Christ-Mass is of no concern for Protestants, why do you even

[Penelope]

Holy Roman Catholic Church, big deal. Now go on and tell me how I'm not a RC.

 

[Penelope]

The Jewish people do not recognize Jesus as the son of God!

You mean the part that says , God became man so men might become Gods?

I see you pick and choose what to selectively believe is allegory and what is not.

You want to quibble over theology when your central belief is there is no supernatural being?

That Jesus was just some dude?

Yes, let's split a few hairs to distract from the phoniness of your position, P.

Well we certainty know that Jesus was not who we think he was, since he was not born of a virgin, possibly a man named Jesus was a walking rabbi in those days, we know there were 2 Jesus's in the NT, Barabbas aka Jesus bar Abbas, and Jesus the Messiah. We also know who Simon and John were, and Simon reached his death in Rome and John spent his remaining days in prison in Rome.

The Jewish people do not recognize Jesus as the son of God!

You mean the part that says , God became man so men might become Gods?

I see you pick and choose what to selectively believe is allegory and what is not.

You want to quibble over theology when your central belief is there is no supernatural being?

That Jesus was just some dude?

Yes, let's split a few hairs to distract from the phoniness of your position, P.

Well we certainty know that Jesus was not who we think he was, since he was not born of a virgin, possibly a man named Jesus was a walking rabbi in those days, we know there were 2 Jesus's in the NT, Barabbas aka Jesus bar Abbas, and Jesus the Messiah. We also know who Simon and John were, and Simon reached his death in Rome and John spent his remaining days in prison in Rome.

Your proof is?

John at Jerusalem.

The second stage of John's activity began at Jerusalem. Here he persuaded the people that it was better to repulse the Romans from behind strong walls than to die to no purpose in the small towns of Galilee. His followers, several thousand strong, who passed in Jerusalem under the name of "Galileans," distinguished themselves by wild bravery; more than 2,000 men from Tiberias alone were in the city ("Vita," § 65). Josephus accuses them of plunder and rape. John made himself the tyrant of Jerusalem, then rent by parties; and to the end he remained a chief personage of the war. His head-quarters were at first on Ophel ("B. J." iv. 9, § 11); and from this position he forced the Zealots back into the Temple. He was joined by the Idumeans that had remained at Jerusalem. The peace party of Jerusalem now called Simon bar Giora and his army into the city; but this was to their detriment, as they now had two tyrants over them (ib. § 12; comp. ib. v. 13, § 1). Another party now arose, Eleazar b. Simon seceding from John's command and occupying the inner court of the Temple (ib. v. 1, § 2; Tacitus, "Hist." v. 12). This step must have materially weakened John's power, especially as the Idumeans he had called to his aid were no longer in the city. The latter had murdered the high priest Anan b. Anan, a deed for permitting which John must be blamed; and Eleazar's defection proves that likewise after that event he did not hesitate to commit acts of violence. Circumstances almost justified John in seizing the dictatorship ("B. J." iv. 7, § 1; comp. 9, § 10).

The three parties in Jerusalem now fell upon one another. John fought both with Bar Giora and with Eleazar. He repulsed the followers of the former from the colonnades of the Temple; and the missiles that the Eleazarites hurled from the Temple he stopped by machines, in the construction of which he used even the timber that had been provided for alterations to the holy house (ib. v. 1, § 5; comp. vi. 3, § 2). On the occasion of the last Passover that the Jews ever celebrated in the Temple Eleazar admitted the country people into the building; but John's followers pressed in among them with concealed weapons and attacked them (ib. v. 3, § 1). When Eleazar disappeared from the scene, John took possession of the Temple. He now had 8,400 followers, including 2,400 Zealots. They burned the part of the city lying between the forces of John and those of Simon that they might be better able to fight; and John and Simon bar Giora did not unite until the Romans were at the gate. Then they so arranged matters that the followers of John defended the part of the wall at Antonia and the northern stoa of the Temple, while the followers of Simon defended the rest (ib. 7, § 3; comp. 9, § 2).

John's End.

When the engines were brought, John had from within undermined the space that was over against the tower of Antonia, as far as the banks themselves, and had supported the ground over the mine with beams laid across one another, whereby the Roman works stood upon an uncertain foundation. Then he ordered such materials to be brought in as were daubed over with pitch and bitumen and set them on fire; and as the cross-beams that supported the banks were burning, the ditch yielded on the sudden, and the banks were shaken down and fell into the ditch with a prodigious noise (ib. v. 11, § 4).

As the people had nothing more of which they could be robbed, John laid hands upon the vessels of the Temple. All being nearly lost, John was asked to surrender; but even now he reviled Josephus—who had been commissioned by Titus to make the demand—still hoping that the city would not be conquered. After the Temple fell John succeeded in escaping to the upper city, and when again asked to surrender he demanded free retreat with his arms. As this request was not granted the fighting was continued. In Elul, 70, the upper city also fell into the hands of the Romans: theleaders, however, did not surrender, but hid in subterranean passages. John was finally forced by hunger to give himself up to the Romans. Condemned to lifelong fetters, he was reserved for the Roman triumph of Titus, and he probably died in a prison at Rome (ib. vii. 5, § 3).

This is a catholic bible?

The Jewish people do not recognize Jesus as the son of God!

You mean the part that says , God became man so men might become Gods?

I see you pick and choose what to selectively believe is allegory and what is not.

You want to quibble over theology when your central belief is there is no supernatural being?

That Jesus was just some dude?

Yes, let's split a few hairs to distract from the phoniness of your position, P.

Well we certainty know that Jesus was not who we think he was, since he was not born of a virgin, possibly a man named Jesus was a walking rabbi in those days, we know there were 2 Jesus's in the NT, Barabbas aka Jesus bar Abbas, and Jesus the Messiah. We also know who Simon and John were, and Simon reached his death in Rome and John spent his remaining days in prison in Rome.

The Jewish people do not recognize Jesus as the son of God!

You mean the part that says , God became man so men might become Gods?

I see you pick and choose what to selectively believe is allegory and what is not.

You want to quibble over theology when your central belief is there is no supernatural being?

That Jesus was just some dude?

Yes, let's split a few hairs to distract from the phoniness of your position, P.

Well we certainty know that Jesus was not who we think he was, since he was not born of a virgin, possibly a man named Jesus was a walking rabbi in those days, we know there were 2 Jesus's in the NT, Barabbas aka Jesus bar Abbas, and Jesus the Messiah. We also know who Simon and John were, and Simon reached his death in Rome and John spent his remaining days in prison in Rome.

Your proof is?

John at Jerusalem.

The second stage of John's activity began at Jerusalem. Here he persuaded the people that it was better to repulse the Romans from behind strong walls than to die to no purpose in the small towns of Galilee. His followers, several thousand strong, who passed in Jerusalem under the name of "Galileans," distinguished themselves by wild bravery; more than 2,000 men from Tiberias alone were in the city ("Vita," § 65). Josephus accuses them of plunder and rape. John made himself the tyrant of Jerusalem, then rent by parties; and to the end he remained a chief personage of the war. His head-quarters were at first on Ophel ("B. J." iv. 9, § 11); and from this position he forced the Zealots back into the Temple. He was joined by the Idumeans that had remained at Jerusalem. The peace party of Jerusalem now called Simon bar Giora and his army into the city; but this was to their detriment, as they now had two tyrants over them (ib. § 12; comp. ib. v. 13, § 1). Another party now arose, Eleazar b. Simon seceding from John's command and occupying the inner court of the Temple (ib. v. 1, § 2; Tacitus, "Hist." v. 12). This step must have materially weakened John's power, especially as the Idumeans he had called to his aid were no longer in the city. The latter had murdered the high priest Anan b. Anan, a deed for permitting which John must be blamed; and Eleazar's defection proves that likewise after that event he did not hesitate to commit acts of violence. Circumstances almost justified John in seizing the dictatorship ("B. J." iv. 7, § 1; comp. 9, § 10).

The three parties in Jerusalem now fell upon one another. John fought both with Bar Giora and with Eleazar. He repulsed the followers of the former from the colonnades of the Temple; and the missiles that the Eleazarites hurled from the Temple he stopped by machines, in the construction of which he used even the timber that had been provided for alterations to the holy house (ib. v. 1, § 5; comp. vi. 3, § 2). On the occasion of the last Passover that the Jews ever celebrated in the Temple Eleazar admitted the country people into the building; but John's followers pressed in among them with concealed weapons and attacked them (ib. v. 3, § 1). When Eleazar disappeared from the scene, John took possession of the Temple. He now had 8,400 followers, including 2,400 Zealots. They burned the part of the city lying between the forces of John and those of Simon that they might be better able to fight; and John and Simon bar Giora did not unite until the Romans were at the gate. Then they so arranged matters that the followers of John defended the part of the wall at Antonia and the northern stoa of the Temple, while the followers of Simon defended the rest (ib. 7, § 3; comp. 9, § 2).

John's End.

When the engines were brought, John had from within undermined the space that was over against the tower of Antonia, as far as the banks themselves, and had supported the ground over the mine with beams laid across one another, whereby the Roman works stood upon an uncertain foundation. Then he ordered such materials to be brought in as were daubed over with pitch and bitumen and set them on fire; and as the cross-beams that supported the banks were burning, the ditch yielded on the sudden, and the banks were shaken down and fell into the ditch with a prodigious noise (ib. v. 11, § 4).

As the people had nothing more of which they could be robbed, John laid hands upon the vessels of the Temple. All being nearly lost, John was asked to surrender; but even now he reviled Josephus—who had been commissioned by Titus to make the demand—still hoping that the city would not be conquered. After the Temple fell John succeeded in escaping to the upper city, and when again asked to surrender he demanded free retreat with his arms. As this request was not granted the fighting was continued. In Elul, 70, the upper city also fell into the hands of the Romans: theleaders, however, did not surrender, but hid in subterranean passages. John was finally forced by hunger to give himself up to the Romans. Condemned to lifelong fetters, he was reserved for the Roman triumph of Titus, and he probably died in a prison at Rome (ib. vii. 5, § 3).

This is a catholic bible?

No its the Jewish Encyl. Who knows better who these people are. Who do you think Simon and John are?

 

[WillowTree]

Why are you quoting Jews in regards to Christmas?

 

[Correll]

celebrate Christ-mass. Actually the Mass is the death of Christ, its all about the Eucharist, and we take the body of Christ (the holy Eucharist)and drink wine AKA his blood .

So Christmas and Christ mass are not the same thing, but in the 300's Dec 25th , the winter solstice, was to be celebrated as Jesus's birthday.

So as Jesus did say to the Samaritan woman, you worship what you do not know.

Wow. YOu just noticed a similarity in words and used that to make fun of Christians.


This place is a great place to see what liberals are.

 

[Penelope]

Why are you quoting Jews in regards to Christmas?

I'm reading form the Jewish ency, since you asked for proof of who Simon and John were, you have it now.

 

[Penelope]

celebrate Christ-mass. Actually the Mass is the death of Christ, its all about the Eucharist, and we take the body of Christ (the holy Eucharist)and drink wine AKA his blood .

So Christmas and Christ mass are not the same thing, but in the 300's Dec 25th , the winter solstice, was to be celebrated as Jesus's birthday.

So as Jesus did say to the Samaritan woman, you worship what you do not know.

Wow. YOu just noticed a similarity in words and used that to make fun of Christians.


This place is a great place to see what liberals are.

I am probably more conservative that you ever dreamed of being, and its true, Christmas was not celebrated till the 3rd century and made a civil holiday till the fifth and the Prots , esp Evans can skip it because Christmas means Christ-mass , and since they do not participate in the Mass it has nothing to do with them.

 

[mudwhistle]

celebrate Christ-mass. Actually the Mass is the death of Christ, its all about the Eucharist, and we take the body of Christ (the holy Eucharist)and drink wine AKA his blood .

So Christmas and Christ mass are not the same thing, but in the 300's Dec 25th , the winter solstice, was to be celebrated as Jesus's birthday.

So as Jesus did say to the Samaritan woman, you worship what you do not know.

I think you need to crack a Bible before you begin to lecture Christians about the meaning of Christ.

 

[WillowTree]

Why are you quoting Jews in regards to Christmas?

I'm reading form the Jewish ency, since you asked for proof of who Simon and John were, you have it now.

No, I asked for proof that Jesus was not a virgin birth.

 

[Correll]

celebrate Christ-mass. Actually the Mass is the death of Christ, its all about the Eucharist, and we take the body of Christ (the holy Eucharist)and drink wine AKA his blood .

So Christmas and Christ mass are not the same thing, but in the 300's Dec 25th , the winter solstice, was to be celebrated as Jesus's birthday.

So as Jesus did say to the Samaritan woman, you worship what you do not know.

Wow. YOu just noticed a similarity in words and used that to make fun of Christians.


This place is a great place to see what liberals are.

I am probably more conservative that you ever dreamed of being, and its true, Christmas was not celebrated till the 3rd century and made a civil holiday till the fifth and the Prots , esp Evans can skip it because Christmas means Christ-mass , and since they do not participate in the Mass it has nothing to do with them.

A Conservative would not use a minor similarity in words to make fun of Christians.



That's pure lefty crap.

 

[Penelope]

celebrate Christ-mass. Actually the Mass is the death of Christ, its all about the Eucharist, and we take the body of Christ (the holy Eucharist)and drink wine AKA his blood .

So Christmas and Christ mass are not the same thing, but in the 300's Dec 25th , the winter solstice, was to be celebrated as Jesus's birthday.

So as Jesus did say to the Samaritan woman, you worship what you do not know.

Wow. YOu just noticed a similarity in words and used that to make fun of Christians.


This place is a great place to see what liberals are.

I am probably more conservative that you ever dreamed of being, and its true, Christmas was not celebrated till the 3rd century and made a civil holiday till the fifth and the Prots , esp Evans can skip it because Christmas means Christ-mass , and since they do not participate in the Mass it has nothing to do with them.

A Conservative would not use a minor similarity in words to make fun of Christians.



That's pure lefty crap.

I am sickened by the evans which includes all different sects of Christianity, also by charismatic Catholics.

 

[mudwhistle]

celebrate Christ-mass. Actually the Mass is the death of Christ, its all about the Eucharist, and we take the body of Christ (the holy Eucharist)and drink wine AKA his blood .

So Christmas and Christ mass are not the same thing, but in the 300's Dec 25th , the winter solstice, was to be celebrated as Jesus's birthday.

So as Jesus did say to the Samaritan woman, you worship what you do not know.

No offense, but do you really think anyone cares what a fake Catholic believes?

Well you should , because we gave you Christianity and also Christmas. Easter as well as the bible. So you really should care about the RCC and the Pope. You owe all your Christianity to them.

Many were celebrating that date for centuries before Christians came along and renamed it.

True it was in the 300's ad that the Emperor made it an empire holiday. Sorry made an error;


While there is one record of Christmas being celebrated in Antioch (Turkey) on December 25 in the middle of the second century, there is no record of its being observed on that date in Rome until the year 336 AD. In 350 AD Pope Julius I declared December 25 the official date and in 529 AD Emperor Justinian declared Christmas a civic holiday. Further legislation by the Council of Tours in 567 AD officially made Advent a period of fasting and preparation; the time from Christmas to Epiphany (the twelve days of Christmas) was also declared part of the festive season.

No kidding.

BTW, did you know that Islam didn't exist before 1200 years ago. The religion was simply made up by Arabs so they could have a religion of their own?

What does Christmas mean to Christians?
It's a celebration of the birth of the savior.
Now look up savior and note the purpose one might have the need for. Easter is the celebration of the fulfillment of the prophecy and the fact that our sins are forgiven. Christmas is a celebration of the deliverer of this grace from God in the person of Christ Jesus. The son of God, his sacrificial lamb. Jews celebrated Hannakkah during this time period begining on Dec 24 at Midnight.
Gift giving was an offshoot from this popularized in Norway which spread further West.

Christmas - Wikipedia

 

[Penelope]

The only way to destroy the Evangelical takeover of the US is to show the bible for what it truly is. Not a theology book but a book about men's ideas about God and Gods and wars and cultures of the eras wrote in , and no one has a clue about tomorrow, there is no crystal ball, the rapture is not happening, Jesus is not coming in the clouds, there is "no left behind junk ", there is no virgin birth.

 

[yiostheoy]

The Jewish people do not recognize Jesus as the son of God!

I see you pick and choose what to selectively believe is allegory and what is not.

You want to quibble over theology when your central belief is there is no supernatural being?

That Jesus was just some dude?

Yes, let's split a few hairs to distract from the phoniness of your position, P.

Douay Rheims.

Google it.
Well we certainty know that Jesus was not who we think he was, since he was not born of a virgin, possibly a man named Jesus was a walking rabbi in those days, we know there were 2 Jesus's in the NT, Barabbas aka Jesus bar Abbas, and Jesus the Messiah. We also know who Simon and John were, and Simon reached his death in Rome and John spent his remaining days in prison in Rome.

The Jewish people do not recognize Jesus as the son of God!

I see you pick and choose what to selectively believe is allegory and what is not.

You want to quibble over theology when your central belief is there is no supernatural being?

That Jesus was just some dude?

Yes, let's split a few hairs to distract from the phoniness of your position, P.

Well we certainty know that Jesus was not who we think he was, since he was not born of a virgin, possibly a man named Jesus was a walking rabbi in those days, we know there were 2 Jesus's in the NT, Barabbas aka Jesus bar Abbas, and Jesus the Messiah. We also know who Simon and John were, and Simon reached his death in Rome and John spent his remaining days in prison in Rome.

Your proof is?

John at Jerusalem.

The second stage of John's activity began at Jerusalem. Here he persuaded the people that it was better to repulse the Romans from behind strong walls than to die to no purpose in the small towns of Galilee. His followers, several thousand strong, who passed in Jerusalem under the name of "Galileans," distinguished themselves by wild bravery; more than 2,000 men from Tiberias alone were in the city ("Vita," § 65). Josephus accuses them of plunder and rape. John made himself the tyrant of Jerusalem, then rent by parties; and to the end he remained a chief personage of the war. His head-quarters were at first on Ophel ("B. J." iv. 9, § 11); and from this position he forced the Zealots back into the Temple. He was joined by the Idumeans that had remained at Jerusalem. The peace party of Jerusalem now called Simon bar Giora and his army into the city; but this was to their detriment, as they now had two tyrants over them (ib. § 12; comp. ib. v. 13, § 1). Another party now arose, Eleazar b. Simon seceding from John's command and occupying the inner court of the Temple (ib. v. 1, § 2; Tacitus, "Hist." v. 12). This step must have materially weakened John's power, especially as the Idumeans he had called to his aid were no longer in the city. The latter had murdered the high priest Anan b. Anan, a deed for permitting which John must be blamed; and Eleazar's defection proves that likewise after that event he did not hesitate to commit acts of violence. Circumstances almost justified John in seizing the dictatorship ("B. J." iv. 7, § 1; comp. 9, § 10).

The three parties in Jerusalem now fell upon one another. John fought both with Bar Giora and with Eleazar. He repulsed the followers of the former from the colonnades of the Temple; and the missiles that the Eleazarites hurled from the Temple he stopped by machines, in the construction of which he used even the timber that had been provided for alterations to the holy house (ib. v. 1, § 5; comp. vi. 3, § 2). On the occasion of the last Passover that the Jews ever celebrated in the Temple Eleazar admitted the country people into the building; but John's followers pressed in among them with concealed weapons and attacked them (ib. v. 3, § 1). When Eleazar disappeared from the scene, John took possession of the Temple. He now had 8,400 followers, including 2,400 Zealots. They burned the part of the city lying between the forces of John and those of Simon that they might be better able to fight; and John and Simon bar Giora did not unite until the Romans were at the gate. Then they so arranged matters that the followers of John defended the part of the wall at Antonia and the northern stoa of the Temple, while the followers of Simon defended the rest (ib. 7, § 3; comp. 9, § 2).

John's End.

When the engines were brought, John had from within undermined the space that was over against the tower of Antonia, as far as the banks themselves, and had supported the ground over the mine with beams laid across one another, whereby the Roman works stood upon an uncertain foundation. Then he ordered such materials to be brought in as were daubed over with pitch and bitumen and set them on fire; and as the cross-beams that supported the banks were burning, the ditch yielded on the sudden, and the banks were shaken down and fell into the ditch with a prodigious noise (ib. v. 11, § 4).

As the people had nothing more of which they could be robbed, John laid hands upon the vessels of the Temple. All being nearly lost, John was asked to surrender; but even now he reviled Josephus—who had been commissioned by Titus to make the demand—still hoping that the city would not be conquered. After the Temple fell John succeeded in escaping to the upper city, and when again asked to surrender he demanded free retreat with his arms. As this request was not granted the fighting was continued. In Elul, 70, the upper city also fell into the hands of the Romans: theleaders, however, did not surrender, but hid in subterranean passages. John was finally forced by hunger to give himself up to the Romans. Condemned to lifelong fetters, he was reserved for the Roman triumph of Titus, and he probably died in a prison at Rome (ib. vii. 5, § 3).

This is a catholic bible?

Whats a Catholic Bible.

Douay Rheims.

Google it.

Contains more "books" (scrolls) than the Protestants have.

 

[yiostheoy]

celebrate Christ-mass. Actually the Mass is the death of Christ, its all about the Eucharist, and we take the body of Christ (the holy Eucharist)and drink wine AKA his blood .

So Christmas and Christ mass are not the same thing, but in the 300's Dec 25th , the winter solstice, was to be celebrated as Jesus's birthday.

So as Jesus did say to the Samaritan woman, you worship what you do not know.

Not very linear.

Have you been nipping at sacrament wine again ??

What is your point ?? You don't have a point.

 

[yiostheoy]

I always thought Penelope was a Muslim.

You don't have to be Muslim to hate Jews.

Hate is a strong word.

Adolf and Himmler hated Jews but they were truly odd.

Otherwise I think it does require being muslim to hate Jews.

 

[Penelope]

celebrate Christ-mass. Actually the Mass is the death of Christ, its all about the Eucharist, and we take the body of Christ (the holy Eucharist)and drink wine AKA his blood .

So Christmas and Christ mass are not the same thing, but in the 300's Dec 25th , the winter solstice, was to be celebrated as Jesus's birthday.

So as Jesus did say to the Samaritan woman, you worship what you do not know.

Not very linear.

Have you been nipping at sacrament wine again ??

What is your point ?? You don't have a point.

This is my point:

​

​

 

[kjw47]

celebrate Christ-mass. Actually the Mass is the death of Christ, its all about the Eucharist, and we take the body of Christ (the holy Eucharist)and drink wine AKA his blood .

So Christmas and Christ mass are not the same thing, but in the 300's Dec 25th , the winter solstice, was to be celebrated as Jesus's birthday.

So as Jesus did say to the Samaritan woman, you worship what you do not know.

No offense, but do you really think anyone cares what a fake Catholic believes?

Well you should , because we gave you Christianity and also Christmas. Easter as well as the bible. So you really should care about the RCC and the Pope. You owe all your Christianity to them.

I have read many versions of the bible. Catholicism is far removed from God and his son. So are all of its 33,000 branches.

 

[Penelope]

Douay Rheims.

Google it.
Well we certainty know that Jesus was not who we think he was, since he was not born of a virgin, possibly a man named Jesus was a walking rabbi in those days, we know there were 2 Jesus's in the NT, Barabbas aka Jesus bar Abbas, and Jesus the Messiah. We also know who Simon and John were, and Simon reached his death in Rome and John spent his remaining days in prison in Rome.

Well we certainty know that Jesus was not who we think he was, since he was not born of a virgin, possibly a man named Jesus was a walking rabbi in those days, we know there were 2 Jesus's in the NT, Barabbas aka Jesus bar Abbas, and Jesus the Messiah. We also know who Simon and John were, and Simon reached his death in Rome and John spent his remaining days in prison in Rome.

Your proof is?

John at Jerusalem.

The second stage of John's activity began at Jerusalem. Here he persuaded the people that it was better to repulse the Romans from behind strong walls than to die to no purpose in the small towns of Galilee. His followers, several thousand strong, who passed in Jerusalem under the name of "Galileans," distinguished themselves by wild bravery; more than 2,000 men from Tiberias alone were in the city ("Vita," § 65). Josephus accuses them of plunder and rape. John made himself the tyrant of Jerusalem, then rent by parties; and to the end he remained a chief personage of the war. His head-quarters were at first on Ophel ("B. J." iv. 9, § 11); and from this position he forced the Zealots back into the Temple. He was joined by the Idumeans that had remained at Jerusalem. The peace party of Jerusalem now called Simon bar Giora and his army into the city; but this was to their detriment, as they now had two tyrants over them (ib. § 12; comp. ib. v. 13, § 1). Another party now arose, Eleazar b. Simon seceding from John's command and occupying the inner court of the Temple (ib. v. 1, § 2; Tacitus, "Hist." v. 12). This step must have materially weakened John's power, especially as the Idumeans he had called to his aid were no longer in the city. The latter had murdered the high priest Anan b. Anan, a deed for permitting which John must be blamed; and Eleazar's defection proves that likewise after that event he did not hesitate to commit acts of violence. Circumstances almost justified John in seizing the dictatorship ("B. J." iv. 7, § 1; comp. 9, § 10).

The three parties in Jerusalem now fell upon one another. John fought both with Bar Giora and with Eleazar. He repulsed the followers of the former from the colonnades of the Temple; and the missiles that the Eleazarites hurled from the Temple he stopped by machines, in the construction of which he used even the timber that had been provided for alterations to the holy house (ib. v. 1, § 5; comp. vi. 3, § 2). On the occasion of the last Passover that the Jews ever celebrated in the Temple Eleazar admitted the country people into the building; but John's followers pressed in among them with concealed weapons and attacked them (ib. v. 3, § 1). When Eleazar disappeared from the scene, John took possession of the Temple. He now had 8,400 followers, including 2,400 Zealots. They burned the part of the city lying between the forces of John and those of Simon that they might be better able to fight; and John and Simon bar Giora did not unite until the Romans were at the gate. Then they so arranged matters that the followers of John defended the part of the wall at Antonia and the northern stoa of the Temple, while the followers of Simon defended the rest (ib. 7, § 3; comp. 9, § 2).

John's End.

When the engines were brought, John had from within undermined the space that was over against the tower of Antonia, as far as the banks themselves, and had supported the ground over the mine with beams laid across one another, whereby the Roman works stood upon an uncertain foundation. Then he ordered such materials to be brought in as were daubed over with pitch and bitumen and set them on fire; and as the cross-beams that supported the banks were burning, the ditch yielded on the sudden, and the banks were shaken down and fell into the ditch with a prodigious noise (ib. v. 11, § 4).

As the people had nothing more of which they could be robbed, John laid hands upon the vessels of the Temple. All being nearly lost, John was asked to surrender; but even now he reviled Josephus—who had been commissioned by Titus to make the demand—still hoping that the city would not be conquered. After the Temple fell John succeeded in escaping to the upper city, and when again asked to surrender he demanded free retreat with his arms. As this request was not granted the fighting was continued. In Elul, 70, the upper city also fell into the hands of the Romans: theleaders, however, did not surrender, but hid in subterranean passages. John was finally forced by hunger to give himself up to the Romans. Condemned to lifelong fetters, he was reserved for the Roman triumph of Titus, and he probably died in a prison at Rome (ib. vii. 5, § 3).

This is a catholic bible?

Whats a Catholic Bible.

Douay Rheims.

Google it.

Contains more "books" (scrolls) than the Protestants have.

I have it in my favorites, what about it?

 

[Penelope]

celebrate Christ-mass. Actually the Mass is the death of Christ, its all about the Eucharist, and we take the body of Christ (the holy Eucharist)and drink wine AKA his blood .

So Christmas and Christ mass are not the same thing, but in the 300's Dec 25th , the winter solstice, was to be celebrated as Jesus's birthday.

So as Jesus did say to the Samaritan woman, you worship what you do not know.

No offense, but do you really think anyone cares what a fake Catholic believes?

Well you should , because we gave you Christianity and also Christmas. Easter as well as the bible. So you really should care about the RCC and the Pope. You owe all your Christianity to them.

I have read many versions of the bible. Catholicism is far removed from God and his son. So are all of its 33,000 branches.

Well if not for Rome and the RCC you would have no Christianity.

 

[WillowTree]