Catholics Don't Exemplify Christianity...

[Meriweather]

Baptism should be done when you are saved.

"Saved" is not Catholic terminology. Some non-Catholics believed "Saved" happens in a single moment in time where they are guaranteed a place in heaven.

Catholic terminology is "Salvation" and salvation includes becoming truly just individuals in thought, word, and deed. It includes becoming holy (sanctified) through the grace of God. And this is The Way of eternal life.

Baptism initiates people on the Way and makes them full-fledged members of the Body of Christ. The graces of baptism invites the Holy Spirit into the new life to begin the work of providing graces to help the person in growing and becoming a just and holy person.

Not sprinkled as a baby. That does not save you.

In many parishes, the baptized, both adult and babies are fully submerged. In other parishes where submersion is not possible, practices of the early Church are followed. One of the earliest examples of Christian art is found in the catacombs where a person is standing in water, with a shell depicted which poured water water over the person being baptized. The Didache (first century) records that baptism must occur in living water, pouring water if the water was not already naturally running. Catholic Churches follow one or the other of these practices.

Correct. Water does not bring salvation. God brings salvation.

Also you do not need to be baptized at all to be saved.

Correct. Christ commanded that we be baptized. However Catholic teaching is that if a person intends to be baptized and follow The Way of salvation, but dies before baptism occurs, that individuals is covered by what Catholics call, "The Baptism of Desire."

You should tell everyone the Gospel. Only God knows who those are that are truly saved

And by the same token, only God knows who--if anyone--is in hell.

 

[defcon4]

If your heart is not broken for God, you most likely are NOT saved.

Bonzi, therein lays the arrogance of some denominations. Passing judgement, deciding who is "saved" and who is not. You know I hate to see bumper stickers such as: "I am not perfect, I am just saved." WTF?? You saved yourself and condemned the other to Hell?

 

[irosie91]

I don't want people to "hate" Christianity because of Catholic "rules and regulations" or to make assumptions about Christianity BASED on Catholic rules and regulations that are NOT Biblical!

Sacraments are not "Catholic rules and regulations." They are Catholic practices, Catholic prayers.

Do you consider prayer and establishing a relationship with Christ rules/regulations, or are they better defined as a practice?

I have issue with Baptism specifically. Among other things. Catholic Sacraments does not = prayer. That is misleading. Let's take Baptism:

Two of the main sacraments specifically are said by the Roman Catholic Church to be necessary in order to gain eternal life: baptism and communion. Because of the Roman Catholic Church belief that baptism is required for salvation, Catholics maintain that it is important to baptize infants. But nowhere in Scripture can you find even a single example or command to do so.

anyone got the words used to say "born again" that are used in the NT? ----I assume they used greek-----of course Jesus did not speak greek (no matter what anyone says there is no evidence that he spoke greek) but I am ACTUALLY INTERESTED in the
words used by whoever wrote it

 

[Meriweather]

Catholic Sacraments does not = prayer. That is misleading.

Yes. Sacraments. Are. Prayers. What is misleading is you pretending they are not.

 

[irosie91]

all well and good-------what does that silly song "GOD SAVE THE QUEEN" mean------whenever I hear it------I picture her having fallen into the Thames

 

[Bonzi]

Please don't use Catholicism as an example of Christianity..
Their doctrine is flawed.

You pray to GOD and JESUS not Mary.
Your sins are forgiven by GOD, not a Priest.

It's CRAP!

Think it exemplifies Christianity extremely well: if the religion as-is doesn't quite work for you, change it.

Sums up Christianity perfectly.

why would anyone even listen to you?

Catholic Sacraments does not = prayer. That is misleading.

Yes. Sacraments. Are. Prayers. What is misleading is you pretending they are not.

So you are saying Baptism is a prayer?

 

[Meriweather]

So you are saying Baptism is a prayer?

Prayer is a petition to God. So yes, Baptism fits the definition of prayer.

 

[Delta4Embassy]

Please don't use Catholicism as an example of Christianity..
Their doctrine is flawed.

You pray to GOD and JESUS not Mary.
Your sins are forgiven by GOD, not a Priest.

It's CRAP!

Think it exemplifies Christianity extremely well: if the religion as-is doesn't quite work for you, change it.

Sums up Christianity perfectly.

why would anyone even listen to you?

Catholic Sacraments does not = prayer. That is misleading.

Yes. Sacraments. Are. Prayers. What is misleading is you pretending they are not.

So you are saying Baptism is a prayer?

Everybody listens to me. May not always agree, but everyone listens.

 

[Bonzi]

I don't want people to "hate" Christianity because of Catholic "rules and regulations" or to make assumptions about Christianity BASED on Catholic rules and regulations that are NOT Biblical!

Sacraments are not "Catholic rules and regulations." They are Catholic practices, Catholic prayers.

Do you consider prayer and establishing a relationship with Christ rules/regulations, or are they better defined as a practice?

I have issue with Baptism specifically. Among other things. Catholic Sacraments does not = prayer. That is misleading. Let's take Baptism:

Two of the main sacraments specifically are said by the Roman Catholic Church to be necessary in order to gain eternal life: baptism and communion. Because of the Roman Catholic Church belief that baptism is required for salvation, Catholics maintain that it is important to baptize infants. But nowhere in Scripture can you find even a single example or command to do so.

anyone got the words used to say "born again" that are used in the NT? ----I assume they used greek-----of course Jesus did not speak greek (no matter what anyone says there is no evidence that he spoke greek) but I am ACTUALLY INTERESTED in the
words used by whoever wrote it

I'm no Biblical scholar, but, here is a link on Biblical Hermenuetics if you are interested.... not even sure the site or information is reputable but is a good starting point if you are actually interested....

What does born again from John 3 3 mean - Biblical Hermeneutics Stack Exchange

 

[Meriweather]

So you are saying Baptism is a prayer?

Prayer is a petition to God. It is also praise, thanksgiving, and worship.

So yes, Baptism fits the definition of prayer.

 

[irosie91]

Baptism should be done when you are saved.

"Saved" is not Catholic terminology. Some non-Catholics believed "Saved" happens in a single moment in time where they are guaranteed a place in heaven.

Catholic terminology is "Salvation" and salvation includes becoming truly just individuals in thought, word, and deed. It includes becoming holy (sanctified) through the grace of God. And this is The Way of eternal life.

Baptism initiates people on the Way and makes them full-fledged members of the Body of Christ. The graces of baptism invites the Holy Spirit into the new life to begin the work of providing graces to help the person in growing and becoming a just and holy person.

Not sprinkled as a baby. That does not save you.

In many parishes, the baptized, both adult and babies are fully submerged. In other parishes where submersion is not possible, practices of the early Church are followed. One of the earliest examples of Christian art is found in the catacombs where a person is standing in water, with a shell depicted which poured water water over the person being baptized. The Didache (first century) records that baptism must occur in living water, pouring water if the water was not already naturally running. Catholic Churches follow one or the other of these practices.

Correct. Water does not bring salvation. God brings salvation.

Also you do not need to be baptized at all to be saved.

Correct. Christ commanded that we be baptized. However Catholic teaching is that if a person intends to be baptized and follow The Way of salvation, but dies before baptism occurs, that individuals is covered by what Catholics call, "The Baptism of Desire."

You should tell everyone the Gospel. Only God knows who those are that are truly saved

And by the same token, only God knows who--if anyone--is in hell.

for the record------the ritual bath for jews requires complete submersion------
and the "koshering of meat" (ie after the animal is already dead) ----also
requires complete submersion in water (besides salting) When I wash dishes---
I require complete submersion.---------In all cases the water used----is supposed to be LIVE water----ie running water (in my estimation-----the stuff running out of the tap---however for actual ritual bathing there are more complex requirements) I hope I have cleared up all the issues for everyone. Hell is a bit deeper than the place where the earth is red. Nice fertile ground---when you dig down-----about 20 inches gets red-------because you are getting close to hell. If you keep digging-----the DEVIL
will pop out------show him a cross and he will run away------I received this knowledge
from a playmate of mine (Lutheran) when I was six---------you're welcome

oh----I forgot------if you do not completely submerge lettuce-----you cannot eat it.
You should also carefully examine lettuce for bugs. Tossing the whole head in a
sinkful of water is not good enough. you're welcome

 

[Bonzi]

I'm pretty much done with this for now. I'm not feeling well and have to get to work.

I stand by my original post, and, may speak more to this later.... Have a good afternoon everyone.

 

[irosie91]

I don't want people to "hate" Christianity because of Catholic "rules and regulations" or to make assumptions about Christianity BASED on Catholic rules and regulations that are NOT Biblical!

Sacraments are not "Catholic rules and regulations." They are Catholic practices, Catholic prayers.

Do you consider prayer and establishing a relationship with Christ rules/regulations, or are they better defined as a practice?

I have issue with Baptism specifically. Among other things. Catholic Sacraments does not = prayer. That is misleading. Let's take Baptism:

Two of the main sacraments specifically are said by the Roman Catholic Church to be necessary in order to gain eternal life: baptism and communion. Because of the Roman Catholic Church belief that baptism is required for salvation, Catholics maintain that it is important to baptize infants. But nowhere in Scripture can you find even a single example or command to do so.

anyone got the words used to say "born again" that are used in the NT? ----I assume they used greek-----of course Jesus did not speak greek (no matter what anyone says there is no evidence that he spoke greek) but I am ACTUALLY INTERESTED in the
words used by whoever wrote it

I'm no Biblical scholar, but, here is a link on Biblical Hermenuetics if you are interested.... not even sure the site or information is reputable but is a good starting point if you are actually interested....

What does born again from John 3 3 mean - Biblical Hermeneutics Stack Exchange

thanks---but that explanation did not come close to impressing me. The author is
interpreting by citing conotations of English phrases

 

[defcon4]

Everybody listens to me.

But of course….

 

[defcon4]

In all cases the water used----is supposed to be LIVE water----ie running water

I hope you don't dip your stuff in the Ganga (live water)

 

[Disir]

I'm pretty much done with this for now. I'm not feeling well and have to get to work.

I stand by my original post, and, may speak more to this later.... Have a good afternoon everyone.

I hope you feel better.

 

[Bonzi]

I'm pretty much done with this for now. I'm not feeling well and have to get to work.

I stand by my original post, and, may speak more to this later.... Have a good afternoon everyone.

I hope you feel better.

Thank you! this is one of those days that just needs to be over and soon (on all levels!) Bed time can not come quickly enough! and I still have a ballgame to go to .. !

 

[TrinityPower]

Weeeelll now...we can plainly see who is Catholic and who isn't now can't we?

I will address a few of comments I saw in skimming through...there are branches from the Catholic church for a reasons. People stopped being sheep and believe what they were told. Much of the reason the church in the middle ages had such a stronghold on people was for political reasons with severe life threatening fall out. They had a service in Latin because no one in their congregation understood it therefore could not question anything. Do you know that even now only the priest is allowed to read from the gospels in a service. They consider them too sacred for a lay person to recite.

Sorry to burst your bubble but the early church spoken of in Acts is not Catholic.

As for claiming that there are no prayers to Mary and other saints...well...you painted yourself in a corner because you have a prayers specifically called Hail Mary. Catholics believe that those "saints" are your messengers and Catholics pray to them about certain things. That's why they are called Patron Saints. They are in charge of taking your prayers to God for certain sicknesses and protections. If you do not pray to them then tell me why there are idols all over in the church and candles are lit in front of them representing your prayers and people kneel in front of them, look at the statue and pray?

I have personally dealt with Catholics (staunch practicing ones) for years, I didn't bow to the ritual nor did I cower to the priest. I sure didn't call him father. There were buckets of kids born in that family while I was in it as well (around 25 after I married into it) and I didn't attend one baptism. They had them I just do not believe in baptising babies so I refused to attend. The style in which their services were conducted were very measured and cold. It was not for me. No one brought a bible and the priest would not wait for anyone to turn in their bible if you did bring one (which I was alone in that) to find the passage because afteral it was printed in the Missal to follow. There was never ever any mention of reading your bible at home and their idea of prayers for the sick were so cold it probably finished a lot of people off. Needless to say mass was not my cup of tea. Nice people from the church I attended with my former spouse but everything about the mass is cold, ritual, and unfeeling. Unless you grew up that way and thought that was normal I don't see why anyone would enter into it but that's just me.

 

[Disir]

Actually the early church was Catholic. That will require picking up a book outside of the bible.

 

[TrinityPower]

Actually the early church was Catholic. That will require picking up a book outside of the bible.

And which book is that? Or is it one hidden in the Vatican vault?