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Not knowing all the answers STILL doen't mean that everything was made by an invisible superbeing in another dimension that no one has ever seen. That's not a logical conclusion, in an otherwise logical universe.
Again I see that reading concepts that don't exist into specific posts hasn't changed either. Please show me in the specific post above where I claimed supernatural causes. You won't find it so again you are with the strawman. I am assuming your post above, and NP's as well, was intended for the bully Hawly since it is she who made the claim "every discovery by science has been shown to have a natural caus...."
This is a lie, with not one shred of evidence to back it up, as pointed out in my post above. You have chosen to infer the rest.
Name one discovery by science that has a known supernatural cause, please. I would love to know.
Again I see that reading concepts that don't exist into specific posts hasn't changed either. Please show me in the specific post above where I claimed supernatural causes. You won't find it so again you are with the strawman. I am assuming your post above, and NP's as well, was intended for the bully Hawly since it is she who made the claim "every discovery by science has been shown to have a natural caus...."
This is a lie, with not one shred of evidence to back it up, as pointed out in my post above. You have chosen to infer the rest.
Name one discovery by science that has a known supernatural cause, please. I would love to know.
I've asked that same question on several occasions only to be met with the standard fundie pattern of behavior to stutter, mumble and launch into a tirade of calling people liars.
I've never known a single, verifiable discovery in science that had a supernatural underpinning.
Why can't the fundies be honest and present evidence for their supernatural, supermagical realms?
Not knowing all the answers STILL doen't mean that everything was made by an invisible superbeing in another dimension that no one has ever seen. That's not a logical conclusion, in an otherwise logical universe.
Again I see that reading concepts that don't exist into specific posts hasn't changed either. Please show me in the specific post above where I claimed supernatural causes. You won't find it so again you are with the strawman. I am assuming your post above, and NP's as well, was intended for the bully Hawly since it is she who made the claim "every discovery by science has been shown to have a natural caus...."
This is a lie, with not one shred of evidence to back it up, as pointed out in my post above. You have chosen to infer the rest.
Name one discovery by science that has a known supernatural cause, please. I would love to know.
Not to imply that your anti-reason paradigm is in any way valid, but bhere's a whole world out there that runs on a natural process called chemistry. Perhaps you've heard of it?In the end, evidence, proof, valid logic, are all meaningless terms to him, to all Creationists in fact. It's just a better, and more useful expenditure of your time to expose them for the intellectually dishonest superstitious retards that they are; to point out vividly their intellectual and moral cretinism to children and those with childish intellects, so the Creationists' vain, mendacious, anti-reason, reality-denying hubris doesn't spread and kill every hope for a decent, thoughtful, just, and peaceful society.
The only retards are the last three posters with terrible reading comprehension problems. Hollie's statement is a lie, and your materialist religion has blinded you to the foolishness of her lie. You speak of faith, but it is your faith that allows to to believe that the things I mentioned in my post have a natural cause, because you don't have a single shred of scientific evidence to prove otherwise. So it is by faith you believe, absent from any facts. This is where I ask you to put up or shut up for even one of the items, let's say, DNA for instance. Please show me the scientific "evidence" for a natural cause. I'm not talking about the "just so", "might have", "could have" evolution stories, but real, experimentally verifiable evidence for DNA's natural cause.
This is the point the crickets start chirping.
every discovery? You're funny! Like DNA and human consciousness. Please show me DNA's natural cause? The cell's natural cause? Gravity's natural cause? The cause of the universe? Yep Hollie you have it ALL figured out.
Not knowing all the answers STILL doen't mean that everything was made by an invisible superbeing in another dimension that no one has ever seen. That's not a logical conclusion, in an otherwise logical universe.
Again I see that reading concepts that don't exist into specific posts hasn't changed either. Please show me in the specific post above where I claimed supernatural causes. You won't find it so again you are with the strawman. I am assuming your post above, and NP's as well, was intended for the bully Hawly since it is she who made the claim "every discovery by science has been shown to have a natural caus...."
This is a lie, with not one shred of evidence to back it up, as pointed out in my post above. You have chosen to infer the rest.
Yes. The reality of thought is axiomatic; denying that thought exists is an application of the "stolen concept fallacy.""It is self-evident that no number of men, by conspiring, and calling themselves a government, can acquire any rights whatever over other men, or other men's property, which they had not before, as individuals. And whenever any number of men, calling themselves a government, do anything to another man, or to his property, which they had no right to do as individuals, they thereby declare themselves trespassers, robbers, or murderers, according to the nature of their acts." -Lysander Spooner.
Foolish Loki. What are these so called "rights" that you speak of. And just where do these imaginary rights come from? Can we do a scientific experiment to verify they exists? Can we somehow measure your imaginary "rights"? Since your religion teaches matter is the only reality, how do we give birth to a thought? What is an idea? Can you prove it exists?
And as far as "rights" are concerned: if there are no rights at all, Spooner's assertion remains valid.
So then Ultimatereality, while we're playing with dopey rhetoric, what feature of "ultimate reality" is "actual reality" is missing that prevents "actual reality" from being the "ultimate reality"?
So did Noah have dinosaurs on the ark?
And if the world was flooded for 40 days, how did the plants survive?
Yes. The reality of thought is axiomatic; denying that thought exists is an application of the "stolen concept fallacy."Foolish Loki. What are these so called "rights" that you speak of. And just where do these imaginary rights come from? Can we do a scientific experiment to verify they exists? Can we somehow measure your imaginary "rights"? Since your religion teaches matter is the only reality, how do we give birth to a thought? What is an idea? Can you prove it exists?
And as far as "rights" are concerned: if there are no rights at all, Spooner's assertion remains valid.
So then Ultimatereality, while we're playing with dopey rhetoric, what feature of "ultimate reality" is "actual reality" is missing that prevents "actual reality" from being the "ultimate reality"?
Your question is foolish because actual reality and ultimate reality should be the same thing. But to further engage in your ignorance, and assuming your incorrect definition of so called "actual" reality, it is not what's missing. It is what is present. Human prejudice and perception are the impediment to knowing ultimate reality. Only the Architect ultimately knows what is really real. Can you hold gravity in your hand? Can you see it with your own eyes? No you can't, but you can see the effect of it. So basically you believe in an invisible force because you can study its effects. Yet we are no closer, even with the super hardon collider, to understanding the first thing about gravity other than rules on how it operates. I see the effects of another Invisible Force and can know It exists.
So did Noah have dinosaurs on the ark?
And if the world was flooded for 40 days, how did the plants survive?
Is this question directed at me? I am not a young earth Creationist. But I will answer your question if you can answer mine. How did the first cell originate?
Not knowing all the answers STILL doen't mean that everything was made by an invisible superbeing in another dimension that no one has ever seen. That's not a logical conclusion, in an otherwise logical universe.
Again I see that reading concepts that don't exist into specific posts hasn't changed either. Please show me in the specific post above where I claimed supernatural causes. You won't find it so again you are with the strawman. I am assuming your post above, and NP's as well, was intended for the bully Hawly since it is she who made the claim "every discovery by science has been shown to have a natural caus...."
This is a lie, with not one shred of evidence to back it up, as pointed out in my post above. You have chosen to infer the rest.
I have a question: is everything in the universe a natural product? Yes? Then anything they affect makes it a natural cause. In other words, there are no un-natural elements in the universe, so no un-natural causes either.
Again I see that reading concepts that don't exist into specific posts hasn't changed either. Please show me in the specific post above where I claimed supernatural causes. You won't find it so again you are with the strawman. I am assuming your post above, and NP's as well, was intended for the bully Hawly since it is she who made the claim "every discovery by science has been shown to have a natural caus...."
This is a lie, with not one shred of evidence to back it up, as pointed out in my post above. You have chosen to infer the rest.
Name one discovery by science that has a known supernatural cause, please. I would love to know.
I've never known a single, verifiable discovery in science that had a supernatural underpinning.
You are so foolish.Name one discovery by science that has a known supernatural cause, please. I would love to know.
I've asked that same question on several occasions only to be met with the standard fundie pattern of behavior to stutter, mumble and launch into a tirade of calling people liars.
I've never known a single, verifiable discovery in science that had a supernatural underpinning.
Why can't the fundies be honest and present evidence for their supernatural, supermagical realms?
If one can believe that saying some magic phrases to an invisible gray-bearded angry old man can make you rich and healthy and beautiful then one can believe humans rode dinosaurs back in the day.
Sure- why not?
Regards from Rosie
Pick up a book!! Any book!!! And expand your worldview.Yes. The reality of thought is axiomatic; denying that thought exists is an application of the "stolen concept fallacy."
And as far as "rights" are concerned: if there are no rights at all, Spooner's assertion remains valid.
So then Ultimatereality, while we're playing with dopey rhetoric, what feature of "ultimate reality" is "actual reality" is missing that prevents "actual reality" from being the "ultimate reality"?
Your question is foolish because actual reality and ultimate reality should be the same thing. But to further engage in your ignorance, and assuming your incorrect definition of so called "actual" reality, it is not what's missing. It is what is present. Human prejudice and perception are the impediment to knowing ultimate reality. Only the Architect ultimately knows what is really real. Can you hold gravity in your hand? Can you see it with your own eyes? No you can't, but you can see the effect of it. So basically you believe in an invisible force because you can study its effects. Yet we are no closer, even with the super hardon collider, to understanding the first thing about gravity other than rules on how it operates. I see the effects of another Invisible Force and can know It exists.
Just because we haven't figured out the why and how of gravity doesn't mean it was invented by an invisible superbeing in another dimension that no one has ever seen or been to?
So did Noah have dinosaurs on the ark?
And if the world was flooded for 40 days, how did the plants survive?
Is this question directed at me? I am not a young earth Creationist. But I will answer your question if you can answer mine. How did the first cell originate?
Is an explanation from Berkeley ok?
Evolution 101: From Soup to Cells - the Origin of Life
Again I see that reading concepts that don't exist into specific posts hasn't changed either. Please show me in the specific post above where I claimed supernatural causes. You won't find it so again you are with the strawman. I am assuming your post above, and NP's as well, was intended for the bully Hawly since it is she who made the claim "every discovery by science has been shown to have a natural caus...."
This is a lie, with not one shred of evidence to back it up, as pointed out in my post above. You have chosen to infer the rest.
I have a question: is everything in the universe a natural product? Yes? Then anything they affect makes it a natural cause. In other words, there are no un-natural elements in the universe, so no un-natural causes either.
No. Everything in the universe does not have a natural cause including the universe itself. You are spewing your religious Dogma as if it is fact. It's called Materialism and the teaching of your religion that matter is the only reality, as stated above. You religion does not alleviate you from the burden of scientific proof when Hollie makes the bogus Materialist claim above that EVERY discovery has a natural cause. Prove it!! Show me by scientific method, how the first information in the DNA digital code originated and replicate the process in a laboratory.
This is the point where Hollie spews the same tired rhetoric of "Turtles all the way down" regarding who made God. The causal relationship is only valid for entities with a beginning. It is a widely held scientific belief the universe had a beginning, therefore, it must have had a cause. Since that cause could not have been "natural", the answer to Ima's question is a resounding "NO!", unless of course Ima, you believe in a supernatural force, that is, one outside of nature or the known universe.
The Judeo-Christian God claimed his name was "I AM". He has always existed, infinitely in the past. He has no beginning and therefore, no necessity of a cause.
You exempt your gods from the same "scientific evidence" you demand of others.Is this question directed at me? I am not a young earth Creationist. But I will answer your question if you can answer mine. How did the first cell originate?
Is an explanation from Berkeley ok?
Evolution 101: From Soup to Cells - the Origin of Life
If you are willing to fall for it. What a joke!!!!
I was talking about scientific evidence that can be replicated in a laboratory. Not "just so" stories and "might have" or "could have" hypothesis.
Please tell me you are not foolish enough to buy this as REAL SCIENCE?
Your question is foolish because actual reality and ultimate reality should be the same thing. But to further engage in your ignorance, and assuming your incorrect definition of so called "actual" reality, it is not what's missing. It is what is present. Human prejudice and perception are the impediment to knowing ultimate reality. Only the Architect ultimately knows what is really real. Can you hold gravity in your hand? Can you see it with your own eyes? No you can't, but you can see the effect of it. So basically you believe in an invisible force because you can study its effects. Yet we are no closer, even with the super hardon collider, to understanding the first thing about gravity other than rules on how it operates. I see the effects of another Invisible Force and can know It exists.
Just because we haven't figured out the why and how of gravity doesn't mean it was invented by an invisible superbeing in another dimension that no one has ever seen or been to?
So how can you claim with absolute 100% certainty it is natural? Prove it.
I've asked that same question on several occasions only to be met with the standard fundie pattern of behavior to stutter, mumble and launch into a tirade of calling people liars.
I've never known a single, verifiable discovery in science that had a supernatural underpinning.
Why can't the fundies be honest and present evidence for their supernatural, supermagical realms?
If one can believe that saying some magic phrases to an invisible gray-bearded angry old man can make you rich and healthy and beautiful then one can believe humans rode dinosaurs back in the day.
Sure- why not?
Regards from Rosie
Wow, this is right up there with one of the most ignorant statements yet!!!
Name one discovery by science that has a known supernatural cause, please. I would love to know.
I've never known a single, verifiable discovery in science that had a supernatural underpinning.
So we are to assume that because you don't know it, it doesn't exist?
Please explain to me what caused the universe?
