HenryBHough
Diamond Member
So from Chicago political thugs you expect something other than Chicago thuggery?
Gimme a break!
Gimme a break!
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You know what I find amusing, Care? You keep saying we need to find out what happened and then we can move forward when it's obvious that people in power at the IRS are quite determined that we DON'T find out what happened!
You excuse the hard drive crashes of the Head of the Exempt Organizations Division...the Chief of Staff for the IRS Commissioner...the IRS National Media Relations Chief...(all of which took place in Washington) and then four of the agents working in Exempt Organizations Division in Cincinnati as some sort of bizarre coincidence.
Wait.....you're insinuating some conspiracy because Congress found hard drive crashes 'only' among those they're investing?u know what I find amusing, Care? You keep saying we need to find out what happened and then we can move forward when it's obvious that people in power at the IRS are quite determined that we DON'T find out what happened!
You excuse the hard drive crashes of the Head of the Exempt Organizations Division...the Chief of Staff for the IRS Commissioner...the IRS National Media Relations Chief...(all of which took place in Washington) and then four of the agents working in Exempt Organizations Division in Cincinnati as some sort of bizarre coincidence.
Notice Congress had nothing to say on the rate of hard drive crashes in the Sacramento, California IRS offices. Or those in Oklahoma City. Or those in Tampa Florida, or Provo Utah? Why? Because they didn't subpoena the email records or examine hard drive crashes in any of those offices. So of course the hard drive crashes they're going to know about are going to be limited to those divisions they've looked into.
Your insinuations make as much sense as going to 5 rooms in a 2000 room hotel and declaring its an implausible coincidence that they found fresh bedding ONLY in those 5 rooms. Um, fella....they only checked those 5 rooms.
If you have evidence that the rate of hard drive crashes was significantly higher than the rest of the IRS, show us. But you can't. You can only insinuate an argument you can't possibly back up. Which is essentially the entirety of the conservative argument on the IRS 'scandal'. Steaming piles of baseless insinuation, backed by jack shyte as far as evidence.
We're in year 3 of the investigation. And there's not even evidence of political motivation. Let alone a 'crime'. Not even Issa and the republican congressional investigation are claiming that Lerner caused her hard drive crash. And every piece of evidence indicates that they made every effort to retrieve the information lost on it. So what, exactly, are you insinuating?
Surely nothing the evidence supports. So far, your 'evidence' is that you have zero proof! Talk about an argument without corners.
In fact, they retrieved about 24,000 emails from other sources. And guess what? There wasn't a fucking thing indicating Lerner was part of the conspiracy your ilk are insinuating. She's turned over a total of 64,000 emails. And guess what? Nothing there either. Nothing in any of the emails from any of the Cincinnati office folks, nothing in the folks from Washington. Nothing from anyone in the IRS they've investigated.
You'd think after years of fruitless investigations, the stunning lack of evidence to back the tin foil batshyte from Issa and his ilk would be an enormously obvious indication that the conspiracy was wrong. But nope!
Isn't it funny that the longer this farce of an 'investigation' goes on and the less republicans find to back up their baseless narrative.....the more elaborate their excuses for their utter failure of their conspiracy become? Don't you think that's just a little bizarre?
You know what I find amusing, Care? You keep saying we need to find out what happened and then we can move forward when it's obvious that people in power at the IRS are quite determined that we DON'T find out what happened!
You excuse the hard drive crashes of the Head of the Exempt Organizations Division...the Chief of Staff for the IRS Commissioner...the IRS National Media Relations Chief...(all of which took place in Washington) and then four of the agents working in Exempt Organizations Division in Cincinnati as some sort of bizarre coincidence.
Wait.....you're insinuating some conspiracy because Congress found hard drive crashes 'only' among those they're investing?u know what I find amusing, Care? You keep saying we need to find out what happened and then we can move forward when it's obvious that people in power at the IRS are quite determined that we DON'T find out what happened!
You excuse the hard drive crashes of the Head of the Exempt Organizations Division...the Chief of Staff for the IRS Commissioner...the IRS National Media Relations Chief...(all of which took place in Washington) and then four of the agents working in Exempt Organizations Division in Cincinnati as some sort of bizarre coincidence.
Notice Congress had nothing to say on the rate of hard drive crashes in the Sacramento, California IRS offices. Or those in Oklahoma City. Or those in Tampa Florida, or Provo Utah? Why? Because they didn't subpoena the email records or examine hard drive crashes in any of those offices. So of course the hard drive crashes they're going to know about are going to be limited to those divisions they've looked into.
Your insinuations make as much sense as going to 5 rooms in a 2000 room hotel and declaring its an implausible coincidence that they found fresh bedding ONLY in those 5 rooms. Um, fella....they only checked those 5 rooms.
If you have evidence that the rate of hard drive crashes was significantly higher than the rest of the IRS, show us. But you can't. You can only insinuate an argument you can't possibly back up. Which is essentially the entirety of the conservative argument on the IRS 'scandal'. Steaming piles of baseless insinuation, backed by jack shyte as far as evidence.
We're in year 3 of the investigation. And there's not even evidence of political motivation. Let alone a 'crime'. Not even Issa and the republican congressional investigation are claiming that Lerner caused her hard drive crash. And every piece of evidence indicates that they made every effort to retrieve the information lost on it. So what, exactly, are you insinuating?
Surely nothing the evidence supports. So far, your 'evidence' is that you have zero proof! Talk about an argument without corners.
In fact, they retrieved about 24,000 emails from other sources. And guess what? There wasn't a fucking thing indicating Lerner was part of the conspiracy your ilk are insinuating. She's turned over a total of 64,000 emails. And guess what? Nothing there either. Nothing in any of the emails from any of the Cincinnati office folks, nothing in the folks from Washington. Nothing from anyone in the IRS they've investigated.
You'd think after years of fruitless investigations, the stunning lack of evidence to back the tin foil batshyte from Issa and his ilk would be an enormously obvious indication that the conspiracy was wrong. But nope!
Isn't it funny that the longer this farce of an 'investigation' goes on and the less republicans find to back up their baseless narrative.....the more elaborate their excuses for their utter failure of their conspiracy become? Don't you think that's just a little bizarre?
You obviously have not worked for a corporation or a big beauracracy...you follow the office guidelines that your management sets....of course your management is responsible for setting the office guidelines within the corporation's or bureaucracy's guidelines and the employees presume the office rules are correctly fitting in to the bureau's guidelines....it's not up to the employees to determine that their management guidelines do or do not technically fit the head corporation's guidelines....
If you want to hold these 7 responsible for their Director's guidelines for their office that were established, then you have to hold every single employee there responsible....you are punishing the people not responsible for the office's rules that were set before they were even hired. That's just common sense that they, the employees, would not be responsible for what rules, their management sets.
And if everyone in the office managed their emails in the same manner, then there is NOTHING suspicious about what these people have done with their emails.*
but we don't even know if this is what has happened....we just need to find out, and then move forward from there.
The rules are clear, these people violated them. You are making flimsy excuses for people that are under scrutiny for inappropriate actions.
Nonsense.
You and others on the right are pursuing this 'scandal' motivated not by facts, evidence, truth, or the law, but solely by partisanism.
You know what's hilarious? You actually BELIEVE the story about they did everything they could to retrieve the emails.
The truth of the matter is that the emails still existed on the back up tape even if the servers of all those people amazingly crashed at the same time and none of them backed up their data on paper as they were required to do by law.
I back up my computer and if it crashes I immediately start the process of recovering what was lost. I can do that but the IRS can't? That's a bigger joke than anything Leno or Letterman EVER told on late night TV!
You want to make me believe this ISN'T a coverup? Explain how 7 hard drives connected with people at the heart of this issue all crash...explain why none of them have any paper back ups even though it's required by law...explain why none of them retrieved the lost data from the back up tape system which was there specifically in case something like this happened...then take a crack at explaining why the IRS would allow that back up tape to be scrubbed when it knew the information on it had been subpoenaed by Congress...and then explain why the IRS repeatedly assured Congressional investigators that they would be turning over the emails when they knew that they had been destroyed!
You want to make me believe this ISN'T a coverup? Explain how 7 hard drives connected with people at the heart of this issue all crash..
Do you have any evidence that the rate of hard drive crashes among those few that Congress investigated is higher than what normally occurs with the IRS?
Of course not. YOu're insinuating an argument you know can't back up, and have zero evidence to support.
.explain why none of them have any paper back ups even though it's required by law
Because you're talking about hundreds of thousands of pages from lerner alone. Multiply that by every employee at every IRS facility in the country? No one prints out their every email and files it. As the Bush era justice department demonstrated so elegantly when 51 email accounts in the division investigated were simply erased. Completely gone.
Your 'conspiracy' is that the government *still* doesn't record its every missive. With the policy you're lamenting about preceding the IRS 'scandal'. Cause precedes effect. It doesn't follow it by years and an administration.
And lastly.......we're in year 3 of the GOP witch hunt on this issue. And in all that time, they've found exactly dick backing up their batshyte narrative. They, like you, have had their entire argument winnowed down to baseless insinuation of claims they obviously can't back up.
While all the evidence they do have, including 24,000 supposedly 'lost' emails from Lerner, laughably contradict their narrative.
You want to make me believe this ISN'T a coverup? Explain how 7 hard drives connected with people at the heart of this issue all crash..
Do you have any evidence that the rate of hard drive crashes among those few that Congress investigated is higher than what normally occurs with the IRS?
Of course not. YOu're insinuating an argument you know can't back up, and have zero evidence to support.
.explain why none of them have any paper back ups even though it's required by law
Because you're talking about hundreds of thousands of pages from lerner alone. Multiply that by every employee at every IRS facility in the country? No one prints out their every email and files it. As the Bush era justice department demonstrated so elegantly when 51 email accounts in the division investigated were simply erased. Completely gone.
Your 'conspiracy' is that the government *still* doesn't record its every missive. With the policy you're lamenting about preceding the IRS 'scandal'. Cause precedes effect. It doesn't follow it by years and an administration.
And lastly.......we're in year 3 of the GOP witch hunt on this issue. And in all that time, they've found exactly dick backing up their batshyte narrative. They, like you, have had their entire argument winnowed down to baseless insinuation of claims they obviously can't back up.
While all the evidence they do have, including 24,000 supposedly 'lost' emails from Lerner, laughably contradict their narrative.
Sp your argument is that the IRS can't store the paper backups so it doesnt really matter? Seriously?
Wow! All those people, and without 1 drop of evidence....boy, these people must be really really smart....and miracle workers too!How many people do I think are involved? Let's see...Lois Lerner, Steven Miller, Douglas Shulman, John Koskinen, Nikole Flax, Michelle Eldridge, Kimberly Kitchens, Nancy Heagney, Julie Chen, Tyler Chumny, Richard Pilger, & whoever the White House staff member or members were that Nikole Flax had her 30 meetings with before the elections. Throw in whoever the computer tech was that fried the 7 hard drives and you've pretty much got your cast of characters for this cover-up.
There was no Bush Justice Dept scandal.Wow! All those people, and without 1 drop of evidence....boy, these people must be really really smart....and miracle workers too!How many people do I think are involved? Let's see...Lois Lerner, Steven Miller, Douglas Shulman, John Koskinen, Nikole Flax, Michelle Eldridge, Kimberly Kitchens, Nancy Heagney, Julie Chen, Tyler Chumny, Richard Pilger, & whoever the White House staff member or members were that Nikole Flax had her 30 meetings with before the elections. Throw in whoever the computer tech was that fried the 7 hard drives and you've pretty much got your cast of characters for this cover-up.
Did you take all of this 'liberty' with the Bush Justice department scandal and accuse them of criminal actions when all of their emails were missing or Bush when his administrations did not even use the government white house email system for years and used the email system of the RNC when they were working and doing their jobs in the white house? Which supposedly crashed with all of the white house/administration required record information?
You are being lead by the dog and pony guys, and are NOT thinking this through from any angle at all, other than what the dog and pony guys tell you...or the phony Judicial Watch tells you....wake up!
Oh, and how about a link to your assertions on the people you listed as criminals....? what supports your contentions of all of these people being in on some conspiracy, other than what has been conjured up in your head? Give us what ya got...so we can be in on this too...with links if you can....and a timeline that supports it too!
Sp your argument is that the IRS can't store the paper backups so it doesnt really matter? Seriously?
What? these emails were "scrubbed" despite the subpoena....?The reason the emails are "missing" is that 7 hard drives crashed...all 7 of the people those hard drives belonged to failed to back up those emails with paper copies as required by law...none of the data from the 7 crashed computers was retrieved from tape back-ups specifically put in place for that purpose...and then the tape back up that held the "missing" emails was scrubbed despite a Congressional subpoena requesting those emails.
Nah, nothing "suspicious" there!!!
Sp your argument is that the IRS can't store the paper backups so it doesnt really matter? Seriously?
My argument is that virtually no one records every email in paper form in the IRS. Not in lerner's office. Not in the Cincinnatti office. Not in the IRS. Not in the federal government as a whole. Its simply not practiced. Not before the IRS 'scandal'. Not after.
Making the latest in a series of debunked insinuations that the lack of what *no one* does is somehow an indication of conspiracy all the more void of reason or evidence.
Again, we're in year 3. The republican narrative never panned out. Making up brand new baseless batshyte isn't going to magically make a failed narrative somehow viable.
The reason the emails are "missing" is that 7 hard drives crashed...all 7 of the people those hard drives belonged to failed to back up those emails with paper copies as required by law...none of the data from the 7 crashed computers was retrieved from tape back-ups specifically put in place for that purpose...and then the tape back up that held the "missing" emails was scrubbed despite a Congressional subpoena requesting those emails.
Nah, nothing "suspicious" there!!!
oh, poor, poor rabbi, is your memory failing you?There was no Bush Justice Dept scandal.Wow! All those people, and without 1 drop of evidence....boy, these people must be really really smart....and miracle workers too!How many people do I think are involved? Let's see...Lois Lerner, Steven Miller, Douglas Shulman, John Koskinen, Nikole Flax, Michelle Eldridge, Kimberly Kitchens, Nancy Heagney, Julie Chen, Tyler Chumny, Richard Pilger, & whoever the White House staff member or members were that Nikole Flax had her 30 meetings with before the elections. Throw in whoever the computer tech was that fried the 7 hard drives and you've pretty much got your cast of characters for this cover-up.
Did you take all of this 'liberty' with the Bush Justice department scandal and accuse them of criminal actions when all of their emails were missing or Bush when his administrations did not even use the government white house email system for years and used the email system of the RNC when they were working and doing their jobs in the white house? Which supposedly crashed with all of the white house/administration required record information?
You are being lead by the dog and pony guys, and are NOT thinking this through from any angle at all, other than what the dog and pony guys tell you...or the phony Judicial Watch tells you....wake up!
Oh, and how about a link to your assertions on the people you listed as criminals....? what supports your contentions of all of these people being in on some conspiracy, other than what has been conjured up in your head? Give us what ya got...so we can be in on this too...with links if you can....and a timeline that supports it too!
Since you don't have a clue what you're blabbering about, and lie at every turn, why don't you just STFU?
The rules are clear, these people violated them. You are making flimsy excuses for people that are under scrutiny for inappropriate actions.
Nonsense.
You and others on the right are pursuing this 'scandal' motivated not by facts, evidence, truth, or the law, but solely by partisanism.
The Facts are the IRS admitted to targeting.
SHEESH! The IRS admitted to using the easy route, and using the TERMS of Party and Progressive to gather applicants to audit for approval.
THe evidence is someone is covering up the story
There is no story to cover up, and there is no evidence to support a cover up.
The Truth is we have a major scandal of epic proportions
so far there is no scandal of any kind, let alone of epic proportions!
The law was violated repeatedly by the iRS, in failing to recover the hard drives, in giving confidential information to outside groups, in targeting groups based on ideology.
Oh my gosh, you are pretty funny! All Bull Crud. What law was violated by the Irs? If the hard drives were unrecoverable back in 2011, what makes you think the IRS of today, is doing something to keep these hard drives from the congress critters? You make no sense.
That confidential info crap is not involved in this case, and it was a single irs employee who flubbed up by accident wasn't it? Or are you talking about something else, and if you are, could you please provide a link to what you are talking about?
They targeted NO ONE based on ideology, NO ONE....they admitted to targeting applicants with the terms of Party and Progressive and a couple of other terms....
30% of those audited were audited due to the term Progressive....hardly a "conservative ideology"....
they were overwhelmed with applicants for groups that wanted tax exempt status, and picked terms that would help them discern applicants to audit that may be in this for pure political reasons instead of charity as the primary cause.
quite simple to understand
The partisanship comes from those who deny there's anything really to see here.
You want to make me believe this ISN'T a coverup? Explain how 7 hard drives connected with people at the heart of this issue all crash..
Do you have any evidence that the rate of hard drive crashes among those few that Congress investigated is higher than what normally occurs with the IRS?
Of course not. YOu're insinuating an argument you know can't back up, and have zero evidence to support.
.explain why none of them have any paper back ups even though it's required by law
Because you're talking about hundreds of thousands of pages from lerner alone. Multiply that by every employee at every IRS facility in the country? No one prints out their every email and files it. As the Bush era justice department demonstrated so elegantly when 51 email accounts in the division investigated were simply erased. Completely gone.
Your 'conspiracy' is that the government *still* doesn't record its every missive. With the policy you're lamenting about preceding the IRS 'scandal'. Cause precedes effect. It doesn't follow it by years and an administration.
And lastly.......we're in year 3 of the GOP witch hunt on this issue. And in all that time, they've found exactly dick backing up their batshyte narrative. They, like you, have had their entire argument winnowed down to baseless insinuation of claims they obviously can't back up.
While all the evidence they do have, including 24,000 supposedly 'lost' emails from Lerner, laughably contradict their narrative.
When did these crashes take place?
I've owned and maintained hundreds of computers. No hd crashes except on those computers that were over 10 years old.The Treasury Department’s inspector general for tax administration reported that the IRS had a system in place to check how well it is replacing old computer hardware and had developed a strategy to improve access to data and cost effectiveness, among other things.
“Taxpayers and IRS employees rely heavily on the information technology infrastructure to ensure satisfaction of tax liabilities, quick resolution of issues, and the security of confidential taxpayer information,” J. Russell George, the tax administration inspector general, said in a statement. “The IRS is to be commended for these improvements.”
For its part, the IRS responded that it was pleased with the report’s findings.
The tax administration inspector general had made a string of recommendations roughly three years ago about the agency’s procedures in replacing computers, including that the IRS should improve how it tracks its computer inventory. The inspector general made no recommendations this time around.
Read more: I.G. report: IRS improved computer maintenance | TheHill
Follow us: @thehill on Twitter | TheHill on Facebook
hmmm
2.5 million to maintain 54 hd's. Somebody overcharged.In another [maintenance] contract, 22 of 54 storage devices had been retired prior to the end of the service contract or were migrated to a separate storage contract as part of the IRS’s efforts to consolidate data storage,” according to TIGTA.
“When the contract was originally awarded in December 2009, it covered 54 storage devices with an average annual hardware maintenance cost of about $2.5 million,” according to the TIGTA report. ”The current list, dated April 1, 2013, showed 32 storage devices requiring maintenance. The decrease in the number of storage devices is due to the retirement of those hardware assets or the migration to a separate storage contract as part of IRS’s efforts to consolidate and share storage across the IRS.”
Read more: http://dailycaller.com/2014/06/25/irs-prematurely-retired-data-storage-devices/#ixzz380sjtSGy
Sp your argument is that the IRS can't store the paper backups so it doesnt really matter? Seriously?
My argument is that virtually no one records every email in paper form in the IRS. Not in lerner's office. Not in the Cincinnatti office. Not in the IRS. Not in the federal government as a whole. Its simply not practiced. Not before the IRS 'scandal'. Not after.
Making the latest in a series of debunked insinuations that the lack of what *no one* does is somehow an indication of conspiracy all the more void of reason or evidence.
Again, we're in year 3. The republican narrative never panned out. Making up brand new baseless batshyte isn't going to magically make a failed narrative somehow viable.