Cross Removed! Town avoids lawsuit and follows the law

[Preacher]

http://www.indystar.com/story/news/...n-removes-cross-town-christmas-tree/95347796/

VICTORY! How many times we have to go over this. GOVERNMENT in any form may NOT endorse a religion including putting up a religious symbol.

Keep going for victories like this, and you will keep losing at the ballot box.

Lol I voted for Trump.

christian cross on a christmas tree the TOWN that ALL residents pay taxes to. Yep endorsement of religion but government entity.

Very sad that some people are so hateful. I'll say a prayer for you. Bye.

Nothing hateful about following the law and not wanting others religion jammed down our throats. I don't push my religion on anyone I expect the same

There are many who hate this country's history and traditions.

Indeed but this has nothing to do with history or tradition. MANY of our founders were non believers or agnostics. They specifically stated in 1st amendment that no government endorsed religion.

Well this is enforced atheism, so someone's religion IS being forced on everyone else.

Lol no its not.

There are many who hate this country's history and traditions.

Traditions are wonderful......(some of them)....but why should government (our taxes) pay for religious ones?

So if the people of the town paid for the cross, and then put it up there on their own, you would be OK with it?

Nope. Because the Tree is 1. Bought by the city 2. On CITY property which means its STILL something taxpayers pay for. People want a cross then put it on THEIR trees in their homes and put them in your businesses windows etc.

Then why is the tree acceptable to you and supposed defenders of the "wall"

Because the tree is NOT a religious symbol. Its just a tree.

 

[martybegan]

Very sad that some people are so hateful. I'll say a prayer for you. Bye.

Nothing hateful about following the law and not wanting others religion jammed down our throats. I don't push my religion on anyone I expect the same

There are many who hate this country's history and traditions.

Indeed but this has nothing to do with history or tradition. MANY of our founders were non believers or agnostics. They specifically stated in 1st amendment that no government endorsed religion.

Well this is enforced atheism, so someone's religion IS being forced on everyone else.

Atheism is not a religion, but a lack of one.

Atheism is a belief system, an active disbelief in a higher power or deity. Agnosticism is closer to an actual "lack of religion".

As an atheist, I disagree. You are telling us what we believe in. As far as religion is concerned, we do not believe.

And that is a belief structure. And I am telling you my view on the situation, nothing more.

When you try to sterilize the commons of all religious professions and symbols, you are trying to impose your belief structure on the rest of us. That is what religious people see, and its why some people hate your guts.

 

[martybegan]

http://www.indystar.com/story/news/...n-removes-cross-town-christmas-tree/95347796/

VICTORY! How many times we have to go over this. GOVERNMENT in any form may NOT endorse a religion including putting up a religious symbol.

Keep going for victories like this, and you will keep losing at the ballot box.

Lol I voted for Trump.

Very sad that some people are so hateful. I'll say a prayer for you. Bye.

Nothing hateful about following the law and not wanting others religion jammed down our throats. I don't push my religion on anyone I expect the same

There are many who hate this country's history and traditions.

Indeed but this has nothing to do with history or tradition. MANY of our founders were non believers or agnostics. They specifically stated in 1st amendment that no government endorsed religion.

Well this is enforced atheism, so someone's religion IS being forced on everyone else.

Lol no its not.

There are many who hate this country's history and traditions.

Traditions are wonderful......(some of them)....but why should government (our taxes) pay for religious ones?

So if the people of the town paid for the cross, and then put it up there on their own, you would be OK with it?

Nope. Because the Tree is 1. Bought by the city 2. On CITY property which means its STILL something taxpayers pay for. People want a cross then put it on THEIR trees in their homes and put them in your businesses windows etc.

Then why is the tree acceptable to you and supposed defenders of the "wall"

Because the tree is NOT a religious symbol. Its just a tree.

Really? Tell that to some druid.

 

[NoNukes]

Nothing hateful about following the law and not wanting others religion jammed down our throats. I don't push my religion on anyone I expect the same
Indeed but this has nothing to do with history or tradition. MANY of our founders were non believers or agnostics. They specifically stated in 1st amendment that no government endorsed religion.

Well this is enforced atheism, so someone's religion IS being forced on everyone else.

Atheism is not a religion, but a lack of one.

Atheism is a belief system, an active disbelief in a higher power or deity. Agnosticism is closer to an actual "lack of religion".

As an atheist, I disagree. You are telling us what we believe in. As far as religion is concerned, we do not believe.

And that is a belief structure. And I am telling you my view on the situation, nothing more.

When you try to sterilize the commons of all religious professions and symbols, you are trying to impose your belief structure on the rest of us. That is what religious people see, and its why some people hate your guts.

I am an atheist, and I do not do this. To each his own is what I believe.

 

[Skull Pilot]

Very sad that some people are so hateful. I'll say a prayer for you. Bye.

Nothing hateful about following the law and not wanting others religion jammed down our throats. I don't push my religion on anyone I expect the same

There are many who hate this country's history and traditions.

Indeed but this has nothing to do with history or tradition. MANY of our founders were non believers or agnostics. They specifically stated in 1st amendment that no government endorsed religion.

Well this is enforced atheism, so someone's religion IS being forced on everyone else.

Atheism is not a religion, but a lack of one.

Atheism is a belief system, an active disbelief in a higher power or deity. Agnosticism is closer to an actual "lack of religion".

As an atheist, I disagree. You are telling us what we believe in. As far as religion is concerned, we do not believe.

I like to say I am an agnostic with atheistic leanings because there is not sufficient evidence to prove or disprove the existence of a supreme being of any kind

My question is why do most atheists find a religious symbol offensive if you do not believe ?

IMO a cross or a menorah or any other religious symbol is about as offensive as Mickey Mouse or Bugs Bunny because I don't believe those characters are real

 

[martybegan]

Agnosticism is closer to an actual "lack of religion".

Yup.

I'm a comfy agnostic, and I'm also perfectly comfy with the Christian traditions that have been a part of this country since its beginning.

The two conditions can exist in the same space, as long as one is not a narcissistic ideologue.
.

I have the same view on menorah displays that are all over the place in NY. My first thought isn't "WHY ISN'T THERE A CROSS THERE", it's "hey, it's a menorah"

 

[JakeStarkey]

There are many who hate this country's history and traditions.

Traditions are wonderful......(some of them)....but why should government (our taxes) pay for religious ones?

So if the people of the town paid for the cross, and then put it up there on their own, you would be OK with it?

Sure...on private land...as is done every year thru out the US.....sure.

Well there's that added condition I knew you would go for.

How is displaying something religious on public ground an endorsement of a religion?

So people should cower in a closet out of sight of those poor poor fragile atheists when they want to pray or worship?

The courts say it is a public endorsement, so your opinion does not count except for you.

 

[martybegan]

Well this is enforced atheism, so someone's religion IS being forced on everyone else.

Atheism is not a religion, but a lack of one.

Atheism is a belief system, an active disbelief in a higher power or deity. Agnosticism is closer to an actual "lack of religion".

As an atheist, I disagree. You are telling us what we believe in. As far as religion is concerned, we do not believe.

And that is a belief structure. And I am telling you my view on the situation, nothing more.

When you try to sterilize the commons of all religious professions and symbols, you are trying to impose your belief structure on the rest of us. That is what religious people see, and its why some people hate your guts.

I am an atheist, and I do not do this. To each his own is what I believe.

Well some of your fellow travelers are not so accommodating.

 

[martybegan]

There are many who hate this country's history and traditions.

Traditions are wonderful......(some of them)....but why should government (our taxes) pay for religious ones?

So if the people of the town paid for the cross, and then put it up there on their own, you would be OK with it?

Sure...on private land...as is done every year thru out the US.....sure.

Well there's that added condition I knew you would go for.

How is displaying something religious on public ground an endorsement of a religion?

So people should cower in a closet out of sight of those poor poor fragile atheists when they want to pray or worship?

The courts say it is a public endorsement, so your opinion does not count except for you.

Back to appeal to authority. Again, how does a cross on a tree establish religion? Do you now have to pay a tithe? Do you have to cross yourself every time you go by?

 

[NoNukes]

Nothing hateful about following the law and not wanting others religion jammed down our throats. I don't push my religion on anyone I expect the same
Indeed but this has nothing to do with history or tradition. MANY of our founders were non believers or agnostics. They specifically stated in 1st amendment that no government endorsed religion.

Well this is enforced atheism, so someone's religion IS being forced on everyone else.

Atheism is not a religion, but a lack of one.

Atheism is a belief system, an active disbelief in a higher power or deity. Agnosticism is closer to an actual "lack of religion".

As an atheist, I disagree. You are telling us what we believe in. As far as religion is concerned, we do not believe.

I like to say I am an agnostic with atheistic leanings because there is not sufficient evidence to prove or disprove the existence of a supreme being of any kind

My question is why do most atheists find a religious symbol offensive is you do not believe ?

IMO a cross or a menorah or any other religious symbol is about as offensive as Mickey Mouse or Bugs Bunny because I don't believe those characters are real

That is what I have been saying. Atheists I know do not feel this way.

 

[NoNukes]

Atheism is not a religion, but a lack of one.

Atheism is a belief system, an active disbelief in a higher power or deity. Agnosticism is closer to an actual "lack of religion".

As an atheist, I disagree. You are telling us what we believe in. As far as religion is concerned, we do not believe.

And that is a belief structure. And I am telling you my view on the situation, nothing more.

When you try to sterilize the commons of all religious professions and symbols, you are trying to impose your belief structure on the rest of us. That is what religious people see, and its why some people hate your guts.

I am an atheist, and I do not do this. To each his own is what I believe.

Well some of your fellow travelers are not so accommodating.

Fuck em.

 

[WillowTree]

Nothing hateful about following the law and not wanting others religion jammed down our throats. I don't push my religion on anyone I expect the same
Indeed but this has nothing to do with history or tradition. MANY of our founders were non believers or agnostics. They specifically stated in 1st amendment that no government endorsed religion.

Well this is enforced atheism, so someone's religion IS being forced on everyone else.

Atheism is not a religion, but a lack of one.

Atheism is a belief system, an active disbelief in a higher power or deity. Agnosticism is closer to an actual "lack of religion".

As an atheist, I disagree. You are telling us what we believe in. As far as religion is concerned, we do not believe.

I like to say I am an agnostic with atheistic leanings because there is not sufficient evidence to prove or disprove the existence of a supreme being of any kind

My question is why do most atheists find a religious symbol offensive if you do not believe ?

IMO a cross or a menorah or any other religious symbol is about as offensive as Mickey Mouse or Bugs Bunny because I don't believe those characters are real

They do it to be assholes and for no other reason.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Traditions are wonderful......(some of them)....but why should government (our taxes) pay for religious ones?

So if the people of the town paid for the cross, and then put it up there on their own, you would be OK with it?

Sure...on private land...as is done every year thru out the US.....sure.

Well there's that added condition I knew you would go for.

How is displaying something religious on public ground an endorsement of a religion?

So people should cower in a closet out of sight of those poor poor fragile atheists when they want to pray or worship?

The courts say it is a public endorsement, so your opinion does not count except for you.

Back to appeal to authority. Again, how does a cross on a tree establish religion? Do you now have to pay a tithe? Do you have to cross yourself every time you go by?

It is authority, not an appeal. It is fact, even if you don't like it.

 

[bodecea]

Nothing hateful about following the law and not wanting others religion jammed down our throats. I don't push my religion on anyone I expect the same
Indeed but this has nothing to do with history or tradition. MANY of our founders were non believers or agnostics. They specifically stated in 1st amendment that no government endorsed religion.

Well this is enforced atheism, so someone's religion IS being forced on everyone else.

Why is it "enforced atheism"?

if endorsement is understood by you to mean any acknowledgement of religion, government would have to be hostile to religion, rooting out any display on public land, including streets and sidewalks. That's enforced atheism.

Nope...not at all.

then how is a cross on top of a tree (another religious symbol) endorsement?

A cross on top of a tree? Give an example.

 

[Preacher]

http://www.indystar.com/story/news/...n-removes-cross-town-christmas-tree/95347796/

VICTORY! How many times we have to go over this. GOVERNMENT in any form may NOT endorse a religion including putting up a religious symbol.

actually the first amendment states government shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion.

If the town didn't pass a law about displaying a cross then the first amendment was not violated

Cross is an OBVIOUS christian symbol....can't play ignorant on this.

It's sad that some think that was some endorsement of religion. And of course the ACLU was in on this scam.

christian cross on a christmas tree the TOWN that ALL residents pay taxes to. Yep endorsement of religion but government entity.

Sad. We always managed to have crosses and Christmas without acrimony. Atheists are hateful people.

Stop pushing religion on people won't be a problem.

 

[martybegan]

So if the people of the town paid for the cross, and then put it up there on their own, you would be OK with it?

Sure...on private land...as is done every year thru out the US.....sure.

Well there's that added condition I knew you would go for.

How is displaying something religious on public ground an endorsement of a religion?

So people should cower in a closet out of sight of those poor poor fragile atheists when they want to pray or worship?

The courts say it is a public endorsement, so your opinion does not count except for you.

Back to appeal to authority. Again, how does a cross on a tree establish religion? Do you now have to pay a tithe? Do you have to cross yourself every time you go by?

It is authority, not an appeal. It is fact, even if you don't like it.

Your view is "because some court said it's so, it's so". That is appeal to authority, you are not explaining your position beyond someone in power saying "it is so"

 

[martybegan]

Well this is enforced atheism, so someone's religion IS being forced on everyone else.

Why is it "enforced atheism"?

if endorsement is understood by you to mean any acknowledgement of religion, government would have to be hostile to religion, rooting out any display on public land, including streets and sidewalks. That's enforced atheism.

Nope...not at all.

then how is a cross on top of a tree (another religious symbol) endorsement?

A cross on top of a tree? Give an example.

This thread is the example. How is a cross on top of a tree on public land an endorsement of religion?

 

[bodecea]

A good rule of thumb....if you don't want your tax dollars to pay for a symbol of some other religion like, let's say, Islam....then don't do it for Christianity.....or Judaism....except on private property.

 

[The Breeze]

If a cross is prominent on public property at this time of year, then, yes, that is forwarding the cause of religion.

Merry Christmas you godless heathen.

And a Happy Holidays to you too.

Same to you.

 

[martybegan]

A good rule of thumb....if you don't want your tax dollars to pay for a symbol of some other religion like, let's say, Islam....then don't do it for Christianity.....or Judaism....except on private property.

So even a nativity scene, paid for by private funds in a common square, verboten right?

Stop running to tax money when you know your position isn't reliant on it.