Zone1 Do most Jews believe they killed Jesus?

[hobelim]

What’s the “Jewish Stance”?

 

[hobelim]

What does the law say about committing adultery? What about planning deception?

The prophets accused the nation of committing adultery. Obviously that had nothing to do with sex. And according to scripture planned deception is an honorable tactic in a war against evil.

Even "Thou shalt not murder" has nothing to do with homicide if you believe what Jesus taught when he said "Satan was a murderer from the beginning", (even though Satan didn't literally kill anyone). What Satan did was beguile Adam and Eve into defying the command of God which is murder in the eyes of God since death, a curse, is the consequence....not biological death.

In this light every evangelist, priest, minister, or preacher who beguiles people into setting aside the law and worshipping a trinity, a Jewish man, or a matzo, is a serial murderer in the eyes of God.

 

[ding]

You heard it wrong. Gd can only forgive sins - I prefer “wrongdoing” - when it it against Gd. If the wrongdoing was against a person, then you must seek that person’s forgiveness.

Aren't all sins sins against three entities; the one wronged, the one doing the wrong and God?

But putting that aside Jesus was teaching that he could forgive sins. That was the blaspheme he was executed for.

 

[BreezeWood]

Aren't all sins sins against three entities; the one wronged, the one doing the wrong and God?

But putting that aside Jesus was teaching that he could forgive sins. That was the blaspheme he was executed for.

only in the corrupt 4th century c bible would there be such a notion - as the roman emperor - what you claim never happened.

you are just a tool used by the jews and their roman alliance in disdain against self determination to free their spirit for admission to the everlasting - themselves.

there never has been a messiah nor ever will be.

 

[Indeependent]

What does the law say about committing adultery? What about planning deception?

Every Jewish man who goes to war gives his wife a Bill of Divorce.
When Natan, the prophet casticized David, David admitted he committed a transgression of passion, called a Chate in Hebrew.
The prophet did not accuse David of adultery.

 

[hobelim]

But putting that aside Jesus was teaching that he could forgive sins.

He was teaching the only right way to understand the figurative language and comply with the hidden subjects of the law which leads to the fulfillment of the promise of eternal life for doing so.

Jesus made it clear with every healing that it was that person's faith which healed them, their faith demonstrated by them acting on his teaching and their faith in reaching out to the mercy of God to wipe away the guilt of their sin and to heal them from its terrifying and deeply disturbing effects.

Those who did not act on his teaching were not forgiven because even after receiving knowledge of the truth they still made evil a deliberate choice.

 

[Meriweather]

Every Jewish man who goes to war gives his wife a Bill of Divorce.

If Uriah and Bathsheba were divorced, how could David order Uriah to home to have sex with his wife he apparently didn't have? Might this explain why Uriah wouldn't sleep with his former wife? If Bathsheba was divorced (unmarried) why did it matter if she was pregnant by another man?

 

[Indeependent]

If Uriah and Bathsheba were divorced, how could David order Uriah to home to have sex with his wife he apparently didn't have? Might this explain why Uriah wouldn't sleep with his former wife? If Bathsheba was divorced (unmarried) why did it matter if she was pregnant by another man?

A Bill of Divorce, as specified by the Torah, can be conditional upon a man returning from a hazardous situation.
When he was at war, the Bill of Divorce was in force.
When he returned, the Bill of Divorce was revoked.
What David and Beth Sheva did was a rarity or Shmuel would not have written it down.
God is not a fool.

 

[hobelim]

The same thing as the other Christians were guilty of... being Christian.

No, unlike you, they were guilty of waking up the hypnotized. Very inconvenient for those who feed on rubes and deceive the public. Losing control of their possessions pissed them off to no end.

 

[irosie91]

It means in the Jewish faith, man can't forgive sins only God can. Or did I hear that wrong?

you got it wrong----a man can forgive a sin committed against HIM. As to sins not involving a
second party-----charity and repentance sorta stuff

 

[irosie91]

The same thing as the other Christians were guilty of... being Christian.

oh----was that written into Roman law?

 

[irosie91]

Aren't all sins sins against three entities; the one wronged, the one doing the wrong and God?

But putting that aside Jesus was teaching that he could forgive sins. That was the blaspheme he was executed for.

whose law is that?

 

[Meriweather]

A Bill of Divorce, as specified by the Torah, can be conditional upon a man returning from a hazardous situation.

The Bill of Divorce was apparently conditional...if a man died or was missing in battle. Uriah was neither dead nor missing. If nothing was amiss, David would not have ordered Uriah home when Bathsheba said she was pregnant. When Uriah did not resume relations with Bathsheba, David ordered he be killed.

Yes, I am at least familiar with all the explanations absolving both David and Bathsheba, including the part where apparently David and Bathsheba were, from the sixth day of creation, destined to be married.

 

[buttercup]

I don't want to stir up a hornet's nest of controversy here, and this should probably go on a thread of its own... but it seems that one of the main differences between Judaism and Christianity is how we view the law. From a Christian perspective, adherence to the law in and of itself does not save anyone. Why, because NO ONE can obey God's law perfectly, it is impossible for us imperfect humans to always act perfectly... and of course history has shown that time and time again.

The law is like a mirror that shows people their sin, and their need for redemption / forgiveness. To sum it up, we are saved by God's grace, through faith, not by being a "good person"... because the bible says that no one is good.... and again, all we have to do is look around at the world to see that that's true. If we think we are always good, we are lying to ourselves.

Speaking of the law, this video is really good....I highly recommend watching it, especially those who have a different view on the law.

 

[buttercup]

Good book. It jump started my journey.

That's an excellent book, one of my favorites of all. He explains things SO well.

 

[Indeependent]

The Bill of Divorce was apparently conditional...if a man died or was missing in battle. Uriah was neither dead nor missing. If nothing was amiss, David would not have ordered Uriah home when Bathsheba said she was pregnant. When Uriah did not resume relations with Bathsheba, David ordered he be killed.

Yes, I am at least familiar with all the explanations absolving both David and Bathsheba, including the part where apparently David and Bathsheba were, from the sixth day of creation, destined to be married.

You're still refusing to get it...
The BOD was in force when Uriah went to war and that's when David and Beth Sheva did it.
Do you know who Uriah was?
By the way, no one was absolved as David never had a peaceful day in his life and Beth Sheva's children all rebelled against David.

 

[BreezeWood]

I don't want to stir up a hornet's nest of controversy here, and this should probably go on a thread of its own... but it seems that one of the main differences between Judaism and Christianity is how we view the law. From a Christian perspective, adherence to the law in and of itself does not save anyone. Why, because NO ONE can obey God's law perfectly, it is impossible for us imperfect humans to always act perfectly... and of course history has shown that time and time again.

The law is like a mirror that shows people their sin, and their need for redemption / forgiveness. To sum it up, we are saved by God's grace, through faith, not by being a "good person"... because the bible says that no one is good.... and again, all we have to do is look around at the world to see that that's true. If we think we are always good, we are lying to ourselves.

Speaking of the law, this video is really good....I highly recommend watching it, especially those who have a different view on the law.

because NO ONE can obey God's law perfectly, it is impossible for us imperfect humans to always act perfectly... and of course history has shown that time and time again.

perfection does not exist and can not be a law - purity is the law of the heavens, without sin as the means to free ones spirit and admission to the everlasting ...

curious how the christian reconciles the great flood or how their book does that post the manner of the conclusion to the 1st century events. their demand for a crucifixion.

 

[Meriweather]

You're still refusing to get it...
The BOD was in force when Uriah went to war and that's when David and Beth Sheva did it.

Please. The conditional bills of divorce were not permission for wives to have sex while their husbands were away. David and Bathsheba both knew what they were doing was wrong. Everyone else was of the same mind.

By the way, no one was absolved as David never had a peaceful day in his life and Beth Sheva's children all rebelled against David.

Even you acknowledge it was wrong otherwise you would be arguing there was nothing for which to absolve David and Bathsheba. Besides, David himself admitted he was in the wrong.

Do you know who Uriah was?

He was one of the elite soldiers under Joab the captain or commander--can't recall his exact title. Uriah worshiped God, followed the law, and he was loyal to both his fellow soldiers and to Joab. In fact, the reason he did not have sex with his wife as David commanded was because he did not wish to break the holiness which the others in his unit were following.

In this instance, who was the holy man? David or Uriah? If I recall correctly, Uriah means something like Flame of God or perhaps man of God? In any case, he lived up to his name.

 

[irosie91]

Please. The conditional bills of divorce were not permission for wives to have sex while their husbands were away. David and Bathsheba both knew what they were doing was wrong. Everyone else was of the same mind.


Even you acknowledge it was wrong otherwise you would be arguing there was nothing for which to absolve David and Bathsheba. Besides, David himself admitted he was in the wrong.


He was one of the elite soldiers under Joab the captain or commander--can't recall his exact title. Uriah worshiped God, followed the law, and he was loyal to both his fellow soldiers and to Joab. In fact, the reason he did not have sex with his wife as David commanded was because he did not wish to break the holiness which the others in his unit were following.

In this instance, who was the holy man? David or Uriah? If I recall correctly, Uriah means something like Flame of God or perhaps man of God? In any case, he lived up to his name.

right----David did something wrong----he was not PERFECT What is your
point?

 

[Meriweather]

What is your
point?

You already got it. David did something wrong.