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Paul Hill, Eric Rudolph, Scott Roeder... I would not be so sure of that.
I'm a Christian myself, but these men claim to have killed for God. Some even said it was a necessity and used that as their defense. True, these were abortion doctor murders, but it would not be impossible to perceive of the same happening to someone that was seen as attacking Christians.
I truly hope that never happens, but I don't think it is an impossibility either.
Immie
Valid point. I will point out that most Christians consider those people nuts, while most Muslims think it is perfectly fine to kill anyone who defames Islam. That makes the point a lot less compelling.
TWENTY TWO percent of all humans on Planet Earth are Muslim. When exactly did you poll all of them as to their alleged tolerance for murder, Quantum Windbag?
Can't you see this for what it is?
"All Jews......"
"All Catholics........"
"All Blacks......".
"All women......"
It's HATE. Naked, unadulterated HATE. Sleep with it under your pillow and your grandchildren will wake up in Hell on Earth. How the hell many times must we learn this?
I agree with the middle two paragraphs.
Where I have my issues is that those "real people in the TP" should be vocally shouting down the "few loose cannons", but it does not seem to be the case. At the very least they should be stating that violence and/or racism is unwelcome in their midst.
I will refer you to the issues of the spitting on the congressman and the accusation of the N-word having been shouted out at the Congressional members after the passage of the Health Care Reform bill. Note: I realize you were not here at the time, but I suspect you know what incidents I am talking about. I don't believe the person deliberately spit on the congressman and I don't know for sure that the N-Word was used or who said it or why, but at the very least, those "real people" in the TP, should have been extremely vocal (much like Madeline is here) that if it persists they are not going to participate... period.
Another problem I have is the appearance that the TP is really just an arm of the Republican Party. I've yet to see the TP put a Republican (all of whom are just as guilty as the Democrats in regards to spending) in his/her place.
Immie
I agree there should be more policing of the radicals.
As far as the Spitting and use on the N word, I do believe there is Currently a 100,000.00 reward out for anyone who can prove that the use of the N word actually took place, the spitting issue I do believe has already been proven wrong.
I have one friend who is a staunch Democrat at he loves the TP, because much of the ideologies are For America, not just the Republicans.
Again, if anyone has not really been to a meeting and gotten to know more of the facts than the media will tell you, you should try it.
Several Black Colleagues are supporters, it really is not about Racism.
No. I get into my fair share of confrontations though. I cannot abide this kind of evil. Not at all. And I have NEVER supported a candidate that committed this unpardonable sin.
T'aint like there's various ways to "hear" what this man said. He hates Muslims. That's enough for me to want to kick his ass...why aren't YOU angry?
If he had been hating on a group YOU identify with might that have tripped your switch?
As far as I am concerned he is free to have insulting opinions about Jesus and
Moses, and he can express them publicly if he wants. The major difference is that if he limits his opinions to attacks on Christians and Jews no one will kill him for it.
Paul Hill, Eric Rudolph, Scott Roeder... I would not be so sure of that.
I'm a Christian myself, but these men claim to have killed for God. Some even said it was a necessity and used that as their defense. True, these were abortion doctor murders, but it would not be impossible to perceive of the same happening to someone that was seen as attacking Christians.
I truly hope that never happens, but I don't think it is an impossibility either.
Immie
Valid point. I will point out that most Christians consider those people nuts, while most Muslims think it is perfectly fine to kill anyone who defames Islam. That makes the point a lot less compelling.
As for the spitting incident, I believe it happened. I believe it was an accidental occurrence. I've seen the video and I believe the man that was shouting accidentally spit in the Congressman's face. If I were him, I would have immediately apologized.
The N-word? I saw a video and believe I heard the word shouted out, but who shouted it and to whom they were shouting it is in question.
That has not been my problem. My problem was the instant denial that it happened in the first place and the excuses that were made. From the get go, in regards to the N-word, I said we don't know who said it. It could have been a greeting from one black man to another that was picked up or it could have been what many said it was a racial slur used against the Congressman.
My problem is that those in the TP, simply shrugged it off. At the very least I felt they should have been denouncing it rather than claiming it didn't happen. They could not have seen everything or heard everything. To simply say it didn't happen cost them credibility in my book. If they had said, "I didn't hear that word spoken while I was there, but if it was, it had no place in our group", I would have understood.
I have not been to a Tea Party event. I don't even know when or if there has been one in the Tampa Bay Area. I'm certain there must have been, but I don't know when. I have grown very anti-political party over the last few years. If it speaks of either the Democratic Party or the Republican Party I want nothing at all to do with it. As I said earlier, what I have seen says that it is an arm of the Republican Party, thus, I'm simply... well, very skeptical to say the least.
Immie
Paul Hill, Eric Rudolph, Scott Roeder... I would not be so sure of that.
I'm a Christian myself, but these men claim to have killed for God. Some even said it was a necessity and used that as their defense. True, these were abortion doctor murders, but it would not be impossible to perceive of the same happening to someone that was seen as attacking Christians.
I truly hope that never happens, but I don't think it is an impossibility either.
Immie
Valid point. I will point out that most Christians consider those people nuts, while most Muslims think it is perfectly fine to kill anyone who defames Islam. That makes the point a lot less compelling.
Good point about Christians.
As for the point about Muslims, I hate to generalize, although I am guilty myself at times, and don't know enough Muslims to state unequivocally that "most Muslims think it is perfectly fine to kill anyone who defames Islam". It might be easy to point at the Middle East and all the problems that exist there and say that it is proof of what you say, but there are I believe over a billion Muslims in this world, to state that most of them believe that is a very broad brush, IMHO.
Immie
As for the spitting incident, I believe it happened. I believe it was an accidental occurrence. I've seen the video and I believe the man that was shouting accidentally spit in the Congressman's face. If I were him, I would have immediately apologized.
The N-word? I saw a video and believe I heard the word shouted out, but who shouted it and to whom they were shouting it is in question.
That has not been my problem. My problem was the instant denial that it happened in the first place and the excuses that were made. From the get go, in regards to the N-word, I said we don't know who said it. It could have been a greeting from one black man to another that was picked up or it could have been what many said it was a racial slur used against the Congressman.
My problem is that those in the TP, simply shrugged it off. At the very least I felt they should have been denouncing it rather than claiming it didn't happen. They could not have seen everything or heard everything. To simply say it didn't happen cost them credibility in my book. If they had said, "I didn't hear that word spoken while I was there, but if it was, it had no place in our group", I would have understood.
I have not been to a Tea Party event. I don't even know when or if there has been one in the Tampa Bay Area. I'm certain there must have been, but I don't know when. I have grown very anti-political party over the last few years. If it speaks of either the Democratic Party or the Republican Party I want nothing at all to do with it. As I said earlier, what I have seen says that it is an arm of the Republican Party, thus, I'm simply... well, very skeptical to say the least.
Immie
Instant denial? What world do you live in?
The event was not described as one person maybe saying the word, it was described as occurring at least 15 times, and was reported as conclusive fact by every news agency within minutes. Quite a few of them now admit that no evidence exists which corroborates that version of the story, and regret that they did not do even a cursory fact check before reporting the story. More than one have assigned reporters to look more closely at the incident, and so far no one has produced any real evidence. This despite the offer of a $100,000 reward for proof. If you say the tape you surely saw Jesse Jackson Jr' walking through that crowd with 2 cell phones to record what happened.
All the Tea Party has said is that they were there, and they did not here the slurs, and challenged anyone to produce proof. As this was an obvious attempt to discredit the Tea Party by provoking a racial incident I think that the fact that no one has produced any video is pretty telling. Yet you want to believe that the Tea Party is racist on the basis of an incident that is based on the word of provocateurs.
How on Earth do you Tea Baggers expect to ever attract moderates or people like me, who are fiscally conservative but who have ZERO tolerance for hate speech, when your appointed leader runs his mouth claiming that Muslims worship a "Monkey God"?
You want folks like me or you don't. You're all about the money or you're a bunch of racist hoodlums.
Make up your minds, and if you are NOT racists, then kick this Mark Williams — a radio talk show host and the chairman of the Tea Party Express -- to the freaking curb. Because as they say, folks:
"Lips that touch (this sort of fucking hate speech) wine will never touch mine."
Which is it? Hate or money? Pick one and be done with it; I'm sick and tired of all the blithering back and forth from you folks.
Valid point. I will point out that most Christians consider those people nuts, while most Muslims think it is perfectly fine to kill anyone who defames Islam. That makes the point a lot less compelling.
Good point about Christians.
As for the point about Muslims, I hate to generalize, although I am guilty myself at times, and don't know enough Muslims to state unequivocally that "most Muslims think it is perfectly fine to kill anyone who defames Islam". It might be easy to point at the Middle East and all the problems that exist there and say that it is proof of what you say, but there are I believe over a billion Muslims in this world, to state that most of them believe that is a very broad brush, IMHO.
Immie
Quite true. I could be completely off base, but I do know that those who speak up are a very small minority. That needs to change, and until it does I will continue to be comfortable with that broad brush.
As for the spitting incident, I believe it happened. I believe it was an accidental occurrence. I've seen the video and I believe the man that was shouting accidentally spit in the Congressman's face. If I were him, I would have immediately apologized.
The N-word? I saw a video and believe I heard the word shouted out, but who shouted it and to whom they were shouting it is in question.
That has not been my problem. My problem was the instant denial that it happened in the first place and the excuses that were made. From the get go, in regards to the N-word, I said we don't know who said it. It could have been a greeting from one black man to another that was picked up or it could have been what many said it was a racial slur used against the Congressman.
My problem is that those in the TP, simply shrugged it off. At the very least I felt they should have been denouncing it rather than claiming it didn't happen. They could not have seen everything or heard everything. To simply say it didn't happen cost them credibility in my book. If they had said, "I didn't hear that word spoken while I was there, but if it was, it had no place in our group", I would have understood.
I have not been to a Tea Party event. I don't even know when or if there has been one in the Tampa Bay Area. I'm certain there must have been, but I don't know when. I have grown very anti-political party over the last few years. If it speaks of either the Democratic Party or the Republican Party I want nothing at all to do with it. As I said earlier, what I have seen says that it is an arm of the Republican Party, thus, I'm simply... well, very skeptical to say the least.
Immie
Instant denial? What world do you live in?
The event was not described as one person maybe saying the word, it was described as occurring at least 15 times, and was reported as conclusive fact by every news agency within minutes. Quite a few of them now admit that no evidence exists which corroborates that version of the story, and regret that they did not do even a cursory fact check before reporting the story. More than one have assigned reporters to look more closely at the incident, and so far no one has produced any real evidence. This despite the offer of a $100,000 reward for proof. If you say the tape you surely saw Jesse Jackson Jr' walking through that crowd with 2 cell phones to record what happened.
All the Tea Party has said is that they were there, and they did not here the slurs, and challenged anyone to produce proof. As this was an obvious attempt to discredit the Tea Party by provoking a racial incident I think that the fact that no one has produced any video is pretty telling. Yet you want to believe that the Tea Party is racist on the basis of an incident that is based on the word of provocateurs.
You are right, the first reports, I saw here on this site claimed that it was chanted. Then the reports came out that it was shouted one time less than 24 hours later, if I am not mistaken. Then the denials started. I believe it was our very own TruthMatters that started at least five threads about the chanting incident.
I'm only giving you my perception of the movement. What I have heard from the movement is basically denials that it happened at all. I can understand the denial of the chanting. The videos I have seen show no such evidence. But there is one video presented by TM that I believe the word can be heard shouted one time.
My contention is merely that as an outsider, I see the near silence on the issue (and I will expand this a little bit if you don't mind to include the racial signs that they have been accused of carrying) as being an acceptance of those signs and the slurs. In regards to the signs, I will say that I don't know that any of the signs I have seen pictures of here on this site actually came from TP events although the indication is that they did... that point is skeptical, to say the least.
But, let me see if I can simplify what I am trying to say here. The allegations in the media are that there are racial undertones in the movement. Can you deny that "fact"? If there are those allegations out there, then I as an outsider want to know before I become involved in such a movement, that the movement itself denounces any form or racism in its midst. The silence bugs me.
If those "real people" as Gremlin called them accept the racial undertones that have infiltrated their movement, then I don't want to be a part of the group. I may agree in principle with many of the things they state as being their desires, but I don't feel comfortable around people that spread hatred.
Immie
Dale Robertson, a self-described tea party activist who was basically drummed out of the movement over holding a quasi=racist sign, has signed up with the Washington Times as a contributor to its tea party blog.
Good point about Christians.
As for the point about Muslims, I hate to generalize, although I am guilty myself at times, and don't know enough Muslims to state unequivocally that "most Muslims think it is perfectly fine to kill anyone who defames Islam". It might be easy to point at the Middle East and all the problems that exist there and say that it is proof of what you say, but there are I believe over a billion Muslims in this world, to state that most of them believe that is a very broad brush, IMHO.
Immie
Quite true. I could be completely off base, but I do know that those who speak up are a very small minority. That needs to change, and until it does I will continue to be comfortable with that broad brush.
Hahaha,
My feelings exactly about the TP movement!
So, you understand me after all!
Ragnar wrote:
"Tea bagger" is hate speech.
On what Planet? You guys picked the name. It was all rah-rah-rah Boston Tea Party until you found out that "tea bagging" is a gay sexual technique.
Not my fault nobody among you thought to google.
but you can judge a whole movement if NOBODY in that movement disagreed with the so-called "misquote"
If someone in the TP has not yet denounced his poor choice of words, they should!!!
but you can judge a whole movement if NOBODY in that movement disagreed with the so-called "misquote"
If someone in the TP has not yet denounced his poor choice of words, they should!!!
is that all it is to you? a poor choice of words? it truly reflects how the man feels. he would have voted against the civil rights act.
and then defending bp..at a time when the southern gulf coast is going under due to bp...who defends the people losing their jobs and livelyhoods...no one it does seem
seems this grass roots teaparty has proved everyone's worst fears....
bigots....defending big business...remind me again...how this is a change from the other two parties?
You want folks like me or you don't.
Gremlin-USA, if the Tea Baggers are not about racism then you guys need to throw racists OUT. You cannot hang with haters and claim that hate is not a value or goal of the group at large. Might not be one of yours, or of your friends, but it is staining the entire movement.
Embrace the hate or reject it. That's not a fence-sitting, navel-pondering sort of thing IMO. And if you decide "there's room enough for haters" under the Tea Bag umbrella, just know...that means there is NO room for folks like me.
What use is a nation that is fiscally sound but tolerates hatred? Isn't that precisely the hierarchy of values that facism was about?
Madeline, you mentioned you are not with any Party. No offense, but I can see why.
Think about it, there are Racists and Bigots in Every Party, shoot, there are probably some at the grocery store you shop at, your work, are you going to be a hermit because there are still stupid people in this world?
No. I get into my fair share of confrontations though. I cannot abide this kind of evil. Not at all. And I have NEVER supported a candidate that committed this unpardonable sin.
T'aint like there's various ways to "hear" what this man said. He hates Muslims. That's enough for me to want to kick his ass...why aren't YOU angry?
If he had been hating on a group YOU identify with might that have tripped your switch?
As far as I am concerned he is free to have insulting opinions about Jesus and
Moses, and he can express them publicly if he wants. The major difference is that if he limits his opinions to attacks on Christians and Jews no one will kill him for it.
In my view, if all your friends are assholes, you are shit. I'm judging you by the hatred you tolerate and I find you Tea Baggers reprehensible un-American bullshit artists and I am done contemplating EVER joining you.
I'd ruther we bankrupt ourselves than become a nation of haters. Been there, done that, got the tee shirt.
NO THANKS.
As far as I am concerned he is free to have insulting opinions about Jesus and
Moses, and he can express them publicly if he wants. The major difference is that if he limits his opinions to attacks on Christians and Jews no one will kill him for it.
In my view, if all your friends are assholes, you are shit. I'm judging you by the hatred you tolerate and I find you Tea Baggers reprehensible un-American bullshit artists and I am done contemplating EVER joining you.
I'd ruther we bankrupt ourselves than become a nation of haters. Been there, done that, got the tee shirt.
NO THANKS.
LOL, and I suppose you would consider this post a love letter to all those "HATERS" who don't even know who this person is, but yet that makes us alllllllllllll, like him.
good grief..
In my view, if all your friends are assholes, you are shit. I'm judging you by the hatred you tolerate and I find you Tea Baggers reprehensible un-American bullshit artists and I am done contemplating EVER joining you.
I'd ruther we bankrupt ourselves than become a nation of haters. Been there, done that, got the tee shirt.
NO THANKS.
LOL, and I suppose you would consider this post a love letter to all those "HATERS" who don't even know who this person is, but yet that makes us alllllllllllll, like him.
good grief..
I know you are intellectually deficient....
hence your conservative leanings....
but TRY to understand this.....
if a guy gives a speech to tea baggers
and in that speech there is OBVIOUS lies and hate
and the audience of tea baggers
hearing the lies and the hate
all CHEER and CLAP and say..."YES! WE AGREE!"
then
my ignorant little moron
it is quite easy to ASSUME that they are all likeminded
