Christian friends of gays and lesbians

[Sky Dancer]

I've traveled to India, Nepal, Thailand and Korea. What I am specifically addressing, is the LDS and Catholic Church's activism in defeating marriage equality in California. That directly impacted my life.

Ultimately, the blame has to fall to the voter. No matter what the Churches do by way of advocacy, the voters had a choice.

Ironically, the Obama candidacy hurt Prop 8.

It's always up to the voters. What I'm saying is LDS and RCC poured a ton of out of state money into California to defeat our state law. Christian activism impacted my life negatively.

 

[Steerpike]

I've traveled to India, Nepal, Thailand and Korea. What I am specifically addressing, is the LDS and Catholic Church's activism in defeating marriage equality in California. That directly impacted my life.

Ultimately, the blame has to fall to the voter. No matter what the Churches do by way of advocacy, the voters had a choice.

Ironically, the Obama candidacy hurt Prop 8.

It's always up to the voters. What I'm saying is LDS and RCC poured a ton of out of state money into California to defeat our state law. Christian activism impacted my life negatively.

Maybe. If I still lived there I'd favor letting it stand, but then I am in favor of gay marriage. But from what I read the Black community came out strongly against the law, and the Obama candidacy resulted in a higher number of black voters than usual.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

That's not what I said. What I said was that Christians in America negatively impact my life more than Muslims do.

You don't travel much, do you?

I've traveled to India, Nepal, Thailand and Korea. What I am specifically addressing, is the LDS and Catholic Church's activism in defeating marriage equality in California. That directly impacted my life.

Every time you step on a plane you are impacted by the actions of 20 Muslims. The fact that you cannot marry someone is only the result of Church activism if you ignore the fact that it is actually the result of a vote and the high turnout of blacks in that election. Or do you really think one of the most liberal states in the country was influenced by Mormons? Or that every Muslim in California voted no on Prop. 8?

I can understand your bitterness, and even sympathize with it, but you need to look at the world the way it actually is, and not through the lens of bitterness you are using. The fact is that same sex marriage has been voted down every single time it has been placed on the ballot anywhere in this country, even in states where Christians hold little power politically. Blaming only one religious group for this is ridiculous.

 

[manu1959]

Christians think homosexuality is wrong, immoral and sinful. That doesn't seem real friendly to me.

Sky, assuming all Christians think this is a bit close minded and judgemental, wouldn't you say?

Some of the nasty so called "Christians" that call gays names like Devients and such don't speak for many of us. And I'm betting a lot of them have skeletons in their closets that would shock a nun!

Did I say all Christians? I didn't mean to. If you don't think that homosexuality is immoral, wrong and sinful then how do you reconcile that with your Christianity?

so you can't be friends with any sinners.....must be lonely at your house.....

 

[Againsheila]

That's not what I said. What I said was that Christians in America negatively impact my life more than Muslims do.

You don't travel much, do you?

I've traveled to India, Nepal, Thailand and Korea. What I am specifically addressing, is the LDS and Catholic Church's activism in defeating marriage equality in California. That directly impacted my life.

You know, Sky, get over it. See a lawyer. You can have all the benefits of marriage without actually being married. You can have power of attorney, you can have medical power of attorney over your partner. You can make sure your partner inherits everything you have and makes any decisions on your behalf should you not be able to make them. Almost all companies today provide medical and retirement benefits to same sex couples.

You can even find a church that will give you a religious ceremony.

At this point, your gripe is almost a red herring.

Did you know that when I worked for United, they provided insurance for same sex couples who weren't married but would not do the same for heterosexual couples even though they'd been together for years and had kids?

Okay, fair enough, the heterosexuals could have gotten married, but they couldn't because one of them had left her ex and was still married to him and afraid to get a divorce as that would tell him where she was.

Life's not always fair. Get over it.

You want to complain about something? I have a 22 year old son that's still in diapers. That's something to complain about.

 

[Sky Dancer]

You don't travel much, do you?

I've traveled to India, Nepal, Thailand and Korea. What I am specifically addressing, is the LDS and Catholic Church's activism in defeating marriage equality in California. That directly impacted my life.

You know, Sky, get over it. See a lawyer. You can have all the benefits of marriage without actually being married. You can have power of attorney, you can have medical power of attorney over your partner. You can make sure your partner inherits everything you have and makes any decisions on your behalf should you not be able to make them. Almost all companies today provide medical and retirement benefits to same sex couples.

You can even find a church that will give you a religious ceremony.

At this point, your gripe is almost a red herring.

Did you know that when I worked for United, they provided insurance for same sex couples who weren't married but would not do the same for heterosexual couples even though they'd been together for years and had kids?

Okay, fair enough, the heterosexuals could have gotten married, but they couldn't because one of them had left her ex and was still married to him and afraid to get a divorce as that would tell him where she was.

Life's not always fair. Get over it.

You want to complain about something? I have a 22 year old son that's still in diapers. That's something to complain about.

You're right. You have much more to complain about than I do. Life's not always fair.

I am legally married. I was married in a Buddhist ceremony with the full support of my spiritual community.

I'm not giving up on marriage equality.

 

[Jeremy]

Christ is recorded as having given hundreds of instructions covering behavior and thought; but none of these dealt with same-sex sexual behavior. Jesus concentrated on a person's interactions with God and his fellow humans. He did tell the woman who committed adultery to go and sin no more. But that was the only time he is known to have commented on sexual morality. Jesus may have felt that a homosexual sexual orientation was not a matter worth commenting upon. Everything else concerning homosexuality and the Christian faith is just fallible dogma. Just a thought.

 

[Againsheila]

I've traveled to India, Nepal, Thailand and Korea. What I am specifically addressing, is the LDS and Catholic Church's activism in defeating marriage equality in California. That directly impacted my life.

You know, Sky, get over it. See a lawyer. You can have all the benefits of marriage without actually being married. You can have power of attorney, you can have medical power of attorney over your partner. You can make sure your partner inherits everything you have and makes any decisions on your behalf should you not be able to make them. Almost all companies today provide medical and retirement benefits to same sex couples.

You can even find a church that will give you a religious ceremony.

At this point, your gripe is almost a red herring.

Did you know that when I worked for United, they provided insurance for same sex couples who weren't married but would not do the same for heterosexual couples even though they'd been together for years and had kids?

Okay, fair enough, the heterosexuals could have gotten married, but they couldn't because one of them had left her ex and was still married to him and afraid to get a divorce as that would tell him where she was.

Life's not always fair. Get over it.

You want to complain about something? I have a 22 year old son that's still in diapers. That's something to complain about.

You're right. You have much more to complain about than I do. Life's not always fair.

I am legally married. I was married in a Buddhist ceremony with the full support of my spiritual community.

I'm not giving up on marriage equality.

Glad I could help. <Boy do I really hate winning the sob story comparisons game>

 

[lizzie]

Glad I could help. <Boy do I really hate winning the sob story comparisons game>

If it's a contest, may I join in?

 

[Againsheila]

Glad I could help. <Boy do I really hate winning the sob story comparisons game>

If it's a contest, may I join in?

Be my guest, but I warn you, I always win. <doggone it!>

 

[lizzie]

Glad I could help. <Boy do I really hate winning the sob story comparisons game>

If it's a contest, may I join in?

Be my guest, but I warn you, I always win. <doggone it!>

Wanna bet?

 

[Againsheila]

If it's a contest, may I join in?

Be my guest, but I warn you, I always win. <doggone it!>

Wanna bet?

As long as it's true, how much?

 

[lizzie]

Be my guest, but I warn you, I always win. <doggone it!>

Wanna bet?

As long as it's true, how much?

Hmm, it seems that the most valuable commodity around here is rep points. I bet that's against the rules though.

 

[mal]

Christians think homosexuality is wrong, immoral and sinful. That doesn't seem real friendly to me.

Christians are Friends with all kinds of Sinners...

Are you Asking if Christians Condone or Embrace Homosexuality?... Or should they?



peace...

 

[LuckyDan]

Let me ask you a very serious question...If our laws did not protect Gay Americans, what do you think Christians (not all, but some) would do to us? If there were no legal repercussions, what do you think some Churches would advocate be done to us?

What did Christians do to you before there were legal repercussions?

Killed us, locked us up, fired us from our jobs, kicked us out of churches, beat us up...

There were no legal repercussions for murder? When that was?

And of course federal employment law does not include homosexuals as a protected group.

Kicked you out of churches? Wrong, but illegal? Nnnnn no.

 

[asterism]

Christians think homosexuality is a sin. Buddhists don't. We have the same conduct precepts as a heterosexual.

I salute you for being friendly toward gays and trying to include the coworker who was shunned.

Not all Christians think homosexuality is a sin, and even those who do are able to be friends with them because being a sinner is just human nature.

Why such bigotry on your part?

What bigotry? Some Christians are gay friendly and some are not.

Modifying your previous broadbrush?

 

[asterism]

Christians think homosexuality is a sin. Buddhists don't. We have the same conduct precepts as a heterosexual.

I salute you for being friendly toward gays and trying to include the coworker who was shunned.

Isn't there a long tradition in Buddhism that teaches homosexuality is misconduct? That is in essence the same claim Christianity makes.

Yes. In some Buddhist countries they are not very open to homosexuals.

"Buddhist monks are expected to live lives of celibacy, meaning abstinance from any type of sex. There is no explicit rule prohibiting those with a homosexual orientation from monastic life. However, in the Vinaya, the Buddha is recorded as opposing the ordination of those who openly expressed cross-gender features or strong homosexual desires and actions . The Buddhist sacred texts do contain a great deal of instances of loving relationships between unmarried men, which some believe to have homoerotic overtones. No sexual contact is mentioned in these instances, however.

Lay Buddhists (those who live outside the monastery) are expected to adhere to Five Precepts, the third of which is a vow "not to engage in sexual misconduct." But what is sexual misconduct? Right and wrong behavior in Buddhism is generally determined by considerations such as the following:


•Universalibility principle - "How would I like it if someone did this to me?"
•Consequences - Does the act causes harm and regret (in oneself or others) or benefit and joy?
•Utilitarian principle - Will the act help or harm the attainment of goals (ultimately spiritual liberation)?
•Intention - Is the act motivated by love, generosity and understanding?
"Sexual misconduct" has thus traditionally been interpreted to include actions like coercive sex, sexual harassment, child molestation and adultery. As Homosexuality is not explicitly mentioned in any of the Buddha's sayings recorded in the Pali Canon (Tripitaka), most interpreters have taken this to mean that homosexuality should be evaluated in the same way as heterosexuality, in accordance with the above principles.

A Buddhist author of an article on homosexuality concludes:

In the case of the lay man and woman where there is mutual consent, where adultery is not involved and where the sexual act is an expression of love, respect, loyalty and warmth, it would not be breaking the third Precept. And it is the same when the two people are of the same gender. Likewise promiscuity, license and the disregard for the feelings of others would make a sexual act unskillful whether it be heterosexual or homosexual. All the principles we would use to evaluate a heterosexual relationship we would also use to evaluate a homosexual one. In Buddhism we could say that it is not the object of one's sexual desire that determines whether a sexual act is unskillful or not, but rather the quality of the emotions and intentions involved.

It is also worth noting that Buddhism does not traditionally place great value on procreation like many western religions. From the Buddhist viewpoint, being married with children is regarded as generally positive, but not compulsory (although social norms in various Buddhist countries often have different views.

Homosexuality and Buddhism - ReligionFacts

Are you a Buddhist?

 

[asterism]

That's not what I said. What I said was that Christians in America negatively impact my life more than Muslims do.

You don't travel much, do you?

I've traveled to India, Nepal, Thailand and Korea. What I am specifically addressing, is the LDS and Catholic Church's activism in defeating marriage equality in California. That directly impacted my life.

Perhaps you should have concentrated on Obama instead.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=73oZ_pe1MZ8]YouTube - Barack Obama on Gay Marriage[/ame]

Perhaps it's not the religious groups that were just as anti-Obama as they were anti-gay marriage, perhaps it was Obama and a core group of his own voters.

 

[rdean]

NOTHING. what do you think would be done to gays?

If some Christians had their way homosexuality would be criminalized and pathologized.

I don't think that's a valid argument since if some gays had their way Christianity would be criminalized and pathologized.

that's a fucking lie and you know it asswipe. The gays want to be left alone. That's all they want.

How many gays go out in gangs looking for Christians to beat up?

 

[bodecea]

Were these churches pro-Obama?

Nope.

Then how did Obama and Prop 8 both win in the same election?

Perhaps it's not as cut and dry as you suggest.

My goodness...are you not aware how a ballot works? One does NOT have to vote for Obama and Prop 8 on the same ballot....in fact, people can vote for nothing but Prop 8 or nothing but Obama. Amazing how that works.