Civil Servants Foment Civil Insurrection Against Trump

[longknife]

You are suggesting that each employee has an independent right to evaluate every instruction they are given and determine whether they should obey it or not.

No.

Well, yes. For example, in the military, we were specifically instructed to not obey illegal orders.

You want civil service employees to break the law just because a dictator tells them to.

That's not how the system works, nor how it should work.

Okay hotshot. When you were in the military (which I doubt) what were you told to do if you were given an "illegal" order?

 

[Claudette]

Figures you support oligarchy by un-elected twats.

What, you think Trump was "elected"? He lost by 3 million votes.

LMAO Who's POTUS dumbass???

For how long?

LMAO The next four to eight years.

 

[Iceweasel]

Nice authoritarian rant. You want loyalty to a dictator.

However, civil service employee take an oath to serve the nation, not the president, so you're failing on both a moral and legal level.

You fail on thinking on a regular basis. A bit defensive? Worried about your soft public sector job?

Anything done outside of your job description to interfere with OUR government should be cause for dismissal. Like the leftist teachers on strike. Or any teachers on strike.

Unions are a BIG part of the problem. They funnel dues into Democrat coffers like a money laundering operation. We pay government employees and their unions works against us without our ability to negotiate. That's patently unfair. They work for us, we are not here to provide for them.

 

[Iceweasel]

You are suggesting that each employee has an independent right to evaluate every instruction they are given and determine whether they should obey it or not.

No.

Well, yes. For example, in the military, we were specifically instructed to not obey illegal orders.

You want civil service employees to break the law just because a dictator tells them to.

That's not how the system works, nor how it should work.

Except that it's you guys stating what is legal or not. Where did you get your law degree?

 

[JoeB131]

No, he won in a landslide by the system we've always had.

No, he won barely in a system we've largely ignored because usually, the winner of the popular vote won.

Our mistake was when this happened in 2000, nobody said, "Shit, that bullshit is still around? We need to get rid of that!"

None of his orders are illegal, the 9th circuses ruling not-withstanding.

And civil servants don't get to decide which ideas are terrible or not, they are cogs in the machine, nothing more.

Gee, so you want them to all be like the guys in Nuremburg who were "only following orders"? Your thinking pretty much exonerated everyone invovled in World War II who wasn't Hitler!

Frankly, I want there to be guys who say, "This is wrong" when Trump does things that are immoral and illegal. So would you if the black guy had tried to do the same thing.

LMAO Who's POTUS dumbass???

He won't last out the year. seriously, you guys need to embrace your screwup.

You'll feel better.

 

[JoeB131]

Also, he's a shitty manager who doesn't know how to inspire people.

But you all keep embracing him.

Your last statement nullifies the first!

Not really. You MAGA idiots aren't the ones doing the work.

When you have a whole civil service that is outright trying to sabotage you because they think you're an asshole, you are probably doing the management thing wrong.

Trump is finding out that running a country is different than running a fake game show.

NO, they are violating their oath and deserve to be purged. At least.

Wow. Not even a month in and the Nazi Lovers are talking about Purges.

 

[JoeB131]

Okay hotshot. When you were in the military (which I doubt) what were you told to do if you were given an "illegal" order?

What you are told to do and what people end up doing are two different things.

War Crime Trials are the winners punishing the losers. Winners never get charged with war crimes.

Shit, Rusty Calley only spent a year in prison.

 

[martybegan]

No, he won in a landslide by the system we've always had.

No, he won barely in a system we've largely ignored because usually, the winner of the popular vote won.

Our mistake was when this happened in 2000, nobody said, "Shit, that bullshit is still around? We need to get rid of that!"

None of his orders are illegal, the 9th circuses ruling not-withstanding.

And civil servants don't get to decide which ideas are terrible or not, they are cogs in the machine, nothing more.

Gee, so you want them to all be like the guys in Nuremburg who were "only following orders"? Your thinking pretty much exonerated everyone invovled in World War II who wasn't Hitler!

Frankly, I want there to be guys who say, "This is wrong" when Trump does things that are immoral and illegal. So would you if the black guy had tried to do the same thing.

LMAO Who's POTUS dumbass???

He won't last out the year. seriously, you guys need to embrace your screwup.

You'll feel better.

That only applies if his orders are illegal, and they are not. Plus, what they get to do is refuse the order, and resign, not leak the order and try to subvert him. If they truly feel the strength of their convictions, do so publicly and resign or be fired.

And for your regrettably predictable Nazi reference:

 

[Wry Catcher]

The faceless, almost unaccountable, entrenched bureaucrats who live in their own little worlds, ruled by the insatiable hunger for advancement – at all costs. They are everywhere at all levels of government from local to The White House.

Federal employees have decided they’re the 4th branch of government and if you can believe the opposition media, they intend to do what they can to make the Trump presidency a failure. As Steven Hayward has written, “That bureaucratic government is the partisan instrument of the Democratic Party is the most obvious, yet least remarked upon, trait of our time.”

This is why it’s not surprising the New York Times writes, “Across the vast federal bureaucracy, Donald J. Trump’s arrival in the White House has spread anxiety, frustration, fear and resistance among many of the two million nonpolitical civil servants who say they work for the public, not a particular president.”

The author has hit the nail on the head – to use an over worked adage. The only way to change this is for Congress to make some major changes to the Civil Service laws and to enact a law barring unions from representing government employees. Until that time, there is little upper level managers can do much to actually “drain the swamp.”

Oh yes, they infect the legislative and judicial branches as well.

Full essay @ Civil Servants Foment Civil Insurrection Against Trump

Upper management works with not against power, and policies are developed which provide upper management with the tools to discipline those who choose to violate them. As a former member of a government agency and a member of the upper management the premise in this thread is utter bullshit.

Anyone with some knowledge of US History / civil service and personnel (HR) understands this thread is nothing more than an excuse for the disaster underway in The District, lead by the absolute incompetence of the President of the United States and a Congress divided by ambition, ideology and a lack of competent leadership.

 

[Wry Catcher]

Nice authoritarian rant. You want loyalty to a dictator.

However, civil service employee take an oath to serve the nation, not the president, so you're failing on both a moral and legal level.

The government is to be run by the president. Civil service workers must follow his directives.

Federal employees take the same oath of office as Congress, by which they swear to support and defend the Constitution of the United States of America. ... All officers of the seven Uniformed services of the United States take swear or affirm an oath of office upon commissioning.
The Oaths of Office | Two Thirds of Us

They swear to obey the lawful orders of those appointed above them as well. Leaking is a criminal activity subject to court proceedings as well as termination.

Not absolutely true, there are legal protections for whistle blowers who stand up and say, "enough". The manner in which Trump has lead the nation in a few short weeks is intolerable to many; those who choose to follow are heading for a cliff leading to the rocks and sea below.

Real patriots put flag and country before any politician; if chaos continues the movement to resist Trump and his government by fiat - the arbitrary decrees and pronouncements (EO's) by the President - and his inner circle such as Miller & Bannon, who believe he and they have the absolute authority to enforce it will continue to grow.

 

[Iceweasel]

The faceless, almost unaccountable, entrenched bureaucrats who live in their own little worlds, ruled by the insatiable hunger for advancement – at all costs. They are everywhere at all levels of government from local to The White House.

Federal employees have decided they’re the 4th branch of government and if you can believe the opposition media, they intend to do what they can to make the Trump presidency a failure. As Steven Hayward has written, “That bureaucratic government is the partisan instrument of the Democratic Party is the most obvious, yet least remarked upon, trait of our time.”

This is why it’s not surprising the New York Times writes, “Across the vast federal bureaucracy, Donald J. Trump’s arrival in the White House has spread anxiety, frustration, fear and resistance among many of the two million nonpolitical civil servants who say they work for the public, not a particular president.”

The author has hit the nail on the head – to use an over worked adage. The only way to change this is for Congress to make some major changes to the Civil Service laws and to enact a law barring unions from representing government employees. Until that time, there is little upper level managers can do much to actually “drain the swamp.”

Oh yes, they infect the legislative and judicial branches as well.

Full essay @ Civil Servants Foment Civil Insurrection Against Trump

Upper management works with not against power, and policies are developed which provide upper management with the tools to discipline those who choose to violate them. As a former member of a government agency and a member of the upper management the premise in this thread is utter bullshit.

Anyone with some knowledge of US History / civil service and personnel (HR) understands this thread is nothing more than an excuse for the disaster underway in The District, lead by the absolute incompetence of the President of the United States and a Congress divided by ambition, ideology and a lack of competent leadership.

You're hitting the bottle early I see. Yep, you're a government lackey, your posts reek of it. Highly opinionated, arrogant and quite full of yourself. I've known many like you.

The fact that leaks are occurring on a regular basis should speak to you, but it can't. Today we have government employees shutting down schools to make a political statement. That's not their job. They do it because the system is rigged. In the private sector you are accountable for every move. In government work the union protects you at almost all costs.

I worked the VA hospital system for a while and some people should have been let go but unfortunately the people have taken a back seat to providing a really great job with lots of benefits at our expense.

 

[Iceweasel]

Not absolutely true, there are legal protections for whistle blowers who stand up and say, "enough". The manner in which Trump has lead the nation in a few short weeks is intolerable to many;

Of course, their brains are probably boiling over in frustration. Liberals lost a lot of power, the SCOTUS alone will be huge huge setback. And I do hope Trump can get the laws changed to throw those leftist asshole on the streets.

Most will be unemployable in the private sector except perhaps the fast food industry but machines are quickly taking over.

 

[rightwinger]

The faceless, almost unaccountable, entrenched bureaucrats who live in their own little worlds, ruled by the insatiable hunger for advancement – at all costs. They are everywhere at all levels of government from local to The White House.

Federal employees have decided they’re the 4th branch of government and if you can believe the opposition media, they intend to do what they can to make the Trump presidency a failure. As Steven Hayward has written, “That bureaucratic government is the partisan instrument of the Democratic Party is the most obvious, yet least remarked upon, trait of our time.”

This is why it’s not surprising the New York Times writes, “Across the vast federal bureaucracy, Donald J. Trump’s arrival in the White House has spread anxiety, frustration, fear and resistance among many of the two million nonpolitical civil servants who say they work for the public, not a particular president.”

The author has hit the nail on the head – to use an over worked adage. The only way to change this is for Congress to make some major changes to the Civil Service laws and to enact a law barring unions from representing government employees. Until that time, there is little upper level managers can do much to actually “drain the swamp.”

Oh yes, they infect the legislative and judicial branches as well.

Full essay @ Civil Servants Foment Civil Insurrection Against Trump

I spent 33 years as a federal employee from Carter to Obama

Presidents come and go and you continue to do your job. Trumps biggest obstacle is that Federal Employees know the law and regulations better than he does. They also have whistle blower protections to report when those laws are broken

 

[martybegan]

The faceless, almost unaccountable, entrenched bureaucrats who live in their own little worlds, ruled by the insatiable hunger for advancement – at all costs. They are everywhere at all levels of government from local to The White House.

Federal employees have decided they’re the 4th branch of government and if you can believe the opposition media, they intend to do what they can to make the Trump presidency a failure. As Steven Hayward has written, “That bureaucratic government is the partisan instrument of the Democratic Party is the most obvious, yet least remarked upon, trait of our time.”

This is why it’s not surprising the New York Times writes, “Across the vast federal bureaucracy, Donald J. Trump’s arrival in the White House has spread anxiety, frustration, fear and resistance among many of the two million nonpolitical civil servants who say they work for the public, not a particular president.”

The author has hit the nail on the head – to use an over worked adage. The only way to change this is for Congress to make some major changes to the Civil Service laws and to enact a law barring unions from representing government employees. Until that time, there is little upper level managers can do much to actually “drain the swamp.”

Oh yes, they infect the legislative and judicial branches as well.

Full essay @ Civil Servants Foment Civil Insurrection Against Trump

I spent 33 years as a federal employee from Carter to Obama

Presidents come and go and you continue to do your job. Trumps biggest obstacle is that Federal Employees know the law and regulations better than he does. They also have whistle blower protections to report when those laws are broken

so what laws have been broken so far?

 

[rightwinger]

The faceless, almost unaccountable, entrenched bureaucrats who live in their own little worlds, ruled by the insatiable hunger for advancement – at all costs. They are everywhere at all levels of government from local to The White House.

Federal employees have decided they’re the 4th branch of government and if you can believe the opposition media, they intend to do what they can to make the Trump presidency a failure. As Steven Hayward has written, “That bureaucratic government is the partisan instrument of the Democratic Party is the most obvious, yet least remarked upon, trait of our time.”

This is why it’s not surprising the New York Times writes, “Across the vast federal bureaucracy, Donald J. Trump’s arrival in the White House has spread anxiety, frustration, fear and resistance among many of the two million nonpolitical civil servants who say they work for the public, not a particular president.”

The author has hit the nail on the head – to use an over worked adage. The only way to change this is for Congress to make some major changes to the Civil Service laws and to enact a law barring unions from representing government employees. Until that time, there is little upper level managers can do much to actually “drain the swamp.”

Oh yes, they infect the legislative and judicial branches as well.

Full essay @ Civil Servants Foment Civil Insurrection Against Trump

I spent 33 years as a federal employee from Carter to Obama

Presidents come and go and you continue to do your job. Trumps biggest obstacle is that Federal Employees know the law and regulations better than he does. They also have whistle blower protections to report when those laws are broken

so what laws have been broken so far?

I see Trumps biggest problem coming from environmental, immigration and labor

 

[Harry Dresden]

The faceless, almost unaccountable, entrenched bureaucrats who live in their own little worlds, ruled by the insatiable hunger for advancement – at all costs. They are everywhere at all levels of government from local to The White House.

Federal employees have decided they’re the 4th branch of government and if you can believe the opposition media, they intend to do what they can to make the Trump presidency a failure. As Steven Hayward has written, “That bureaucratic government is the partisan instrument of the Democratic Party is the most obvious, yet least remarked upon, trait of our time.”

This is why it’s not surprising the New York Times writes, “Across the vast federal bureaucracy, Donald J. Trump’s arrival in the White House has spread anxiety, frustration, fear and resistance among many of the two million nonpolitical civil servants who say they work for the public, not a particular president.”

The author has hit the nail on the head – to use an over worked adage. The only way to change this is for Congress to make some major changes to the Civil Service laws and to enact a law barring unions from representing government employees. Until that time, there is little upper level managers can do much to actually “drain the swamp.”

Oh yes, they infect the legislative and judicial branches as well.

Full essay @ Civil Servants Foment Civil Insurrection Against Trump

I spent 33 years as a federal employee from Carter to Obama

Presidents come and go and you continue to do your job. Trumps biggest obstacle is that Federal Employees know the law and regulations better than he does. They also have whistle blower protections to report when those laws are broken

Presidents come and go and you continue to do your job.
yep......thats about it right there.....

 

[rightwinger]

I am seeing a trend from our new president

First he has tried to turn the public against a free press
Now, he is turning on federal employees and proclaiming them to be an enemy

 

[martybegan]

I am seeing a trend from our new president

First he has tried to turn the public against a free press
Now, he is turning on federal employees and proclaiming them to be an enemy

I noticed you used the term "free" press, and not neutral or unbiased press. Trump isn't against a free press. He hasn't shut any offices down, or blacked out any websites. He is fighting back against a partisan media.

If only the media had the courage to admit its partisanship while it was fighting back.

 

[martybegan]

The faceless, almost unaccountable, entrenched bureaucrats who live in their own little worlds, ruled by the insatiable hunger for advancement – at all costs. They are everywhere at all levels of government from local to The White House.

Federal employees have decided they’re the 4th branch of government and if you can believe the opposition media, they intend to do what they can to make the Trump presidency a failure. As Steven Hayward has written, “That bureaucratic government is the partisan instrument of the Democratic Party is the most obvious, yet least remarked upon, trait of our time.”

This is why it’s not surprising the New York Times writes, “Across the vast federal bureaucracy, Donald J. Trump’s arrival in the White House has spread anxiety, frustration, fear and resistance among many of the two million nonpolitical civil servants who say they work for the public, not a particular president.”

The author has hit the nail on the head – to use an over worked adage. The only way to change this is for Congress to make some major changes to the Civil Service laws and to enact a law barring unions from representing government employees. Until that time, there is little upper level managers can do much to actually “drain the swamp.”

Oh yes, they infect the legislative and judicial branches as well.

Full essay @ Civil Servants Foment Civil Insurrection Against Trump

I spent 33 years as a federal employee from Carter to Obama

Presidents come and go and you continue to do your job. Trumps biggest obstacle is that Federal Employees know the law and regulations better than he does. They also have whistle blower protections to report when those laws are broken

so what laws have been broken so far?

I see Trumps biggest problem coming from environmental, immigration and labor

So, no laws have been broken so far?

 

[rightwinger]

The faceless, almost unaccountable, entrenched bureaucrats who live in their own little worlds, ruled by the insatiable hunger for advancement – at all costs. They are everywhere at all levels of government from local to The White House.

Federal employees have decided they’re the 4th branch of government and if you can believe the opposition media, they intend to do what they can to make the Trump presidency a failure. As Steven Hayward has written, “That bureaucratic government is the partisan instrument of the Democratic Party is the most obvious, yet least remarked upon, trait of our time.”

This is why it’s not surprising the New York Times writes, “Across the vast federal bureaucracy, Donald J. Trump’s arrival in the White House has spread anxiety, frustration, fear and resistance among many of the two million nonpolitical civil servants who say they work for the public, not a particular president.”

The author has hit the nail on the head – to use an over worked adage. The only way to change this is for Congress to make some major changes to the Civil Service laws and to enact a law barring unions from representing government employees. Until that time, there is little upper level managers can do much to actually “drain the swamp.”

Oh yes, they infect the legislative and judicial branches as well.

Full essay @ Civil Servants Foment Civil Insurrection Against Trump

I spent 33 years as a federal employee from Carter to Obama

Presidents come and go and you continue to do your job. Trumps biggest obstacle is that Federal Employees know the law and regulations better than he does. They also have whistle blower protections to report when those laws are broken

so what laws have been broken so far?

I see Trumps biggest problem coming from environmental, immigration and labor

So, no laws have been broken so far?

Beats me....how about you show any attempt by federal employees to obstruct Trump or ignore his directions?
That is not the way civil service works. You follow the direction of your superiors including the President. But you also swear to the same vow to uphold the Constitution. Trump is treading a fine line with his directions to the federal workforce. If he presents an order in conflict with existing laws and regulations, employees are required to follow the law