Attention all Catholic haters

[KevinWestern]

Denomination is a man made term. I don't use it because it's so theologically imprecise. I might say "what is your faith tradition", which is to say, what is your worship tradition.

The church you hate (henceforth known as the "catholic" church) was handed down to us from the disciples and their disciples. The liturgy they use is a direct descendant of the Jewish liturgy of daily prayer with some modifications. (I mean, after all, Jesus himself was a Jew!). If I am asked who I believe when it comes to authentic Christianity, I am more inclined to believe the guys who were there (Clement being one of them) than I am some pothead on a messageboard.

Clement, if you can find a post where I said “I hate the Catholic Church” or even implied something so strong as that, please quote me. You won’t be able to find that however, so don’t look too hard for it. That's an unfair statement by you.

Many faith traditions have come from the one holy catholic and apostolic church: Anglicanism, Calvinism, Lutheranism, and the branches that came from those, Wesleyism, Baptism, etc.

What is your viewpoint on folks who practice other traditions of Christianity? Do you believe God views all Christians equally, or will they have a difficult time getting into heaven? I realize no one can “speak for God”, however just asking for your opinion.

The church has no walls, no boundaries, no limits, it stretches from ancient times to today and into the future, the saints from Paul's day are no different from the ones in our own day. Asking one of the saints to pray for us is no different from you asking me to pray for you. I am a contemporary saint, Joseph (for example) is a departed saint.

If you really don't believe in an afterlife, this could be a problem for you.

I do believe in the afterlife, however I have more of a “circular” view on the whole ordeal. Although I do believe we have a purpose in this life – which is to learn, grow, and become more unselfish, loving beings – I don’t believe that we are “judged” by a stand-alone God after one go at life to gain access through "the pearly gates".

Instead, I believe that “God” is not separate from you or I, and that reaching “heaven” is more or less just a being becoming “enlightened” and breaking the cycle of reincarnation on this lower spiritual plane we experience here on earth (very similar to how Jesus ascended after he perished). To be honest, I think my belief is very similar to yours, but just a bit less rigid in that I don’t think we’re REQUIRED to go to church, or do these traditions, etc, to reach the highest of spiritual heights (however, if it works for someone then I say “go for it&#8221.

In summary, I feel like religious structures have good intentions, but can have a sort of a silo-effect. What if some Buddhist teachings, or Islamic teachings could also have a positive impact on your spiritual life? Why close yourself off? I like to take pieces from everywhere to build my own personal set of "truths".

But as I mentioned I think you and I both believe in a form of a “one God”, and that the “true purpose” of life is to be a good person – loving and unselfish. I think that's common ground. I may not take communion, or confess my sins to a priest, but are you and I really all that different???


.

 

[hangover]

Priests that spend $42 million on their lavish dwellings.

Wait there a second [MENTION=47835]Clement[/MENTION] - I thought you said there were no rewards for a male priest who makes his way up in the Catholic Church?

Is this figure incorrect?

Ask hangoverto prove it.

Here ya go....
Uproar After German Catholic Bishop Spends $42 Million on Lavish Residence; to Answer to Pope Francis...
Uproar After German Catholic Bishop Spends $42 Million on Lavish Residence; to Answer to Pope Francis

 

[Lonestar_logic]

Nope, she said arguing with idiots is like playing chess with a pigeon; no matter how well you play the pigeon is going to knock over the pieces, crap on the board and strut around like he’s victorious.

When you fail to support your claim, you lose.

You shut the conversation down when you posted this:

He will reply with an ambiguous verse.
That's what I expect.

If you hadn't posted that I would have gotten the verses for you, but as it is I know bloody well that nothing I could offer would ever be enough for you. I only have so many ticks on the clock and I don't have time to waste trying to open a closed mind, I am much better employed answering sincere seekers.

So quit strutting around as if you are victorious.

I didn't post that you moron!

Your concession stands.

 

[Clement]

When you fail to support your claim, you lose.

You shut the conversation down when you posted this:

He will reply with an ambiguous verse.
That's what I expect.

If you hadn't posted that I would have gotten the verses for you, but as it is I know bloody well that nothing I could offer would ever be enough for you. I only have so many ticks on the clock and I don't have time to waste trying to open a closed mind, I am much better employed answering sincere seekers.

So quit strutting around as if you are victorious.

I didn't post that you moron!

Your concession stands.

Yes, you did - moron.

 

[Clement]

Denomination is a man made term. I don't use it because it's so theologically imprecise. I might say "what is your faith tradition", which is to say, what is your worship tradition.

The church you hate (henceforth known as the "catholic" church) was handed down to us from the disciples and their disciples. The liturgy they use is a direct descendant of the Jewish liturgy of daily prayer with some modifications. (I mean, after all, Jesus himself was a Jew!). If I am asked who I believe when it comes to authentic Christianity, I am more inclined to believe the guys who were there (Clement being one of them) than I am some pothead on a messageboard.

Clement, if you can find a post where I said “I hate the Catholic Church” or even implied something so strong as that, please quote me. You won’t be able to find that however, so don’t look too hard for it. That's an unfair statement by you.

Many faith traditions have come from the one holy catholic and apostolic church: Anglicanism, Calvinism, Lutheranism, and the branches that came from those, Wesleyism, Baptism, etc.

What is your viewpoint on folks who practice other traditions of Christianity? Do you believe God views all Christians equally, or will they have a difficult time getting into heaven? I realize no one can “speak for God”, however just asking for your opinion.

The church has no walls, no boundaries, no limits, it stretches from ancient times to today and into the future, the saints from Paul's day are no different from the ones in our own day. Asking one of the saints to pray for us is no different from you asking me to pray for you. I am a contemporary saint, Joseph (for example) is a departed saint.

If you really don't believe in an afterlife, this could be a problem for you.

I do believe in the afterlife, however I have more of a “circular” view on the whole ordeal. Although I do believe we have a purpose in this life – which is to learn, grow, and become more unselfish, loving beings – I don’t believe that we are “judged” by a stand-alone God after one go at life to gain access through "the pearly gates".

Instead, I believe that “God” is not separate from you or I, and that reaching “heaven” is more or less just a being becoming “enlightened” and breaking the cycle of reincarnation on this lower spiritual plane we experience here on earth (very similar to how Jesus ascended after he perished). To be honest, I think my belief is very similar to yours, but just a bit less rigid in that I don’t think we’re REQUIRED to go to church, or do these traditions, etc, to reach the highest of spiritual heights (however, if it works for someone then I say “go for it”).

In summary, I feel like religious structures have good intentions, but can have a sort of a silo-effect. What if some Buddhist teachings, or Islamic teachings could also have a positive impact on your spiritual life? Why close yourself off? I like to take pieces from everywhere to build my own personal set of "truths".

But as I mentioned I think you and I both believe in a form of a “one God”, and that the “true purpose” of life is to be a good person – loving and unselfish. I think that's common ground. I may not take communion, or confess my sins to a priest, but are you and I really all that different???


.

Really? What God is it that you believe in? Is it the Buddhist god? Gautama Buddah didn't even believe in a god himself.

There's something I need to tell you about myself: I once dropped Protestantism like a bad habit (too many unanswered questions) and practiced native American spirituality, and ultimately left it for one reason: there is no power in it. I know, there are people who believe there is, and I have no intention of arguing with them about it. So I have been around the horn, or did you think you were talking to a cradle catholic?

On the so called "silo effect", I have been personally been involved in ecumenical movements only to be told by outsiders that those were silos as well.

So you have to make that charge stick, and I don't think you can, unless you are talking about one of the cults or some place in appalachia.

I stand in judgment of no man's religion, what I oppose is the known heresies some people choose to adopt and call them "Christianity" - Mormonism and Jehovah's Witnesses, for example, along with the roll your own religion people in place like this espouse.

Then there's crap like the Eucharist allegedly being a "pagan" practice.

But if you are a Baptist, a Lutheran, or a Methodist, you'll get no lip from me, unless you start badmouthing the other Christians.

 

[Clement]

How very unbecoming a man of such distinguished pretentions.


Not very surprising though, that you would start a thread asking "what's the beef" with the Catholic church saying, "Give me your theological reasons. REAL theological reasons, not made up theology." and then when many theological reasons are given by myself and many others, you try to hide in some hole in the wall like the pretentious coward that you are when the truth revealed by those REAL theological arguments comes to light.

The problem is that you don't have any theological reasons, you have made up superstition and twisted logic. History is not on your side, neither is the Bible. You have posted nothing of substance and when asked to do so you have deferred.

Whether you are catholic or not you worship a false triune god, teach others to set aside the laws of God and commit idolatry by worshiping a man which amounts to murder. You desecrate the teachings of Jesus and perjure yourself in the name of God.

I asked you to prove it and you can't. All you have is hot air and rage.

You claimed the church is one church and has been since the beginning. I showed you how that was not true by referring to the letters in revelation sent to the first seven churches which reveal that they were anything but one to which you replied, blah, blah, blah.

I love it when unlettered men such as yourself try to proclaim the mysteries in Revelation. It always comes off as superstitious claptrap.

...you can deny the truth all you like, but if you can't fool me, how do you expect to fool the Judge who is presiding over these proceedings?

Guess what, Hobgoblin, you are already the fool. The judge you speak of has already chosen me to proclaim the Gospel, not you. I think you need to lay off the Jack Chick tracts and learn something. I am not asking you to think like me, I am simply asking you to think.

 

[MrMax]

The pope needs to repent for treating women and gays so badly. And for STILL letting pedophile priests get off Scott free.

 

[Clement]

The pope needs to repent for treating women and gays so badly. And for STILL letting pedophile priests get off Scott free.

Mr Max needs to repent from libel.

 

[MrMax]

The pope needs to repent for treating women and gays so badly. And for STILL letting pedophile priests get off Scott free.

Mr Max needs to repent from libel.

He needs to get his shit together on the condom issue. Like the world isn't overpopulated as it is and women's emancipation passes through education and fewer children.

What is libellous about my statement? The Catholic church treats women as second class citizens and gays, well, aside from priests, are all going to hell. And the pope refused to have pedophile priests turned over to the police.

 

[Lonestar_logic]

You shut the conversation down when you posted this:



If you hadn't posted that I would have gotten the verses for you, but as it is I know bloody well that nothing I could offer would ever be enough for you. I only have so many ticks on the clock and I don't have time to waste trying to open a closed mind, I am much better employed answering sincere seekers.

So quit strutting around as if you are victorious.

I didn't post that you moron!

Your concession stands.

Yes, you did - moron.

No I didn't you lying piece of shit.

Go back to post 162 and read what Nutz wrote and how I responded.

You cowards will find any excuse to dodge a direct challenge.

Your concession stands and now the entire board can see what a dishonest puke you are.

 

[KevinWestern]

Really? What God is it that you believe in? Is it the Buddhist god? Gautama Buddah didn't even believe in a god himself.

I think that statement is both true and untrue. Buddha taught “oneness” and that the entire universe was this giant thing, and that we are all connected to it. That “giant” thing may not be called “God” by Buddhists but that is basically what it is. They also believe in ascension to higher spiritual planes once you become “enlightened”. Is this not unlike the story of Jesus? I think it’s all very similar; just different interpretations of the same thing.

There's something I need to tell you about myself: I once dropped Protestantism like a bad habit (too many unanswered questions) and practiced native American spirituality, and ultimately left it for one reason: there is no power in it. I know, there are people who believe there is, and I have no intention of arguing with them about it. So I have been around the horn, or did you think you were talking to a cradle catholic?

No, I wasn’t making any assumptions about you.

On the so called "silo effect", I have been personally been involved in ecumenical movements only to be told by outsiders that those were silos as well.

Let me re-explain what I mean by silo. None of us know everything (obviously), and I think each of us are constantly evolving spiritually. Sometimes a new “truth” or experience will prompt you to look at the world in a different way, and when you have such strict rules, regulations, and traditions (such as with the Catholic Church), one might be unable or restricted from applying these new “truths” into their daily life.

For example, what if a Catholic priest reads a really insightful, helpful passage from the Koran, would he be able to freely share this with his parishioners? No, that is a “restricted” activity. That’s what I mean by the silo-effect.

I stand in judgment of no man's religion, what I oppose is the known heresies some people choose to adopt and call them "Christianity" - Mormonism and Jehovah's Witnesses, for example, along with the roll your own religion people in place like this espouse.

I’m not affiliated with either religion, however who is to say that they’re wrong and you’re right? Who’s to say that everything they preach is harmful? Why is it all or nothing? Isn’t it possible they have some valuable insights to share?

Then there's crap like the Eucharist allegedly being a "pagan" practice.

Who cares if it is or isn’t. The most important thing that Jesus taught was to “love each other”. All other practices and traditions that stem from Christianity (or before) are secondary in my opinion.

 

[hobelim]

How very unbecoming a man of such distinguished pretentions.


Not very surprising though, that you would start a thread asking "what's the beef" with the Catholic church saying, "Give me your theological reasons. REAL theological reasons, not made up theology." and then when many theological reasons are given by myself and many others, you try to hide in some hole in the wall like the pretentious coward that you are when the truth revealed by those REAL theological arguments comes to light.

The problem is that you don't have any theological reasons, you have made up superstition and twisted logic. History is not on your side, neither is the Bible. You have posted nothing of substance and when asked to do so you have deferred.

Whether you are catholic or not you worship a false triune god, teach others to set aside the laws of God and commit idolatry by worshiping a man which amounts to murder. You desecrate the teachings of Jesus and perjure yourself in the name of God.

I asked you to prove it and you can't. All you have is hot air and rage.

You claimed the church is one church and has been since the beginning. I showed you how that was not true by referring to the letters in revelation sent to the first seven churches which reveal that they were anything but one to which you replied, blah, blah, blah.

I love it when unlettered men such as yourself try to proclaim the mysteries in Revelation. It always comes off as superstitious claptrap.

...you can deny the truth all you like, but if you can't fool me, how do you expect to fool the Judge who is presiding over these proceedings?

Guess what, Hobgoblin, you are already the fool. The judge you speak of has already chosen me to proclaim the Gospel, not you. I think you need to lay off the Jack Chick tracts and learn something. I am not asking you to think like me, I am simply asking you to think.

Hmmm, OK, this is me thinking.

I said that you worship a false triune God, teach others to set aside the laws of God and commit idolatry by worshipping another man. you desecrate the teaching of Jesus by claiming that the eucharist is the body of Christ and perjure yourself in the name of God by claiming to have been chosen to preach the gospel of Jesus.

What proof does anyone need aside from your own professed religious beliefs and devotion to degrading religious practices?

Do you deny that you worship a trinity? Do you deny your own professed belief that Jesus, a man, is a part of a coequal triune god? Do you deny claiming that the lifeless eucharist made by human hands is the body of Christ, the living word from God that became flesh is the source of eternal life? Do you deny desecrating the teaching of Jesus who said the Law will always remain and is in full force by claiming that Mosaic law was made obsolete by Jesus?


Would you like me to hold your hand and take you into any catholic church on any given Sunday so you can see with your own eyes people engaged in a vile and degrading practice of the worship of a false triune god in the form of a lifeless matzo made by human hands that they eat and then crap down the toilet?

Would you like me to post scripture which precludes any possibility that God is a triune entity? Would you like to see where scripture clearly states that idolatry results in death and not eternal life? Would you like to see where Jesus himself effectively eliminates any possibility that he thought of himself as God or claimed to be God?

Consider yourself defrocked dipshit.

One thing that you should think about is that if you were truly dedicated to a love of God and truth and devoted to Jesus you would have shut up long ago if there was even a possibility that you were speaking falsely in Gods name. I have given you many reasons to question whether you have been diverted by satanic lies, however any person steeped in sin as you are is already under the condemnation of God, the death consequent to sin, and is incapable of seeing or hearing anything.

Such is your plight.

Another thing you should think about is that even if you have been blinded by darkness, to everyone else who still have eyes that see and ears that hear your sin will remain as obvious as a white boulder in the middle of a plowed field.

If you have made sinfulness a deliberate choice, you will never repent, never enter the kingdom of Heaven, and all that anyone could do is watch in horror as your eyes rot in their sockets, your tongue rots in your mouth, and your flesh rots exactly where you stand as you slowly disintegrate into nothingness.

 

[hangover]

On the news last night, it was reported that another bishop in Atlanta just spent $2.2 million to have a mansion built for his residence. The faithful give their last dime so the "holy fathers" can be comfortable.

Atlanta archbishop apologizes for $2.2 million residence....
Atlanta archbishop apologizes for $2.2 million residence | Fox News

 

[Lonestar_logic]

On the news last night, it was reported that another bishop in Atlanta just spent $2.2 million to have a mansion built for his residence. The faithful give their last dime so the "holy fathers" can be comfortable.

Atlanta archbishop apologizes for $2.2 million residence....
Atlanta archbishop apologizes for $2.2 million residence | Fox News

You can't take it with you when you go.

 

[Luddly Neddite]

The pope needs to repent for treating women and gays so badly. And for STILL letting pedophile priests get off Scott free.

Mr Max needs to repent from libel.

He needs to get his shit together on the condom issue. Like the world isn't overpopulated as it is and women's emancipation passes through education and fewer children.

What is libellous about my statement? The Catholic church treats women as second class citizens and gays, well, aside from priests, are all going to hell. And the pope refused to have pedophile priests turned over to the police.

Remembering when the pope (last one? one before? they run together ... ) went to Africa and told people not to use condoms. People starving but the damn catholic church only cares about having more catholics.

And, needs to be a lot more than an apology for their treatment of women, gays and still hiding pedophiles. I do remember hearing that it was pope before last whose pre-pope job was keeping track of where pedo-priests had been sent so they didn't accidentally send one back to the place where he had previously been caught.

Any other other huge, for-profit business would not be allowed to get away with openly hiding criminals.

 

[Luddly Neddite]

On the news last night, it was reported that another bishop in Atlanta just spent $2.2 million to have a mansion built for his residence. The faithful give their last dime so the "holy fathers" can be comfortable.

Atlanta archbishop apologizes for $2.2 million residence....
Atlanta archbishop apologizes for $2.2 million residence | Fox News

You can't take it with you when you go.

And its not as though Jesus told his followers to help the less fortunate, feed children, heal the sick - you know, stuff like that.

Much better that these useless jerks live in the lap of luxury while demanding the poor give them even more money.

 

[Lonestar_logic]

On the news last night, it was reported that another bishop in Atlanta just spent $2.2 million to have a mansion built for his residence. The faithful give their last dime so the "holy fathers" can be comfortable.

Atlanta archbishop apologizes for $2.2 million residence....
Atlanta archbishop apologizes for $2.2 million residence | Fox News

You can't take it with you when you go.

And its not as though Jesus told his followers to help the less fortunate, feed children, heal the sick - you know, stuff like that.

Much better that these useless jerks live in the lap of luxury while demanding the poor give them even more money.

Matthew 7:1-3

 

[Luddly Neddite]

You can't take it with you when you go.

And its not as though Jesus told his followers to help the less fortunate, feed children, heal the sick - you know, stuff like that.

Much better that these useless jerks live in the lap of luxury while demanding the poor give them even more money.

Matthew 7:1-3

Tell it to your christian buddies who judge everyone on this board and continually pronounce that no one is as good as they are.

Tell it to the pedo-priests and the church who hides them from prosecution.

 

[Lonestar_logic]

And its not as though Jesus told his followers to help the less fortunate, feed children, heal the sick - you know, stuff like that.

Much better that these useless jerks live in the lap of luxury while demanding the poor give them even more money.

Matthew 7:1-3

Tell it to your christian buddies who judge everyone on this board and continually pronounce that no one is as good as they are.

Tell it to the pedo-priests and the church who hides them from prosecution.

We all make judgments every day and we all fall short of the glory of God.

This bishop will judged accordingly by the only one that matters.

 

[Clement]

I didn't post that you moron!

Your concession stands.

Yes, you did - moron.

No I didn't you lying piece of shit.

Go back to post 162 and read what Nutz wrote and how I responded.

You cowards will find any excuse to dodge a direct challenge.

Your concession stands and now the entire board can see what a dishonest puke you are.

You kiss your mother with that mouth, you vile little man?

How could anybody refuse a nice chat with you?