Christian friends of gays and lesbians

[bodecea]

Nope.

Then how did Obama and Prop 8 both win in the same election?

Perhaps it's not as cut and dry as you suggest.

As I understand it, the Black vote came down heavily in favor of Prop 8.

That was a tactical error by those of us against Prop 8...will not happen again.

 

[bodecea]

What did Christians do to you before there were legal repercussions?

Killed us, locked us up, fired us from our jobs, kicked us out of churches, beat us up...

don't splatter yourself using that broad brush....

Broad brush? Do you deny these things have happened?

 

[rdean]

Killed us, locked us up, fired us from our jobs, kicked us out of churches, beat us up...

don't splatter yourself using that broad brush....

Broad brush? Do you deny these things have happened?

still happen

 

[Quantum Windbag]

You don't travel much, do you?

I've traveled to India, Nepal, Thailand and Korea. What I am specifically addressing, is the LDS and Catholic Church's activism in defeating marriage equality in California. That directly impacted my life.

You know, Sky, get over it. See a lawyer. You can have all the benefits of marriage without actually being married. You can have power of attorney, you can have medical power of attorney over your partner. You can make sure your partner inherits everything you have and makes any decisions on your behalf should you not be able to make them. Almost all companies today provide medical and retirement benefits to same sex couples.

You can even find a church that will give you a religious ceremony.

At this point, your gripe is almost a red herring.

Did you know that when I worked for United, they provided insurance for same sex couples who weren't married but would not do the same for heterosexual couples even though they'd been together for years and had kids?

Okay, fair enough, the heterosexuals could have gotten married, but they couldn't because one of them had left her ex and was still married to him and afraid to get a divorce as that would tell him where she was.

Life's not always fair. Get over it.

You want to complain about something? I have a 22 year old son that's still in diapers. That's something to complain about.

And I can send you a list of Christian churches who would be happy to sanctify your wedding if you want to get married in a church.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Christ is recorded as having given hundreds of instructions covering behavior and thought; but none of these dealt with same-sex sexual behavior. Jesus concentrated on a person's interactions with God and his fellow humans. He did tell the woman who committed adultery to go and sin no more. But that was the only time he is known to have commented on sexual morality. Jesus may have felt that a homosexual sexual orientation was not a matter worth commenting upon. Everything else concerning homosexuality and the Christian faith is just fallible dogma. Just a thought.

Someone else who almost gets the Bible right.

Amazing.

 

[asterism]

Nope.

Then how did Obama and Prop 8 both win in the same election?

Perhaps it's not as cut and dry as you suggest.

My goodness...are you not aware how a ballot works? One does NOT have to vote for Obama and Prop 8 on the same ballot....in fact, people can vote for nothing but Prop 8 or nothing but Obama. Amazing how that works.

Are you positing a theory here or just speculating? The numbers don't lie. Over a million Obama voters and 70% of black voters were in favor of both Obama and Prop 8. If you have some data that contradicts this, please post it.

Blaming some religious activist groups is convenient, but it certainly doesn't help a cause that you and I support. But go ahead and scapegoat religious people who may or may not vote for conservatives.

I didn't vote for the most recent administration to vehemently defend DOMA and I've made some pretty good gains in advocating in favor of gay marriage as the actual conservative position.

See, that's the problem with you leftists: you see enemies on the right, regardless of their views on your own personal issues. Too funny.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Then how did Obama and Prop 8 both win in the same election?

Perhaps it's not as cut and dry as you suggest.

As I understand it, the Black vote came down heavily in favor of Prop 8.

That was a tactical error by those of us against Prop 8...will not happen again.

You planning on excluding blacks from voting?

 

[asterism]

If some Christians had their way homosexuality would be criminalized and pathologized.

I don't think that's a valid argument since if some gays had their way Christianity would be criminalized and pathologized.

that's a fucking lie and you know it asswipe. The gays want to be left alone. That's all they want.

At least one of them wants to ban all organized religions.

How many gays go out in gangs looking for Christians to beat up?

non sequitur

Is that how you think? The only means to resistance is violence? How sad.

 

[asterism]

Then how did Obama and Prop 8 both win in the same election?

Perhaps it's not as cut and dry as you suggest.

As I understand it, the Black vote came down heavily in favor of Prop 8.

That was a tactical error by those of us against Prop 8...will not happen again.

Time will tell.

Gonna say "Don't vote for the guy who is against gay marriage?"

I doubt it.

 

[bodecea]

Then how did Obama and Prop 8 both win in the same election?

Perhaps it's not as cut and dry as you suggest.

My goodness...are you not aware how a ballot works? One does NOT have to vote for Obama and Prop 8 on the same ballot....in fact, people can vote for nothing but Prop 8 or nothing but Obama. Amazing how that works.

Are you positing a theory here or just speculating? The numbers don't lie. Over a million Obama voters and 70% of black voters were in favor of both Obama and Prop 8. If you have some data that contradicts this, please post it.

Blaming some religious activist groups is convenient, but it certainly doesn't help a cause that you and I support. But go ahead and scapegoat religious people who may or may not vote for conservatives.

I didn't vote for the most recent administration to vehemently defend DOMA and I've made some pretty good gains in advocating in favor of gay marriage as the actual conservative position.

See, that's the problem with you leftists: you see enemies on the right, regardless of their views on your own personal issues. Too funny.

You are right about black voters, but that is not what you said in the post I replied to...and I've already said that we are aware that the black vote was taken for granted...that mistake will not happen next time.

 

[bodecea]

As I understand it, the Black vote came down heavily in favor of Prop 8.

That was a tactical error by those of us against Prop 8...will not happen again.

You planning on excluding blacks from voting?

Of course not...why would you think that?

 

[cad]

That was a tactical error by those of us against Prop 8...will not happen again.

You planning on excluding blacks from voting?

Of course not...why would you think that?

why did you assume that blakcs would be for gay marriage? is it because you felt that anyone who has ever been discriminated against will automatically be for gay marriage?

 

[Steerpike]

You are right about black voters, but that is not what you said in the post I replied to...and I've already said that we are aware that the black vote was taken for granted...that mistake will not happen next time.

I doubt you'll see a substantial shift in the black vote next time, either.

What will help, though, is that you likely won't have nearly the turnout of black voters that you did when Obama was running. Unless you plan to try it again in 2012

 

[asterism]

My goodness...are you not aware how a ballot works? One does NOT have to vote for Obama and Prop 8 on the same ballot....in fact, people can vote for nothing but Prop 8 or nothing but Obama. Amazing how that works.

Are you positing a theory here or just speculating? The numbers don't lie. Over a million Obama voters and 70% of black voters were in favor of both Obama and Prop 8. If you have some data that contradicts this, please post it.

Blaming some religious activist groups is convenient, but it certainly doesn't help a cause that you and I support. But go ahead and scapegoat religious people who may or may not vote for conservatives.

I didn't vote for the most recent administration to vehemently defend DOMA and I've made some pretty good gains in advocating in favor of gay marriage as the actual conservative position.

See, that's the problem with you leftists: you see enemies on the right, regardless of their views on your own personal issues. Too funny.

You are right about black voters, but that is not what you said in the post I replied to...and I've already said that we are aware that the black vote was taken for granted...that mistake will not happen next time.

How so?

 

[bodecea]

As I understand it, the Black vote came down heavily in favor of Prop 8.

That was a tactical error by those of us against Prop 8...will not happen again.

Time will tell.

Gonna say "Don't vote for the guy who is against gay marriage?"

I doubt it.

Actually, in our November election NOM is backing Boxer's opponent....we will be bringing that out and what they stand for again and again....neighborhood polling, phone trees, etc.

 

[bodecea]

You planning on excluding blacks from voting?

Of course not...why would you think that?

why did you assume that blakcs would be for gay marriage? is it because you felt that anyone who has ever been discriminated against will automatically be for gay marriage?

Isn't it odd how that empathy doesn't follow thru....?

 

[Quantum Windbag]

That was a tactical error by those of us against Prop 8...will not happen again.

You planning on excluding blacks from voting?

Of course not...why would you think that?

Anyone who has enough brains to run a political campaign should know that blacks are homophobic. AIDS education for blacks focuses on that homophobia and how it negatively impacts the entire culture because black men won't admit to being homosexual, even if they are. There is no way to change that in time for another election, so the only way to deal with it would be to finagle them to not vote.

 

[bodecea]

You are right about black voters, but that is not what you said in the post I replied to...and I've already said that we are aware that the black vote was taken for granted...that mistake will not happen next time.

I doubt you'll see a substantial shift in the black vote next time, either.

What will help, though, is that you likely won't have nearly the turnout of black voters that you did when Obama was running. Unless you plan to try it again in 2012

Actually, with phone trees and more black leaders and celebs doing target commercials, phone trees, etc....I do predict a substantial shift. This is already being closely looked at...with post election polling, focus groups, etc.

 

[DiveCon]

You planning on excluding blacks from voting?

Of course not...why would you think that?

Anyone who has enough brains to run a political campaign should know that blacks are homophobic. AIDS education for blacks focuses on that homophobia and how it negatively impacts the entire culture because black men won't admit to being homosexual, even if they are. There is no way to change that in time for another election, so the only way to deal with it would be to finagle them to not vote.

black men wont admit to being homosexual????

got a tv? watch the next episode of real world on Mtv

 

[bodecea]

You don't travel much, do you?

I've traveled to India, Nepal, Thailand and Korea. What I am specifically addressing, is the LDS and Catholic Church's activism in defeating marriage equality in California. That directly impacted my life.

Not being supportive of marriage equality does not equate to hating homosexuals or being homophobic.
To me, marriage is a rite of the church. I do not think anyone except the church should be involved in the rite of marriage. That means if a church is "gay friendly" and wants to marry homosexuals, it should have every right to do so.

That is why I am for the idea of "civil unions". I realize it is just semantics, but to me, it leaves marriage in the church and allows the state to treat every citizen equally.

Immie

Simply not true....once you admit that, we can speak honestly on the issue.