Be grateful JFK got elected in 1960 instead of Nixon

[Euroconservativ]

Nixon could never the get the nomination in today's GOP. You guys would dub him a RINO and run him out of the party.

Reagan too.

And McCain and Romney too

oh wait...

As governor, Reagan raised tax rates multiple times. That is definitely not mainstream Republican today.

And he cut the top federal income tax rate from 70% in 1981 to 28%; which is the root of all evil, according to modern liberals.

Under Reagan, the threshold for paying the top rate went from $200K to $30K (then Bush raised it again). In Germany, right now, the income tax rate for a person earning €50K or more (or a married couple earning €100K) is only 3 points lower than the rate for a person who earns millions: 42% and 45%. German socialists propose (and conservatives reject it) a tax hike to 48% not only on the super wealthy but on anyone earning €100K or more, because that's truly big revenue. The infamous french 75% on millionaires (France has a decent amount of them) has only raised 300 million/year in additional revenue, but demagoguery always attracts voters.

 

[gipper]

"I like to believe that people, in the long run, are going to do more to promote peace than our governments. Indeed, I think that people want peace so much that one of these days governments had better get out of the way and let them have it."

Dwight Eisenhower

I definitely think Ike had his finger on the pulse of America when he said this. I also think the organization he started, People to People International, has been a step toward getting people to want peace. I have traveled with PTPI myself and it is a worthwhile organization.

And yet, Ike said nothing about the JFK coup d'e'tat. He had to suspect the warfare state had something to do with it...particularly after LBJ immediately expanded America's involvement in Vietnam, overturning JFK's intentions to bug out.

While Ike warned of the heinous nature of the military industrial complex and the wars it intended to mire America in, he did little to prevent it. A terrible failure of leadership.

 

[Toro]

Nixon could never the get the nomination in today's GOP. You guys would dub him a RINO and run him out of the party.

Reagan too.

And McCain and Romney too

oh wait...

As governor, Reagan raised tax rates multiple times. That is definitely not mainstream Republican today.

And he cut the top federal income tax rate from 70% in 1981 to 28%; which is the root of all evil, according to modern liberals.

Under Reagan, the threshold for paying the top rate went from $200K to $30K (then Bush raised it again). In Germany, right now, the income tax rate for a person earning €50K or more (or a married couple earning €100K) is only 3 points lower than the rate for a person who earns millions: 42% and 45%. German socialists propose (and conservatives reject it) a tax hike to 48% not only on the super wealthy but on anyone earning €100K or more, because that's truly big revenue. The infamous french 75% on millionaires (France has a decent amount of them) has only raised 300 million/year in additional revenue, but demagoguery always attracts voters.

You miss the point.

A governor who has raised taxes many times would not be nominated for President in today's Republican Party. Reagan as governor of California raised taxes many times. He did not cut them as he did as President. Ergo, he would be called a RINO by today's Small Tent Republicans and have zero chance of winning the nomination.

 

[Katzndogz]

Nixon may have been crooked, but JFK got elected only due to some massive voter fraud. As it was, the election was razor thin.

 

[editec]

This is a good thread. If Nixon had been elected in 60', the "bay of pigs" fiasco may never have happened,

The Bay of Pigs event was in planning before JFK took office. It was an ongoing OP that Kennedy did not (at that time) have the confidence to call off.

FYI, I do not think any POTUS has liked the CIA since its inception. Kennedy very quickly learned NOT to trust those Skull and Bones Yalies once he was in office.

Then *they killed him.

* they = the MASTERS

 

[LA RAM FAN]

This is a good thread. If Nixon had been elected in 60', the "bay of pigs" fiasco may never have happened,

The Bay of Pigs event was in planning before JFK took office. It was an ongoing OP that Kennedy did not (at that time) have the confidence to call off.

FYI, I do not think any POTUS has liked the CIA since its inception. Kennedy very quickly learned NOT to trust those Skull and Bones Yalies once he was in office.

Then *they killed him.

* they = the MASTERS

well said.Yeah Jfk inheirted the bay of pigs invasion from Eisenhower.as i said earlier,the plan they presented to Eisenhower for it was VASTLY different than the one they presented to Kennedy.

Like George Phillips said earlier,had Nixon been elected,they would have gave him air support because the plans was designed to succeed under their boy Nixon whome they thought was going to get elected,but designed to fail under Kennedy so the american people would hopefully think-Hey we got the wrong guy in there.But it didnt work.

 

[LA RAM FAN]

JFK sent us into Vietnam. 57,000 dead Americans and tens of thousands more suffering with PTSD, all for nothing.

amazing how the sheople are truely ignorant.Its documented fact that Eisenhower was the FIRST president that first got america engaged in vietnam, Jfk inherited vietnam from Ike as i have spelled out many times on this thread. Thanks to Ikes policys,vietnam got esculated because the american COMBAT operations in vietnam did not start until AFTER johnson become president.

Matter of fact,I just finished reading a book talking about the administrations of IKE,JFK,LBJ,AND NIXON and they have it documented that it was in "1964" when our first COMBAT troops were deployed.that was under LBj.Jfk only sent in advisors. Johnson got the vietnam war going in full gear with his phony gulf of tonkin incident. Policys that were drawn up by Eisenhower in his final months in office that Jfk resisted but Lbj did not.

Kennedy told his aides when he was sworn in he was shoked when he had a briefing from Eisenhower saying Eisenhower wanted JFK to commit to ground troops to vietnam,a POLICY he was trying to avoid his whole entire time in office.

LBJ and Nixon were the ones to thank for the mass muders of 58,000 men. men who would have not lost their lives had Kennedy been reelected since he was going to pull us out of war by 1965.

 

[LA RAM FAN]

Amazing display of grammatical, as well as historical, ignorance. The "Cuban Missile Crisis" was nothing more than a political Kabuki Dance which gave Khrushchev just what HE wanted (the removal of OUR missiles from Turkey) while allowing JFK to pretend he was a tough guy. NK played JFK just the way Putin is playing Obama on Syria (i.e., guaranteeing the current regime).

Amazing display in historical ignorance on your part alright.JFK INHERITED the cuban missile crisis from Eisenhower.The missile crisis happened because of Eisenhower.

HE was the one that installed those missiles in Turkey in the first place.They were already there when Kenendy took office. Khrschchev begged Ike to get the missiles out of turkey and he would not listen to him.

Thank god for the country that Kennedy got elected otherwise Nixon would have done what the military wanted thanks to Ike putting the missiles there in the first place,he would have bombed cuba like the military brass wanted Jfk to do that he wisely resisted,and Nixon would have started a nuclear war.You just helped prove my point FOR me.

 

[LA RAM FAN]

its funny,i was just talking with someone the other day who was there when JFK made a stop to her hometown as senator campaining for the presidency.she said the thing she liked most about him was how after the bay of pigs disater,he stopped listening to the military during the cuban missile crisis and was really impressed with how he got us out of it.I was impressed to see someone from an older generation that understood that.a lot of them dont.

 

[LA RAM FAN]

Its a well known fact NOW with documents that were released through the freedom of information act in the 90's,that Kennedy drew up a document two months before his assassination that there would be a complete withdrawel of vietnam by all military personal by 1965.

Thus the assassination. People with a huge financial interest in that war were NOT going to let that happen.

amen to that,they were NOT going to let him leave dallas alive.

 

[georgephillip]

So many issues to cover on this thread.

First, even cons know for a fact that Nixon was as crooked as a dogs hind leg. Ford swept it all under the rug with a pardon for his crimes. If he would have had to pay for his crimes, Raygun would never have become POTUS.

Second, if the truth was ever told about the JFK assassination, it would have been revealed that he was killed because he was going to END the Vietnam war, and the industrial military complex was making too much money on that war to let it end.

Third, Vasili Arkhipov, a Soviet submarine officer during the Bay of Pigs, saved the world from nuclear war, by refusing to launch a nuclear bomb. So we all owe our lives to him. Had he launched that nuke, none of us would be here today.
http://http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vasili_Arkhipov

"On 27 October 1962, during the Cuban Missile Crisis, a group of eleven United States Navy destroyers and the aircraft carrier USS Randolph located the diesel-powered nuclear-armed Soviet Foxtrot-class submarine B-59 near Cuba.

"Despite being in international waters, the Americans started dropping practice depth charges, explosives intended to force the submarine to come to the surface for identification.

"There had been no contact from Moscow for a number of days and, although the submarine's crew had earlier been picking up U.S. civilian radio broadcasts, once B-59 began attempting to hide from its U.S. Navy pursuers, it was too deep to monitor any radio traffic, so those on board did not know whether war had broken out.[5]

"The captain of the submarine, Valentin Grigorievitch Savitsky, believing that a war might already have started, wanted to launch a nuclear torpedo.[6]"

Had that torpedo been launched it is worth pondering whether or not this thread would have ever existed. In my case, I was living a few miles from a major USAF base at that time, and I'm pretty sure I would not be around to participate.

Vasili Arkhipov - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[LA RAM FAN]

So many issues to cover on this thread.

First, even cons know for a fact that Nixon was as crooked as a dogs hind leg. Ford swept it all under the rug with a pardon for his crimes. If he would have had to pay for his crimes, Raygun would never have become POTUS.

Second, if the truth was ever told about the JFK assassination, it would have been revealed that he was killed because he was going to END the Vietnam war, and the industrial military complex was making too much money on that war to let it end.

Third, Vasili Arkhipov, a Soviet submarine officer during the Bay of Pigs, saved the world from nuclear war, by refusing to launch a nuclear bomb. So we all owe our lives to him. Had he launched that nuke, none of us would be here today.
http://http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vasili_Arkhipov

"On 27 October 1962, during the Cuban Missile Crisis, a group of eleven United States Navy destroyers and the aircraft carrier USS Randolph located the diesel-powered nuclear-armed Soviet Foxtrot-class submarine B-59 near Cuba.

"Despite being in international waters, the Americans started dropping practice depth charges, explosives intended to force the submarine to come to the surface for identification.

"There had been no contact from Moscow for a number of days and, although the submarine's crew had earlier been picking up U.S. civilian radio broadcasts, once B-59 began attempting to hide from its U.S. Navy pursuers, it was too deep to monitor any radio traffic, so those on board did not know whether war had broken out.[5]

"The captain of the submarine, Valentin Grigorievitch Savitsky, believing that a war might already have started, wanted to launch a nuclear torpedo.[6]"

Had that torpedo been launched it is worth pondering whether or not this thread would have ever existed. In my case, I was living a few miles from a major USAF base at that time, and I'm pretty sure I would not be around to participate.

Vasili Arkhipov - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Good points you both made.However the thing that very few people realise -"you being one of the few exceptions since i know you know this to be true." is had Dick Nixon been elected,he would have gotten us into a nuclear war with the russians.Unlike JFK,he was a yes man for the military brass.proof of that is he extended the war in vietnam after the lying bastard lied to the american people that he was going to end it.

He could have ended it in 69 but he extended it and let it go on another 4 more years.Him and Johnson murdered those 58,00 americans.He gave the military brass the war they wanted in vietnam just like Johnson did and he would have pleased the military brass in 61 as well by bombing cuba just like they wanted kenned to do and were infuriated with him for not doing so.Nixon even said in later years,that had he been president back then,he would have gone in and bombed them.and as immature as he was back then always trting to tell IKE to nuke Laos which Ike wisely did not listen to him on,you can count on it that Nixon wasnt just all talk back then in the late 60's saying he would have gone in and bombed them.

 

[LA RAM FAN]

So many issues to cover on this thread.

First, even cons know for a fact that Nixon was as crooked as a dogs hind leg. Ford swept it all under the rug with a pardon for his crimes. If he would have had to pay for his crimes, Raygun would never have become POTUS.

Second, if the truth was ever told about the JFK assassination, it would have been revealed that he was killed because he was going to END the Vietnam war, and the industrial military complex was making too much money on that war to let it end.

Third, Vasili Arkhipov, a Soviet submarine officer during the Bay of Pigs, saved the world from nuclear war, by refusing to launch a nuclear bomb. So we all owe our lives to him. Had he launched that nuke, none of us would be here today.
http://http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vasili_Arkhipov

"On 27 October 1962, during the Cuban Missile Crisis, a group of eleven United States Navy destroyers and the aircraft carrier USS Randolph located the diesel-powered nuclear-armed Soviet Foxtrot-class submarine B-59 near Cuba.

"Despite being in international waters, the Americans started dropping practice depth charges, explosives intended to force the submarine to come to the surface for identification.

"There had been no contact from Moscow for a number of days and, although the submarine's crew had earlier been picking up U.S. civilian radio broadcasts, once B-59 began attempting to hide from its U.S. Navy pursuers, it was too deep to monitor any radio traffic, so those on board did not know whether war had broken out.[5]

"The captain of the submarine, Valentin Grigorievitch Savitsky, believing that a war might already have started, wanted to launch a nuclear torpedo.[6]"

Had that torpedo been launched it is worth pondering whether or not this thread would have ever existed. In my case, I was living a few miles from a major USAF base at that time, and I'm pretty sure I would not be around to participate.

Vasili Arkhipov - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

yeah that man along with Jfk and Kruschev were instrumental in us avoding the cold war.we couldnt have had 3 better men making the decisions back then for our future of the globe.

 

[TooTall]

JFK sent us into Vietnam. 57,000 dead Americans and tens of thousands more suffering with PTSD, all for nothing.

as usual.you demonstrate and prove your ignorance about american history as well as what really goes on in the country currently.

Like Bendog said,-
Actually, Ike tied us to the corrupt post-colonial govt.

Jfk inherited the vietnam war from Eisenhower fool.The TRUE history of vietnam that you dont hear from our corrupt public schools is in Eisenhowers last year in office,he drew up plans of military esculation for vietnam that was nearly implememted in final year.He was strongly anti communist and a war mongrel hawk.

Jfk was a man of world peace-"which you obviously dont want to see ever happen."

vietnam was on the backburner of his agenda while President with much more pressing needs like the congo,cuba ,berlin and establishing peaceful relations with the russians.

He believed in open diologue with other world leaders.That infuriated the establishment.

He resisted the plans drawn up by Eisenhower in his last year in office for all out war in vietnam that the military urged him to partake in.

Its a well known fact NOW with documents that were released through the freedom of information act in the 90's,that Kennedy drew up a document two months before his assassination that there would be a complete withdrawel of vietnam by all military personal by 1965.

Proof of what his two closest aides Dave Powers and Kenny O'donnel have said over the years,that he told them he would go down as the most unpopular president ever for pulling out of vietnam,but that he had to because he saw it as a lost war.

They said that he told them he could not do it till after the reelection in 64 because he had to look like he had a strong stance on communism.man you have been brainwashed.

Lyndon Johnson got in,and he reversed Kennedys policy just two days later after the assassination esculating the war with the phony gulf of tonkin incident.

He implemened the plans Eisenhower drew up for military esculation with covert wars by the CIA that Jfk resisted from the military brass.

oh and as far as those 57,000 american lives lost? hate to break your heart,but you have those two bastards Johnson and Dick Nixon to thank for that. In an interview with Walter Kronkite in sept 63 when he interviewing Kennedy on the subject of vietnam,at the bottom left hand screen,in bold big numbers,it displays casualtys in vietnam-82

In case you never learned how to count,82 casualtys is a far cry from the 57,000 americans that occured under Johnson and Nixon.

It wasnt the vietcong or the NVA that murdered those 58,000 americans.It was Johnson and Nixon.Many ignorant sheople think that Nixon ended the war.what they arent aware of though obviously is he could easily have ended it in 69 if he had wanted to.But he let the war drag on for another four more years extending the war so he is just as much a mass murderer of those 58,000 americans as Johnson is.

Johnson is even on tape in the white house tapes talking about how Nixon sabotoged his paris peace talks on vietnam to try and end the war that he gave the establishment.

Dick Nixon,lied to the american people runnign a campaine that he would end the war quickly,where instead,he extended the war.

so AGAIN,those 58,000 american lives lost are americans that were murdered by Johnson and Nixon,grow up.






RFK was interesting, and in many ways scary. He also had an ability to communicate with the least fortunate that's really unparralled. It's certainly true that Hoover had him by the balls. All, great leaders have personality traits that include huge failings, and at the very least personality "quirks." That's what I liked most about the movie Hyde Park on the Hudson.

It's interesting to speculate whether the Bay of Pigs disaster would have happened with Nixon. It was a CIA clusterfk, and Ike said very unkind things about the CIA. An interesting book on that a couple of years ago, but I don't recall the name. I gave it a quick read. I really don't think overall there was any difference between Nixon and JFK on communism. But, it's possible Nixon would have been more cautious in loosing the CIA on anything.

And yeah, Nixon embraced a way to liberal economic agenda to fit today's gop. And the gop is moving to isolationism that neither Ike, Nixon nor Reagan would have tolerated.

actually there was a major difference.Nixon had deep ties to the CIA and was willing to give them the extended war in vietnam they wanted,where Jfk was a man of world peace and wanted to establish peaceful relations with the soviets.which is what infuriated the establishment.war means big business and huge profits for corporations hense,why we have the war going on in the middle east.

Unlike the majority of ignorant posters on here who are cluless and ignorant of our american history,YOU seem to know what your talking about and have done your homework.

This is the only part of any of your posts that havent been right on and accurate,everything else you have posted,has been dead on though.

Ike had about 400 military advisors in Vietnam when JFK took office. There were over 16,000 military advisors in the 'nam when JFK was assassinated. Man of peace, not hardly!

 

[TooTall]

Because whether you realise it or not,Dick Nixon would have gotten us into a nuclear war with russia and we would not be here today if he had won.

I hear people say they dont think JFK was that great a president because he alsomt got us into a nuclear war with Russia. Thats true but he also got us out of it and we escaped it because of him.

Thank god we had the disasterous bay of pigs invasion happen because Kenendy learned from that mistake not to listen to the military anymore.

They lied to him about everything they needed to make the invasion into Cuba a succesful invasion.He inherited the bay of pigs invasion from Eisenhower.The plan they presented and was drawn up and presented to Eisenhower was VASTLY different than the one they presented to Kennedy.

Kennedy was told from the very beginning by the CIA that air support was not needed for the invasion to be successful.

During the invasion when it was obviously a disater,Kennedy approached them and said-Hey guys,I know you lied to me about the invasion plans.Tell me the truth this time,do you need air support? they agin lied to him and thats when he made the fatal mistake of saying he would splinter the CIA into a thousand pieces and scatter it to the four winds.

After that experience,he got wise and stopped listening to what the military told him to do and when the next crisis,the cuban missile crisis came,this time he wisely did not listen to them and follow the joint chief of staffs recommendations for an all out bombing and invasion of cuba.

He wisely listentend to the advise of his aides and leaned heavily on Bobby for advise during the crisis.He negoaited with Kruschev not to invade cuba as long as they withdrew their missiles.Kruschev agreed and they turned back away from cuba.

He got us out of it because he wisely listented to the advise of his aides and Bobby instead of the military whos recommendations were to go and bomb them.

Had DICK Nixon won the elction back then and had become president,you can put it in the bank he would have followed the advise of the military and done what they wanted Kennedy to do that he resisted and he WOULD have bombed them.

We know that to be true because in later years he said that had he been president at that time,he would have gone in and bombed them and that would have started world war three.Knowing how extremely immature Nixon was back than at that time,it would be foolhardy not to beliebe he would have done just that.In later years r after 68 became more mature and more wise about things,but at that time,he was the most immature idiot there ever was and you can take it to the bank he was not joking when he said he would have gone in and bombed them.

You also got to remember he was always trying to talk Ike into nuking vietnam which Ike being wise as he was,knew better and wisely ignored and did not listen to him.

Kennedy arbitrarily decided to cancel the only air strike that was in the plan and that led to the slaughter of the invading cubans and their supply ship by Cuban owned MIG's. The orginal plan was to have several UNMARKED WWII B-25's flying out of Venezuala fly in below the radar and bomb the bases where the MIGS were based to deprive them of their Air Force.

Even a fool knows air superiority is the first goal of any invasion.

No military or CIA advisor would have suggested canceling the air strike. It is true that there was no plan for close air support for the invasion force. The defeat of the Cubans trying to take back their country was on JFK's head.

 

[LA RAM FAN]

JFK sent us into Vietnam. 57,000 dead Americans and tens of thousands more suffering with PTSD, all for nothing.

as usual.you demonstrate and prove your ignorance about american history as well as what really goes on in the country currently.

Like Bendog said,-
Actually, Ike tied us to the corrupt post-colonial govt.

Jfk inherited the vietnam war from Eisenhower fool.The TRUE history of vietnam that you dont hear from our corrupt public schools is in Eisenhowers last year in office,he drew up plans of military esculation for vietnam that was nearly implememted in final year.He was strongly anti communist and a war mongrel hawk.

Jfk was a man of world peace-"which you obviously dont want to see ever happen."

vietnam was on the backburner of his agenda while President with much more pressing needs like the congo,cuba ,berlin and establishing peaceful relations with the russians.

He believed in open diologue with other world leaders.That infuriated the establishment.

He resisted the plans drawn up by Eisenhower in his last year in office for all out war in vietnam that the military urged him to partake in.

Its a well known fact NOW with documents that were released through the freedom of information act in the 90's,that Kennedy drew up a document two months before his assassination that there would be a complete withdrawel of vietnam by all military personal by 1965.

Proof of what his two closest aides Dave Powers and Kenny O'donnel have said over the years,that he told them he would go down as the most unpopular president ever for pulling out of vietnam,but that he had to because he saw it as a lost war.

They said that he told them he could not do it till after the reelection in 64 because he had to look like he had a strong stance on communism.man you have been brainwashed.

Lyndon Johnson got in,and he reversed Kennedys policy just two days later after the assassination esculating the war with the phony gulf of tonkin incident.

He implemened the plans Eisenhower drew up for military esculation with covert wars by the CIA that Jfk resisted from the military brass.

oh and as far as those 57,000 american lives lost? hate to break your heart,but you have those two bastards Johnson and Dick Nixon to thank for that. In an interview with Walter Kronkite in sept 63 when he interviewing Kennedy on the subject of vietnam,at the bottom left hand screen,in bold big numbers,it displays casualtys in vietnam-82

In case you never learned how to count,82 casualtys is a far cry from the 57,000 americans that occured under Johnson and Nixon.

It wasnt the vietcong or the NVA that murdered those 58,000 americans.It was Johnson and Nixon.Many ignorant sheople think that Nixon ended the war.what they arent aware of though obviously is he could easily have ended it in 69 if he had wanted to.But he let the war drag on for another four more years extending the war so he is just as much a mass murderer of those 58,000 americans as Johnson is.

Johnson is even on tape in the white house tapes talking about how Nixon sabotoged his paris peace talks on vietnam to try and end the war that he gave the establishment.

Dick Nixon,lied to the american people runnign a campaine that he would end the war quickly,where instead,he extended the war.

so AGAIN,those 58,000 american lives lost are americans that were murdered by Johnson and Nixon,grow up.






RFK was interesting, and in many ways scary. He also had an ability to communicate with the least fortunate that's really unparralled. It's certainly true that Hoover had him by the balls. All, great leaders have personality traits that include huge failings, and at the very least personality "quirks." That's what I liked most about the movie Hyde Park on the Hudson.

It's interesting to speculate whether the Bay of Pigs disaster would have happened with Nixon. It was a CIA clusterfk, and Ike said very unkind things about the CIA. An interesting book on that a couple of years ago, but I don't recall the name. I gave it a quick read. I really don't think overall there was any difference between Nixon and JFK on communism. But, it's possible Nixon would have been more cautious in loosing the CIA on anything.

And yeah, Nixon embraced a way to liberal economic agenda to fit today's gop. And the gop is moving to isolationism that neither Ike, Nixon nor Reagan would have tolerated.

actually there was a major difference.Nixon had deep ties to the CIA and was willing to give them the extended war in vietnam they wanted,where Jfk was a man of world peace and wanted to establish peaceful relations with the soviets.which is what infuriated the establishment.war means big business and huge profits for corporations hense,why we have the war going on in the middle east.

Unlike the majority of ignorant posters on here who are cluless and ignorant of our american history,YOU seem to know what your talking about and have done your homework.

This is the only part of any of your posts that havent been right on and accurate,everything else you have posted,has been dead on though.

Ike had about 400 military advisors in Vietnam when JFK took office. There were over 16,000 military advisors in the 'nam when JFK was assassinated. Man of peace, not hardly!

all you are doing is helping me prove that LBJ was the one that esculated the war. that's the key word there ADVISORS. yes while he increased ADVISORS,which were there to ADVISE him of the situation,he never sent in COMBAT troops.COMBAT troops were never deployed till 1964 when LBJ get in office,you obviously don't remember the chants-hey hey LBJ,HOW MANY KIDS DID YOU KILL TODAY. Ike was a hypocrite,jfk's aides said that after kennedy met with IKE,kennedy was appalled with IKE because IKE was urging him to deploy combat troops,something he had resisted doing the entire time. you really need to read david Kaisers book AMERICAN TRAGEDY,subtitle-eisenhower,kennedy,johnson and the origins of the Vietnam war.

because you are obviously only PARTIALLY familiar with it,his book is based on thosuands of declassified documents from all 3 administrations.

the serious researcher knows that Eisenhower originally got the us military involvement going in Vietnam and his policys in his last year called for an all out covert operations that were nearly implemented,policys calling for combat troops,policys kenendy resisted his entire time in office but LBJ implemented.till you read the book,your just rambling.here it is.
the ADVISORS there were there to train the south Vietnamese how to defend themselves.Love how you keep playing dodgeball ignoring that kennedy signed a document two months before his assassination that called for a complete withdrawal of all military personal by 1965.hee hee.
American Tragedy: Kennedy, Johnson, and the Origins of the Vietnam War by David Kaiser | Barnes & Noble

you want to go tell Kaiser he is wrong,his phone number is listed.

 

[LA RAM FAN]

Because whether you realise it or not,Dick Nixon would have gotten us into a nuclear war with russia and we would not be here today if he had won.

I hear people say they dont think JFK was that great a president because he alsomt got us into a nuclear war with Russia. Thats true but he also got us out of it and we escaped it because of him.

Thank god we had the disasterous bay of pigs invasion happen because Kenendy learned from that mistake not to listen to the military anymore.

They lied to him about everything they needed to make the invasion into Cuba a succesful invasion.He inherited the bay of pigs invasion from Eisenhower.The plan they presented and was drawn up and presented to Eisenhower was VASTLY different than the one they presented to Kennedy.

Kennedy was told from the very beginning by the CIA that air support was not needed for the invasion to be successful.

During the invasion when it was obviously a disater,Kennedy approached them and said-Hey guys,I know you lied to me about the invasion plans.Tell me the truth this time,do you need air support? they agin lied to him and thats when he made the fatal mistake of saying he would splinter the CIA into a thousand pieces and scatter it to the four winds.

After that experience,he got wise and stopped listening to what the military told him to do and when the next crisis,the cuban missile crisis came,this time he wisely did not listen to them and follow the joint chief of staffs recommendations for an all out bombing and invasion of cuba.

He wisely listentend to the advise of his aides and leaned heavily on Bobby for advise during the crisis.He negoaited with Kruschev not to invade cuba as long as they withdrew their missiles.Kruschev agreed and they turned back away from cuba.

He got us out of it because he wisely listented to the advise of his aides and Bobby instead of the military whos recommendations were to go and bomb them.

Had DICK Nixon won the elction back then and had become president,you can put it in the bank he would have followed the advise of the military and done what they wanted Kennedy to do that he resisted and he WOULD have bombed them.

We know that to be true because in later years he said that had he been president at that time,he would have gone in and bombed them and that would have started world war three.Knowing how extremely immature Nixon was back than at that time,it would be foolhardy not to beliebe he would have done just that.In later years r after 68 became more mature and more wise about things,but at that time,he was the most immature idiot there ever was and you can take it to the bank he was not joking when he said he would have gone in and bombed them.

You also got to remember he was always trying to talk Ike into nuking vietnam which Ike being wise as he was,knew better and wisely ignored and did not listen to him.

Kennedy arbitrarily decided to cancel the only air strike that was in the plan and that led to the slaughter of the invading cubans and their supply ship by Cuban owned MIG's. The orginal plan was to have several UNMARKED WWII B-25's flying out of Venezuala fly in below the radar and bomb the bases where the MIGS were based to deprive them of their Air Force.

Even a fool knows air superiority is the first goal of any invasion.

No military or CIA advisor would have suggested canceling the air strike. It is true that there was no plan for close air support for the invasion force. The defeat of the Cubans trying to take back their country was on JFK's head.

as always,you show you only know what the establishment has taught you about this because hate to breeak your heart but it WAS the CIA that DID tell him an air srike was not needed so he cancelled it at the last minute folliwing their advise..AGAIN the CIA and military lied to him about EVERYTHING from the very beginning them telling him they did not need air support when air support was clearly needed for them to win that the plan they presented him was vastly different than the one they presented to IKE which was designed to succeeed. you sure go into these kennedy discussions only seeing what you WANT to see. selectively picking out CERTAIN posts and certain parts of posts instead of the entire thing.

Here,get educated about the bay of pigs invasion.lol.

How Kennedy Rebelled Against the Pentagon and CIA

https://www.tikkun.org/nextgen/jfk-obama-and-the-unspeakable

 

[LA RAM FAN]

Because whether you realise it or not,Dick Nixon would have gotten us into a nuclear war with russia and we would not be here today if he had won.

I hear people say they dont think JFK was that great a president because he alsomt got us into a nuclear war with Russia. Thats true but he also got us out of it and we escaped it because of him.

Thank god we had the disasterous bay of pigs invasion happen because Kenendy learned from that mistake not to listen to the military anymore.

They lied to him about everything they needed to make the invasion into Cuba a succesful invasion.He inherited the bay of pigs invasion from Eisenhower.The plan they presented and was drawn up and presented to Eisenhower was VASTLY different than the one they presented to Kennedy.

Kennedy was told from the very beginning by the CIA that air support was not needed for the invasion to be successful.

During the invasion when it was obviously a disater,Kennedy approached them and said-Hey guys,I know you lied to me about the invasion plans.Tell me the truth this time,do you need air support? they agin lied to him and thats when he made the fatal mistake of saying he would splinter the CIA into a thousand pieces and scatter it to the four winds.

After that experience,he got wise and stopped listening to what the military told him to do and when the next crisis,the cuban missile crisis came,this time he wisely did not listen to them and follow the joint chief of staffs recommendations for an all out bombing and invasion of cuba.

He wisely listentend to the advise of his aides and leaned heavily on Bobby for advise during the crisis.He negoaited with Kruschev not to invade cuba as long as they withdrew their missiles.Kruschev agreed and they turned back away from cuba.

He got us out of it because he wisely listented to the advise of his aides and Bobby instead of the military whos recommendations were to go and bomb them.

Had DICK Nixon won the elction back then and had become president,you can put it in the bank he would have followed the advise of the military and done what they wanted Kennedy to do that he resisted and he WOULD have bombed them.

We know that to be true because in later years he said that had he been president at that time,he would have gone in and bombed them and that would have started world war three.Knowing how extremely immature Nixon was back than at that time,it would be foolhardy not to beliebe he would have done just that.In later years r after 68 became more mature and more wise about things,but at that time,he was the most immature idiot there ever was and you can take it to the bank he was not joking when he said he would have gone in and bombed them.

You also got to remember he was always trying to talk Ike into nuking vietnam which Ike being wise as he was,knew better and wisely ignored and did not listen to him.

Kennedy arbitrarily decided to cancel the only air strike that was in the plan and that led to the slaughter of the invading cubans and their supply ship by Cuban owned MIG's. The orginal plan was to have several UNMARKED WWII B-25's flying out of Venezuala fly in below the radar and bomb the bases where the MIGS were based to deprive them of their Air Force.

Even a fool knows air superiority is the first goal of any invasion.

No military or CIA advisor would have suggested canceling the air strike. It is true that there was no plan for close air support for the invasion force. The defeat of the Cubans trying to take back their country was on JFK's head.

edit out,double post.

 

[TooTall]

as usual.you demonstrate and prove your ignorance about american history as well as what really goes on in the country currently.

Like Bendog said,-
Actually, Ike tied us to the corrupt post-colonial govt.

Jfk inherited the vietnam war from Eisenhower fool.The TRUE history of vietnam that you dont hear from our corrupt public schools is in Eisenhowers last year in office,he drew up plans of military esculation for vietnam that was nearly implememted in final year.He was strongly anti communist and a war mongrel hawk.

Jfk was a man of world peace-"which you obviously dont want to see ever happen."

vietnam was on the backburner of his agenda while President with much more pressing needs like the congo,cuba ,berlin and establishing peaceful relations with the russians.

He believed in open diologue with other world leaders.That infuriated the establishment.

He resisted the plans drawn up by Eisenhower in his last year in office for all out war in vietnam that the military urged him to partake in.

Its a well known fact NOW with documents that were released through the freedom of information act in the 90's,that Kennedy drew up a document two months before his assassination that there would be a complete withdrawel of vietnam by all military personal by 1965.

Proof of what his two closest aides Dave Powers and Kenny O'donnel have said over the years,that he told them he would go down as the most unpopular president ever for pulling out of vietnam,but that he had to because he saw it as a lost war.

They said that he told them he could not do it till after the reelection in 64 because he had to look like he had a strong stance on communism.man you have been brainwashed.

Lyndon Johnson got in,and he reversed Kennedys policy just two days later after the assassination esculating the war with the phony gulf of tonkin incident.

He implemened the plans Eisenhower drew up for military esculation with covert wars by the CIA that Jfk resisted from the military brass.

oh and as far as those 57,000 american lives lost? hate to break your heart,but you have those two bastards Johnson and Dick Nixon to thank for that. In an interview with Walter Kronkite in sept 63 when he interviewing Kennedy on the subject of vietnam,at the bottom left hand screen,in bold big numbers,it displays casualtys in vietnam-82

In case you never learned how to count,82 casualtys is a far cry from the 57,000 americans that occured under Johnson and Nixon.

It wasnt the vietcong or the NVA that murdered those 58,000 americans.It was Johnson and Nixon.Many ignorant sheople think that Nixon ended the war.what they arent aware of though obviously is he could easily have ended it in 69 if he had wanted to.But he let the war drag on for another four more years extending the war so he is just as much a mass murderer of those 58,000 americans as Johnson is.

Johnson is even on tape in the white house tapes talking about how Nixon sabotoged his paris peace talks on vietnam to try and end the war that he gave the establishment.

Dick Nixon,lied to the american people runnign a campaine that he would end the war quickly,where instead,he extended the war.

so AGAIN,those 58,000 american lives lost are americans that were murdered by Johnson and Nixon,grow up.






RFK was interesting, and in many ways scary. He also had an ability to communicate with the least fortunate that's really unparralled. It's certainly true that Hoover had him by the balls. All, great leaders have personality traits that include huge failings, and at the very least personality "quirks." That's what I liked most about the movie Hyde Park on the Hudson.

It's interesting to speculate whether the Bay of Pigs disaster would have happened with Nixon. It was a CIA clusterfk, and Ike said very unkind things about the CIA. An interesting book on that a couple of years ago, but I don't recall the name. I gave it a quick read. I really don't think overall there was any difference between Nixon and JFK on communism. But, it's possible Nixon would have been more cautious in loosing the CIA on anything.

And yeah, Nixon embraced a way to liberal economic agenda to fit today's gop. And the gop is moving to isolationism that neither Ike, Nixon nor Reagan would have tolerated.

actually there was a major difference.Nixon had deep ties to the CIA and was willing to give them the extended war in vietnam they wanted,where Jfk was a man of world peace and wanted to establish peaceful relations with the soviets.which is what infuriated the establishment.war means big business and huge profits for corporations hense,why we have the war going on in the middle east.

Unlike the majority of ignorant posters on here who are cluless and ignorant of our american history,YOU seem to know what your talking about and have done your homework.

This is the only part of any of your posts that havent been right on and accurate,everything else you have posted,has been dead on though.

Ike had about 400 military advisors in Vietnam when JFK took office. There were over 16,000 military advisors in the 'nam when JFK was assassinated. Man of peace, not hardly!

all you are doing is helping me prove that LBJ was the one that esculated the war. that's the key word there ADVISORS. yes while he increased ADVISORS,which were there to ADVISE him of the situation,he never sent in COMBAT troops.COMBAT troops were never deployed till 1964 when LBJ get in office,you obviously don't remember the chants-hey hey LBJ,HOW MANY KIDS DID YOU KILL TODAY. Ike was a hypocrite,jfk's aides said that after kennedy met with IKE,kennedy was appalled with IKE because IKE was urging him to deploy combat troops,something he had resisted doing the entire time. you really need to read david Kaisers book AMERICAN TRAGEDY,subtitle-eisenhower,kennedy,johnson and the origins of the Vietnam war.

because you are obviously only PARTIALLY familiar with it,his book is based on thosuands of declassified documents from all 3 administrations.

the serious researcher knows that Eisenhower originally got the us military involvement going in Vietnam and his policys in his last year called for an all out covert operations that were nearly implemented,policys calling for combat troops,policys kenendy resisted his entire time in office but LBJ implemented.till you read the book,your just rambling.here it is.
the ADVISORS there were there to train the south Vietnamese how to defend themselves.Love how you keep playing dodgeball ignoring that kennedy signed a document two months before his assassination that called for a complete withdrawal of all military personal by 1965.hee hee.
American Tragedy: Kennedy, Johnson, and the Origins of the Vietnam War by David Kaiser | Barnes & Noble

you want to go tell Kaiser he is wrong,his phone number is listed.

I don't want to tell Kaiser anything. He is a conspiracy nutjob or he is a brilliant con man who has made millions from those who believe there is a conspiracy behind every act. All he is doing is rewriting history and making things up and a lot of fools believe his nonsense. Has he written a book on how the Bush Administration engineered the WTC and Pentagon attacks yet? Rest assured he will or already has. I am equally sure that if he or someone else does that you will be the first to accept it as fact instead of fiction.

 

[LA RAM FAN]

Ike had about 400 military advisors in Vietnam when JFK took office. There were over 16,000 military advisors in the 'nam when JFK was assassinated. Man of peace, not hardly!

all you are doing is helping me prove that LBJ was the one that esculated the war. that's the key word there ADVISORS. yes while he increased ADVISORS,which were there to ADVISE him of the situation,he never sent in COMBAT troops.COMBAT troops were never deployed till 1964 when LBJ get in office,you obviously don't remember the chants-hey hey LBJ,HOW MANY KIDS DID YOU KILL TODAY. Ike was a hypocrite,jfk's aides said that after kennedy met with IKE,kennedy was appalled with IKE because IKE was urging him to deploy combat troops,something he had resisted doing the entire time. you really need to read david Kaisers book AMERICAN TRAGEDY,subtitle-eisenhower,kennedy,johnson and the origins of the Vietnam war.

because you are obviously only PARTIALLY familiar with it,his book is based on thosuands of declassified documents from all 3 administrations.

the serious researcher knows that Eisenhower originally got the us military involvement going in Vietnam and his policys in his last year called for an all out covert operations that were nearly implemented,policys calling for combat troops,policys kenendy resisted his entire time in office but LBJ implemented.till you read the book,your just rambling.here it is.
the ADVISORS there were there to train the south Vietnamese how to defend themselves.Love how you keep playing dodgeball ignoring that kennedy signed a document two months before his assassination that called for a complete withdrawal of all military personal by 1965.hee hee.
American Tragedy: Kennedy, Johnson, and the Origins of the Vietnam War by David Kaiser | Barnes & Noble

you want to go tell Kaiser he is wrong,his phone number is listed.

I don't want to tell Kaiser anything. He is a conspiracy nutjob or he is a brilliant con man who has made millions from those who believe there is a conspiracy behind every act. All he is doing is rewriting history and making things up and a lot of fools believe his nonsense. Has he written a book on how the Bush Administration engineered the WTC and Pentagon attacks yet? Rest assured he will or already has. I am equally sure that if he or someone else does that you will be the first to accept it as fact instead of fiction.

what a whining loser,you lost your credibility right there calling Kaiser a conspiracy nutjob. your so much in denial and afraid of the truth you go and call Kaiser a man who is a scholar and teacher at a university,a conspiracy nutjob.comedy gold.

what an idiot.

Your so arrogant and such an idiot who cant face facts,you would be laughed out of debating hall in a minutes notice if you debated the same there you do here,I already posted the document earlier that is there in the national archives in washington dc that kennedy signed at the beginning of oct 63 that called for a complete withdrawal of vietnam by the end of 1965 that Johnson reversed with his document he signed one day later on nov 23rd calling for covert wars on vietnam and the expansion of it.

You cant stand toe to toe in a debate,you whine in defeat calling Kaiser a nutjob when cornered with facts you cant refute.priceless.your such a chickenshit coward,you run away from the challenge to read the book,so typical of cowardly people who can cowardly hide behind the net,run away from the challenge knowing your cornered.

again all you have done is prove my case for me in this entire thread,you should quit while you can before you humiliate yourself any further.

you post that Kennedy increased ADVISORS from 500 tha were there when Eisenhower was there,to 16,000 which is true but you OBVIOUSLY dont know what the difference is between COMBAT TROOPS AND ADVISORS ARE. I just posted the difference and you ignored it as you always ignore points that prove you wrong. COMBAT TROOPS were not deployed till 1964 loser.

even in this PBS video series i have at home that airs the propaganda our corrupt schools have taught us in their propaganda piece,they go on to say that Kenendy got us into vietnam but whats funny about it is even THEY show off what idiots they are because even THEY in the video series,even admit themselves,that Kennedy never deployed combat troops,that he only sent in advisors to help train the south vietnamese how to protect themselves.

oh and if you were a serious researcher which you have proven in spades you are no,that you only see what you WANT to see the fact your too scared to read that book,you would have seen that interview that walter kronkite gave with Kennedy in the middle of sept 63 when he is discussing with Kronkite the vietnam situation,you can see the graphic in the left bottom column that says us casualtys 82. by the time of his assassination 2 months later,20 more had been killed and the final under Kennedy was 102.

thats a far cry from the 58,000 those bastards Johnson and Nixon murdered. not even a thousand occured under Kennedy.just slightly over a hundred.

Lets see,between Nixon and Johnson,about 40,000 of the 58,000 that were killed under those two,around 40,000 happened under Lyydon Johnson with a 102 of them being under kennedy.Yep,Johnson did not reverse kennedys policy on vietnam and kennedy wasnt seeking a peaceful solution to it even though COMBAT TROOPS were never deployed till 1964 and only a 102 casultys occured under Kennedy to Johnsons 40,000.you should start a comedy club.

any serious objective person posting here can see what a joke of a debater you are,how when your cornered and cant refute facts,you engage in name calling calling Kaiser a conspiracy theorists.


NEXT,you need to stick to the sports section,at least there you actullay can make a post where you know something about what your talking about.

my ignore list grows larger.