CDZ Chaos By the Bay

[ESay]

don't think there is a an immediate fix- if you do, lets talk about it

It depends on what exactly you want to fix - the homelessness per se or the current consequences it caused.

 

[ClaireH]

.......I also noted, and I concur, there has to be a want to with the addicts- that is a two way street- there has to be a want to with those who aren't addicted- so far, what I see lock-em up, let em die seems to be popular- is that really going to fix anything?

View attachment 473901

Yes I removed the top half of your post because I only wanted to address the end...That said...

I think most the posters here are sympathetic to the issue. However the cure to the issue is complex because it involves the human condition. People become addicted for a multitude of reasons depression, loss, it's the thing to do, etc,..... or even future shock.

Throwing money at it will not solve the problem and might even make the problem worse. There will be those that are saved and many more that will not be and there will always be more that will see taking drugs as a solution.

The only real cure is for the drug addict to be offered a solution that involves them signing, at least some, of their rights away. This would be similar to the police throwing them in prison. On the other hand it doesn't have to involve the police as remedy to their problem.

It could be something as simple as being approached and they sign up for and are taken to a remote location, like a ranch, and isolated from society for a time to clean up (Just a thought). This is a program I would support but it would probably not have many people voluntarily sign up to attend. Again >human nature< reigns supreme.

Otherwise there is the "they have rights" issue that stands in the way of anything done. In which case it is best to simply leave them alone and let nature take it's course. Perhaps a soup kitchen and simple shelters but no money to feed their addiction.

*****SMILE*****

A few months back and I’m going try to find it to post here ,I watched a video of a man driving around in a van and he was helping homeless people one by one. He played music and they knew when he was coming- like an ice cream truck from the old days. He gave them food and some medicines if they agreed to step up. By that he meant they would accept his help in finding employment to get a few of them off the street. He had few successes but he was happy about any he could help.

 

[ClaireH]

was talking with my 18-year-old daughter last night about this very issue and she also watch this video. Her recommendation is to make drugs like alcohol, where it’s illegal to be intoxicated out in the streets same for using drugs out in public. She supports legalizing all drugs but thinks there should be a law against using out in public

Very wise opinion, I think. I don't know why it hasn't been implemented yet. My guess is that a certain group of powerful people makes a great deal of easy money out of that.

You’re right that there are certain groups that profit from the homeless populations, which is a very screwed up situation that needs to change.

The continued rate of acceleration of these growing tent populations is so overwhelming that many people are just giving up there homes/livelihood and moving away. If they don’t do something now as a last ditch effort, SF tent pops will eventually encapsulate the entire city, as more homeless are drawn there from other states. Warmer weather will now amplify the numbers, with gangs freely dealing drugs on street corners.

Btw- I’ll make sure to tell my daughter you gave her the thumbs up on her comment- it will make her smile which makes me smile-thanks

 

[Damaged Eagle]

.......I also noted, and I concur, there has to be a want to with the addicts- that is a two way street- there has to be a want to with those who aren't addicted- so far, what I see lock-em up, let em die seems to be popular- is that really going to fix anything?

View attachment 473901

Yes I removed the top half of your post because I only wanted to address the end...That said...

I think most the posters here are sympathetic to the issue. However the cure to the issue is complex because it involves the human condition. People become addicted for a multitude of reasons depression, loss, it's the thing to do, etc,..... or even future shock.

Throwing money at it will not solve the problem and might even make the problem worse. There will be those that are saved and many more that will not be and there will always be more that will see taking drugs as a solution.

The only real cure is for the drug addict to be offered a solution that involves them signing, at least some, of their rights away. This would be similar to the police throwing them in prison. On the other hand it doesn't have to involve the police as remedy to their problem.

It could be something as simple as being approached and they sign up for and are taken to a remote location, like a ranch, and isolated from society for a time to clean up (Just a thought). This is a program I would support but it would probably not have many people voluntarily sign up to attend. Again >human nature< reigns supreme.

Otherwise there is the "they have rights" issue that stands in the way of anything done. In which case it is best to simply leave them alone and let nature take it's course. Perhaps a soup kitchen and simple shelters but no money to feed their addiction.

*****SMILE*****

A few months back and I’m going try to find it to post here ,I watched a video of a man driving around in a van and he was helping homeless people one by one. He played music and they knew when he was coming- like an ice cream truck from the old days. He gave them food and some medicines if they agreed to step up. By that he meant they would accept his help in finding employment to get a few of them off the street. He had few successes but he was happy about any he could help.

I believe I saw it or something very similar. As I said in the my post that you quoted there will be a few that might be saved but many, many more, who will not be because they will refuse. Then there will always be more who choose to turn to those ways or return to those ways.

*****SMILE*****

 

[ESay]

was talking with my 18-year-old daughter last night about this very issue and she also watch this video. Her recommendation is to make drugs like alcohol, where it’s illegal to be intoxicated out in the streets same for using drugs out in public. She supports legalizing all drugs but thinks there should be a law against using out in public

Very wise opinion, I think. I don't know why it hasn't been implemented yet. My guess is that a certain group of powerful people makes a great deal of easy money out of that.

You’re right that there are certain groups that profit from the homeless populations, which is a very screwed up situation that needs to change.

The continued rate of acceleration of these growing tent populations is so overwhelming that many people are just giving up there homes/livelihood and moving away. If they don’t do something now as a last ditch effort, SF tent pops will eventually encapsulate the entire city, as more homeless are drawn there from other states. Warmer weather will now amplify the numbers, with gangs freely dealing drugs on street corners.

Btw- I’ll make sure to tell my daughter you gave her the thumbs up on her comment- it will make her smile which makes me smile-thanks

The main question is what the reasonable authorities should do in this situation. You can't just gather all these people and put them somewhere in the desert or behind the bars.

PS You are welcome. Best wishes to your daughter.

 

[EvilCat Breath]

Trump did NOTHING like Hitler unlike Biden. Trump was the best thing to happen to America since Reagan.

What Trump did to get elected, was almost exactly like Hitler. Made promises he knew he's never be able to fulfill.

Wait, they all do that.

Nevermind.

Trump did keep his promises. The only time he didn't is when communist democrats made it impossible.

 

[ClaireH]

was talking with my 18-year-old daughter last night about this very issue and she also watch this video. Her recommendation is to make drugs like alcohol, where it’s illegal to be intoxicated out in the streets same for using drugs out in public. She supports legalizing all drugs but thinks there should be a law against using out in public

Very wise opinion, I think. I don't know why it hasn't been implemented yet. My guess is that a certain group of powerful people makes a great deal of easy money out of that.

You’re right that there are certain groups that profit from the homeless populations, which is a very screwed up situation that needs to change.

The continued rate of acceleration of these growing tent populations is so overwhelming that many people are just giving up there homes/livelihood and moving away. If they don’t do something now as a last ditch effort, SF tent pops will eventually encapsulate the entire city, as more homeless are drawn there from other states. Warmer weather will now amplify the numbers, with gangs freely dealing drugs on street corners.

Btw- I’ll make sure to tell my daughter you gave her the thumbs up on her comment- it will make her smile which makes me smile-thanks

The main question is what the reasonable authorities should do in this situation. You can't just gather all these people and put them somewhere in the desert or behind the bars.

PS You are welcome. Best wishes to your daughter.

Well I got to say that what Damaged Eagle mentioned about setting up ranch type of temporary residence sounds promising, somewhere off the beaten path and staffed mostly by recovered addicts, they could work like halfway houses. A lot of drug addicts have a good act of pretending to be doing the right thing and on the right path and a former addict can better call them out by knowing the tricks of the trade.

 

[asaratis]

Because they want to. They chose that route. It's as simple as that.

That "they want to" is only the title of a chapter in the book "Why People Turn To Drugs In The First Place."

The sections in that chapter would possibly include separate discussion of why they want to, such as:

• Peer pressure
• Sibling pressure
• Emulating one or both parents
• Dealer pressure
• Curiosity
• Prescription (not necessarily a "want" of the patient, but a recommendation by the person prescribing, then willfully taken by the patient)
• Mistaking an addictive drug for other medicines (technically not classified as "turning to drugs")

Hasn't the democrat party's response to covid convinced people that they are committed to public safety?

It has convinced me that the Democrat Party is committed to controlling people.

The reality is that not many can be saved with forced measures (or with any measures) but some can as depicted in the video.

If you'd change "not many" to "some", I would agree 100%. We don't really know how many people are addicted to drugs. I'm certain that for the population of drug addicted people there is a bell curve that applies to the degree of each addict's "redeemability" via forced measures. To say that there are "not many" that are redeemable is a guess. To say that some are not is a certainty.

Yes, I have sympathy for these drug attics who are mentality ill, but does that mean I’m willing to be exposed to their lifestyle as in right in my face? No thanks.

I agree 100%.

 

[ClaireH]

Because they want to. They chose that route. It's as simple as that.

That "they want to" is only the title of a chapter in the book "Why People Turn To Drugs In The First Place."

The sections in that chapter would possibly include separate discussion of why they want to, such as:

• Peer pressure
• Sibling pressure
• Emulating one or both parents
• Dealer pressure
• Curiosity
• Prescription (not necessarily a "want" of the patient, but a recommendation by the person prescribing, then willfully taken by the patient)
• Mistaking an addictive drug for other medicines (technically not classified as "turning to drugs")

Hasn't the democrat party's response to covid convinced people that they are committed to public safety?

It has convinced me that the Democrat Party is committed to controlling people.

The reality is that not many can be saved with forced measures (or with any measures) but some can as depicted in the video.

If you'd change "not many" to "some", I would agree 100%. We don't really know how many people are addicted to drugs. I'm certain that for the population of drug addicted people there is a bell curve that applies to the degree of each addict's "redeemability" via forced measures. To say that there are "not many" that are redeemable is a guess. To say that some are not is a certainty.

Yes, I have sympathy for these drug attics who are mentality ill, but does that mean I’m willing to be exposed to their lifestyle as in right in my face? No thanks.

I agree 100%.

I wrote that “not many” too quickly and see how it reads. My intent was to say that overall a percentage of the homeless can be saved, while as you’ve indicated the exact numbers we’re talking here eludes me. People have different reasons/circumstances to become homeless.

The following remarks are targeted at individuals who become addicted to drugs while still living in a functional family setting. A person while in the course of ruining their own life with bad choices ruins not just their own life, but often the lives of family members who try to help (many trying for years and years) but instead become enablers or doormats. It has a lot to do with family support system, when the family learns that Toughlove is the only response that they should utilize, it’s often at the situation where the drug addict has stolen numerous times from them, including wedding rings, other jewelry from their own family members etc. and the willingness of what families will often go through before giving up on them. A very sad aspect of life for many families from various income brackets. I have an extended family member who is likely still a drug addict it’s hard to tell with all of the lying and deception and the trickery so I am unfortunately well aware of how low they can take down their family members. I watched her family suffer for years, until they finally (not the mom though who died prematurely due to the constant stress and worry over her daughter) accepted she was only capable of constant deception to get money for meth. So in that way I’ve seen it firsthand, or perhaps secondhand, but it’s still close enough to have enough information to make an assessment. What could help her, even today? I have no clue because she continues to hang around with fellow users, and now she has a basically free apartment (nominal rent price scaled in subsidized housing) because she was able to get disability undeservedly at first, but now totally qualifies. That’s a whole other element because she doesn’t count into the homeless population and had she not “lucked out” with receiving a monthly disability check, she surely would have been without a roof over her head. I am sure there are tens of thousands (best guess only) who are just on the verge of homelessness just like her.

 

[EvilCat Breath]

was talking with my 18-year-old daughter last night about this very issue and she also watch this video. Her recommendation is to make drugs like alcohol, where it’s illegal to be intoxicated out in the streets same for using drugs out in public. She supports legalizing all drugs but thinks there should be a law against using out in public

Very wise opinion, I think. I don't know why it hasn't been implemented yet. My guess is that a certain group of powerful people makes a great deal of easy money out of that.

You’re right that there are certain groups that profit from the homeless populations, which is a very screwed up situation that needs to change.

The continued rate of acceleration of these growing tent populations is so overwhelming that many people are just giving up there homes/livelihood and moving away. If they don’t do something now as a last ditch effort, SF tent pops will eventually encapsulate the entire city, as more homeless are drawn there from other states. Warmer weather will now amplify the numbers, with gangs freely dealing drugs on street corners.

Btw- I’ll make sure to tell my daughter you gave her the thumbs up on her comment- it will make her smile which makes me smile-thanks

The main question is what the reasonable authorities should do in this situation. You can't just gather all these people and put them somewhere in the desert or behind the bars.

PS You are welcome. Best wishes to your daughter.

Well I got to say that what Damaged Eagle mentioned about setting up ranch type of temporary residence sounds promising, somewhere off the beaten path and staffed mostly by recovered addicts, they could work like halfway houses. A lot of drug addicts have a good act of pretending to be doing the right thing and on the right path and a former addict can better call them out by knowing the tricks of the trade.

A warehouse where they will be given all the drugs they want until they die.

 

[ClaireH]

was talking with my 18-year-old daughter last night about this very issue and she also watch this video. Her recommendation is to make drugs like alcohol, where it’s illegal to be intoxicated out in the streets same for using drugs out in public. She supports legalizing all drugs but thinks there should be a law against using out in public

Very wise opinion, I think. I don't know why it hasn't been implemented yet. My guess is that a certain group of powerful people makes a great deal of easy money out of that.

You’re right that there are certain groups that profit from the homeless populations, which is a very screwed up situation that needs to change.

The continued rate of acceleration of these growing tent populations is so overwhelming that many people are just giving up there homes/livelihood and moving away. If they don’t do something now as a last ditch effort, SF tent pops will eventually encapsulate the entire city, as more homeless are drawn there from other states. Warmer weather will now amplify the numbers, with gangs freely dealing drugs on street corners.

Btw- I’ll make sure to tell my daughter you gave her the thumbs up on her comment- it will make her smile which makes me smile-thanks

The main question is what the reasonable authorities should do in this situation. You can't just gather all these people and put them somewhere in the desert or behind the bars.

PS You are welcome. Best wishes to your daughter.

Well I got to say that what Damaged Eagle mentioned about setting up ranch type of temporary residence sounds promising, somewhere off the beaten path and staffed mostly by recovered addicts, they could work like halfway houses. A lot of drug addicts have a good act of pretending to be doing the right thing and on the right path and a former addict can better call them out by knowing the tricks of the trade.

A warehouse where they will be given all the drugs they want until they die.

Well Tipsy, you’re a little rougher around the edges (from reading your posts) than I happen to be, but I understand your thought believe me, I don’t agree but I understand.

 

[Gdjjr]

Otherwise there is the "they have rights" issue that stands in the way of anything done.

When anothers rights are violated you are foregoing your rights- laws are intended to punish for criminal activity. If and when criminal activity occurs rights are then restricted, if the criminals are incarcerated. But, that too is a slippery slope. Too many cops rely on drug busts for moving up the food chain, so, that part of the system has to be reformed- first. Also incarcerating for petty shit has to stop. So, then "petty" has to be defined. So, more time, due to bureaucracy, is required (no quick fix)- what we're witnessing, IMNSHO, is; wrong headed people being listened to, which is referred to as a squeaky wheel getting greased- money is a/the grease- follow it, see the agenda.

Unintended consequences can be a biotch- wrong headedness is intentional though- it's bought and paid for.
Drugs are a business. BIG business world wide- not just in San Francisco. San Francisco is show cased, I guess, because of the amount of wealth there- anecdote; I just read a story (I'm going to link to in a different forum), where the author says he had to pay 350 bucks a month rent in San Francisco and thought at that time it was outrageous- not really that long ago- I don't know what's caused San Francisco to get to where it is- but, it ain't working the way we're accustomed to things working-


I like your idea of a secluded spot- a ranch is a really good idea because they require physical labor, which can be a cure all for many problems, especially self esteem and self respect which seem to me something that is lost to drugs. Good idea!

 

[Concerned American]

Otherwise there is the "they have rights" issue that stands in the way of anything done.

When anothers rights are violated you are foregoing your rights- laws are intended to punish for criminal activity. If and when criminal activity occurs rights are then restricted, if the criminals are incarcerated. But, that too is a slippery slope. Too many cops rely on drug busts for moving up the food chain, so, that part of the system has to be reformed- first. Also incarcerating for petty shit has to stop. So, then "petty" has to be defined. So, more time, due to bureaucracy, is required (no quick fix)- what we're witnessing, IMNSHO, is; wrong headed people being listened to, which is referred to as a squeaky wheel getting greased- money is a/the grease- follow it, see the agenda.

Unintended consequences can be a biotch- wrong headedness is intentional though- it's bought and paid for.
Drugs are a business. BIG business world wide- not just in San Francisco. San Francisco is show cased, I guess, because of the amount of wealth there- anecdote; I just read a story (I'm going to link to in a different forum), where the author says he had to pay 350 bucks a month rent in San Francisco and thought at that time it was outrageous- not really that long ago- I don't know what's caused San Francisco to get to where it is- but, it ain't working the way we're accustomed to things working-


I like your idea of a secluded spot- a ranch is a really good idea because they require physical labor, which can be a cure all for many problems, especially self esteem and self respect which seem to me something that is lost to drugs. Good idea!

I would like to know where your "author" found so much as a park bench for $350 a month in SF. There has not been a $350/mo lodging in SF in 50 years unless there were at least 6 people sharing a studio and each paying that amount.

 

[Damaged Eagle]

Otherwise there is the "they have rights" issue that stands in the way of anything done.

When anothers rights are violated you are foregoing your rights- laws are intended to punish for criminal activity. If and when criminal activity occurs rights are then restricted, if the criminals are incarcerated. But, that too is a slippery slope. Too many cops rely on drug busts for moving up the food chain, so, that part of the system has to be reformed- first. Also incarcerating for petty shit has to stop. So, then "petty" has to be defined. So, more time, due to bureaucracy, is required (no quick fix)- what we're witnessing, IMNSHO, is; wrong headed people being listened to, which is referred to as a squeaky wheel getting greased- money is a/the grease- follow it, see the agenda.

Unintended consequences can be a biotch- wrong headedness is intentional though- it's bought and paid for.
Drugs are a business. BIG business world wide- not just in San Francisco. San Francisco is show cased, I guess, because of the amount of wealth there- anecdote; I just read a story (I'm going to link to in a different forum), where the author says he had to pay 350 bucks a month rent in San Francisco and thought at that time it was outrageous- not really that long ago- I don't know what's caused San Francisco to get to where it is- but, it ain't working the way we're accustomed to things working-


I like your idea of a secluded spot- a ranch is a really good idea because they require physical labor, which can be a cure all for many problems, especially self esteem and self respect which seem to me something that is lost to drugs. Good idea!

I worked with special needs clients for a number of years. I enjoyed working with the clients I had and always presented them choices. I don't anymore because a clique of co-workers decided they didn't like me and looked for issues in everything I did. One day I walked out and haven't went back and when my boss wanted to have me give information up about how I did things I told her I wasn't with my client so I wasn't being paid for my time doing so (One of the issues she had with me) therefore she could figure out what to do on her own.

Working with special needs is much like working with the homeless. They have rights. As I said unless you have them sign at least some of those rights away, like the military does, there's no way to enforce anything unless they break the law. No I never had to call the police on any of my special needs people but I would have if necessary.

I'm glad you like my suggestion of the ranch but that might only save one in a hundred or, more likely, a thousand. The rest will, most likely, choose to remain in the condition they've made for themselves.

The reason this is happening? You said it yourself. Corruption. Most likely at all levels of enforcement. Why? Drug sales, prostitution, and... body parts from those who will not be missed.

How do you stop it?

VVV---ANSWER BELOW---VVV

*****SMILE*****

 

[Gdjjr]

I would like to know where your "author" found so much as a park bench for $350 a month in SF.

He's not "my" anything- but here, you ask him

Life Lessons from a Moab Trailer

What I learned about love, loss, and landscape over two decades of living in a 1961 Artcraft mobile home in the Utah desert

www.outsideonline.com

 

[ClaireH]

Otherwise there is the "they have rights" issue that stands in the way of anything done.

When anothers rights are violated you are foregoing your rights- laws are intended to punish for criminal activity. If and when criminal activity occurs rights are then restricted, if the criminals are incarcerated. But, that too is a slippery slope. Too many cops rely on drug busts for moving up the food chain, so, that part of the system has to be reformed- first. Also incarcerating for petty shit has to stop. So, then "petty" has to be defined. So, more time, due to bureaucracy, is required (no quick fix)- what we're witnessing, IMNSHO, is; wrong headed people being listened to, which is referred to as a squeaky wheel getting greased- money is a/the grease- follow it, see the agenda.

Unintended consequences can be a biotch- wrong headedness is intentional though- it's bought and paid for.
Drugs are a business. BIG business world wide- not just in San Francisco. San Francisco is show cased, I guess, because of the amount of wealth there- anecdote; I just read a story (I'm going to link to in a different forum), where the author says he had to pay 350 bucks a month rent in San Francisco and thought at that time it was outrageous- not really that long ago- I don't know what's caused San Francisco to get to where it is- but, it ain't working the way we're accustomed to things working-


I like your idea of a secluded spot- a ranch is a really good idea because they require physical labor, which can be a cure all for many problems, especially self esteem and self respect which seem to me something that is lost to drugs. Good idea!

View attachment 474024

I worked with special needs clients for a number of years. I enjoyed working with the clients I had and always presented them choices. I don't anymore because a clique of co-workers decided they didn't like me and looked for issues in everything I did. One day I walked out and haven't went back and when my boss wanted to have me give information up about how I did things I told her I wasn't with my client so I wasn't being paid for my time doing so (One of the issues she had with me) therefore she could figure out what to do on her own.

Working with special needs is much like working with the homeless. They have rights. As I said unless you have them sign at least some of those rights away, like the military does, there's no way to enforce anything unless they break the law. No I never had to call the police on any of my special needs people but I would have if necessary.

I'm glad you like my suggestion of the ranch but that might only save one in a hundred or, more likely, a thousand. The rest will, most likely, choose to remain in the condition they've made for themselves.

The reason this is happening? You said it yourself. Corruption. Most likely at all levels of enforcement. Why? Drug sales, prostitution, and... body parts from those who will not be missed.

How do you stop it?

VVV---ANSWER BELOW---VVV

*****SMILE*****

Regarding possible timing as a target: Maybe there’s some type of time element here....thinking more about the guy that did have a success story to share on the video after being on the streets for six months. It makes sense to think that the longer you’re out there, the harder it is to pull you back in. Maybe targeting newly homeless but still offering help to all interested with immediate help before they’re too ingrained. This doesn’t account for the mental illness crowd however and that’s just one sorry state of affairs right there.

 

[Gdjjr]

Maybe there’s some type of time element here

Last week I finished reading a novel, The Border, by Don Winslow. There are several stories intertwined, one of them being an addict in NY- a heroine addict to be specific- she, and her boy friend lived in his van, he too was an addict- she, at the time she was introduced into the story, worked at a Starbucks- anyway, she had done re-hab, more than once, but, an inner voice kept pulling her back into heroine- (<long story short)- the author's introspective into the different people involved in drugs made it a really good read and enlightening- 842 pages- it also illustrates the Big Business aspect and it's continued growth- how pushers are recruited, etc..

But, what I'm saying here is- it gets hold of you and doesn't want to let go and the desire to go back is stronger than the desire to stay clean- until- typically a traumatic event and a come to Jesus talk with yourself- or, it can even be something as innocuous as walking by the same place every day doing the same thing every day- one size won't/can't fit all.

 

[YoursTruly]

A warehouse where they will be given all the drugs they want until they die.

They die happy.

 

[Concerned American]

I would like to know where your "author" found so much as a park bench for $350 a month in SF.

He's not "my" anything- but here, you ask him

Life Lessons from a Moab Trailer

What I learned about love, loss, and landscape over two decades of living in a 1961 Artcraft mobile home in the Utah desert

www.outsideonline.com

No need to get your dander up. I used "your" because you spoke of him in your post. I just made an informed observance. He must have been living in his trailer in someone's backyard. Rents just are not that cheap on the SF peninsula.

 

[YoursTruly]

an inner voice kept pulling her back into heroine-

Her inner voice was high.

But, what I'm saying here is- it gets hold of you and doesn't want to let go and the desire to go back is stronger than the desire to stay clean

There's enough information about how bad heroine is, how addictive it is and how hard it is to get off of it, not to mention all the said effects (like stealing toasters from your grandma) should be enough information for one to make a decision to stay off of that crap. It's easy to do.

Personally, songs like Lynyrd Skynyrds "That smell" helped me stay off of it. "Ya fool you."
The laws of nature is a powerful force. It seems to have a way of getting rid of the week. But as long as "we the people" have sympathy for the weak, keep coddling them, they'll just keep adversely affecting the lives of decent human beings, instead of just dying, like nature intended.