of separation of powers, protections against tyranny, freedom of religion etc.

Therefore I find it impossible to accept any notion that we must declare or even agree that America was founded as a Christian nation by dismissing Enlightenment principles as if they evolved because Christianity from the lowest common believers to the highest priest or Christian Monarch.




(02) Porter Rockwell, post: 23883662

Regardless of who contributed what is irrelevant.

I agree with that too. As long as you fairly and honestly mean that Christianity was irrelevant as well.

No need to brand America as founded as a Christian nation at all.

it was a confluence of existing culture and common beliefs with great enlightened minds that contributed to the founding of America.


My opinion is that Christian influence on the founders was not as important as that from the enlightenment. Christian minds generally were not as focused on designing a nation as were the Great Philosophers. But the philosophers needed population to build it and make it work.

The population that occupied the thirteen colonies was a good one to test their design.

No need to give the population all the credit.

 

[Questioner]

View attachment 300796

Those quotes are about as worthless as tits on a boar hog since there is no verification mechanism (i.e. link; name of the speech, book, etc.)

You're wasting bandwidth.

The quotes show how our founders felt about a Christian nation

Your quotes do not link to a verifiable source so that it can be verified for accuracy and to make sure you are quoting things in context.

Additionally, HAD YOU READ THE THREAD, I pointed out that people say many different things in the course of their lives so what was going on at a specific time and in what context is relevant.

Another point I have not made is that sometimes politicians tell the people one thing and cast their vote in Congress (or in the Constitutional Convention) another way. I look at the final product. The final product is that America has a system of jurisprudence based on Christian laws and that our values derive from the Bible. As a personal note: I'm like Patrick Henry. I did not like the final product and his predictions were proven accurate. But, like Patrick Henry, I accepted the Constitution as originally written and intended. Nobody asked so I gave you that one for free.

Google is your friend


We are no more a Christian nation than we are a white male nation

In actuality, the Common Law by which the states are governed is far more accommodating and derivable from Christianity than it is the beliefs of cults or ideologies such as "LeVayan Satanism", or nihilistic versions of atheism, as well as the little cults and ideologies which so many forms of left-wing identarian politics comprise. (The Federal Constitution is something of a different beast, but in practice most legislation which affects people's lives on a daily basis is state, not federal anyway; people just seem to blindly or kindly ignore this truth - name a single action by Trump which affected your lives more than a bill signed by your governor, for example).

So it would only make sense that public and private institutions would naturally favor ones compatible with these ideologies and worldviews over inferior ones which don't or aren't, using some healthy degree of sanity, reason, and common sense in that regard, inherant worths of other ideological proposals or assertions being a separate issue entirely.

Rather than pretending that "all or none" is even an idea proposed to begin with, when in reality it's merely "some or none".

 

[NotfooledbyW]

Due to popular request I am starting a thread covering the fact that America was begun as a Christian nation. Be forewarned, I will not respond to posts that are more than twelve or so paragraphs. If we are going to discuss the issue, it has to be a few things at a time. Bottom line: America was founded as a Christian nation.

As soon as one says that the atheists and other non-believers will start with their lies and straw man arguments. They will tell you that I just said America was founded as a theocracy. AMERICA WAS NOT FOUNDED AS A THEOCRACY. IT WAS FOUNDED AS A REPUBLIC BASED UPON CHRISTIAN PRINCIPLES.

Politics is nothing more than religion in action. Our sense of right and wrong are all predicated on moral values and we got from biblical precepts. The very first governing document of the New World was the Mayflower Compact. It states:

In the name of God, Amen. We, whose names are underwritten, the loyal subjects of our dread Sovereign Lord King James, by the Grace of God, of Great Britain, France, and Ireland, King, defender of the Faith, etc.


Having undertaken, for the Glory of God, and “advancements of the Christian faith”

Okay, I’m well aware that St. Augustine is the oldest city in the U.S, the Spaniards were there before the colonists and that other colonists preceded those on the Mayflower. That Mayflower Compact was the first GOVERNING document of the New World. Colonization and founding are synonymous.

The First Charter of Virginia of 1606 stated:

“We greatly commending, and graciously accepting of, their Desires for the Furtherance of so noble a Work, which may, by the Providence of Almighty God, hereafter tend to the Glory his Divine Majesty, in propagating of Christian Religion to such People, as yet live in Darkness and miserable Ignorance of the true Knowledge and Worship of God, and may in time bring the Infidels and Savages, living in those parts, to human Civility, to a settled and quiet government.”

Similar language attesting to our Christian roots during this period would be the Second Charter of Virginia of 1609, Third Charter of Virginia 1611 – 1612, The Charter of New England 1620, Ordinances For Virginia, July 24, 1621, The Charter of Massachusetts Bay 1629, and I will add more to the chorological order each time I post.

In 1630, John Winthrop delivered a sermon aboard the Arbella as it sailed toward the New World. That sermon has been cited by U.S. statesmen including, but not limited to JFK and Ronald Reagan. It defines WHO the colonists were and what their objective was in the New World. Any sermon being quoted by American politicians 300 years later deserves to be examined. Here is a link to it and it is a must read if you want to add intelligent commentary to this thread:

https://www.casa-arts.org/cms/lib/PA01925203/Centricity/Domain/50/A Model of Christian Charity.pdf More to come

Nope. It was not.

Yawn. The case was proven. You're too late for the debate unless you're smart enough to READ THE THREAD. You were already anticipated anyway (see posts # 1 and 2.) Thank you for proving me right.

Rockwell decided the crucial case in his head was proven prior to starting the thread.

He’s proven that white Christians were the majority at the time of the founding.

But who in thee hell didn’t know that already.

 

[rightwinger]

View attachment 300796

Those quotes are about as worthless as tits on a boar hog since there is no verification mechanism (i.e. link; name of the speech, book, etc.)

You're wasting bandwidth.

The quotes show how our founders felt about a Christian nation

Your quotes do not link to a verifiable source so that it can be verified for accuracy and to make sure you are quoting things in context.

Additionally, HAD YOU READ THE THREAD, I pointed out that people say many different things in the course of their lives so what was going on at a specific time and in what context is relevant.

Another point I have not made is that sometimes politicians tell the people one thing and cast their vote in Congress (or in the Constitutional Convention) another way. I look at the final product. The final product is that America has a system of jurisprudence based on Christian laws and that our values derive from the Bible. As a personal note: I'm like Patrick Henry. I did not like the final product and his predictions were proven accurate. But, like Patrick Henry, I accepted the Constitution as originally written and intended. Nobody asked so I gave you that one for free.

Google is your friend


We are no more a Christian nation than we are a white male nation

In actuality, the Common Law by which the states are governed is far more accommodating and derivable from Christianity than it is the beliefs of cults or ideologies such as "LeVayan Satanism", or nihilistic versions of atheism, as well as the little cults and ideologies which so many forms of left-wing identarian politics comprise. (The Federal Constitution is something of a different beast, but in practice most legislation which affects people's lives on a daily basis is state, not federal anyway; people just seem to blindly or kindly ignore this truth - name a single action by Trump which affected your lives more than a bill signed by your governor, for example).

So it would only make sense that public and private institutions would naturally favor ones compatible with these ideologies and worldviews over inferior ones which don't or aren't, using some healthy degree of sanity, reason, and common sense in that regard, inherant worths of other ideological proposals or assertions being a separate issue entirely.

Rather than pretending that "all or none" is even an idea proposed to begin with, when in reality it's merely "some or none".

Public law gives people more protections than Biblical Law

Modern law is superior

 

[Porter Rockwell]

View attachment 300796

Those quotes are about as worthless as tits on a boar hog since there is no verification mechanism (i.e. link; name of the speech, book, etc.)

You're wasting bandwidth.

The quotes show how our founders felt about a Christian nation

Your quotes do not link to a verifiable source so that it can be verified for accuracy and to make sure you are quoting things in context.

Additionally, HAD YOU READ THE THREAD, I pointed out that people say many different things in the course of their lives so what was going on at a specific time and in what context is relevant.

Another point I have not made is that sometimes politicians tell the people one thing and cast their vote in Congress (or in the Constitutional Convention) another way. I look at the final product. The final product is that America has a system of jurisprudence based on Christian laws and that our values derive from the Bible. As a personal note: I'm like Patrick Henry. I did not like the final product and his predictions were proven accurate. But, like Patrick Henry, I accepted the Constitution as originally written and intended. Nobody asked so I gave you that one for free.

Google is your friend


We are no more a Christian nation than we are a white male nation[/QUOTE

And yet the blacks disagree with you every day. How's that? You are afraid to access the links and participate in the conversation and too dumb to understand this subject. Your criticisms are the result of ignorance and laziness.

 

[rightwinger]

View attachment 300796

Those quotes are about as worthless as tits on a boar hog since there is no verification mechanism (i.e. link; name of the speech, book, etc.)

You're wasting bandwidth.

The quotes show how our founders felt about a Christian nation

Your quotes do not link to a verifiable source so that it can be verified for accuracy and to make sure you are quoting things in context.

Additionally, HAD YOU READ THE THREAD, I pointed out that people say many different things in the course of their lives so what was going on at a specific time and in what context is relevant.

Another point I have not made is that sometimes politicians tell the people one thing and cast their vote in Congress (or in the Constitutional Convention) another way. I look at the final product. The final product is that America has a system of jurisprudence based on Christian laws and that our values derive from the Bible. As a personal note: I'm like Patrick Henry. I did not like the final product and his predictions were proven accurate. But, like Patrick Henry, I accepted the Constitution as originally written and intended. Nobody asked so I gave you that one for free.

Google is your friend


We are no more a Christian nation than we are a white male nation[/QUOTE

And yet the blacks disagree with you every day. How's that? You are afraid to access the links and participate in the conversation and too dumb to understand this subject. Your criticisms are the result of ignorance and laziness.

Blacks disagree with me?

WTF does that have to do with us being a secular nation?

 

[Porter Rockwell]

(01) Porter Rockwell, post: 23883662

Again, even those you think of as "enlightened" were not antithetical to Christianity.

I agree and have posted that agreement. One of my points from the start has been that mainstream Christians that held the common belief in the Divinity of Christ etc have been antithetical to those who were enlightened by the enlightenment. That goes back to the Catholic Church banning Montesquieu’s book which enlightened the world about the ideas of separation of powers, protections against tyranny, freedom of religion etc.

Therefore I find it impossible to accept any notion that we must declare or even agree that America was founded as a Christian nation by dismissing Enlightenment principles as if they evolved because Christianity from the lowest common believers to the highest priest or Christian Monarch.




(02) Porter Rockwell, post: 23883662

Regardless of who contributed what is irrelevant.

I agree with that too. As long as you fairly and honestly mean that Christianity was irrelevant as well.

No need to brand America as founded as a Christian nation at all.

it was a confluence of existing culture and common beliefs with great enlightened minds that contributed to the founding of America.


My opinion is that Christian influence on the founders was not as important as that from the enlightenment. Christian minds generally were not as focused on designing a nation as were the Great Philosophers. But the philosophers needed population to build it and make it work.

The population that occupied the thirteen colonies was a good one to test their design.

No need to give the population all the credit.

From another poster in post #308:

"In actuality, the Common Law by which the states are governed is far more accommodating and derivable from Christianity than it is the beliefs of cults or ideologies such as "LeVayan Satanism", or nihilistic versions of atheism, as well as the little cults and ideologies which so many forms of left-wing identarian politics comprise."

That is irrefutable. You keep wanting to argue against facts. It has been covered, factually, who influenced the framers has factually dealt with. - it's in the thread. I have 12 to 14 posts that put this stuff in context and refute most of your basic beliefs. I'm working on the differences on what you believe and what being a Christian nation consists of. But, I cannot babysit you and make progress and bluntly, it will be a cold day in Hell before I stop to refute your posts when what you're bringing up has been dealt with and refuted.

Our common law is based upon Christianity. That is not my opinion; it wouldn't make two hoots in Hell whether or not I like it or believe it, it is true. That is what they teach in first year law school even if we don't actually practice it. Stare decisis / precedents constitute most of the actual "law" made in this country. Since Trump, Executive Orders and the courts have make well over 80 percent of the laws and the precedents they rely on involved some principle of law found in the Bible.

We are not a theocracy as the manner in which we interpret the law, the customs of the people, their national identity and our concept of right and wrong are NOT our form of government. It is our culture, heritage and national identity. So, try to figure out what hasn't already been responded to. You might look more intelligent if you do.

 

[Porter Rockwell]

View attachment 300796

Those quotes are about as worthless as tits on a boar hog since there is no verification mechanism (i.e. link; name of the speech, book, etc.)

You're wasting bandwidth.

The quotes show how our founders felt about a Christian nation

Your quotes do not link to a verifiable source so that it can be verified for accuracy and to make sure you are quoting things in context.

Additionally, HAD YOU READ THE THREAD, I pointed out that people say many different things in the course of their lives so what was going on at a specific time and in what context is relevant.

Another point I have not made is that sometimes politicians tell the people one thing and cast their vote in Congress (or in the Constitutional Convention) another way. I look at the final product. The final product is that America has a system of jurisprudence based on Christian laws and that our values derive from the Bible. As a personal note: I'm like Patrick Henry. I did not like the final product and his predictions were proven accurate. But, like Patrick Henry, I accepted the Constitution as originally written and intended. Nobody asked so I gave you that one for free.

Google is your friend


We are no more a Christian nation than we are a white male nation

And yet the blacks disagree with you every day. How's that? You are afraid to access the links and participate in the conversation and too dumb to understand this subject. Your criticisms are the result of ignorance and laziness.

 

[Porter Rockwell]

AMERICA WAS FOUNDED AS A CHRISTIAN NATION

This the EPILOGUE of the relevant posts # 1 , 2, 7, 17, 35, 39, 56, 91, 109 153, and 198 and 223:

America was founded as a Christian nation. To the atheists, non-believers, trolls, and dishonest people criticizing this, NONE of them had the courage to cite any fact presented and challenge it. They refused to even READ the relevant posts, so they live in their own little world.

Benjamin Franklin once said, "Man will ultimately be governed by God or by tyrants."

America was founded as a Christian nation. Does that mean it was founded as a theocracy? No. Does it mean it was required to be a Christian to be here? No. Do you have to believe in Christianity? No. So, what does it mean?

America was founded on the twin pillars of race and religion. Whites founded the country. Founded it means that they established the form of government and wrote the rules when it began. The country was founded on Christianity. That means that our sense of right and wrong; good and bad were predicated upon biblical precepts.

Only Christians could hold elective office. Children were taught from Christian books. Our laws were consistent with the same standards of right and wrong as in the Bible. Even small things were consistent with the Bible. Our system of a just weights and measurements is consistent with the Bible. We have twelve people on a jury in commemoration of the Lord's supper. Our understanding of Liberty was consistent with the biblical definition.

Despite all the facts presented, the best the critics can do is that "separation of church and state" thing that appeared in a letter to the Danbury Baptists and it means 180 degrees opposite of what the atheists claim (went into depth on that one in one of my relevant posts on this thread.)

About six months after the ratification of the United States Constitution, Congress fulfilled their duty to pass an uniform Rule of Naturalization. They specified that only whites could be citizens. MILLIONS of non-whites came here anyway. They took advantage of opportunities willingly offered. THERE IS NOT ONE SINGLE, SOLITARY, EXAMPLE OF OUR LAW TRYING TO CHANGE THOSE PEOPLE INTO CAUCASIANS. Likewise, we do not try and convert people to Christianity. Believe, don't believe... it's up to you.

When people come to America, if they are judged in our courts, it will be according to our culture. And our sense of right and wrong is based on the Bible. If we attempted to interpret our laws to be consistent with Sharia Law, atheism, Hinduism, humanism, Christianity, etc. it would be a giant (excuse the bluntness) one big clusterphuck. Ultimately man is ruled by God or by tyrants.

Those who hate Christianity wanted to take down Nativity scenes, remove the Ten Commandments from public display, and get rid of crosses,and eliminate the Pledge of Allegiance. Why? It was a reflection of who we are and those who waged that war, at all other times, claim to be about democracy - aka majority rule.

Those who hate Christianity have gone out of their way to maintain a lie. They tell us there is a wall of separation between church and state. But, if the Christian does not bow down to majoritarians, they can expect their church to be padlocked; their tax exempt status revoked. Yet our society is supposed to be tolerant of the atheist, the Muslim and anyone else with an ax to grind. The Muslim can wear their headgear in public; the Christian cannot wear their cross. Respecting the Muslim shows our tolerance and commitment to Religious Freedom while any displays of Christianity violates the separation of church and state.

The objective of the atheist and other non-believer is that they want control. Secular humanism is our unofficial state religion now and its implementation has been disastrous for this country. In 1947 the United States Supreme Court created that "separation of church and state out of thin air in the case of Everson v. Board of Education. I know of one source that measured the impact that decision on our country's culture:

The Supreme Court's Decisions on the Separation of Church and State Are Flawed | Encyclopedia.com
Due to the trolls - the Disclaimer - My views do not reflect all the positions taken by this one man. On the issue in question, he has researched a sufficient number of facts.

I'd like to say a lot more here, but over the last 75 years, the atheists and other non-believers have hijacked the Republic and we are not a Christian nation, but a reflection of what atheists, humanists and other non-Christians have instituted. We consume over 80 percent of the world's opioid supply; we have more people in prison than any nation on this planet - both in raw numbers and per capita. More of our children are diagnosed with phony emotional and psychological disorders than any other country (and IF such a disparate number of those conditions exist, it is attributable to the humanist / secularist control the atheists lobbied for - otherwise the rise would be world wide) Murder, rape, incest, pedophilia, burglary, infanticide, robbery, genocide, and other crimes and outrages have soared out of control since Christians acquiesced to the demands of these people.

There is much more I wanted to say, but if you read the relevant posts, you already know what is wrong in America and why our culture was founded on Christian precepts. The atheists don't want to discuss it; they only want control, but on this thread I am not giving it to them. So, I will only repeat the relevant posts each day. Thank you and God bless.

 

[rightwinger]

View attachment 300796

Those quotes are about as worthless as tits on a boar hog since there is no verification mechanism (i.e. link; name of the speech, book, etc.)

You're wasting bandwidth.

The quotes show how our founders felt about a Christian nation

Your quotes do not link to a verifiable source so that it can be verified for accuracy and to make sure you are quoting things in context.

Additionally, HAD YOU READ THE THREAD, I pointed out that people say many different things in the course of their lives so what was going on at a specific time and in what context is relevant.

Another point I have not made is that sometimes politicians tell the people one thing and cast their vote in Congress (or in the Constitutional Convention) another way. I look at the final product. The final product is that America has a system of jurisprudence based on Christian laws and that our values derive from the Bible. As a personal note: I'm like Patrick Henry. I did not like the final product and his predictions were proven accurate. But, like Patrick Henry, I accepted the Constitution as originally written and intended. Nobody asked so I gave you that one for free.

Google is your friend


We are no more a Christian nation than we are a white male nation

And yet the blacks disagree with you every day. How's that? You are afraid to access the links and participate in the conversation and too dumb to understand this subject. Your criticisms are the result of ignorance and laziness.

How do blacks disagree with me?

What does that have to do with a secular nation?

 

[Porter Rockwell]

CHRISTIAN AMERICA VERSUS SECULAR AMERICA

Part 1 of more to come IF the atheists are confident enough to wait and debate this aspect.

I was asked what the differences were between A Christian nation and the current system we have (which, through mostly United States Supreme Court decisions is a secular Federal Legislative Democracy owned and controlled by multinational corporations.

From the outset of our Republic, it was under attack. The Illuminati had begun developing their globalist agenda. From 1715 to about the time the Constitution was ratified, we had the period known as The Enlightenment. Things had not gone so well for the framers as they were divided between the Federalists and anti - Federalists when they debated the Constitution's ratification.

Under the Articles of Confederation, the United States was marginally united; near financial ruin by 1787. The major voice of the Federalists was James Madison along with Alexander Hamilton and the man who was the heart and soul of the Anti-Federalists was Patrick Henry.

Though the Federalists prevailed, the Anti-Federalists (of which Thomas Jefferson sided with) got a consolation prize: the addition of the Bill of Rights. During the Constitutional Convention Patrick Henry addressed the delegates:

"Twenty-three years ago was I supposed a traitor to my country," he said. "I may be thought suspicious when I say our privileges and rights are in danger...But, sir, suspicion is a virtue, as long as its object is the preservation of the public good."

Henry suspected that at least some of those behind the Constitution had an ulterior motive. "When the American spirit was in its youth...liberty...was then the primary object," he said. "But now...the American spirit...is about to convert this country Unit() a powerful and mighty empire....There will be no checks, no real balances, in this government."

Patrick Henry Smells a Rat | AMERICAN HERITAGE

Patrick Henry complained that he smelled a rat, but ended up embracing the Constitution as it was the best they could get (or so George Washington told Henry.)

So, here we are, 231 years later, our Constitution in ruins, the people divided, Liberty mocked and ridiculed and we have a debate upon what principles the Republic rests. The liberals like to claim that the leaders of The Enlightenment were the only people the framers relied on in creating the Constitution. They invoke names like C. L. J. de S. Montesquieu, D. Hume, and Adam Smith and J.-J. Rousseau. And, actually, truth be told, none of those guys were against Christianity; they simply thought one religion was as good as another (which is irrelevant to the Constitution.) The reality is:

"In a now-famous study published in the American Political Science Review on the influence of European writers on the political literature of the founding, Donald S. Lutz reported that the Bible was cited more frequently than any European writer or even any European school of thought. The Bible, he found, accounted for approximately one-third of the citations in the literature he surveyed. The book of Deuteronomy alone was the most frequently cited work, followed by Montesquieu’s The Spirit of the Laws, the most cited secular source. In fact, Deuteronomy was referenced nearly twice as often as Locke’s writings, and the Apostle Paul was mentioned about as frequently as Montesquieu."

The Bible in the Political Culture of the American Founding – SHEAR

I could do hundreds of examples of exactly how many of the framers felt, but one of the people who said it so unequivocally was when John Adams wrote a letter to Thomas Jefferson on June 28, 1813 and said

“The general principles on which the fathers achieved independence were the general principles of Christianity. I will avow that I then believed, and now believe, that those general principles of Christianity are as eternal and immutable as the existence and attributes of God.”

I will have to finish this in parts as it looks like this will be lengthy if the subject is to covered so thorough that the atheists cannot refute i

 

[NotfooledbyW]

23883662(01)

Again, even those you think of as "enlightened" were not antithetical to Christianity

23883662(01)

I agree and have posted that agreement. One of my points from the start has been that mainstream Christians that held the common belief in the Divinity of Christ etc have been antithetical to those who were enlightened by the enlightenment. That goes back to the Catholic Church banning Montesquieu’s book which enlightened the world about the ideas of separation of powers, protections against tyranny, freedom of religion etc.

Therefore I find it impossible to accept any notion that we must declare or even agree that America was founded as a Christian nation by dismissing Enlightenment principles as if they evolved because Christianity from the lowest common believers to the highest priest or Christian Monarch.

23883662(01)

From another poster in post #308:

Go back and read your reply. You bring up common law etc. ....nothing to do with my point about enlightenment.

What’s going on here? What’s your response to my two paragraphs copied above?

23883662(01)

Our common law is based upon Christianity.

I don’t dispute whether our common law is based on Christianity. see above My point in this argument is that the founding of the nation was more influenced by the Enlightenment than by the number of Christians who were worshiping Jesus and hoping to be saved by the blood that he shed on Calvary a couple thousand years or so ago.

You need to explain why I must accept your unintelligible mandate that the head count of actual god fearing Christians residing in the Thirteen Colonies at the time is reason enough for me to agree that for some unknown reason we all need to accept as fact - that America was founded as a Christian nation.

Of course Common Law would be common where Christians work and live. Common Law existed prior to our Constitution and exists to this day. The Constitution was designed and written by students of Locke and Montesquieu and Aristotle during a brief moment in time.

You want is to dismiss all names involved except Jesus of Nazareth.

that ain’t right. It just isn’t.

 

[Bezukhov]

Slavery was a Christian institution

"Slavery was practiced in every ancient Middle Eastern society: Egyptian, Babylonian, Greek, Roman and Israelite. Slavery was an integral part of ancient commerce, taxation, and temple religion..."

Christian views on slavery - Wikipedia

but abolition still had its roots in the Christian church.

Slavery was a Christian institution

"Slavery was practiced in every ancient Middle Eastern society: Egyptian, Babylonian, Greek, Roman and Israelite. Slavery was an integral part of ancient commerce, taxation, and temple religion..."

Christian views on slavery - Wikipedia

but abolition still had its roots in the Christian church.

Slavery was a Christian institution

"Slavery was practiced in every ancient Middle Eastern society: Egyptian, Babylonian, Greek, Roman and Israelite. Slavery was an integral part of ancient commerce, taxation, and temple religion..."

Christian views on slavery - Wikipedia

but abolition still had its roots in the Christian church.

The poster's concern blames Christians for starting slavery. I was pointing out that there is no validity to that statement.

Of course not
Anyone who has read the Bible knows about Moses freeing the slaves of Egypt.

But when God gave Moses the Ten Commandments, not one of them said slavery was a sin

Slavery isn't a sin. Furthermore, those who make much ado about it usually belong in the camp with Democrats who, historically, perpetuate slavery as they do now. Adding insult to injury, the liberals generally employ some form of slavery as a solution to most of their problems.

Slavery is not the issue for liberals. It's only that in the instant case they don't like the hue of skin of the person they blame for their plight - while letting others off the hook for benefiting off it.

Of course slavery isn't a sin. Seeing people whipped, beaten and forced to work in the fields gives Jesus a hard on from here to Uranus.

 

[Porter Rockwell]

CHRISTIAN AMERICA VERSUS SECULAR AMERICA

Part 2 of more to come regardless of how many trolls try to prevent this.

See post # 317 to get the first part of this subject:

Critics continue to want to focus on parts of this which we've already touched on. They can read the thread. If you want to know the differences between a Christian Nation and a Secular Nation, the first place to look is at how our system works. Under our de jure / legal / constitutional Republic we had three branches of government. They were the Legislative, Judicial, and Executive and their powers were pretty much held in check until the passing of all the remaining founders and framers.

Once a law is passed the Legislative branch it goes to the president who signs the legislation into law. The courts then interpret the law. Once the United States Supreme Court weighs in and rules on what the law means, that was supposed to be the law. That is not how it ended up working out. That might have been the rat that Patrick Henry thought he smelled. Regardless of whether a framer was Federalist or Anti-Federalist, they realized the danger of not following that principle. Thomas Jefferson said this:

"On every question of construction carry ourselves back to the time when the Constitution was adopted, recollect the spirit manifested in the debates and instead of trying what meaning may be squeezed out of the text or invented against it, conform to the probable one in which it was passed." --Thomas Jefferson to William Johnson, 1823.

Now, we get past this incessant back and forth B.S. about what founder / framer said what and get down to what we ended up with. And we ended up with the courts interpreting the law in accordance with the common law which is tied to Anglo - Saxon jurisprudence - which in turn, has its roots in Christianity.

Once the United States Supreme Court rules on a question regarding the Constitution, that is the law unless / until the Constitution is legally amended. When we allow the high Court to reinterpret their own decisions, it is not only one giant clusterph^(k , but it makes it impossible for you to know what is legal or illegal since the law can change on a whim. Stare decisis / precedent means let the decision stand. So, in order to know what the law REALLY means, the rightful way is to go to the FIRST time the United States Supreme Court rules on an issue and that is the legitimate ruling on the law. Now we can proceed to build our case:

"There is no dissonance in these declarations. There is a universal language pervading them all, having one meaning. They affirm and reaffirm that this is a religious nation. These are not individual sayings, declarations of private persons. They are organic utterances. They speak the voice of the entire people. While because of a general recognition of this truth the question has seldom been presented to the courts, yet we find that in Updegraph v. Comm., 11 Serg. & R. 394, 400, it was decided that, "Christianity, general Christianity, is, and always has been, a part of the common law of Pennsylvania; * * * not Christianity with an established church and tithes and spiritual courts, but Christianity with liberty of conscience to all men.

..If we pass beyond these matters to a view of American life, as expressed by its laws, its business, its customs, and its society, we find everywhere a clear recognition of the same truth. Among other matters note the following: The form of oath universally prevailing, concluding with an appeal to the Almighty; the custom of opening sessions of all deliberative bodies and most conventions with prayer; the prefatory words of all wills, "In the name of God, amen;" the laws respecting the observance of the Sabbath, with the general cessation of all secular business, and the closing of courts, legislatures, and other similar public assemblies on that day; the churches and church organizations which abound in every city, town, and hamlet; the multitude of charitable organizations existing everywhere under Christian auspices; the gigantic missionary associations, with general support, and aiming to establish Christian missions in every quarter of the globe. These and many other matters which might be noticed, add a volume of unofficial declarations to the mass of organic utterances that this is a Christian nation.."

HOLY TRINITY CHURCH v. U.S. 143 U.S. 457, 12 S.Ct. 511, 36 L.Ed. 226
Feb. 29, 1892

Holy Trinity Church v. U.S. (1892)

You can read the entire Court ruling and see, exactly what is meant by a Christian Nation. It is NOT about a theorcacy; it's not about forced religion; it's not even a mandate for you to be compelled to do anything you find objectionable.

I will finish this train of thought in my next posting on this aspect