Biden Admits He Will Raise Taxes

[Hum Dinger]

If you want to get paid by your production of work, find a job with profit sharing. If you can't find one of those, most companies will sell you company stock at a discount and you will be paid by your productivity and that of the company.

Another option is piece work. You get no hourly wage but are paid by how much product you process. Consider sales. Most get a base pay that's relatively small, but your real money comes from how much you sell. The last option is start your own business.

So those are five options to your desire to get paid by productivity. Again, it's all up to you. But remember if you decide to get paid by your productivity, like your company, you will have less income when things get slow. You see as an hourly worker, you don't have to worry about things like that.

Unions did force employers to pay more than they wanted to employees. But in 1980, President Reagan realized the millions of jobs lost because of unions and government. They left the country or invested in automation to replace humans. Outside of government (which uses are tax dollars) unions began to fail and continued to decline to the point there are very few left. Any group of company employees can join a union. See how long your employer stays in the state, country, or closes down.

You can't live in this fantasy world forever. At some point you have to come to the realization that what you make is up to you, not government, not unions. If you want to make more money, you have to make your services worth more paying for.

Many people's services are worth more than what they are paid. You just have a philosophy of an extortionist economy: People only get paid what they can force other people to pay. If they can't force people to pay a fair price for their labor, they are out of luck no matter how valuable their work is.

Your idea on 'Profit Sharing' is a good one! We need a federal law that mandates profit sharing for everyone - not just the select few.

Few employers offer 'Piece work' - and when they do, they pay far less than what the items are worth. Those are some of the worst jobs in the world. Besides, without a national health care program, few people can do that type of work. Which is one of the reasons that conservatives fight against any national healthcare.

Sales can be a great field, but not everyone is suited for sales - it takes a particular talent (mostly being a bullshit artist)

Starting your own business requires huge financial reserves, and credit. In many ways, starting your own business is a big lie - the banks really own your business - you own it in name only. Most small business people start as business idealists, but by the end of the first two years they turn into ogres - and remain that way for the rest of their lives (Which explains you).

Perhaps, the employee/employer relationships should be changed so that everyone is a business partner or independent consultant. No one should be an employee anymore.

 

[LAUGHatLEFTISTS]

I never believed he would. I did not vote for him but I imagine you have no room to talk.

You’re talking in circles.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Many people's services are worth more than what they are paid. You just have a philosophy of an extortionist economy: People only get paid what they can force other people to pay. If they can't force people to pay a fair price for their labor, they are out of luck no matter how valuable their work is.

Your idea on 'Profit Sharing' is a good one! We need a federal law that mandates profit sharing for everyone - not just the select few.

Few employers offer 'Piece work' - and when they do, they pay far less than what the items are worth. Those are some of the worst jobs in the world. Besides, without a national health care program, few people can do that type of work. Which is one of the reasons that conservatives fight against any national healthcare.

Sales can be a great field, but not everyone is suited for sales - it takes a particular talent (mostly being a bullshit artist)

Starting your own business requires huge financial reserves, and credit. In many ways, starting your own business is a big lie - the banks really own your business - you own it in name only. Most small business people start as business idealists, but by the end of the first two years they turn into ogres - and remain that way for the rest of their lives (Which explains you).

Perhaps, the employee/employer relationships should be changed so that everyone is a business partner or independent consultant. No one should be an employee anymore.

Once again, you can live in fantasy world all you like, but you can only play the cards God dealt you. You complained about not getting paid for your production, I gave you five fields of work, and you made an excuse why you couldn't work one of them. So how about one more:

As you know I'm a retired truck driver. There are companies that will let you buy a truck on payments. They will provide the work and all you have to do is make the pickups and deliveries. You don't need to have great credit because the company will guarantee you the loan. You can also take a mileage job and get paid for every mile you drive. It's a career where you're always in demand, you get to see the country, and after you get some experience, you can even go back to work locally which major companies pay between $24.00 and $28.00 an hour plus great benefits. Working for a major company allows you to live in just about any state you want.

As far as starting your own business, you can open up a lawn care company. It's only a few thousand dollars investment and again, you work for yourself. Construction trades are the same way. Learn to be a carpenter, electrician, bricklayer, and after you get enough experience, you can work for yourself. Here the unions are begging their retirees to find people to get into the trade. No experience needed, they will provide the schooling, and you have a career where you can work for yourself or somebody else. Zero investment. You should check out the trades in your area.

 

[pknopp]

You’re talking in circles.

Because you are unable to see beyond the cults.

 

[LAUGHatLEFTISTS]

Because you are unable to see beyond the cults.

If you say so.

 

[Hum Dinger]

Once again, you can live in fantasy world all you like, but you can only play the cards God dealt you. You complained about not getting paid for your production, I gave you five fields of work, and you made an excuse why you couldn't work one of them. So how about one more:

As you know I'm a retired truck driver. There are companies that will let you buy a truck on payments. They will provide the work and all you have to do is make the pickups and deliveries. You don't need to have great credit because the company will guarantee you the loan. You can also take a mileage job and get paid for every mile you drive. It's a career where you're always in demand, you get to see the country, and after you get some experience, you can even go back to work locally which major companies pay between $24.00 and $28.00 an hour plus great benefits. Working for a major company allows you to live in just about any state you want.

As far as starting your own business, you can open up a lawn care company. It's only a few thousand dollars investment and again, you work for yourself. Construction trades are the same way. Learn to be a carpenter, electrician, bricklayer, and after you get enough experience, you can work for yourself. Here the unions are begging their retirees to find people to get into the trade. No experience needed, they will provide the schooling, and you have a career where you can work for yourself or somebody else. Zero investment. You should check out the trades in your area.

First of all, don't think that I'm arguing for my own sake. I'm a very highly paid Systems administrator and network engineer. I have a degree in Electrical Engineering.

Many years ago (back in the 1980s), I lived off a minimum wage job. Later I worked overseas for a government contractor - and got a very low salary, while some fat cats in Fort Lauderdale raked in the millions from my work (at the taxpayers expense).

Not everyone is as fortunate as me. Not everyone is the son of a Wall St. exec that can afford the schools I went to.

The fact is that society "NEEDS ITS DITCH DIGGERS". As a matter of fact, without ditch diggers, we'd all die from horrible diseases. There is no good reason why people who do productive jobs should live in poverty just because they can be replaced by someone more desperate than themselves.

The result of the poverty of unskilled workers is that basic survival dictates that almost everyone must have a college degree. That's resulted in colleges lowering their standards and giving degrees to morons. All it takes to get a higher degree is determination not to work, and a willingness to go into debt.

That in turn results in senior management positions being held by morons with higher degrees - and a complete failure of leadership throughout our economy.

Some people are just better suited to jobs that do not require higher education or job skills. Those people can do very productive work. But as long as those jobs mean a life of poverty, colleges will maintain low standards (to maximize profits), and we'll continue getting morons with college degrees.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

First of all, don't think that I'm arguing for my own sake. I'm a very highly paid Systems administrator and network engineer. I have a degree in Electrical Engineering.

Many years ago (back in the 1980s), I lived off a minimum wage job. Later I worked overseas for a government contractor - and got a very low salary, while some fat cats in Fort Lauderdale raked in the millions from my work (at the taxpayers expense).

Not everyone is as fortunate as me. Not everyone is the son of a Wall St. exec that can afford the schools I went to.

The fact is that society "NEEDS ITS DITCH DIGGERS". As a matter of fact, without ditch diggers, we'd all die from horrible diseases. There is no good reason why people who do productive jobs should live in poverty just because they can be replaced by someone more desperate than themselves.

The result of the poverty of unskilled workers is that basic survival dictates that almost everyone must have a college degree. That's resulted in colleges lowering their standards and giving degrees to morons. All it takes to get a higher degree is determination not to work, and a willingness to go into debt.

That in turn results in senior management positions being held by morons with higher degrees - and a complete failure of leadership throughout our economy.

Some people are just better suited to jobs that do not require higher education or job skills. Those people can do very productive work. But as long as those jobs mean a life of poverty, colleges will maintain low standards (to maximize profits), and we'll continue getting morons with college degrees.

Correct, but once again it boils down to supply and demand.

Speaking of electronics, back in the early 80's I went to electronics school because I was repairing medical equipment. I didn't do much with electronics, but from time to time I'd have to solder a switch into a board or change a board out.

Working full time at a 6 day a week job and going to school at nights got real old real quick, so I asked my teacher what I could make if I got my FCC license (1 year of schooling). He told me 16K a year. Unsatisfied with the answer, I asked what if I stayed 2 years and got my associates degree. He told me 18K a year IF I could find a job. Hell, I was making more at my current job. So I quit the school.

Why so little pay for such a difficult field? After all, electronics is all math. It's because everybody and their mother wanted to be an electronics tech at the time. The market was flooded with unemployed graduates in that field of work.

Same goes for service jobs. They pay little because they are monkey jobs that anybody could do. Much supply and less demand. So like I said, it doesn't matter if you are burger flipper or an architect, you will only get paid as much as what your employer could pay another to do the same job and quality of work that you do.

 

[task0778]

Correct, but once again it boils down to supply and demand.

Speaking of electronics, back in the early 80's I went to electronics school because I was repairing medical equipment. I didn't do much with electronics, but from time to time I'd have to solder a switch into a board or change a board out.

Working full time at a 6 day a week job and going to school at nights got real old real quick, so I asked my teacher what I could make if I got my FCC license (1 year of schooling). He told me 16K a year. Unsatisfied with the answer, I asked what if I stayed 2 years and got my associates degree. He told me 18K a year IF I could find a job. Hell, I was making more at my current job. So I quit the school.

Why so little pay for such a difficult field? After all, electronics is all math. It's because everybody and their mother wanted to be an electronics tech at the time. The market was flooded with unemployed graduates in that field of work.

Same goes for service jobs. They pay little because they are monkey jobs that anybody could do. Much supply and less demand. So like I said, it doesn't matter if you are burger flipper or an architect, you will only get paid as much as what your employer could pay another to do the same job and quality of work that you do.

The Left is constantly trying to shift the responsibility to earn a bigger paycheck onto the employers and/or the gov't, instead of the individual.

 

[Hum Dinger]

Correct, but once again it boils down to supply and demand.

Speaking of electronics, back in the early 80's I went to electronics school because I was repairing medical equipment. I didn't do much with electronics, but from time to time I'd have to solder a switch into a board or change a board out.

Working full time at a 6 day a week job and going to school at nights got real old real quick, so I asked my teacher what I could make if I got my FCC license (1 year of schooling). He told me 16K a year. Unsatisfied with the answer, I asked what if I stayed 2 years and got my associates degree. He told me 18K a year IF I could find a job. Hell, I was making more at my current job. So I quit the school.

Why so little pay for such a difficult field? After all, electronics is all math. It's because everybody and their mother wanted to be an electronics tech at the time. The market was flooded with unemployed graduates in that field of work.

Same goes for service jobs. They pay little because they are monkey jobs that anybody could do. Much supply and less demand. So like I said, it doesn't matter if you are burger flipper or an architect, you will only get paid as much as what your employer could pay another to do the same job and quality of work that you do.

You seem to believe that wages being determined by 'market forces' is somehow written in stone. It is not. Unions have already proven that, the minimum wage has also proven it.

There is no valid reason why people should not get paid in accordance with the value of their work - other than employers taken advantage of economically disadvantaged people. Under paying employees is fundamentally immoral.

BTW - the real reason that the wages for people in the electronics industry went down is that it became cheaper to replace entire circuit boards or even the entire unit than to have a tech troubleshoot and fix it. Also, circuit board were increasingly made from surface mount circuit elements which were too tiny to work on and replace. (Note: I HATE SURFACE MOUNT CIRCUIT ELEMENTS!)

 

[task0778]

Many people's services are worth more than what they are paid. You just have a philosophy of an extortionist economy: People only get paid what they can force other people to pay. If they can't force people to pay a fair price for their labor, they are out of luck no matter how valuable their work is.

Bullshit, they can go find another job. Most of the time, the employer knows very well what an employee is worth and will pay that person more tokeep them rather than hire somebody and train them.

Few employers offer 'Piece work' - and when they do, they pay far less than what the items are worth. Those are some of the worst jobs in the world. Besides, without a national health care program, few people can do that type of work. Which is one of the reasons that conservatives fight against any national healthcare.

Conservatives fight against national healthcare because it's too God Damned expensive. They lie like hell when they tell people we can pay for NH by only taxing the rich and big corps, that is just not true.

Sales can be a great field, but not everyone is suited for sales - it takes a particular talent (mostly being a bullshit artist)

Speaking of democrats ...

Most small business people start as business idealists, but by the end of the first two years they turn into ogres - and remain that way for the rest of their lives

Wow, quite the attitude. These people bust ass to create a business and keep it running, while lazy cowards like you demand a salary that is more than you are worth and without assuming any of the risks and worries. FY.

Perhaps, the employee/employer relationships should be changed so that everyone is a business partner or independent consultant. No one should be an employee anymore.

Yeah sure, all you gotta do is kick in the money to pay for your piece of the business and then start putting in all the hours that management does. And accept the fact that the business may fail and you won't get your money back. Sound good?

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

You seem to believe that wages being determined by 'market forces' is somehow written in stone. It is not. Unions have already proven that, the minimum wage has also proven it.

There is no valid reason why people should not get paid in accordance with the value of their work - other than employers taken advantage of economically disadvantaged people. Under paying employees is fundamentally immoral.

BTW - the real reason that the wages for people in the electronics industry went down is that it became cheaper to replace entire circuit boards or even the entire unit than to have a tech troubleshoot and fix it. Also, circuit board were increasingly made from surface mount circuit elements which were too tiny to work on and replace. (Note: I HATE SURFACE MOUNT CIRCUIT ELEMENTS!)

But the fact remains that there were simply too many people in it which is why it didn't pay anything. In fact after I quit the school, I looked in the want ads. Nothing. Zero, zilch, nadda. About six years later, cable was installed in my suburb. The guy who installed mine was a former classmate. He told me how smart I was to quit and save my money. Installing cable was as close as he could come to a job in electronics.

The left thinks this is some sort of new thing. It's not. It's been going on my entire life. When I got out of school and started working, I worked those minimum wage jobs. I lived with my parents and they allowed me to stay to get on my feet. I could never afford an apartment making minimum wage, and certainly no way to support a family. I had to keep trying until I found better paying work and eventually a career.

Yes, the unions forced companies to overpay their workers. The end result were companies leaving the state or country. Is that what you want to go back to?

 

[Hum Dinger]

But the fact remains that there were simply too many people in it which is why it didn't pay anything. In fact after I quit the school, I looked in the want ads. Nothing. Zero, zilch, nadda. About six years later, cable was installed in my suburb. The guy who installed mine was a former classmate. He told me how smart I was to quit and save my money. Installing cable was as close as he could come to a job in electronics.

The left thinks this is some sort of new thing. It's not. It's been going on my entire life. When I got out of school and started working, I worked those minimum wage jobs. I lived with my parents and they allowed me to stay to get on my feet. I could never afford an apartment making minimum wage, and certainly no way to support a family. I had to keep trying until I found better paying work and eventually a career.

Yes, the unions forced companies to overpay their workers. The end result were companies leaving the state or country. Is that what you want to go back to?

That's weird! We have Unions shops all over Connecticut, New York, Illinois, and New Jersey, to name a few. So your idea that companies leave as soon as workers unionize is bunk.

Liberal Unionized states are economic mammoths as compared to the shithole poverty-stricken red states. (Texas excepted because it sits on a sea of oil).

 

[task0778]

Yes, the unions forced companies to overpay their workers. The end result were companies leaving the state or country. Is that what you want to go back to?

Or they went out of business. Back in the day, like some 50 years ago, I used to work in a small business for a couple of years. then a union came in and talked the employees into voting to unionize; a few years later the business closed cuz they had to raise their prices to cover the addition costs of labor and they weren't competitive anymore. It wasn't that many employees, so the unions didn't care. But the people that worked there did.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Or they went out of business. Back in the day, like some 50 years ago, I used to work in a small business for a couple of years. then a union came in and talked the employees into voting to unionize; a few years later the business closed cuz they had to raise their prices to cover the addition costs of labor and they weren't competitive anymore. It wasn't that many employees, so the unions didn't care. But the people that worked there did.

The last union customer my company had, the employees voted out their own union. They were forced to keep worthless employees employed. When the most worthless one was advanced to the best paying job because of tenure, that's the straw that broke the camels back. He had no ability to do the job, and the owner of the company had to do it for him. He just stood around and watched.

They voted out the union, that senior union member was laid off along with three other employees they were dying to get rid of, and the other employees were never happier.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

That's weird! We have Unions shops all over Connecticut, New York, Illinois, and New Jersey, to name a few. So your idea that companies leave as soon as workers unionize is bunk.

Liberal Unionized states are economic mammoths as compared to the shithole poverty-stricken red states. (Texas excepted because it sits on a sea of oil).

That's not what happened in our purple state. Outside of government and auto plants, you'd be hell pressed to find a union company around here.

It's not that I don't believe you. After all during the non-global warming months, I spend a lot of time watching HGTV. I'm shocked at the prices of homes in the states you mentioned. For what you pay 900K for in California, you can get the same home here for 350K with more land. The cost of living in these states is astronomical compared to our red or purple states. It's been reported that a ton of businesses as well as citizens are leaving such states, New York being the top one.

But let's say you came here and opened up a widget company. Your employees are paid well because of the union. I too open up a widget company and pay employees for what I can get away paying them. Who are you going to sell your widgets to? Customers can buy two of my widgets for the price of one of yours. Now what are you going to do? You're going to have to close up.

 

[Hum Dinger]

That's not what happened in our purple state. Outside of government and auto plants, you'd be hell pressed to find a union company around here.

It's not that I don't believe you. After all during the non-global warming months, I spend a lot of time watching HGTV. I'm shocked at the prices of homes in the states you mentioned. For what you pay 900K for in California, you can get the same home here for 350K with more land. The cost of living in these states is astronomical compared to our red or purple states. It's been reported that a ton of businesses as well as citizens are leaving such states, New York being the top one.

But let's say you came here and opened up a widget company. Your employees are paid well because of the union. I too open up a widget company and pay employees for what I can get away paying them. Who are you going to sell your widgets to? Customers can buy two of my widgets for the price of one of yours. Now what are you going to do? You're going to have to close up.

Yet Unions, and the companies that higher Union workers, thrive. So you can theorize all you want, but reality proves otherwise. Government and the Auto industry are probably the ONLY major industries in your state.

The reason why real estate prices are so high in these States is because the economies are doing great and people have the money to pay these prices.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Yet Unions, and the companies that higher Union workers, thrive. So you can theorize all you want, but reality proves otherwise. Government and the Auto industry are probably the ONLY major industries in your state.

The reason why real estate prices are so high in these States is because the economies are doing great and people have the money to pay these prices.

No, it's because things like high taxes and unions inflated the costs in those states. You claim unions are alive and well in your state. What state is that because I'll research it to show you they too are on the decline. You may not have gotten out very much in the last 20 years, but in my line of work, I went to dozens of new companies every single week. Union companies left the state, folded up or left the country.

 

[task0778]

Liberal Unionized states are economic mammoths as compared to the shithole poverty-stricken red states. (Texas excepted because it sits on a sea of oil).

And yet people and businesses are leaving those economic mammoth blue states for red states that have RTW laws. How odd.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

And yet people and businesses are leaving those economic mammoth blue states for red states that have RTW laws. How odd.

If they are selling their products or services outside their areas, I'd like to know who they're selling them to. They can't be competing nationwide or worldwide. They'd never be able to sell anything at a much higher price than their competitors.

 

[otto105]

The CBO has made it perfectly clear taxing only those earning a combined income of $400,000 will not cut it. So apparently the CBO doesn’t know as much as the cabbage patch man.

But it would help a shit ton.